Shuttle Enterprise to New York April 23rd, 2012

[fk6065]

The Enterprise is tentatively scheduled to come into New York on April 23rd, 2012. I am guessing it will be Kennedy. mark your calanders!

[wunaladreamin]

Source???

[fk6065]

Can't reveal the source right now but here is an interesting article about the plane that ferries the shuttles and it also mentions the flights in April.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/14/nasa-space-shuttle-carrying-jumbo-jet_n_1275893.html

[gonzalu]

This has been well documented before... I posted this link some time last year

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2011/08/endeavour-discovery-swap-places-new-retirement-dates-planned/

[NIKV69]

I ran into someone spotting awhile ago who is in the know and said the same thing that April 23rd is most likely the date it's arriving at JFK.

[megatop412]

hmm...sounds like the last chance to get photos of the shuttle/747 combo

[steve1840]

I suddenly see myself getting ill enough to stay home from work that day..... :tongue:

[Derf]

Cough!

[wunaladreamin]

I'm not trying to be a tool, I only asked for the sauce because as I understand it according to the link Manny posted, the date was to be April 17th. I'm only looking to be positive about the date as I'm more than likely bringing a crowd with me to JFK on whichever day.

Personally, I can't ****ing wait!

[fk6065]

April 17th is the date for Discovery to be shuttled to Dulles in DC for the Air & Space Museum. Then on April 19th it will be transfered to the Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Center in Chantilly, VA

[fk6065]

OK now who wants to make a road trip to DC for Discovery, and then back to NYC for Enterprise????

[NIKV69]

Source???

Fox 5 news just announced it will arrive the 23rd. Yes, my day off. Now we just need it to land Runway 4R/22L early morning with perfect light! Then for the NASA 747 to depart 31L while light still good!

[Strike]

Hey all,
(I’m not sure if I should have started a new topic)

I am new here, but I am not new to spotting. I have been lurking for a little while. I have seen the photography of many of you on Airliners and JetPhotos, and I am really impressed! I got my first taste of NYC spotting on March 5 when I came to Newark for the 787, spotted from P6. I regularly spot at PNE and PHL. I live under final approach at PNE.

So I heard somewhere that the Enterprise will be riding atop a SCA into JFK on 4/23, and then I saw it here. I was wondering who is planning to spot the Enterprise, and if I could tag along with some of you guys. I have my own transportation, so all I am asking is to tag along to whatever location you guys are at. From the spotting guide on this website, and my own Google Earth research, I see that JFK spotting is a bit more difficult (logistically, runways etc.) than Newark, La Guardia, PHL or PNE spotting. I know that I would be in good hands with experienced NYC spotters like all of you.

After the SCA/Enterprise, my priorities for the day would be- Emirates A380, El Al 747, Korean A380, KLM 777, Singapore A380, Air France A380. High priority on the first 3. But the Shuttle is the main mission, of course!

Thank you everybody,
and good luck in your spotting adventures in the meantime!

[moose135]

Strike, I think just about all of us will be out for this one. I started a new job last month, and the first thing I told the boss was I needed the day off when the Shuttle arrived. Keep an eye on the board, I'm sure we'll be discussing particulars as the time gets close.

[yankees368]

Unless I have a job interview (keep dreaming), I will be out there no matter the weather or light situation. JFK has always been a shuttle alternate landing, just never thought I would see it.

[Gerard]

I ran into someone spotting awhile ago who is in the know and said the same thing that April 23rd is most likely the date it's arriving at JFK.

Damn I'm going to be up in Syracuse that day!! I wonder if they will do a FlyBy around Manhattan before landing at JFK. That woud be cool.

[hiss srq]

I was going to be coming back from either SXM or PUJ that day but it looks like I will be back a day early. Ideally for me, it would be 31R just so I could literaly watch it land from my office but I guess I am going to have to drive out to the side of the runway. :p Cannot wait!~

[njgtr82]

Hey guys wanted to pass on the plan for the shuttle. As of right now it will be starting off at the VZ north on the Hudson at 1500 feet for photos over the Statue then to the GWB making a 180 and either going to JFK for a low approach on 31L or making a right turn at the Statue to EWR for a low approach. If it does EWR first it it will then turn North over TEB then direct to LGA for a pass. I believe it will be at 1500' over both TEB and LGA. Then over to JFK. If they go to JFK after the run up the river it will do the low approach to 31L then direct EWR, then TEB, then LGA then to 31L for full stop. Either way JFK will get a low approach then the landing. I'm just wondering what altitude they will do the low approach at EWR at, I'm waiting to hear! Hope that wasn't too confusing.

Bill

[threeholerglory]

Bill you speak in confusing tongues that only ATC can understand. I plan to be out....this should be epic!!!

[megatop412]

OK, so, can I take all that to mean no last minute BS switch to 22L? I don't think I'm the only one here that would be horrified at a last minute switcheroo. Do you know how many car accidents would happen between Far Rockaway and the Mounds?

As I heard one of us say recently, "Kennedy Tower likes to f- you in the a-" Sorry, that's the cleanest I can make that

[NickPeterman]

Hopefully that 31L doesn't wind up becoming 13R. Down here at IAD we are praying for 1R, but if I am gonna be there, it will somehow become 19L. The Tower at IAD loves to do that to me :)

[yankees368]

I would imagine they would want the longest possible runway available, and will treat this arrival much like AF1 where it gets whatever runway it wants. At least I hope so.

[Chris S]

Hopefully the low approach will be similiar to one they did down in Texas 3 years ago in this video.:cool:


http://youtu.be/V10Lqjuv4V0

[gonzalu]

What a beast... anyway, do we have expected times to land? At JFK, it will be 31L/13R and I am betting on 31L only because it is a nice easy VFR off the water right in.. no turns, no landmarks etc.

In the morning, it will SUCK A$$ in the afternoon it can be epic...

...and how the heck am I going to get from LGA to EWR to TEB to Battery Park and to JFK in time for each? :mad:

[yankees368]

...and how the heck am I going to get from LGA to EWR to TEB to Battery Park and to JFK in time for each? :mad:

If we all pool our life savings, maybe we can rent a helicopter for the day and follow it?

[megatop412]

we're still several weeks away on this and I'm already pumped as hell! Shuttle baby, shuttle!!!

[Gerard]

If we all pool our life savings, maybe we can rent a helicopter for the day and follow it?

LOL my thinking exactly. Or maybe hitch a ride in a Newscopter!!

[Speedbird1]

I am retired and could see this but I have no car so I wouild need an approximate arrival time and runway. I saw the Enterprise years ago aboard a B747 flying over NYC enroute to the Paris Air Show but I was at work and had no camera.It was awesome! My guess is she would arrive on Rwy 31L for 2 reasons: longest runway and close enough to be shipped on a barge to Intrepid. I might hire a car to take me to a viewing location as I can't find anybody here in Brooklyn willing to take me. Please let us know the arrival information. In any case, I'll be viewing when she sails-up the Hudson.

[Speedbird1]

I can empathize. How often I waited by Rwy 22L to see the Concorde land only to get it switched at the last minute to land on Rwy 22R. It also happened several times when it was switched to land on Rwy 13R while I was sitting by Rwy 13L. Since I came by car service, I had no way to change my location. Planespotting is great but is so aggravating at times. Taking photos at the terminals is best, but since 9-11, we get chased-away!

[megatop412]

LOL my thinking exactly. Or maybe hitch a ride in a Newscopter!!

Or, maybe string a couple Taco Copters together and hang a little seat from it

I just can't allow the Taco Copter idea to die :tongue:

[ch2tdriver]

Yesterday over DC NASA T-38's did a dry run of the Fly-by route at 1500'.

http://www.space.com/15176-nasa-t38-jets-washington-flyover-photos.html

I'm wondering if the same will happen for the NYC run?

Pete.

[gonzalu]

Oooohhh... T38's in NASA colors over NYC? Nice!

[yankees368]

mmmmmm....tacocopter. lol

[Chris S]

Here's a link to the Intrepid's website showing a conceptual rendering of how Space Shuttle
Enterprise will be displayed on Intrepid’s flight deck inside a "bubble", beginning Summer 2012.
http://www.intrepidmuseum.org/shuttle/media.html

[yankees368]

Oh man, just seeing the pictures of the shuttle on that 747 is making me giddy already.

[Chris S]

I'm wondering if the same will happen for the NYC run?

Pete.

Usually at least one of NASA's T-38 Talons is used as the chase plane whenever NASA's SCA 747
is transporting the Space Shuttle inorder to ensure safety and the latest weather observations.

[megatop412]

"All dates and events are subject to change due to weather and operational delays."+ typical April weather=

>gulp<

[moose135]

"All dates and events are subject to change due to weather and operational delays."+ typical April weather=

>gulp<
I told the boss I needed the day off (and she agreed it wasn't something to miss) but I made sure she knew the schedule would be "flexible".

[gonzalu]

I am prepared to take the month off if I had to :tongue:

[Joe]

I have debated keeping my boys home from school that day as it is something that they would never have the chance top see again. Amazingly, the ex didn't shoot it down. We'll see how it plays out, I for one will not miss the event, I have even debated going to DC to see the other shuttle come in as well.

[gonzalu]

Joe, debate no more... I am going to be in Washington D.C. for the inbound just because you never know. As you said... once in a lifetime and never again!

[Chris S]

Speaking of DC, I heard they were going to circle Discovery around DC before they land at Dulles.
I was curious if anyone in the DC area has heard any other specific info about the flight plan yet ?

[Joe]

Joe, debate no more... I am going to be in Washington D.C. for the inbound just because you never know. As you said... once in a lifetime and never again!

Are you flying in or driving in? And what's your schedule? I ask because if you are driving, and there are others interested, even if they are not, maybe a couple of us could carpool to split the driving time and expenses. I can fit up to seven in my Pathfinder.

[Speedbird1]

All this talk about the Enterprise is great but what about all those historic aircraft already on the Intrepid Flight Deck? Where will they go? To be honest, they are more historic than a prototype Orbiter with no engines which never even went into Space. Rumor has it that we might lose the Concorde here in NYC to make room on the pier for the other aircraft. That would be a shame as NYC had at least 4 regular Concorde flights daily for over 2 decades. If we lose "Alpha-Delta" the closest Concorde would be in Chantilly Virginia! I understand that the agreement with British Airways expires in 2013 and the aircraft could be removed. That would break my heart! The Intrepid broke their promise to build a shelter for its Concorde so British Airways could remove the beloved aircraft.

