Low Low Approaches on Localizer 31

**PhilDernerJr** · 2006-02-27, 09:25 AM

So last night when arriving at my lady's house on the eastern edge of Queens, we saw aircraft making the right turn onto base for LGA's Localizer 31 approach.

I was shocked at how low the planes were that far out. These planes were certainly under a 1,000 feet it seemed here, several miles out from the airport.

I'll have to check passur when I get home tonight to find the actual altitudes, but what's up with that? I know the Localizer doesn't offer pilots the knowledge of whether or not they are at the right hieght on approach, but being at 1,000 feet when you're 6 miles out is a little strange to me.

I saw an AA 738 doing this at about 10:55pm Sunday night.

**T-Bird76** · 2006-02-27, 10:16 AM

Its funny you say this Phil when I was driving home from your place yesterday on the LIE I was amazed how low both LGA and JFK arrivals were. Even all the way out by me the JFK traffic was very low, I also checked Passur on a BA 747 that passed over my house, she was only 3000 feet!

**Matt Molnar** · 2006-02-27, 11:51 AM

They are pretty low over Bayside. The published altitude at the beginning of the approach over southern Nassau County is 1,600. They fly straight northwest over my house, and begin descending just southeast of where Francis Lewis Blvd meets the Grand Central Pkwy.

Approach Chart (PDF):
http://www.airnav.com/depart?http://204 ... 289L31.PDF

Map of intersection FABRY:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q ... .76+(FABRY)&ll=40.725437,-73.764954&spn=0.015936,0.042915

**PhilDernerJr** · 2006-02-27, 02:32 PM

Or you can view that Approach Chart on the LGA Data page.

LGA Data:

http://www.nycaviation.com/lgadata

Localizer 31 PDF:

http://www.nycaviation.com/pdf/lga/LOCRWY31.pdf

**Matt Molnar** · 2006-02-27, 02:45 PM

Oooh, nice.

**USAF Pilot 07** · 2006-02-27, 06:58 PM

I flew in on the LOC31 approach last week on a UAL plane, and we were at 1,200 feet 3 miles out...

**N790SW** · 2006-03-04, 10:35 PM

Originally Posted by T-Bird76

Its funny you say this Phil when I was driving home from your place yesterday on the LIE I was amazed how low both LGA and JFK arrivals were. Even all the way out by me the JFK traffic was very low, I also checked Passur on a BA 747 that passed over my house, she was only 3000 feet!

where on LI do u live tommy ?? cuz thts cool seein a 744 tht low

**SengaB** · 2006-03-05, 12:32 AM

The Expressway Visual has a Manditory crossing altitude over the "DIALS" NDB at or above 2500ft. After passing over the DIALS NDB aircraft decend to where they need to be to land. So what you are probably seeing are some planes getting down VERY fast right after they pass over the NDB instead of a gradual decent.
The DIALS intersection/PETHS NDB is 4.9 S miles SW (225) degrees from LGA.
Heres what the approach plate looks like from my Jeppesen Plates.

Senga

**N790SW** · 2006-03-05, 01:00 AM

hey i always wanted to know how to read jepesen charts- could one of u guys explain this to me plz

**SengaB** · 2006-03-05, 02:01 PM

Sure I'll do it.

This is a visual approach

The black dotted arrows are the visual path the a/c takes to runway 31 into LGA

The solid thin lines are the VOR radials that make up the fix/intersection. that has been labeled (DIALS) Dials is made up of JFK VOR's 317 degree radial and LGA VOR 225 degree radial. Where the 2 intersect is where a/c shall begin their final decent into LGA.
I might add:
On this particular approach:
If the LGA VOR is out for service then the 225 degree radial will not be available for navigation. If this is the case then a/c can use the ILS (Localizer course) 044 degrees to runway 4 to track to the DAILS intersection.

The boxes with numbers in them give a course to track and the frequency, morris code and approach code
example"
ILS for runway 4 is
044 degrees is the course to be tracked
frequency of 110.50
Approach code is ILGA

The little "fan" shaped thing below the word "DIALS is the NDB called (PETHS) PETHS also forms an additional decent point for a/c arriving to runway 31.

The visual landmarks you see there are used by a/c to see where they are on the path and also provide turning points.

Weather minimims that must be met to fly approach:
Cloud bases are 3000ft or above
Visibility is 5 miles or greater.

Senga

**Matt Molnar** · 2006-03-05, 02:26 PM

Why do the Greenpoint gas tanks still appear on the charts when they've been gone for 5 years?

**N790SW** · 2006-03-05, 03:38 PM

thanks senga i get it now =)

**N790SW** · 2006-03-05, 03:38 PM

do you have any charts for ISP?

**PhilDernerJr** · 2006-03-05, 03:59 PM

You can see them here, listed towards the bottom of the page:

http://www.airnav.com/airport/KISP

**SengaB** · 2006-03-05, 04:52 PM

N790SW
Yes I have ISP charts witch ones do you want to see?
Are those NOS one (Link) phil posted ok?

Phil,
I HATE those NOS charts especialy when flying! The only redeeming quality is that they are cheaper! :)

Gothamspotter,
I am not familiar with those tanks or if they wer taken away. I did just not check out a satellite image and there appears to be 2 tanks still standing and 2 demo "HOLES" where 2 tanks had been. I don't know when the image was taken but maybe there are till there. If not...It always takes a while to get these things out of the database. I guess someone has to call it in. The less significant something is the longer it takes to get it taken out. AT the bottom of the chart it states"twin tanks added" so may there are 2 others.