B&H Closure

[PhilDernerJr]

As we all know, they also close Friday afternoon and all of Saturday for the Jewish sabbath. I've always heard the obvious comments of how much money the must miss out on while closed on Saturdays, of all days. But I can respect their dedication to their religion, and I am sure they rake in the dough on the other 5.5 days they are open.

Last week, B&H was closed all week due to religious observance. Well, not knowing that they were closed for the week, I went to B&H a little over a week ago and was disappointed to see they were closed.

I decided to go home and purchase it on the website instead. To get it quicker (it was a last minute gift), I paid extra for 2-4 day shipping.

So, I did this last Sunday. When I didn't get it all week, I got angry and when I went to track my shipping, only then did I see any warning that their ONLINE ORDERS WERE ALSO SHUT DOWN for the week.

I was very angry. I intently read everything on every page when purchasing the product and certainly saw nothing implying that this item wouldn't even be shipped for another week, much less received.

An honest question to try to learn, is there something in the Orthodox Jewish religion that prevents them from even MAKING money during observance? I would think they could hire non-Jewish people to at least run the WEBSITE while they are closed.

Either way, it annoyed me greatly, and the package was finally delivered today, just in time....kinda. I wasn't home, and I think my building's super signed for it...so I have to get it tomorrow when I get home from work.

*frustrated*

[adam613]

(I was once an Orthodox Jew, and have worked for two Orthodox Jewish companies.)

Like everything else in Judaism, it depends on who you ask. The people who own and run B&H are from a very very right-wing sect that lives upstate (in Rockland County). From what I understand, the guys in that community who can't cut it in yeshiva get sent to work at B&H.

While I don't know specifically what the rabbis of that sect hold with respect to B&H, there are a number of potential issues:

1) Most businesses owned by Orthodox Jews (excluding restaurants, which must close on the sabbath and holidays to be certified as kosher) can remain open on days when work is prohibited, assuming that all business activities on those days are conducted by non-Jews. But there are some who hold that an Jewish-owned business can not do any business, even when that business is conducted by non-Jews.

2) There are also those who hold that if a Jew buys something from a Jewish-owned business on the sabbath, the owners of the business are guilty of violating the sabbath. So, if B&H were open, and I went in and bought something, it would be their "sin" (Judaism doesn't really have a concept of sin like Christianity, but that's the closest English word), so they can't stay open, or even run their website in case a Jew orders something. I suspect this is their main issue, because no other Orthodox Jewish-owned business I know of closes their website. Most Orthodox Jews hold that if I want to go into a store on Saturday, that's between me and God.

3) The vast majority of B&H employees are hat-and-beard types, and a lot of the rest are Israeli. I'm not entirely sure they have enough non-Jewish employees to run the store or the website on the holidays.

It does say on their front page that they don't process orders when they are closed. But I don't think it says so on the order page. That, I'm not going to try to explain or defend, because it's stupid and irresponsible :P

[LGA777]

Before Digital, there was a few years when I was shooting news worthy slides at work at LGA and was getting many photos published in World Airline Fleet News, and some in Airliners and Airways. At the time I could drop off slides at B & H before noon and they would be ready for pick up the next morning with Kodak processing. So point of my story is I was at B & H typically 5-10 times a month for a while dropping off and picking up slides. I always made it a point to get copies of their Holiday Closeure callendar updates so I would not slep in to find a closed store on a Tuesday morning. So my advice is if you are planning a trip to B & H check their website first as they are closed a total of several weeks a year not counting the PM Friday and all day Saturday thing.

Regards

LGA777

[adam613]

(By the way, there are no more holiday closures until April 19.)

[kc2aqg]

I think Adam said it right, and it has been my experience as well: "It depends on who you ask". I'm not that familiar with the actual laws, but I can tell you that I know orthodox jews from different places and one of my friends who follows the orthodox laws very closely will not do business or purchase anything on Shabbat. When we were in Florida for a school trip several years ago, I held his wallet and bought anything he needed/wanted throughout Shabbat.

So Phil, to confirm for you, there definitely exists some jewish law(s) that restrict the performance of business on Shabbat and holidays, but I don't know more details on it. Kind of a bummer that the online store is down for the holidays as well, you would think that at least the warehousing functions could/would be run by non-jews...

[Matt Molnar]

Usually a warning window pops up on their homepage if you visit during a religious closure.

[henryp]

(I was once an Orthodox Jew, and have worked for two Orthodox Jewish companies.)

Like everything else in Judaism, it depends on who you ask. The people who own and run B&H are from a very very right-wing sect that lives upstate (in Rockland County). From what I understand, the guys in that community who can't cut it in yeshiva get sent to work at B&H.