[PhilDernerJr]

Ironically, I leave to Orlando on April 17th, and I'll be down there for 5 weeks...gonna miss it all. I'm hoping for steady t-storms in NYC that whole time. :)

[steve1840]

Ironically, I leave to Orlando on April 17th, and I'll be down there for 5 weeks...gonna miss it all. I'm hoping for steady t-storms in NYC that whole time. :)

I hope that's your way of ensuring 5 straight weeks of nothing but susnshine! haha

[JDANDO]

Thinking about heading out for the day!

Delta has a couple of open seats.

Can the locals help out a couple of out-of-towners?


jeremy in Minnesota

[gonzalu]

Jeremy, I just sent you a PM. Feel free to hang out with me on Monday... if there are no seats available in my ride, I am certain one of the other locals could lend you a seat :P

[megatop412]

Does anybody on this board have an educated guess on what could potentially cause a change in the day? I know that weather can affect this, but exactly how bad would the weather have to get before they postponed? Many a travelers plan to witness a launch was foiled sometimes at the last minute. Will they still fly if it's raining, even if not a steady downpour? Would winds like we had on Monday cause it to be postponed? Or are we talking about only weather that cancels regular pax flights having the potential to screw things up.

thanks in advance people

and Jeremy if I come to NY instead of going to Dulles you guys are more than welcome to ride around with me- I would just have to leave town by about 4-5 to get back to Philly

[JDANDO]

Tickets are booked! Looking forward to seeing all the NYCA'er!!!!!

[NYC787]

Any information on fly bys around Manhattan by the 747/Enterprise stack?

[gonzalu]

There has been some info on it flying up the Hudson river to GWB and by Statue of Liberty etc. Just too bad they don't give us time to shoot that and make it to JFK for the landing :P

[yankees368]

Tickets are booked! Looking forward to seeing all the NYCA'er!!!!!

See you in NY!

[steve1840]

Tickets are booked! Looking forward to seeing all the NYCA'er!!!!!

I hope you're packing some good weather to bring with you :tongue: Looking forward to meeting you Jeremy.

[Speedbird1]

The only motion picture I can think of showing a Shuttle piggy-backed aboard a NASA B747 is "Moonraker". As an enthusiast, it was very upsetting to see the B747 destroyed like that. Fortunately, Enterprise has no engines. The Bond film was about a terrorist who was stealing our Shuttle fleet so he could rule the world!

[megatop412]

I remember that Bond scene and being confused as to why the Shuttle was carrying fuel while being transported

[moose135]

I remember that Bond scene and being confused as to why the Shuttle was carrying fuel while being transported
A plot contrivance...

[NickPeterman]

The SCA and Shuttle do not fly in rain anywhere along their route. So you not only need good Weather in NYC, you need it everywhere from DC up. I'd kill to be up there with y'all, but the logistical nightmare of getting around NYC when I can't legally rent a car (not 21) poses too many issues

[gonzalu]

I think given that these are no longer "operational" shuttles, they may relax the rules a bit.

[moose135]

I think given that these are no longer "operational" shuttles, they may relax the rules a bit.
From what I was reading elsewhere, there are two issues with flying in the rain. The part you always hear about is rain damage to the tiles, and while that wouldn't be an issue for flying the shuttle again, it will could result in repairs being needed before it is put on display. The other issue, more important here, is that the tiles absorb water, and could cause issues with weight and CG on the SCA/Shuttle combo.

[Perriwen]

From what I was reading elsewhere, there are two issues with flying in the rain. The part you always hear about is rain damage to the tiles, and while that wouldn't be an issue for flying the shuttle again, it will could result in repairs being needed before it is put on display. The other issue, more important here, is that the tiles absorb water, and could cause issues with weight and CG on the SCA/Shuttle combo.

Given that Enterprise was merely a glider and never an operational spacecraft (and has been in a museum for years), would it even have those tiles in the first place?

[NickPeterman]

After Columbia's loss,they actually harvested part of the leading edge of Enterprise's wing for testing because it apparent does have all the accoutrements on the exterior. I guess you want your test article to be as realistic as possible.

[moose135]

It does have tiles, and you can see where they removed a section of the wing leading edge during the Columbia investigation.

http://www.moose135photography.com/Travel/Air-Space-Museum/Shuttle001/85862208_nFdNR-XL-2.jpg

[JDANDO]

I am not a rocket scientist, but I will be staying at a Holiday Inn during my visit....

I would think there was a grave concern that the ceramic tile is a porous material and rain/water would be absorbed into the tile structure. This would be come a problem as the shuttle enters space and the water either freezes, expanding and cracking the tiles; or the water boils off (again expansion) in the absence of any atmospheric pressure and could cause steam pops/fractures to the tiles.

I am hoping for sunny skies and warm temps so we do not have to worry about any of this on the 23rd!

[ch2tdriver]

Enterprise does not have a genuine TPS (silica tiles). The tiles are foam replicas. When Enterprise was rolled out for the ALT's the TPS was still being perfected, nor was it required for the ALT's. Had NASA stuck to the original plan and refitted Enterprise for space flight, the TPS would have been added as well engines etc....

You may recall seing pics of Columbia in 1979 being flown from Palmdale to KSC with hundreds of tiles missing. They were having difficulty with the glues among other things with the TPS and needed to get Columbia to KSC ASAP. So they sent her unfinished and completed the job at KSC when they got the bugs worked out. But those photos is what gave the public the perception that the tiles would start to fly off the shuttle if one got loose.

[THX Express]

Hi and the best wishes from Berlin Germany!

I/we fly next friday for shuttle arrival to JFK. "strange" ;-)

I have some question, does anybody knows the time of arrival or the expected runway?

Cheers and thanks for the help

Andre Oferta

[Derf]

10:30AM arrival

[THX Express]

Thanks a lot!

[Derf]

........expected runway?.....
Andre Oferta

My guess would be...."THE LONG ONE" ;) -Fred

[moose135]

I have some question, does anybody knows the time of arrival or the expected runway?
Check out Reply #18 in this thread for some detailed information...

[THX Express]

Ohh, my fault :smile:

[THX Express]

I use www.suncalc.net to check the position of the sun and when they really use RWY31L the Shuttle/NASA 747 have the sunlight on the butt " in germany we use the word buttlight" :cool:

It is possible to catch the shuttle on the turn to RWY31L ???

Or any other ideas?
Which position you prefer??

I/we would like to have perfect light conditions when the sun is shining!

Thanks again

[JDANDO]

Hey guys wanted to pass on the plan for the shuttle. As of right now it will be starting off at the VZ north on the Hudson at 1500 feet for photos over the Statue then to the GWB making a 180 and either going to JFK for a low approach on 31L or making a right turn at the Statue to EWR for a low approach. If it does EWR first it it will then turn North over TEB then direct to LGA for a pass. I believe it will be at 1500' over both TEB and LGA. Then over to JFK. If they go to JFK after the run up the river it will do the low approach to 31L then direct EWR, then TEB, then LGA then to 31L for full stop. Either way JFK will get a low approach then the landing. I'm just wondering what altitude they will do the low approach at EWR at, I'm waiting to hear! Hope that wasn't too confusing.

Bill
Thanks Bill!


Since it is all about the logistics and the above post is very confusing for the out-town-guy. Will JFK be the best photo op? Sounds like the "butt-light" is not ideal for a 1030 arrival would LGA afford better photo ops? Either that or it is time to get a boat or "Taco-copter"?

[megatop412]

definitely Taco Copter

[wunaladreamin]

I can't ****ing wait guys! I'll deal with butt light for this because with all the great info Bill hooked us up with, it doesn't say which rwy at LGA she will make her approach at. Plus I want to be in a spot where I can get tire smoke on touchdown so Bayswater it will be for me.

[Mateo]

Ugh, I have a meeting Monday morning, but at 1500' over the Lady, I should be able to see it from my desk! I would, however, really, really, really like a 1-day weather delay.

[JDANDO]

I can't ****ing wait guys! I'll deal with butt light for this because with all the great info Bill hooked us up with, it doesn't say which rwy at LGA she will make her approach at. Plus I want to be in a spot where I can get tire smoke on touchdown so Bayswater it will be for me.

What focal length will you need to fill the frame from this location? For a 1.3 or 1.6 crop.

Thanks

[wunaladreamin]

Up to 400mm.

[moose135]

I use www.suncalc.net (http://www.suncalc.net) to check the position of the sun and when they really use RWY31L the Shuttle/NASA 747 have the sunlight on the butt " in germany we use the word buttlight" :cool:

It is possible to catch the shuttle on the turn to RWY31L ???

Or any other ideas?
Which position you prefer??

I/we would like to have perfect light conditions when the sun is shining!

Thanks again

It's the freaking Space Shuttle on top of a 747. I'm going to shoot it in whatever light there is when it gets here! :cool: I plan to camp out at Bayswater.

[moose135]

NASA has a Shuttle Ferry Flight status page here:

http://spaceflightnow.com/shuttle/ferry/status.html

It has been continually updated with the status of preparations for the flight from KSC to Dulles. The last entry, dated today at 3:15PM EDT reads:


The space shuttle Discovery is ready for the piggyback ride to the Smithsonian on Tuesday morning. Final securing of the ship atop its modified Boeing 747 carrier aircraft has been completed and the four-point lifting sling just detached and retracted from the orbiter.

I expect once this flight is done, they will pick up with the status of Enterprise's trip to New York.

[Joe]

Thanks for the link Moose! Sadly, I don't believe that I am going to make to DC to catch this one. On a positive note, that site says that they will have live streaming video of the takeoff, so that's better than nothing!

[gonzalu]

For those who care about this sort of thing...

Length of Boeing 747-100: 231'
90° distance to JFK 31L flight path from Bayswater Park: ~4785'

So, when the shuttle is exactly at the shortest distance from the shooting position, the following focal length and sensor combinations will yield a particular FOV. In other words, the measurement next to each focal length will be the dimensions that will fit in your viewfinder.

Here are the various Field of View dimensions for various cameras at various focal lengths.

