Security at JFK still doesn't get it.....

[PhilDernerJr]

If Port clearly states that photography IS ALLOWED, then I think that leaves no room for terminals on their property to override that. I could be wrong. Whereas if they leave is open to interpretation, those terminals may be able to make up their own rules.

[Delta777LR]

Yea thats the one thing i wouldnt do is lie about taking pictures. It dont take much to see that they probably saw u taking pictures or etc and they were to come back later. That happened to me last friday eve while i was at the T2-T3 garage when an FJC vehicle pulled up to me and asked if i was taking pictures and i replied that i am taking pictures of the planes and that its just my hobby and he told me that i wasnt suppose to that its illegal and i can get a fine. I did say to him thats not true and i told him that the only place youre not suppose to take pictures at is at the checkpoints, however he said that i was taking pictures with the termac in sight and that i was not suppose to do that so i said ok thats fine and i just left and he left. See i will tell them that im taking pictures and that im trying to enjoy my hobby.


In fact ill say something else, one time i got stopped by NCPD when firestone was still there and he was a nice officer he asking if i was taking pictures of airplanes and i said yes, and asked for my ID and checked me out and he told me that im ok to shoot from there and told told him that i appoligize for the calls, and also said that i rather enjoy my hobby taking pictures of planes then to be in the streets getting into trouble and that im not that kind of person for that kind of thing and he said i got a good point then we shook hands and he told me to enjoy my day and enjoy your photography. Thats the things i would soon like to see at T5 or etc

[NIKV69]

The security officer specifically said that they have a contract with PANYNJ, so I'm guessign that eventhough the garage is owned by the airline (T5 being jetBlue), it seems as though PANYNJ has rule over them or at least gives security the rules to go by...

JetBlue doesn't own anything. The whole airport property is owned by the state of NY which leases it to the Port. JetBlue leases only the terminal from Port and has no say on the parking garage that is Port's call. Who has this security company in place. Now the official Port regulation is photography is allowed in that area. Why isn't this security company made aware of this? This letter Phil speaks of will only be effective if the higher ups in Port make everyone including their officers and security officers of it. Otherwise the encounters will just continue.

Where then Mark's approach would be effective like last UN week. "Show me your policy!" It worked quite well. Port never showed and the security guard left with his tail between his legs.

[gonzalu]

My point, Mark, was that say she then spots you (pun intended) taking pictures... she calls PANYPD and says to them...

"...these fellows have been out here for a while and were surveying the airport, pointing out various features. I asked them if they were taking pictures and they said now. Now I observed them taking pictures... I think they may be up to something. Can you come and check it out?... "

And then your day is made less than great. I will say again, I am on your side. You know this... I just think that if confronted such as you guys were, I would have told her, yes, I have taken some pictures and would like to take some more, of the airplanes landing and taxiing. This way she is left to actually come up with something that is likely, according to everyone, not correct such as this is not allowed or this is allowed etc. But you have stated already you are doing something which isn't illegal. That was my main point. Don't get yourself into a situation where you have to backpedal if pressed against a corner.

How much trouble you think can be made against a person accused of suspicious activity around an airport? No matter how you clear your name, you can still have a hard time if they wanted you to have a hard time.

Sorry if I came across as a contrarian or as if I was your mother, guys It was not my intention. I truly was concerned for your well being and the well being of us all. I was up there later after you guys, for over 5 hours and had no incident... however say we were observed taking pictures, the current security officer could say to us, hey, report states you were not taking pictures when indeed you were... and there goes the kitchen, cause you know I would FIGHT!! seriously, mark, I know how frustrated you have gotten lately at this silly game we play of cat and mouse.. and so am I.

[gonzalu]

And while we are at it, guys... we all want to be treated cordially and professionally. Let us have a policy of absolute professionalism at all costs... That means:

--We respect the person on the other end of the discussion. They are working, whether we like it or not, they have a job. Even if THEY may be doing it wrong or are not doing their best to be professional themselves, we must hold our standards high and treat them with professionalism. That means we do not refer to them with derogatory terms or call them guards etc. I think it goes a long way if we always refer to them as Security Officers. I believe this will elevate us to a higher level and not just kids with a silly hobby.

--No need to raise our voices or to curse or to demean the other person.

--Always carry ID. (Nick, this does NOT mean you can start an argument with me again on the subject )

--Be a diplomat for the hobby. Mark is the poster child for this and I try to imitate him as much as possible.

--Engage and communicate. This will show the security folks we are not hiding anything. Even if we lose a battle or two, it will help win the war...

