LGA Perimiter Rule Question(s)

[kc2aqg]

So there are many of you that are probably more familiar with the LGA perimeter rules than I am so I am curious about a few things...

1) What are the details of the LGA Perimeter rule? What is the max distance for flights allowed? Why was it originally established (I've heard to limit congestion & force more crowded transcons to JFK & EWR)

2) What is your opinion on abandoning the perimeter rule? Do we really think it is still necessary?

3) This is my solution - why not have a modified slot-situation whereby airlines that want to fly transcon routes can have a select few times during the day where they can fly them? I'm saying allow transcon routes at specific times and limit the actual number of flights that can go transcon, but to allow these select few instead of banning them altogether. Also, perhaps auctioning off these transcon slots as more expensive slots for specific times could/should be part of the solution?

Very curious to learn more about this since New York airspace is getting more and more crowded and surely there must be market opportunities for transcon routes from LGA due to its proximity to the city. These thoughts were totally random and I thought of them as LGA arrivals were flying over I-95 on the rwy 22 approach this morning on my way into work.

[PhilDernerJr]

The limit is 1,500 miles, with DEN being exempt because the route existed before the rule was put into effect. I don't know when it was put into place, but it was done so to spread out various route markets between LGA and JFK.

I personally do agree with it to an extent. Right now, LGA is at capacity, and even the OPTION to fly any more or different routes could crush the airport. Although on the flip side, maybe the opportunity to fly longer routes INSTEAD of the smaller regional ops, could mean larger aircraft operating into the airport....therefore increasing capacity, or better utilizing it.

Hmmmm

[Lezam]

I found a flight on flightaware with a DAL 757 going all the way out to PHX. Ill try to find the link, but what kind of circumstances would that be allowable in?

I just thought of this, but what if LGA was the only one to offer flights within X amount of miles, and JFK was forced to host flights anything over that amount. For example, taking anything regional away from JFK and stuffing it into LGA. On the flipside, taking anything over lets say 500 miles away from LGA and forcing it to go to JFK.

I know thousands would be inconvenienced, but it could work.

[pgengler]

I just thought of this, but what if LGA was the only one to offer flights within X amount of miles, and JFK was forced to host flights anything over that amount. For example, taking anything regional away from JFK and stuffing it into LGA. On the flipside, taking anything over lets say 500 miles away from LGA and forcing it to go to JFK.

I know thousands would be inconvenienced, but it could work.

I think it would be an interesting idea if there were some convenient way to get from one to the other, but there's not. I'm sure there are plenty of people who are coming into/going out of JFK on an international flight somewhere but aren't starting their trip from JFK.

[PhilDernerJr]

I found a flight on flightaware with a DAL 757 going all the way out to PHX. Ill try to find the link, but what kind of circumstances would that be allowable in?

Exemption from charter.....that was probably the Mets or another team.

[Matt Molnar]

Also, the rule does not apply on Saturdays.

I just thought of this, but what if LGA was the only one to offer flights within X amount of miles, and JFK was forced to host flights anything over that amount. For example, taking anything regional away from JFK and stuffing it into LGA. On the flipside, taking anything over lets say 500 miles away from LGA and forcing it to go to JFK.

I know thousands would be inconvenienced, but it could work.

As Phil G. alluded to, it would be fine for us NY'ers, but would suck for people from Portland, Maine and Little Rock, Arkansas who have to connect at JFK to go overseas.

If the original AirTrain design were constructed, where LGA and JFK would have been connected by a 20 minute train ride, this would probably work fine. Unfortunately that doesn't seem likely.

[Lezam]

You guys are right, I didn't take that fact into consideration.

[Idlewild]

It was implemented in 1984. I believe the 1,500 mile rule for airlines is not in effect on Saturdays and/or Sundays. Charters, private jets and government being the permanent exception.

My thought has always been if the PANYNJ was allowed to extend the runways by 2,000ft and take over Rikers for additional parking space, they could allow more flights with bigger radius's. Either that or like I have said before use NYS's draconian Eminent Domain rule to evict and level Staten Island and make one big Super Airport. Use Port Mobil as Jet-A storage.