1.6x Crop Sensor (Canon)
@400mm: 269'
@500mm: 215'

1.5x Crop Sensor (Nikon)
@400mm: 287'
@500mm: 230'

1.3x Crop Sensor (Canon)
@400mm: 331'
@500mm: 265'

1.0x Full Frame Sensor (Canon, Nikon, 35mm Film, etc.)
@400mm: 430'
@500mm: 344'

Another way to interpret the above. When you frame the shuttle on to p of the SCA, using a Canon 1.6x Crop Sensor camera, it will fit nicely almost full frame. However at 500mm it will clip the nose, tail or both as the FOV is smaller than the length of the SCA. On a Full Frame Sensor, to fill the frame you would need a 700mm lens to fill the frame and leave a little room for cropping/framing and not clip the nose/tail or both :smile:

Hope this helps!

[NickPeterman]

Well, tomorrow I get to face the Dragon in my own backyard. If it doesn't go well, you guys may count me in for the 23rd. I am very scared/nervous


Lord Help Me Sleep Tonight




Nick

[moose135]

Good hunting, Nick! Looking forward to seeing your photos.

[alberchico]

I will be at JFK at the welcoming ceremony. Will post pictures after the event.........

[NickPeterman]

Thanks, Moose! I'm holding about 15 miles south if the airport for a little while. Its almost go time!


Nick

[moose135]

Life feed from NASA TV
http://www.ustream.tv/nasahdtv (http://www.ustream.tv/nasahdtv)

[cowens727]

I can't get the day off from work, but I damn sure can head to the highest floor at work (64th fl @ 30 rock) and snap away as she comes up the hudson...that's the plan at least...

[Iberia A340-600]

My two contributions from today's special event:

Photographed from the Lincoln Memorial...

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y139/AlitaliaMD11/shuttlemall.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y139/AlitaliaMD11/n905na747.jpg

[yankees368]

Nice!

[Derf]

That first shot is AWESOME!!!!! It really tells the story...Shuttle on a 747 in DC!

[moose135]

Outstanding, Gordon!

[steve1840]

Very Nice!!! Really makes me want to get it with the statue of liberty.....

[cowens727]

Amazing shots, can not wait to see her Monday!

[THX Express]

And please do anything agaist the bad weather forecast :frown:

And what a beauty pic withe the Monument!!!

[NickPeterman]

I'll post over in the Spotting review section so that this thread can stay focused on Enterprise and JFK :)

[threeholerglory]

if they're doing the low pass on 31L, what are the odds they'll do the canarsie climb and make a trip to HoBe worthwhile?

[Strike]

Hello everybody-

I see that most of you want to shoot at Bayswater, but that would not work for me unfortunately. :frown: I only have 300mm and I am shooting Nikon. If I was Canon, I would have a 100-400mm already ;) . I see that there is a parking lot on Roger Avenue. Has anybody spotted from there before? I see a lot of trees there on Google Earth- is it possible to get past them to the water's edge? I am in need of a spot a bit closer than Bayswater. The other alternative would be to go to another airport to see the Enterprise, but isn't 1500' too high?
EDIT: I just wanted to add, I am not as concerned about getting the touchdown as I am getting a good approach shot :)

Thank you everybody for your help!

[sammers4247]

Do we have an ETA for Monday? I have something Monday afternoon that I'd like to try to change because I want to head out there! I heard that the flight will be between 9:30 and 11:30 AM - where it is coming from?? Figured you knowledgeable folks would know better than me...

[eric8669]

Hello everybody-

I see that most of you want to shoot at Bayswater, but that would not work for me unfortunately. :frown: I only have 300mm and I am shooting Nikon. If I was Canon, I would have a 100-400mm already ;) . I see that there is a parking lot on Roger Avenue. Has anybody spotted from there before? I see a lot of trees there on Google Earth- is it possible to get past them to the water's edge? I am in need of a spot a bit closer than Bayswater. The other alternative would be to go to another airport to see the Enterprise, but isn't 1500' too high?
EDIT: I just wanted to add, I am not as concerned about getting the touchdown as I am getting a good approach shot :)



Thank you everybody for your help!

Bayswater should be fine with a 300 for this or you could go to Inwood Park.

[Gerard]

Ugh, I have a meeting Monday morning, but at 1500' over the Lady, I should be able to see it from my desk! I would, however, really, really, really like a 1-day weather delay.

You might get your wish as they are forecasting rain Sat night through Monday afternoon. Not sure if they would cancel/delay the flight but low visibility would mess up the Manhattan flyby.
And that shot with the Wash Monument is AWESOME!!!!!!!!:biggrin::cool::biggrin:

[threeholerglory]

Hello everybody-

I see that most of you want to shoot at Bayswater, but that would not work for me unfortunately. :frown: I only have 300mm and I am shooting Nikon. If I was Canon, I would have a 100-400mm already ;) . I see that there is a parking lot on Roger Avenue. Has anybody spotted from there before? I see a lot of trees there on Google Earth- is it possible to get past them to the water's edge? I am in need of a spot a bit closer than Bayswater. The other alternative would be to go to another airport to see the Enterprise, but isn't 1500' too high?
EDIT: I just wanted to add, I am not as concerned about getting the touchdown as I am getting a good approach shot :)

Thank you everybody for your help!

that's what happens when you choose the dark side. Luckily, there is a quick-fix for the disease. www.lensrentals.com to the rescue!

[gpalz1]

My two contributions from today's special event:


You can just make out the chase plane underneath. Awesome.

I'm hoping to get the morning off, if I'm lucky. Workload is insane of late. Otherwise, I'll be checking the forum for some fantastic pics.

George

[JDANDO]

Ugh, I have a meeting Monday morning, but at 1500' over the Lady, I should be able to see it from my desk! I would, however, really, really, really like a 1-day weather delay.
A 1-day delay would be terrible for us out-of-towners flying in for the event. I am really hoping for decent weather. If they delay, I hope they post that information before I get on the plane.

As far as spotting goes, I am leaning toward Inwood. Based on what I "know" this would give me the fly-by and landing. I would love to be at HoBe for a banking shot, but I think I prefer two chances to catch it.

Where are the locals/smart kids going to be?!

[wunaladreamin]

I will be at Bayswater with my contingent but you can't go wrong with Inwood either. I really want that tower shot.

[wunaladreamin]

Gordon, the Monument shot is ridiculous!

[moose135]

I will be at Bayswater with my contingent but you can't go wrong with Inwood either. I really want that tower shot.
I'll be there with you.

[gonzalu]

Well, today at IAD they gave us a SECOND unexpected fly-by after she came back from D.C. passes. Then the landing shot... so if we get lucky, we may have time for HoBe as well as Bayswater... But this will depend if they pass JFK first or not. At IAD they STARTED at IAD and then went downtown then passed IAD again and then landed...

[pinktristar]

Hectic weekend! I'll be in Boston on Sunday to catch the first JAL 787 flight, then drive down to NYC for the Shuttle arrival. It is still April 23rd St Georges Day? Planning on booking a hotel close to JFK and travel down late Sunday! Much easier than falling out of bed at Oh dark thirty and riding down from Rhode Island on Monday. Guess plans to travel on the first MBTA train out of Wickford Junction to PVD Airport are off the table! See some of you Monday!! - Geoff

[Speedbird1]

Has it been confirmed that the arrival of the Shuttle will be on Rwy 31L? Any chance she will use the VOR 13R Approach? I live near that approach and have no car so Bayswater is impossible for me.

[Speedbird1]

I was planning to spot at Coney Island or from Battery Park. I can't be in both places at once. If she flies over the Statue, then Battery Park would be best. If she flies by the VZ Bridge as she did on June 10, 1983, then Coney Island would be best; especially if she uses the VOR 13R approach. We won't know in advance so it's a crap-shoot. Good luck to us all!

[moose135]

The chances that they will fly that crazy-assed curved VOR 13 approach with the shuttle on top are almost zero...I'd say they are zero, but you never say never. If yesterday's flight into IAD is any guide, they are going to close down the airspace around NYC and let them go pretty much anywhere they want. If for some reason they need to land on 13, they will fly a straight in to the runway. As I said to someone upthread - read reply 18 in this thread, you'll see it's not the crapshoot you think it is.

[Speedbird1]

Bad news I hate to report. The weather service predicta a soaking rain all day Monday and even into Tuesday. What will the plans be due to inclement weather? I planned to sit at Battery Park to view the fly-by over Lower Manhattan and the Statue. It was a sure thing unlike the JFK runway used and approach. After all, the Statue cannot be moved while the arrival approach is variable. I vividly recall the disappointment when we wasted time waiting for the final Concorde arrival. I got zero pictures and we got harrassed by the Port Authority.

[Derf]

My plan is
1. Not to listen to the weatherman
2. Do not plan on the weatherman's forecast
3. If talking to a weatherman tell him I like to watch paint dry....

Why would you believe a forecast that is 5 days away???

[Speedbird1]

Just saw on NY1, the Intrepid is removing many of the historic aircraft on their flight deck and sending them to a museum upstate. I was hoping they could be placed on the pier near Concorde or put across 12th Ave. It seems bewilderimg that the museum would get rid of aircraft which was part of aviation history for a prototype orbiter which never had engines or controls and never entered the stratosphere. Hope the Blackbird and Harrier are still on exhibit.

[Chris S]

My plan is
1. Not to listen to the weatherman
2. Do not plan on the weatherman's forecast
3. If talking to a weatherman tell him I like to watch paint dry....

Why would you believe a forecast that is 5 days away???

Well, I hope the dismal weather forecasts get better for Monday also, BUT if it does
happen to stay the same I just hope they won't wait until late on Sunday to announce
any delays in the arrival schedule so that everyone can still adjust their plans accordingly !!:wink:

[wunaladreamin]

Would there be a rain date or something for this or is this going to be a day to day decision type of thing?

[threeholerglory]

My plan is
1. Not to listen to the weatherman
2. Do not plan on the weatherman's forecast
3. If talking to a weatherman tell him I like to watch paint dry....

Why would you believe a forecast that is 5 days away???

what if it was an Al Roker weather-report?

stiiiiiiiiiiirs the pot :tongue:

[NickPeterman]

We are also calling for rain down here at Dulles on Monday. with Tuesday appearing to be the first dry day in the schedule. Don't count anything out, though, as we were calling for rain at IAD until a few days out.

[FlyingColors]

Oh what to do?????