The owner of B&H is a conservative (in lifestyle -- I make no statement one way or the other about his politics) orthodox Hasidic gentleman who happens to reside in Brooklyn. There are Hasidic enclaves in both Brooklyn and Rockland county. Saying that our Hasidic employees are those unable to "cut it in yeshiva," is gratuitously insulting. We have a diverse staff and many of our Hasidic employees are remarkably bright, intelligent, multi-lingual people with advanced degrees and a great deal of business acumen who elected to pursue careers in business. If every Hasidic boy grew up to be a rabbi, there'd be nothing else and each family's economic base would crumble.

(While I don't know specifically what the rabbis of that sect hold with respect to B&H, there are a number of potential issues:

1) Most businesses owned by Orthodox Jews (excluding restaurants, which must close on the sabbath and holidays to be certified as kosher) can remain open on days when work is prohibited, assuming that all business activities on those days are conducted by non-Jews. But there are some who hold that an Jewish-owned business can not do any business, even when that business is conducted by non-Jews.

This is incorrect. I am not, nor have I ever been orthodox or Hasidic but it has been explained to me that on Sabbath and other days requiring Sabbath-like observance no work may be done by the owner or those under his control. This means no commerce. Once it meant no work for the family head and his family and servants, etc. Now it means the owner's company and its employees.

2) There are also those who hold that if a Jew buys something from a Jewish-owned business on the sabbath, the owners of the business are guilty of violating the sabbath. So, if B&H were open, and I went in and bought something, it would be their "sin" (Judaism doesn't really have a concept of sin like Christianity, but that's the closest English word), so they can't stay open, or even run their website in case a Jew orders something. I suspect this is their main issue, because no other Orthodox Jewish-owned business I know of closes their website. Most Orthodox Jews hold that if I want to go into a store on Saturday, that's between me and God.

It's been explained to me that having the web site close for order-taking on Sabbath is our owner's preference, and not necessarily a rabbinic dictate. He's the owner and if it's his preference, that is that.

3) The vast majority of B&H employees are hat-and-beard types, and a lot of the rest are Israeli. I'm not entirely sure they have enough non-Jewish employees to run the store or the website on the holidays.

The "vast majority?" nonsense. We have 1500+ employees and quite a few are orthodox or Hasidic Jews, but certainly not all and the "vast majority" is now ancient. Perhaps 10 years ago this was true, but times have changed. I understand that walking into our retail store our Hasidic employees are quite visible due to sartorial and tonsorial distinctions but if you look around you'll see plenty of people wearing green (sales) or blue (supervisor) or burgundy (support) employee vests.

It does say on their front page that they don't process orders when they are closed. But I don't think it says so on the order page. That, I'm not going to try to explain or defend, because it's stupid and irresponsible :P

The information was peppered throughout the order-taking process and made available to customers placing web orders several times before the final click-here-to-submit page. We make EVERY effort to ensure customers are not disappointed when ordering here during a hiatus.

[henryp]

An honest question to try to learn, is there something in the Orthodox Jewish religion that prevents them from even MAKING money during observance? I would think they could hire non-Jewish people to at least run the WEBSITE while they are closed.

I am very sorry for your frustration. We make every effort to ensure site visitors are aware of our holidays both before and during and employ a variety of website notices which, I am told do not require pop-ups or java or javascript to ensure they're visible to every visitor no matter how his/her individual browser is configured.

Jewish law is often a matter of interpretation. I am neither orthodox nor Hasidic but my understanding is that the owner's enterprise should not engage in commerce during Sabbath and other days requiring Sabbath-like observance. That includes him and his employees. Nevertheless, we regret any inconvenience.

[Idlewild]

Old Testament law in the Four Books says that (and I'm paraphrasing) "No one through out Israel or a home in Israel shall do a stoke of work. Not even your household slaves or the alien that resides. No work may be done." Since the website is directly linked to their store it counts as a whole. So far only King David and El Al (the cargo division at least) have gotten away with breaking the Sabbath rule.

[Mateo]

Distilled to one sentence, you're not supposed to do anything that would cause you to have a competitive advantage over your neighbour. No work, no sewing, no ripping, no harvesting, no commerce, nothing of that ilk.

[Idlewild]

I thought it was because G-d took the 7th Day off. What you're stating is true but is already mentioned and a matter of course sans Sabbath. Ex: Returning a neighbor's ox, just weights, no interest loans, etc.,

[henryp]

Old Testament law in the Four Books...

When I was a lad there were five books --
* Genesis
* Exodus
* Leviticus
* Numbers
* Deuteronomy.

[emshighway]

So they take a few days off... They are still the best around and it is easier to get there on a Sunday when us Christians need an excuse.

[Idlewild]

Old Testament law in the Four Books...

When I was a lad there were five books --
* Genesis
* Exodus
* Leviticus
* Numbers
* Deuteronomy.

Ann Coulter narrowed it down to four. To make amends she wants to give us a shortcut too.

[Tom_Turner]

From what I understand, the guys in that community who can't cut it in yeshiva

"YOU GO TO B&H" ..... :D LOL...

just a joke...I read above where this is not true, so again this is not serious..

Indeed, on a serious note, it is absolutely great store.

Tom