Add anything else you think can help us have a better chance at winning over the seemingly confusing rules and regulations.

[NIKV69]

(Nick, this does NOT mean you can start an argument with me again on the subject )

Not sure what you mean other than trying to bait me into another useless back and forth. I always carry my ID and show it when asked. Otherwise this is a non-issue.

[Mateo]

JetBlue doesn't own anything. The whole airport property is owned by the state of NY which leases it to the Port. JetBlue leases only the terminal from Port and has no say on the parking garage that is Port's call. Who has this security company in place

The relationship is known as a "master leaseholder," where the Port owns it, then one entity becomes the master leaseholder and controls the terminal as they see fit within the Port's guidelines. This, for example, is why the airlines are the driving forces behind terminal expansions and not the Port themselves. The master leaseholder doesn't even need to be an airline - think of the IAT Group at T4, who are themselves subsidiaries, I think, of one of the large European airport operators (BAA? Schiphol?). Each terminal is free to use the security company of their choice, although I want to say all 6 terminal operators now use FJC.

I didn't think the State has anything to do with JFK. JFK opened well after the Port Authority was established, and as we're all painfully aware, the Port is a Congressionally-chartered bi-state agency accountable to no one.

[NIKV69]

I didn't think the State has anything to do with JFK. JFK opened well after the Port Authority was established, and as we're all painfully aware, the Port is a Congressionally-chartered bi-state agency accountable to no one.

Actually the land is owned by the City of NY and leased to the PA and they are accountable to the Governors of the states of NJ and NY and the legislature.

[Zee71]

Me a poster child! Excellent........I'm looking forward to have my face on milk cartons that span the globe as a spotting diplomat. One day (it may be a dream), I hope to be sitting in my camping chair at T5 with the 500mm on a tripod and enjoying the day with friends, and security telling us......the pizza delivery guy is downstairs......I'll give you a ride down so you can pick it up . Now wouldn't that be awesome!!!!!

[eric8669]

Me a poster child! Excellent........I'm looking forward to have my face on milk cartons that span the globe as a spotting diplomat. One day (it may be a dream), I hope to be sitting in my camping chair at T5 with the 500mm on a tripod and enjoying the day with friends, and security telling us......the pizza delivery guy is downstairs......I'll give you a ride down so you can pick it up . Now wouldn't that be awesome!!!!!

That sounds like the Garage spotting locations at FLL and PHX

[gonzalu]

One day (it may be a dream), I hope to be sitting in my camping chair at T5 with the 500mm on a tripod and enjoying the day with friends, and security telling us......the pizza delivery guy is downstairs......I'll give you a ride down so you can pick it up . Now wouldn't that be awesome!!!!!

NOW we're talking!!

[NIKV69]

That sounds like the Garage spotting locations at FLL and PHX

LAS too. What a dream to spot there. Right next to the elevator. Bathroom. Wifi. Security and police know the planes as much as you do and are friendly. WIN! Now if only they used the 1s more.

[Speedbird1]

On my last visit to try to enter the old PanAm Worldport before possible demolition, I was denied entry as I had no boarding pass. I was more than willing to go through their security but I didn't even get that far. Is that policy still in effect or will I again be denied entry? I was also told that AAL T8/9 as well as the BA/UAL T7 will also deny entry to the departure (2nd) level w/o a boarding pass. Is this still in effect? Hopefully not.

[ANITIX87]

On my last visit to try to enter the old PanAm Worldport before possible demolition, I was denied entry as I had no boarding pass. I was more than willing to go through their security but I didn't even get that far. Is that policy still in effect or will I again be denied entry? I was also told that AAL T8/9 as well as the BA/UAL T7 will also deny entry to the departure (2nd) level w/o a boarding pass. Is this still in effect? Hopefully not.

There isn't an airport in the world that will let you past security without a boarding pass...

However, it's quite easy to get around it. Go to a check-in counter, tell them you're picking up an unaccompanied minor, and they'll issue a "Not For Travel" boarding pass that will get you through security.

TIS

[yankees368]

On my last visit to try to enter the old PanAm Worldport before possible demolition, I was denied entry as I had no boarding pass. I was more than willing to go through their security but I didn't even get that far. Is that policy still in effect or will I again be denied entry? I was also told that AAL T8/9 as well as the BA/UAL T7 will also deny entry to the departure (2nd) level w/o a boarding pass. Is this still in effect? Hopefully not.

Really, dude? This has been the policy world-wide pretty much since 9/11. Where have you been?