[emshighway]

From the FAA:
NEW YORK TRACON SPECIAL EVENTS NOTIFICATION

TO: JFK, LGA, and EWR Areas, JFK, EWR, LGA and TEB Towers & TMU
(FYI LIB and ISP Areas)

WHEN: Monday, April 23, 2012, @1430Z (1030 lcl)
Rain Date Wednesday, April 25, 2012 @1430Z (1030 lcl)

WHAT: Pluto 95/B747 Shuttle Carrier Aircraft (SCA)

REMARKS: Pluto 95/B747,the Shuttle Carrier Aircraft (SCA, a B-747 with the Space Shuttle Enterprise attached) will fly from Dulles Airport to JFK on Monday, April 23, 2012 at approximately 10:30 am. If weather should be below 3000’ and 5 miles, the mission will be postponed to Wednesday, April 25, 2012.

Maximum airspeed will be 250kts, maneuvers to be conducted at 200kts,
maximum cross wind component 20kts.

Pluto 90/C-9 will depart IAD 30 minutes ahead of the B-747 in order to provide weather information along the route of flight, but will proceed to JFK and land without flying the proposed SCA route.

Pluto 98/99/ T-38's will depart either Stewart (SWF) or Republic (FRG) and will be taking photographs of the SCA for the duration of the flight. The aircraft will hold at CHANT prior to engaging with SCA.

SCA will arrive via the CAMRN FOUR ARRIVAL. CAMRN handoff to EMPYR, EMPYR point out to EWR, LGA and TEB towers.

SCA will fly north over the Hudson River @ 1,500', start a climb to 3,000' after the GWB so as to remain in the Class B. Aircraft will turn left at the Tappan Zee Bridge, join the Hudson River southbound at the Alpine Tower and descend to 1500’ over the Hudson.


Once past the Verrazano…

IF EWR IS ON 22’s (see attached PRIMARY PROPOSAL)

EMPYR will handoff to JFK area and SCA will proceed eastbound south of the shore at 1,500’ and overfly JFK’s RWY 31L. Flybys at each airport will be at 1000’ AGL.

JFK will handoff to EWR Departure, 4N 119.2 (point out to LGA), SCA will overfly the Statue of Liberty, (no lower than 1500’ AGL), then EWR’s RWY 29 at 1,000’. After the EWR flyby, the SCA will start a climbing right turn to 2,000’. Pass over TEB (NOT executing a flyby).

EWR handoff to LGA, SCA will overfly LGA RWY 13 at 1,000’, LGA handoff to JFK, SCA will climb to 2,000’ and be vectored to overfly N90 and then land JFK RWY 31L.





IF EWR IS ON 4’s (see attached NORTH FLOW PROPOSAL)
Once past the Verrazano…

EMPYR will handoff to EWR, SCA will make a right turn to overfly EWR’s RWY 4R at 1,000’, continue north climbing to 2,000’ and make a right turn over TEB.
(NOT executing a flyby).

EWR will hand off to LGA, SCA will overfly LGA’s RWY 13 at 1,000’.

LGA will hand off to JFK, SCA will climb to 2,000’ and be vectored to overfly N90 and then land at JFK RWY 31L.

[lijk604]

Hoping the T-38's stage at FRG!

Great information. Thank you.

[moose135]

Thanks for the update, EMS!

[JHNA57]

After LGA - "...vectored and overfly N90"

Senior moment.... what is N90????

[moose135]

New York TRACON in Westbury

[NickPeterman]

You guys could have wind gusts up to 30 Knots on Monday, which exceeds the SCA's profile for crosswinds. Just want to make sure y'all consider that and don't get surprised by a sudden landing on a non 31 runway due to crosswinds....

[emshighway]

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j12/emshighway/Slide1.jpg

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j12/emshighway/Slide2.jpg

[wunaladreamin]

You sir, are my father. Thanks for all that info!

[JDANDO]

T-3 days until I get on the plane. Glad you guys understand all this flight plan, flight path VOR, IFR. I am just going to follow the smart kids around :cool:

Looks like we get a bonus c-9. Can't have to many DC-9's in my book.

And one question....Why are they using Pluto-95, Pluto-98 and Pluto-90 as the call signs?

[yankees368]

Well, if Pluto isn't allowed to be a planet anymore, it may as well be a call sign!

[Gerard]

Interesting when you read the info EMS gave us there IS A RAINDATE!! Wed the 25th. And everywhere I look and read Monday is looking awful (yeah I know its 4 days away but....) and I believe NASA wants the BEST conditions for this special once in a lifetime event. And Wed looks a whole lot better!!

[NickPeterman]

T-3 days until I get on the plane. Glad you guys understand all this flight plan, flight path VOR, IFR. I am just going to follow the smart kids around :cool:

Looks like we get a bonus c-9. Can't have to many DC-9's in my book.

And one question....Why are they using Pluto-95, Pluto-98 and Pluto-90 as the call signs?


At IAD, the DC-9 landed on a different runway than the Shuttle, and we got no shots. Just an FYI :(

[chrisparypa]

GO ENTERPRISE !

[gonzalu]

At IAD, the DC-9 landed on a different runway than the Shuttle, and we got no shots. Just an FYI :(

I am taking bets on the DC-9 on 31L, I am just saying :P

I was hoping (as many others were too) for a 31L Canarsie climb... looks like straight to Statue so no left bank... Oh well..

APOLOGIES in advance to all my friends as I will be paying close attention to my scanner. No disrespect meant if I ignore your conversation :tongue:

[megatop412]

Well, if Pluto isn't allowed to be a planet anymore, it may as well be a call sign!

LOL, totally agree with that

Well I hope things work out for you all, I hit up Dulles in the event that Monday would be a washout, and odds are looking like it might be. As I'll be leaving the area on Wednesday for a wedding, that would have totally ruined the opportunity to see the Shuttle.

Good luck guys, I would have LOVED to see the Space Shuttle land in my home town- get some kickass shots with the tower in the background!

[Matt Molnar]

Is 10:30 the time it's leaving IAD, or the time it's expected to start flying around NYC?

[bluejuice]

Issue Date :

April 19, 2012 at 2239 UTC



Location :

New York, New York



Beginning Date and Time :

April 23, 2012 at 1400 UTC 1000 Local



Ending Date and Time :

April 23, 2012 at 1500 UTC 1100 Local



Reason for NOTAM :

Temporary flight restrictions for Special Security Reasons



Type :

Security



Replaced NOTAM(s) :

N/A






Jump To:

Affected Areas (http://nycaviation.com/forum/#areas)
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Other Information (http://nycaviation.com/forum/#other)







Operating Restrictions and Requirements

Top (http://nycaviation.com/forum/#)






No pilots may operate an aircraft in the areas covered by this NOTAM (except as described).







EXCEPT AS SPECIFIED BELOW AND/OR UNLESS AUTHORIZED BY ATC IN COORDINATION WITH THE DOMESTIC EVENTS NETWORK (DEN):
FOR OPERATIONS WITHIN THIS TFR, ALL EMERGENCY/LIFE SAVING FLIGHTS (AIR AMBULANCE/LAW ENFORCEMENT/FIREFIGHTING) AND DOD FLIGHTS MUST COORDINATE WITH THE FAA OPERATIONAL MANAGER IN CHARGE AT THE NEW YORK TRACON AT 516-683-2966.








Other Information:

Top (http://nycaviation.com/forum/#)



ARTCC:

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Authority:

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[FlyingColors]

Unreal - no real rain for a month until now ......

[FlyingColors]

Question - after she lands at JFK where will she park?
Any chance of a pic for us regular slobs without ramp pals to get a shot somewhere?

[Joe]

Question - after she lands at JFK where will she park?
Any chance of a pic for us regular slobs without ramp pals to get a shot somewhere?

While I don't have any concrete info, I read somewhere that it would be in a hangar, it most likely will not be outside very long. They don't want it exposed, so any shots would have be taken rather soon after it has landed. Of course there should be opportunities to see it being removed from the SCA with some rather large cranes - at least one could hope!

It's a shame that the weather sucks for Monday, I was planning to keep my kids home so that they could see it live, something that can't be done on Wednesday due to state tests, but I'll be there!

[AirtrafficController]

Question - after she lands at JFK where will she park?
Any chance of a pic for us regular slobs without ramp pals to get a shot somewhere?

Mostly likely Hangar 19.

[Derf]

it will sit on top of the 747 for 1 to 2 weeks while they prep for removal...they need to move equipment from DC to NYC to get the Job done...then it will sit alone in hangar (NOT NAMING IT HERE) for move to Intrepid.

[eric8669]

Hanger 12 area.

[Perriwen]

I honestly can't believe some of the articles I've been reading as of late. They are seriously, going to take a space shuttle, one of only a small number out there, an aviation treasure...going to plunk it on an old, cramped ship floating in a river that's not known for upkeeping it's aircraft fleet very well (Concorde's nose falling off, anyone?)....and throwing bubble wrap over it. And plan to 'eventually' build a facility on this ship(!?!?!) for it if they ever get the funds. Unbelievable.

How is anyone thinking this is a good idea? Think beyond 'oh goody, we get a space shuttle!' First you have the fact that it's a VERY disrespectful thing to do to the orbiter in the name of a slightly higher assumed tourist count, but it's also really going to look ugly on the ship when you think about it. The ship isn't that big to begin with, and now they want to add a DC-9 sized aircraft with a -building- around it? ON the ship? So, good bye flight deck as it will have been, there is going to be a -building- over the back end of it?

[moose135]

We understand, you're upset you aren't getting a shuttle in Texas, but, please, enough!

[Perriwen]

We understand, you're upset you aren't getting a shuttle in Texas, but, please, enough!

At least we had a facility ready for it...

Seriously, you should check the aviation forums out there. Everyone else out there sees this for what it is-a very, very, very, very, VERY horrible idea. And that's people all over the country. And honestly, I'm over it not coming to Texas, but what they are planning on doing to this spacecraft is indefensible. You do NOT take something like this and just 'plunk it down and throw bubble wrap over it'.

[moose135]

You do NOT take something like this and just 'plunk it down and throw bubble wrap over it'.
Can you point me to a source for the "bubble wrap" claims? From the Intrepid's web site, they say:

...placed on the flight deck of the Intrepid where it will be on exhibit to the public starting this summer in a temporary climate-controlled pavilion that will feature innovative elements in an exciting and immersive experience for visitors.
Apparently, NASA is satisfied with the plans, or they wouldn't be giving it to the Intrepid.

[Perriwen]

Can you point me to a source for the "bubble wrap" claims? From the Intrepid's web site, they say:

Apparently, NASA is satisfied with the plans, or they wouldn't be giving it to the Intrepid.

