Two more Cirrus planes crashed this week

[hiss srq]

So Friday a SR22 went down and now today another one went down in known icing condition over Arizona. Any thoughts?

[Matt Molnar]

GA planes crash pretty frequently, don't they?

[hiss srq]

yes I think some of it has to do with the inexperince of some GA pilots and I think in the Cirrus case it is a mix of things. I think that the Cirrus is too complex for the average pilot really. I question if I would feel confindent really flying that plane personally

[PHL Approach]

The Cirrus is just an all around bad aircraft in even the lightest icing conditions.

[mirrodie]

The Cirrus's main draw seems ot be its parachute system.

BUt since all the other aspects are not great, I'm waiting for when Cessna finally can adopt a similar mechanism. Take a proven aircraft of good reliability and enhance its safety.

[RDU-JFK]

Cessnas don't need a parachute like the Cirrus because Cessnas don't have that nasty habit of spinning.

[JennyPie]

i think it's the sidestick (besides the icing condition crash..) because i have flown in a cirrus a few times...and it's just not natural....i think it takes adjusting to it...i feel more comfortable with the controls in front of me so if you need to you can grab it quickly...and with both hands...i don't like the sidestick. you don't see them in cars now...so why in an airplane?

[moose135]

i think it's the sidestick (besides the icing condition crash..) because i have flown in a cirrus a few times...and it's just not natural....i think it takes adjusting to it...i feel more comfortable with the controls in front of me so if you need to you can grab it quickly...and with both hands...i don't like the sidestick. you don't see them in cars now...so why in an airplane?

It's just something that takes a little getting used to. Airbus has been using a sidestick in the A320, A330, A340 and now the A380, and of course the F-16 has used one for nearly 30 years. Not much different from going between aircraft using a control wheel and a stick, or moving from the left to right seat and switching hands on the controls.

And I would try to avoid grabbing the controls quickly with both hands (well, unless the ground was approaching rapidly) - better to use smooth, steady control inputs. :wink:

[JennyPie]

don't worry babe....i didn't mean i would hold the controls with both hands while cruising :P
it's just a comfort thing for me knowing if i had to, i could put both hands on if the situation called for it, can't do that with a sidestick...therefore, i'm more comfortable with the controls :)
thats all!

[HPNPilot1200]

The main issue I find in Cirrus aircraft is the fact that it is almost too easy to fly in that there is no thought to double check or stay ahead of the airplane for whatever may lie ahead. The aircraft uses that major flaw as its principle advertising technique which attracts many inexperienced, low time pilots who shouldn't even be considering it.

A "simple" or "easy" aircraft doesn't always mean it's a "safe" aircraft. A Cirrus will fly a precision approach for you, but thats only if you set up the autopilot to fly it correctly. And in that, brings up another point. Many Cirrus-owners feel that "hey it has a chute, I just need enough training to meet the insurance requirement and then lets go." The chute itself is in fact used as a joke by the fairly experienced Cirrus-owners in the field. A common joke between those experienced owners goes something like this: "Hey bob, it has a chute let's go!!!" but it is that phrase exactly that is used seriously by inexperienced pilots.

You can never have enough training!! Both the SR20 and SR22 have limited required dual instruction that is required when purchasing one...however, rarely do those new-owners pay for additional training. It's this additional training that the owner-pilots would become much more familiar with the workings of the airplane (despite how cheap it may be in the end).

I don't believe the issue is necessarily the plane or its associated systems, but rather the inexperienced pilots who don't put in the time to learn it as well as they really should.

I hate to make the analogy, but if a car manufacturer comes out with a new product geared towards "beginner" or "less experienced" drivers which gains a lot of press because of the many accidents that occur in that vehicle, would you assume that those statistics are a result of the car or rather the operator?

Every time I hear of another Cirrus crash, I always give out the same: "Sigh..."

Jason

[HPNPilot1200]

Here's a letter Alan Klapmeier recently sent out to owners:


October 27, 2006


Dear Cirrus Owners,

As you may know, there have recently been several fatal accidents involving Cirrus aircraft. We at Cirrus are deeply saddened by these tragedies, and we offer our sincere condolences to those who have lost family and loved ones as a result of these accidents. We know you all share these sentiments

Historically, weather has been one of the most significant risk factors affecting general aviation. This is particularly true now when the onset of winter weather brings lower ceilings and visibilities, increased likelihood of icing conditions as well as increased night flying. We, as prudent pilots, must adjust our decision making to the new season.

Cirrus offers several tools to help reduce the risks associated with adverse weather accidents - these include:
• Airplane systems such as weather data link graphics and terrain awareness and warning system.
• Training on risk management, including setting personal weather minimums.
• Cirrus’ AFM, training materials, and website containing numerous relevant safety resources.

You can also find other resources to help you fly safely at the Cirrus Owners and Pilots Association (COPA) website cirruspilots.org

We each need to make a personal commitment to flying more safely. As a Cirrus pilot I intend to take the following steps today:

• Review the Envelope of Safety at cirruslink.com/mycirrus
• Review my personal weather minimum
• Review winter weather flying techniques, including reviewing the AFM sections on the TKS system if it is installed
• Review methods of getting the best weather information before flying and how to use available in flight weather information to complete my trip safely.
• Review all my alternatives while flying.

As Cirrus pilots, we owe ourselves, our passengers, and our families a professional approach to operating our airplanes. More than anything else, this means safety. It means that we are proficient at risk management, information management, and aircraft automation management – all the things that Cirrus transition and recurrent training are intended to support.

Please take advantage of the resources that Cirrus and COPA have provided to you to enable you to fly at the highest level of safety. Together we must increase our continued focus on safety. Please think about safety!

Alan Klapmeier
Cirrus Design Co-Founder & CEO