Yeah, I have a source. Your own local paper.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/19/nyregion/anticipating-space-shuttles-arrival-old-warplanes-ship-out.html?_r=2



Now, Mr. Woods’s staff must erect an all-weather tent, 56 feet tall, on the aft of the flight deck....Once the shuttle is in place, Mr. Woods said, the tent — similar to the bubbles that cover some tennis courts — will be raised over it. By July, he said, the museum hopes to start selling tickets for entry into an exhibit designed around Enterprise that will cost about $3 million to build.


In regards to NASA being 'satisfied' with the plans, they signed the shuttle over to them back in September, when it sounded like a facility would be built and ready for the shuttle. I've heard some call it the 'bait and switch'.

[eric8669]

What exactly is wrong with a bubble?

[Perriwen]

What exactly is wrong with a bubble?

You're seriously okay with one of only four space shuttles in the world having a tent thrown over it while the owners 'hope' to eventually build something more permanent? AND having a historical carrier with a 50-foot structure covering 1/4 the ship?

Up to me, I'd keep that shuttle in a hanger at JFK or Kennedy until they built a proper, permanent location. This just seems lazy, rushed, and sloppy.

[moose135]

Clearly, things are different in Texas.

This is bubble wrap:
http://photo-dictionary.com/photofiles/list/5740/7513bubble_wrap.jpg

This is the type of bubble they are talking about:
https://gustavus.edu/hes/images/tennisbubble.jpg

But saying they are going to "wrap the shuttle in bubble wrap" seems to serve your purposes better...

[steve1840]

What exactly is wrong with a bubble?

The fact that this shuttle filled bubble is going to be in NY and not in Texas Im guessing. If this makeshift structure was located in Houston I'm sure we would be hearing him sing a whole different tune.....or we wouldn't be hearing anything at all....just saying..

[Perriwen]

And what exactly are my purposes? Here's a hint, if it's anything other than wanting to see a rare and historical aircraft treated with the dignity and respect it deserves and not just serve as a tourist magnet, you'd be completely wrong.


The fact that this shuttle filled bubble is going to be in NY and not in Texas Im guessing. If this makeshift structure was located in Houston I'm sure we would be hearing him sing a whole different tune.....or we wouldn't be hearing anything at all....just saying..

Actually, Houston had a facility ready for it. So did Seattle. So did Wright-Patterson.

[steve1840]

And what exactly are my purposes? Here's a hint, if it's anything other than wanting to see a rare and historical aircraft treated with the dignity and respect it deserves and not just serve as a tourist magnet, you'd be completely wrong.

How was it not a tourist magnet when it was in the air and space museum? Isn't the purpose of putting something historic on display at a museum (and the last I checked the Intrepid was a museum), to draw people to it to see it???

[Perriwen]

How was it not a tourist magnet when it was in the air and space museum? Isn't the purpose of putting something historic on display at a museum (and the last I checked the Intrepid was a museum), to draw people to it to see it???

Because while it was at the Air and Space museum, it was actually treated with the respect it deserved. It got a place in an indoor facility that was READY for it when it got there, was very well kept up. They had a definite plan for it, they had the funding, and it was in a place that -suited- the shuttle. The Air and Space museum did not just throw a tent over it and say 'well, let's see if maybe someday we can give this thing a home'.

Also, this isn't just NYC. LA also doesn't have a place or plan for it's shuttle yet either. Which is even worse because they're getting a -real- shuttle and not the glorified glider.

[Speedbagel_001]

I honestly can't believe some of the articles I've been reading as of late. They are seriously, going to take a space shuttle, one of only a small number out there, an aviation treasure...going to plunk it on an old, cramped ship floating in a river that's not known for upkeeping it's aircraft fleet very well (Concorde's nose falling off, anyone?)....and throwing bubble wrap over it. And plan to 'eventually' build a facility on this ship(!?!?!) for it if they ever get the funds. Unbelievable.

How is anyone thinking this is a good idea? Think beyond 'oh goody, we get a space shuttle!' First you have the fact that it's a VERY disrespectful thing to do to the orbiter in the name of a slightly higher assumed tourist count, but it's also really going to look ugly on the ship when you think about it. The ship isn't that big to begin with, and now they want to add a DC-9 sized aircraft with a -building- around it? ON the ship? So, good bye flight deck as it will have been, there is going to be a -building- over the back end of it?

For the record, the Concorde's nose didn't "fall" off - it was ripped away by a truck passing by too close in the dead of night. And it took place while the aircraft was in a temporary location in Brooklyn when the Intrepid was relocated for refurbishing.
Speaking of Concorde, one could ask the same question - now that it's back at the Intrepid, why is GBOAD not housed in it's own indoor facility, protected from the elements? Or even the A-12? Or Tomcat, etc... At least the Tomcat "belongs" on the deck of an aircraft carrier.

[Matt Molnar]

Got to watch them unload the Scimitar, the Skyknight and the MiG-15 on Wednesday...

http://www.nycaviation.com/newspage/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/scimitar-3-602x401.jpg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eciW4Z15Wew

More here: http://www.nycaviation.com/2012/04/make-way-for-shuttle-intrepid-museum-unloads-three-warplanes-to-clear-room-for-enterprise/

[steve1840]

Have you seen the shuttle not get treated with respect in NYC yet?? No..because it hasn't gotten there. And once again, it will be indoors on top of the intrepid. Those tents are weather sealed and climate controlled.

[moose135]

Speaking of Concorde, one could ask the same question - now that it's back at the Intrepid, why is GBOAD not housed in it's own indoor facility, protected from the elements? Or even the A-12? Or Tomcat, etc... At least the Tomcat "belongs" on the deck of an aircraft carrier.
You could ask that same question about every museum that displays aircraft outdoors. Even the Air Force Museum has a number of aircraft displayed outside, and for decades had a large part of their display - including the XB-70 - parked on the ramp outside the building.

[Perriwen]

For the record, the Concorde's nose didn't "fall" off - it was ripped away by a truck passing by too close in the dead of night. And it took place while the aircraft was in a temporary location in Brooklyn when the Intrepid was relocated for refurbishing.
Speaking of Concorde, one could ask the same question - now that it's back at the Intrepid, why is GBOAD not housed in it's own indoor facility, protected from the elements? Or even the A-12? Or Tomcat, etc... At least the Tomcat "belongs" on the deck of an aircraft carrier.

That's what I would love to know. Why are all these very rare and historical aircraft in that position? Which is why I am VERY timid about how the museum will treat the shuttle. Because from what I am seeing here, the mindset is 'Oooo, shuttle!! Many people will see it!!! Goody!!! Just move some things here and plop it there..." as opposed to "Wow, this is a very precious treasure. We need to be as ready as possible to protect this spacecraft at all costs and make sure it's in a dignified area so we can share it with the public'.

I wouldn't have a bit of a problem if there was a large indoor museum that was housing the shuttle and was ready. Something like they said they would have across the street (despite reports it was near a strip club..). But, this is just -wrong- to place the shuttle there like this. And I feel the same way about the A-12 and the Concorde. What's the reasoning for their positions like that, crammed on a ship and in the elements? Or placing the Concorde so close to a road that it's nose could be ripped off like that?

[Speedbagel_001]

You could ask that same question about every museum that displays aircraft outdoors. Even the Air Force Museum has a number of aircraft displayed outside, and for decades had a large part of their display - including the XB-70 - parked on the ramp outside the building.

Certainly. NO disagreement. It's just the way things go. We're lucky to even have such a diverse collection like these aircraft in one location. Here's a photo I took a few years back on the deck.

http://db.tt/xKq53yH9

[wunaladreamin]

Perriwen, do you know Sidney Crosby?

[Perriwen]

Perriwen, do you know Sidney Crosby?

Yeah, we're spoken over the years.

[mirrodie]

floating in a river that's not known for upkeeping it's aircraft fleet very well (Concorde's nose falling off, anyone?)....and throwing bubble wrap over it.

First you have the fact that it's a VERY disrespectful thing to do to the orbiter in the name of a slightly higher assumed tourist count

Listen up here, pardner....

First off, G-GOAD's nose happened off site in Queens, miles from the ship.

Second, its a mock up ship. I suggest reserving respect for living beings deserving of it.

Lastly, its all about tourists and therefore $$$. Maybe we should place it near the CR Smith museum in Dallas. Yep, you'll get numbers and a shuttle...

[Perriwen]

Listen up here, pardner....
Lastly, its all about tourists and therefore $$$. Maybe we should place it near the CR Smith museum in Dallas. Yep, you'll get numbers and a shuttle...

Speaking of numbers, the JSC actually has .3 million MORE visitors than Intrepid each year.

Most arguments I hear on other boards from all over the country hint the Enterprise actually should have gone to Wright-Patterson, not Houston.

[NickPeterman]

Maybe we can start a separate thread for this discussion and keep focused on info semi-pertinent to Enterprise's arrival?

[Perriwen]

Maybe we can start a separate thread for this discussion and keep focused on info semi-pertinent to Enterprise's arrival?

It was originally with info and opinion on what they were planning to do with the shuttle once it arrived. Then people started in with the 'oh, you're just a jealous Texan' junk out of arrogant assumptions and bias. >.<

and of you think it's just us Texas, count the number of positive opinions: http://www.fencecheck.com/forums/index.php/topic,24409.0.html

[pgengler]

@IntrepidMuseum (https://twitter.com/#!/IntrepidMuseum/status/193427427068878848):


Enterprise flight to NYC postponed until further notice due to unfavorable weather forecast for 4/23. Details to follow.

[NickPeterman]

But here is where I get confused. Regardless of what you, me, or anyone thinks, the Enterprise IS coming to NYC and the Intrepid. Arguing about it is simply going to make people mad, and to what end? NASA did the best job they could ensuring the Shuttles went to diverse, geographically separated, and well prepared locales. To have had them all on the Eastern Seaboard or all at NASA/US Government museums would have seemed unjust. Many bid, and a few won.

NASA would never let Enterprise arrive in NYC if they weren't confident of its safety in its future home.

[gonzalu]

At least we had a facility ready for it...

Seriously, you should check the aviation forums out there. Everyone else out there sees this for what it is-a very, very, very, very, VERY horrible idea. And that's people all over the country. And honestly, I'm over it not coming to Texas, but what they are planning on doing to this spacecraft is indefensible. You do NOT take something like this and just 'plunk it down and throw bubble wrap over it'.

As much as I love it, and respect it, in the end, it is just a piece of metal and parts, not a human being... sometimes we must weigh the balance of life. A national treasure yes, Mt Rushmore? I am not so sure... so no need to get too crazy about it. I believe what's being done is plenty good. Imagine the EXPOSURE it would get in the Intrepid vs elsewhere in the US (tourism) and not to mention NY has a seriously rich aviation history not to be forgotten or messed with so we deserve it just as much as anyone else!

BTW, where are the SCAs destined for? I would hope one goes to Boeing... ;-)

[yankees368]

Sorry out-of-towners. Can any of you reschedule for Wednesday?

[george]

http://www.intrepidmuseum.org/shuttle/images/InteriorTent.jpg

A conceptual rendering of how Space Shuttle Enterprise will be displayed on Intrepid’s flight deck, beginning Summer 2012.

I think its a nice display....

[NickPeterman]

One SCA (The former JAL 747-100SR) is being parted out to support the one currently in service, and the SOFIA (747SP with onboard telescope). The other will supposedly be retained as the crew training aircraft for SOFIA. I would have loved to see the SCA+Discovery/Atlantis/Endeavor displayed somewhere. Imagine how impressive it would be to walk in to a hangar and be greeted with that!

Maybe they could park the SCA in Houston?

[gonzalu]

@IntrepidMuseum (https://twitter.com/#%21/IntrepidMuseum) Enterprise flight to NYC postponed until further notice due to unfavorable weather forecast for 4/23. Details to follow. #intrepidshuttle (https://twitter.com/#%21/search/%23intrepidshuttle)

[Perriwen]

As much as I love it, and respect it, in the end, it is just a piece of metal and parts, not a human being... sometimes we must weigh the balance of life. A national treasure yes, Mt Rushmore? I am not so sure... so no need to get too crazy about it. I believe what's being done is plenty good. Imagine the EXPOSURE it would get in the Intrepid vs elsewhere in the US (tourism) and not to mention NY has a seriously rich aviation history not to be forgotten or messed with so we deserve it just as much as anyone else!

BTW, where are the SCAs destined for? I would hope one goes to Boeing... ;-)

One is going to be scrapped for parts for the remaining SCA, and that SCA will be used for spare parts for the SOFIA airborne observatory.

It's already a common Wings Over Houston visitor, anyway.

As for deserving it...how do you deserve it just as much as the very place everyone who flew on it communicated back to earth to (Mission Control Houston) and the place where the people who flew it lived and trained? NYC built a small part of the shuttle. Houston is the place that the shuttle crews depended on to make the missions work.

[NickPeterman]

According to some, that's the attitude that ultimately cost Houston the Shuttle

http://waynehale.wordpress.com/2011/04/14/why-houston-did-not-get-a-shuttle/

[Perriwen]

According to some, that's the attitude that ultimately cost Houston the Shuttle

http://waynehale.wordpress.com/2011/04/14/why-houston-did-not-get-a-shuttle/

And the New Yorkers think they're displaying a better attitude?

"We deserve it because we're NYC!!"

"We have more people than you, so we deserve it more!!"

"You Texans are just saying that because you're jealous!"

"Haha, we're getting it and you're not!"

Look in the mirror before you bring up 'attitude'.

[NickPeterman]

Look, Perriwen,

I am not a New Yorker, never have been, never will be. As for attitude. I've no need to look in the mirror. I pointed out a link that had been posted on a page you yourself linked to. Think about it, you chose NYC Aviation to blast the selection of NYC for a Shuttle, and then got angry when the people there didn't take it well. It was just asking for a fight.

Lets just all agree to let this stop here.

[Perriwen]

Look, Perriwen,
Think about it, you chose NYC Aviation to blast the selection of NYC for a Shuttle, and then got angry when the people there didn't take it well. It was just asking for a fight.



No....

I blasted what they planned to do WITH the shuttle once they had it, and have a fair amount of disgust for the choice they made as it does not seem like a very respectful one. THEY came in with the 'Aw, you're just a jealous Texan' crap instead of civily discussing that choice, which asked for the fight as soon as they got personal based on where I lived.

Honestly, I couldn't care less where Enterprise goes. If I'm gonna see a shuttle, I'm going to see one that actually flew in space. But that doesn't mean I can't be ticked at how they choose to display Enterprise.

[eric8669]

You're seriously okay with one of only four space shuttles in the world having a tent thrown over it while the owners 'hope' to eventually build something more permanent? AND having a historical carrier with a 50-foot structure covering 1/4 the ship?

Up to me, I'd keep that shuttle in a hanger at JFK or Kennedy until they built a proper, permanent location. This just seems lazy, rushed, and sloppy.

Have you seen these bubble's, it will be fine. what's the difference what covers it, as long as its covered. A permanent location will come soon.

[mirrodie]

Wow, a whole .3 million (or 300,000) more than Intrepid and the still couldn't pull it off, huh?

(I love how you called it .3 million as opposed to 300,000. I paid .444 million for a house once....sounds impressive.

Its not.)

[Perriwen]

Wow, a whole .3 million (or 300,000) more than Intrepid and the still couldn't pull it off, huh?

(I love how you called it .3 million as opposed to 300,000. I paid .444 million for a house once....sounds impressive.

Its not.)

Well, if you wanna talk numbers...

There will be THREE shuttles on the East Coast.

One will be Discovery, the most traveled spacecraft in history.
One will be Atlantis, who was the final shuttle to fly.
Then Enterprise, which never flew into space.

Discovery and Enterprise won't be terribly far from each other. So, if you're coming to the East Coast and want to see a shuttle, would you rather brave the NYC and New Jersey traffic and see the prototype that never went into space, or see the most traveled spacecraft in history and most famous shuttle along with the entire Air and Space Museum? Or, perhaps go further south to see Atlantis and the place where the vehicle launched and landed at? As well as maybe see a real launch yourself and meet an astronaut. And see the VAB. As well as the very firing room the launches were controlled from.

Just saying, with the numbers game that keeps getting brought up...with three shuttles in one region and two of them being real shuttles in massive, very well built facilities, Intrepid will probably get the smallest amount of interest out of the three.

[mirrodie]

Oy vey.

nuff said.

[wunaladreamin]

Just saying, with the numbers game that keeps getting brought up...with three shuttles in one region and two of them being real shuttles in massive, very well built facilities, Intrepid will probably get the smallest amount of interest out of the three.

LOL

Anyway...see you guys Wednesday???

[moose135]

...see you guys Wednesday???
I'll be there!

[Gerard]

Well, if you wanna talk numbers...

OMG can we just give it a break. Geeeeeeez!!! :frown:
And I dont care where they put it as most here probably we just want to see it fly around NYC and take pictures. :tongue:

[eric8669]

You are one bitter texan.

Well, if you wanna talk numbers...

There will be THREE shuttles on the East Coast.

One will be Discovery, the most traveled spacecraft in history.
One will be Atlantis, who was the final shuttle to fly.
Then Enterprise, which never flew into space.

Discovery and Enterprise won't be terribly far from each other. So, if you're coming to the East Coast and want to see a shuttle, would you rather brave the NYC and New Jersey traffic and see the prototype that never went into space, or see the most traveled spacecraft in history and most famous shuttle along with the entire Air and Space Museum? Or, perhaps go further south to see Atlantis and the place where the vehicle launched and landed at? As well as maybe see a real launch yourself and meet an astronaut. And see the VAB. As well as the very firing room the launches were controlled from.

Just saying, with the numbers game that keeps getting brought up...with three shuttles in one region and two of them being real shuttles in massive, very well built facilities, Intrepid will probably get the smallest amount of interest out of the three.

[Perriwen]

You are one bitter texan.

I'm not a Texan, I'm just here briefly to finish up college after Hurricane Katrina plopped me here.

Preferably, soon I'll be moving to somewhere around the Titusville, FL area. I'll get to see launches from my backyard AND live near Atlantis. <3

[wunaladreamin]

I'm not a Texan, I'm just here briefly to finish up college after Hurricane Katrina plopped me here.

Preferably, soon I'll be moving to somewhere around the Titusville, FL area. I'll get to see launches from my backyard AND live near Atlantis. <3
So what the **** are you complaining about then?!?!


EGADZ!!!!

[Perriwen]

So what the **** are you complaining about then?!?!


EGADZ!!!!

Certainly not what people keep claiming I'm complaining about. :P

[Gerard]

Certainly not what people keep claiming I'm complaining about. :P

Okay now can we put this to rest and focus on the original topic? PLEASE!! :tongue: Its getting boring and annoying.

[Tom_Turner]

It's unfortunate there are so few shuttles to distribute, however, if the criteria used by NASA was how many people would see the shuttle in a museum, and that was a large part of the decision, its seems the Intrepid is probably the logical choice...

http://c554.r54.cf1.rackcdn.com/SCH_...ram%20Tour.pdf (http://c554.r54.cf1.rackcdn.com/SCH_New%20NASA%20Tram%20Tour.pdf)

ABOUT SPACE CENTER HOUSTON
As the Official Visitor Center for NASA's Johnson Space Center, Space Center Houston is the only place on earth
that gives guests an out-of-this-world journey through human adventures in space. Since 1992, this $75 million,
180,000 square foot complex has entertained and informed over 11 million guests from every corner of the globe.


http://www.intrepidmuseum.org/Latest...repid-to-.aspx (http://www.intrepidmuseum.org/LatestNews/March-2010-(1)/Senators-Schumer-and-Gillibrand-Visit-Intrepid-to-.aspx)

The Intrepid Museum already draws almost 1 million visitors per year, 70% of whom come from outside of the New York City metropolitan area. After the Concorde was added to the Intrepid Museum in 2003, there was a 20% spike in attendance. Considering the outpouring of interest in bringing the space shuttle to New York, visitation is expected to balloon at an even larger rate.

Let's be mature.

The choice of Houston Texas as home for the Space Center was itself a political decision of that time.

The Intrepid as a choice for Enterprise is less than perfect from my point of view, however it is worth having one in New York City, and the general Metropolitan Area. And, lets not forget, as deserving of reverance or respect as these Shuttles are, for their historic and technical significance, like concorde, in the end, they are WELL represented.

(Keep in mind, for example, there are no examples of the definitive Clipper Sea Planes in existence I don't believe).

Perhaps an authentic Buran Orbiter can be secured for Houston? :smile:

[Perriwen]

The choice of Houston Texas as home for the Space Center was itself a political decision of that time.

The Intrepid as a choice for Enterprise is less than perfect from my point of view, however it is worth having one in New York City, and the general Metropolitan Area. And, lets not forget, as deserving of reverance or respect as these Shuttles are, for their historic and technical significance, like concorde, in the end, they are WELL represented.

(Keep in mind, for example, there are no examples of the definitive Clipper Sea Planes in existence I don't believe).

Perhaps an authentic Buran Orbiter can be secured for Houston? :smile:

It also can be argued the decision for Enterprise in NYC was politically influenced. Obama making sure his appointee gives a gift for his supporters like Schumar, Wiener, and Bloomberg while snubbing a very red state. Actually, it's funny when you consider ALL the shuttles went to a state that voted for him.

Also, the only Buran is far from good repair, after having the hanger it was in collapse onto it..

[Tom_Turner]

housekeeping decision by tt... :)

[Tom_Turner]

It also can be argued the decision for Enterprise in NYC was politically influenced. Obama making sure his appointee gives a gift for his supporters like Schumar, Wiener, and Bloomberg while snubbing a very red state. Actually, it's funny when you consider ALL the shuttles went to a state that voted for him.

Also, the only Buran is far from good repair, after having the hanger it was in collapse onto it..

Actually Perriwen, the Shuttle going to New York has ALREADY BEEN argued as a political decision.

I am responding to that line of the argument, which has already been posited, and adding that what can be stated quite factually, is the politics of placing of the Johnson Space Center in Texas. You can look it up as they say.

[FlyingColors]

I'll be there!

Me too. Or Jersey side???

[Perriwen]

Actually Perriwen, the Shuttle going to New York has ALREADY BEEN argued as a political decision.

I am responding to that line of the argument, which has already been posited, and adding that what can be stated quite factually, is the politics of placing of the Johnson Space Center in Texas. You can look it up as they say.

Perhaps. But, maybe NYC can take the Buran instead since there's a lot of Russian immigrants there. :p

[fk6065]

Getting back to the arrival plans, we know that Monday is out. Let's see what happens Tuesday or Wednesday

[Tom_Turner]

Perhaps. But, maybe NYC can take the Buran instead since there's a lot of Russian immigrants there. :p

We'll take that one too, I'm sure, should it become available. It'll be the ONLY one in the Western Hemisphere and look good alongside Enterprise.

[Perriwen]

We'll take that one too, I'm sure, should it become available. It'll be the ONLY one in the Western Hemisphere and look good alongside Enterprise.

You do realize the only one in the world is nothing but a hunk of rubble right now, right? <.<

[gonzalu]

Perriwen, what you need is some nice spotting out with Mike and Kenny! They will surely make you feel better ;-). I know I would certainly enjoy it :tongue:

[Perriwen]

Perriwen, what you need is some nice spotting out with Mike and Kenny! They will surely make you feel better ;-). I know I would certainly enjoy it :tongue:

Send 'em down here, then!

[JDANDO]

Sorry out-of-towners. Can any of you reschedule for Wednesday?

Ouch, pain...........

The MN contingent can not reschedule. Flights are canceled, hotel is cancelled, car is cancelled. It is going to be a crappy weekend.

[yankees368]

Ouch, pain...........

The MN contingent can not reschedule. Flights are canceled, hotel is cancelled, car is cancelled. It is going to be a crappy weekend.

:-(
Well, maybe the next time they retire a fleet of space vehicles and fly it to NY.

[Perriwen]

Ouch, pain...........

The MN contingent can not reschedule. Flights are canceled, hotel is cancelled, car is cancelled. It is going to be a crappy weekend.

There's still Endeavor coming to LA.

[JDANDO]

:-(
Well, maybe the next time they retire a fleet of space vehicles and fly it to NY.


I have a plan B. LAX in the fall :cool: I still will miss you guys!

[Perriwen]

I have a plan B. LAX in the fall :cool: I still will miss you guys!

I'm crossing my fingers that at least do some fly-bys of the JSC on the way.

[NickPeterman]

The SCA is limited to trips of about 1000NM right? A Fuel stop in TX would make good sense. I'll be in school a few hours away and would make the trek to either Houston or NAS Fort Worth, hah.

[Perriwen]

The SCA is limited to trips of about 1000NM right? A Fuel stop in TX would make good sense. I'll be in school a few hours away and would make the trek to either Houston or NAS Fort Worth, hah.

It's actually done fly bys at Ellington in the past when they were ferrying it from Edwards back to Kennedy.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V10Lqjuv4V0

[threeholerglory]

pardon my ignorance if I missed the post about it, but is there a possibility of a rain date of Tuesday? I hope to heck it is, I have a flight to Atlanta on Wednesday.

[nexpos]

UGH! It's been postponed!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2012/apr/HQ_M12-075_Enterprise_SCA_Flight_Postponed.html

MEDIA ADVISORY : M12-075


Weather Postpones Shuttle Enterprise Flight to New York


WASHINGTON -- NASA's planned flight to New York City of space shuttle Enterprise atop the 747 Shuttle Carrier Aircraft (SCA) has been postponed until further notice due to an unfavorable weather forecast for Monday, April 23.

To ensure a safe flight for Enterprise and the SCA, NASA managers, in consultation with the Intrepid Sea, Air and Space Museum, decided Friday to delay the flight because of inclement weather predicted in both New York and Washington, where the flight will originate.

Managers will continue to review weather forecasts and announce a new flight date as soon as practical.

Media will have access to the public areas at Dulles to view the departure of Enterprise. Media sending crews to Dulles should contact the Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority Office of Public Affairs at 703-417-8370.

After departing Washington, the SCA and Enterprise will fly over various parts of the New York City metropolitan area before landing and John F. Kennedy International Airport.

Several weeks following the arrival, Enterprise will be "demated" from the 747 and placed on a barge that will be moved by tugboat up the Hudson River to the Intrepid Sea, Air and Space Museum in June. The shuttle will be lifted by crane and placed on the flight deck of the Intrepid where it will be on exhibit to the public starting this summer in a temporary climate-controlled pavilion. The Intrepid continues work on a permanent exhibit facility to showcase Enterprise that will enhance the museum's space-related exhibits and education curriculum.

For more information about NASA's transfer of space shuttles to museums, visit:

[moose135]

pardon my ignorance if I missed the post about it, but is there a possibility of a rain date of Tuesday? I hope to heck it is, I have a flight to Atlanta on Wednesday.

Not from what EMSHighway posted up thread: http://nycaviation.com/forum/threads/42509-Shuttle-Enterprise-to-New-York-April-23rd-2012?p=464582&viewfull=1#post464582

[nexpos]

http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2012/apr/HQ_M12-075_Enterprise_SCA_Flight_Postponed.html


Text Size
Grow Text SizeShrink Text Size
Michael Curie
Headquarters, Washington
202-358-1100
[email protected]

Laura J. Brown
Federal Aviation Administration
202-267-3455
[email protected]
April 20, 2012

MEDIA ADVISORY : M12-075


Weather Postpones Shuttle Enterprise Flight to New York


WASHINGTON -- NASA's planned flight to New York City of space shuttle Enterprise atop the 747 Shuttle Carrier Aircraft (SCA) has been postponed until further notice due to an unfavorable weather forecast for Monday, April 23.

To ensure a safe flight for Enterprise and the SCA, NASA managers, in consultation with the Intrepid Sea, Air and Space Museum, decided Friday to delay the flight because of inclement weather predicted in both New York and Washington, where the flight will originate.

Managers will continue to review weather forecasts and announce a new flight date as soon as practical.

Media will have access to the public areas at Dulles to view the departure of Enterprise. Media sending crews to Dulles should contact the Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority Office of Public Affairs at 703-417-8370.

After departing Washington, the SCA and Enterprise will fly over various parts of the New York City metropolitan area before landing and John F. Kennedy International Airport.

Several weeks following the arrival, Enterprise will be "demated" from the 747 and placed on a barge that will be moved by tugboat up the Hudson River to the Intrepid Sea, Air and Space Museum in June. The shuttle will be lifted by crane and placed on the flight deck of the Intrepid where it will be on exhibit to the public starting this summer in a temporary climate-controlled pavilion. The Intrepid continues work on a permanent exhibit facility to showcase Enterprise that will enhance the museum's space-related exhibits and education curriculum.

[wunaladreamin]

According to the news, as I heard it from my landlord and saw reported on the NY Times site, they are aiming instead for Tuesday. Can anyone in the know advise as I know word from the govt can be as reliable as a two week out wx forecast.

[wunaladreamin]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/21/nyregion/space-shuttle-enterprises-trip-to-jfk-is-delayed.html

[alberchico]

Guys I just got this email from the Intrepid concerning the arrival (I was invited to attend the ceremony at JFK as a member)

''The Intrepid and NASA have discussed the planned movement of the space shuttle Enterprise and the weather forecast for Monday. Because the forecast is poor and unlikely to improve in both the Dulles and JFK Airport areas, the decision was made to cancel the Monday movement of Enterprise to JFK Airport.
It is too early to project a date on which we can have the event as weather projections of course can change. Intrepid and NASA will continue to communicate daily and as soon as forecasts allow we will send you information on the new event date and time.


We look forward to seeing you on the rescheduled arrival date.''

I'll post any updates the museum sends me as soon as I get them.....

[alberchico]

Just wanted to know, since the long term plan is to move the shuttle to a building across the street will the aircraft given to the museum upstate be ever returned ? The mig-15 was one of my favorites ......

[gpalz1]

Guys I just got this email from the Intrepid concerning the arrival...'

Guess nobody told the marketing department. Just got this email: http://us1.campaign-archive2.com/?u=680bd20d9ea086f798dde6cfb&id=08235561fc&e=fb75cd496d

[MORS-AB-ALTO]

You sir, are my father. Thanks for all that info!

I thought I was your father Kenny!

I go to work and 5 pages of replies...WOW. I must say this NY contingent is with you Perriwen. It is really a bum deal that Houston didn't get the Enterprise but it's late so I'll put the topic back to bed along with me.

[mirrodie]

. Arguing about it is simply going to make people mad, and to what end? N.

Well said.


You are one bitter texan.


Oh, man!!!

Dude!!!


You just got SLAMMED by Dunetz!!!


End of thread.

[mirrodie]

oh, BTW I just got done reading that article about why they didnt deserve it. At first, I wasnt going to bother as I thought it was some blowhard.

Then I realized it was from a former director of NASA, someone intricately involed with the SHuttle program.

Interesting and thus an insightful perspective.

[wunaladreamin]

Update...anyone...please???

[fk6065]

They will probably make the call on Sunday. I would keep both days free right now if possible. The only thing I could see possibly influencing the decision on which day is that isn't Tuesday Presidential Primary Elections in New York?

[alberchico]

So will the Intrepid be charging an additional fee for going into the shuttle exhibit ? The basic admission to the ship plus the Concorde tour is $42. So seeing everything might cost you more than $50 ?

[Perriwen]

You just got SLAMMED by Dunetz!!!



I guess you could say that if I was bitter, or even a Texan.


The basic admission to the ship plus the Concorde tour is $42. So seeing everything might cost you more than $50 ?

Please tell me that's not per person....charging $200 for a family of four will definitely cause the tourist numbers to drop, considering the price of admission to see Discovery and the whole Air and Space museum is going to be free.

[PhilDernerJr]

Lots said here and much misinformation.

First, Enterprise is NOT a mockup by any means. It didn't go into space but it did take to the air for all kinds of landing tests that paved the way for a safer shuttle program. It's my second favorite shuttle, and a youtube search will show you some kickass Enterprise moments.

Was Intrepid responsible for Concorde's nose? YES. They knew who they chose to watch it, how much security to have there, and its specific location, which is what led to its ability to be clipped. They allowed the nose to hang over an active roadway...simple as that.

Does the Intrepid have a reputation for mishandling their displays and aircraft? YES, but the worst was years back and they renovated and refurbed all of their planes and improved that reputation.

With that, my opinions...

- Did NYC DESERVE it? I don't think so, but visibility and access to that masses DOES matter, so NYC got it.

- New Yorkers that complained about "not getting a real shuttle" are idiots. We're lucky we got one.

- However, Texans that are still upset need to get over it.

- Is the Intrepid's sole goal to make money? I think so. Visiting the Intrepid for 2 people costs just shy of $50, and that doesn't even include access to the Concorde. You can almost breeze through museum in 30 minutes otherwise.

- I don't think highly of them as an organization by any means, and NYCA's interaction with them during this shuttle process has further enforced my views.

Perriwen, though I agree with your views about where shuttles went, I think your views about the tent and such are highly biased and it comes across in the words you use that bend some facts. I think you came across with attitude and I think you received a fair response from rational people here. BUT, don't think that we (NYers) will allow Enterprise to be mistreated. We (NYCA especially) WILL call out Intrepid on EVERY misstep. I promise you that I'll be keeping a close eye.

I will officially say that I regret using NYCA to obtain signatures for Intrepid to get a Space Shuttle.

Intrepid needs to understand that this isn't THEIR shuttle, but EVERYONE'S. We all paid for it and celebrated, cried and love it. I wonder what their admision fees will become now.

[wunaladreamin]

http://i.my.afterdawn.com//standard/16598.jpg

[Perriwen]

Perriwen, though I agree with your views about where shuttles went, I think your views about the tent and such are highly biased and it comes across in the words you use that bend some facts. I think you came across with attitude and I think you received a fair response from rational people here. BUT, don't think that we (NYers) will allow Enterprise to be mistreated. We (NYCA especially) WILL call out Intrepid on EVERY misstep. I promise you that I'll be keeping a close eye.


I'm sorry for the attitude, but, I had just read the articles about it and was pretty darned steamed. Not only about the shuttle, but for the Intrepid as well and how the ship will look with a tent covering the aft end of the deck and apparently the arresting cables. I was at least expecting them to have a separate barge for all that.

[PhilDernerJr]

The original plan called for a glass dome on the pier (and I think what was truly presented to NASA), but I think this is part of Intrepid's preference to not have it visible from public areas unless you've paid to go inside.

[Perriwen]

The original plan called for a glass dome on the pier (and I think what was truly presented to NASA), but I think this is part of Intrepid's preference to not have it visible from public areas unless you've paid to go inside.

Yeah...and that's honestly one of the thing I think is going to be train wreck for expectations, one being the 'pay extra to see the shuttle' where other museums include the shuttle with everything else. (Again, Air and Space museum is free admission to both buildings, and Kennedy is $45 a person plus a whole host of other stuff including a bus tour included.) The other being it seems to kind of ruin the experience of being on a carrier if you build an extra structure on the flight deck. It goes from 'what this would look like at sea' to something else entirely. Especially if it's on the spot where you'd usually say 'wow, THIS is all the space a pilot has to land on?'

But, what can you do. They're gonna do what they're gonna do.

[gonzalu]

One is going to be scrapped for parts for the remaining SCA, and that SCA will be used for spare parts for the SOFIA airborne observatory.

It's already a common Wings Over Houston visitor, anyway.

As for deserving it...how do you deserve it just as much as the very place everyone who flew on it communicated back to earth to (Mission Control Houston) and the place where the people who flew it lived and trained? NYC built a small part of the shuttle. Houston is the place that the shuttle crews depended on to make the missions work.

So you should get a communications satellite or an antenna or a microphone or something then... maybe a large screen TV for the museum?

[Perriwen]

So you should get a communications satellite or an antenna or a microphone or something then... maybe a large screen TV for the museum?

Depends, would you be willing to take a wing bolt since Grumman made the wings and give up the shuttle?

If the answer is 'no', you should know better than to say something like that.

Regardless, given that we have an authentic Saturn V and an authentic Apollo command module that went around the moon and you don't, I think the score is even. ;)

[gonzalu]

Depends, would you be willing to take a wing bolt since Grumman made the wings and give up the shuttle?

If the answer is 'no', you should know better than to say something like that.

Perriwen, look, I am simply having fun at your expense. Seriously, you make it too easy to bust your balls ... Whenever you're in NYC, come hang with the crew at JFK and we will show you a heck of a great time. Then we will visit the new Shuttle Exhibit at Intrepid and bust your balls some more, all in good fun... and we will still love ya!

So, nya nya nya nya nya :tongue: Cheers!

[Perriwen]

Perriwen, look, I am simply having fun at your expense. Seriously, you make it too easy to bust your balls ... Whenever you're in NYC, come hang with the crew at JFK and we will show you a heck of a great time. Then we will visit the new Shuttle Exhibit at Intrepid and bust your balls some more, all in good fun... and we will still love ya!

So, nya nya nya nya nya :tongue: Cheers!

I know, I'm messing with you too. :P

Someday I may get back up there, I've already been up there twice. Neither trip included Intrepid, though. It was a guided tour and they just went past the ship without even uttering a word about it. Like wise, you should come and hang out in Houston sometime. Then I can bust your balls about us having the Saturn V and Apollo 17 command module. :D Going around the moon DOES trump glide tests....

[mirrodie]

We all paid for it and celebrated, cried and love it. I wonder what their admision fees will become now.

Cried???

http://youtu.be/g2jAwiq6YsE



;)




In all seriousness, Perriwen, as Manny said, just playing. Honestly, this forum is leaps beyond a certain blue site. Some great camaraderie here.

[FlyingColors]

Alright then...that was was fun...
Now......
Without further delay back to our regular irregular program.

For the record, what day is this thing coming in?!

[alberchico]

Alright then...that was was fun...
Now......
Without further delay back to our regular irregular program.

For the record, what day is this thing coming in?!

My guess would be Wednesday, given that the winds will be calm and they want as many people as possible to see it...

[Chris S]

My guess would be Wednesday also, especially since that was the rain date posted on the TRACON notification. Anyway, hopefully they'll post an official update by tomorrow.:cool:

[gonzalu]

Prediction: Wednesday
Effed Up Prediction: Tuesday
Sad Prediction: The 30th

[Derf]

My Source says it is WED
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8e/English_ouija_board.jpg/300px-English_ouija_board.jpg

[Speedbird1]

I posted last week that there was a problem with the weather forecasted for April 23 and several resonders laughed at me. They should check first before making a fellow aviation enthusiast sound like a fool. I was trying to be helpful to those changing plans for Monday. I was also mocked when Kids Day got cancelled back in Sept. a few years ago. We must try to get along and be helpful on this wonderful site. We have enough problems these days with the authorities when doing our spotting!

[Speedbird1]

Very informative. Thank you. I plan to be at Battery Park Wed. AM to see the fly-by over the Statue. I saw the exact same fly-by back in June 1983; it was awesome but I had no camera.

[Derf]

WHERE DID THIS HAPPEN? WHO LAUGHED AT YOU? WHO MADE YOU LOOK LIKE A FOOL?

Here is page 8, is this what your talking about?
http://nycaviation.com/forum/threads/42509-Shuttle-Enterprise-to-New-York-April-23rd-2012/page8

[gonzalu]

It looks like it will be very high for the statue run... hope I am wrong for your sake. After seeing the passes in D.C., I think the idea would be to watch. For photos, it may be a bit of a stretch :-(

[AJ]

Just posted on the 1983 Shuttle thread, wrong one, sorry. I am currently in IAD and the shuttle is still sitting on the 747. I thought the news in NYC said that the shuttle would be delayed.

AJ

[Zee71]

Wednesday may seem to be the day of choice. Looking forward to this BIG TIME!

[Matt Molnar]

It looks like it will be very high for the statue run... hope I am wrong for your sake. After seeing the passes in D.C., I think the idea would be to watch. For photos, it may be a bit of a stretch :-(
While the TRACON itinerary says 1500 ft, I did hear from a pretty good source that "at or below 1,000" is a possibility. Unfortunately we probably won't know until it actually happens. :confused:

[Speedbird1]

1500' or 1000' is acceptable so I could get both the Statue and the aircraft in the shot. I would also see the flight over EWR from there. Standing on the Intrepid is another possibility. Thanks for the insight.

[Speedbird1]

Regarding an extra fee to view the Shuttle, I am also very disappointed but it seems the Intrepid Museum hasn't received enough donations so they must charge to see the Shuttle. I had hoped it would be placed alongside Concorde on the pier, so all could see for free. This is not the case. Incidentally, boarding the Concorde is no longer included with a $22 Intrepid admission. There is an extra hefty fee to board which includes a short film and I think tours allow guests to sit in the cockpit.

[Speedbird1]

I agree. Those 3 displaced historic aircraft could have been placed on the pier in front of Concorde; there's plenty of room. This has happened before. Intrepid used to display an El Al 707 cockpit but it got shipped-off to I believe a museum in Long Island. Maybe they were scared it would offend terrorists. Sadly, there's no chance that MIG-15 will ever be returned. Remember what they did to the Edson?