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Thread: Asiana 777 Crashes at SFO

  1. #61
    Senior Member RomNYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by megatop412 View Post
    Not unless they're paid professionals they don't. In the heat of the moment, when sh*t is going down and your hands are shaking, I would consider myself lucky that I could even get my phone in video mode, let alone shoot straight.
    You know, in the heat of the moment, I wouldn't even THINK of grabbing my camera. But it seems that it is just me around here/anywhere nowadays. Oh well...

  2. #62
    Moderator USAF Pilot 07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinny Ohare View Post
    Manny the more I hear about this, the more I think it could be a small combination of things. Just not one thing, it just doesn't make sense.
    In most aircraft mishaps there's always a combination or "chain of events" that ultimately lead to the mishap. It's why a much greater emphasis has been placed on CRM in the past few decades and why we talk about getting all crew-members involved - especially during critical phases of flight - you never know who may be the one to see something off and speak up and break that chain of events. It will be interesting to see whether all 4 pilots were up front for the approach and landing, or whether it was just the two senior guys up there.

    In this case, there are several facts we know of (without even knowing the full contents of the CVR/FDR). To list a few:
    1) An approach into a major airport surrounded by very busy airspace.
    2) ILS glideslope and PAPIs both out of service.
    3) A veteran pilot with something like 10,000 total hours but very new to the 777 (reports say it was his first landing ever in it).
    4) Visual perception issues associated with shooting an approach completely over water to a runway surrounded by land (and possible perception issues from a pilot perspective based on previous aircraft flown).
    5) A call for "more power" on very short final.
    6) Stick shaker actuation with airspeed speed "well below" Vapp.
    7) Both throttles left in the idle position.
    8) Very favorable weather conditions.

    The question is, how did they end up in the situation they got into? Not one of these factors alone should have caused them to do so.

    Was it due to some other or outside factor we don't yet know about?

    A bad landing is usually the result of a bad and/or unstable approach. How was this crew's approach? Were they behind the aircraft at all? Were they slammed dunked into the airport or given ample space and time to establish a normal approach? Were they established on a 3* glideslope configured for landing at 1,000'AGL? At 500'AGL? If not, what did they look like? Was there some other factor (internally or externally) distracting them from flying the airplane and focusing on the approach? What kind of automation were they using to fly the approach? Was it functioning properly? I don't know the 777 systems, but I assume they would have been able to load a visual approach into the FMS which would have given them some type of glidepath indication assuming the correct altimeter setting was inserted. Was this done? If not were they backing up the visual approach with any other approach (i.e. GPS)?

    At what point during the approach the autothrottles were disengaged?
    Sometimes the over-reliance on automated aircraft systems leads to a poorer crosscheck or complete forgetfulness of the associated system. It can be very easy to disengage the autothrottles and then get sidetracked with something else - whether it be inside or outside of the cockpit - and completely forget about them, especially since for almost the entirety of the flight they are on, doing theirs (and your) job with little thought required.

    These are just some of the questions I would like to know the answer to before crucifying the pilots and jumping to broad and somewhat unfounded conclusions like many news sources have done.

    I have my personal theory on what caused them to get into the situation they did (along with every other pilot, flightsim expert and person that stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night) but we will see what the data and NTSB reveal in the days and months to come.

    While, I'm saddened two people lost their lives in this incident and so many more injured both mentally and physically for life, I'm very grateful so many were able to survive.
    Last edited by USAF Pilot 07; 07-08-2013 at 11:11 PM.

  3. #63
    Senior Member RomNYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAF Pilot 07 View Post
    While, I'm saddened two people lost their lives in this incident and so many more injured both mentally and physically for life, I'm very grateful so many were able to survive.
    Which is exactly why I don't understand all the numerous "this is a sad day for aviation" comments I have heard all over the place since this happened. ONLY two people lost their lives, one is presumably not even a result of the crash. What I've seen online, from both avgeeks and avnoobs, sometimes sounded like the loss of the aircraft was sadder than everything else. Planes are safer than ever before, can we at least enjoy that?

  4. #64
    Senior Member Vinny Ohare's Avatar
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    Thanks for such a detailed post!

  5. #65
    Senior Member NIKV69's Avatar
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    Watching the presser. I believe Chair Hersman said the Auto Throttles were armed.
    'My idea of a good picture is one that's in focus and of a famous person doing something unfamous.' Andy Warhol

  6. #66
    Senior Member yankees368's Avatar
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    Most recent info from today's update: http://www.nycaviation.com/2013/07/b.../#.UdybkW12mOB
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  7. #67
    Moderator USAF Pilot 07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yankees368 View Post
    Most recent info from today's update: http://www.nycaviation.com/2013/07/b.../#.UdybkW12mOB
    Interesting info; will be interesting to see if the CVR/FDR back up the crew's account. Also, it appears the PAPIs were operational (unlike I first thought was reported).

    I'm curious as to whether or not the autothrottles were in fact engaged (the crew reports they were "armed").. I would imagine the 777 has some sort of speed protection associated with the AT that wouldn't allow airspeed to decrease below Vmm (or Vapp in this case)... I think my theory is becoming more and more plausible.

  8. #68
    Senior Member emshighway's Avatar
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    Someone Pranked San Francisco TV Station Into Reporting Fabricated Names Of Asiana Pilots

    A local Fox affiliate, the San Francisco powerhouse station KTVU, is dealing with the fallout of a major error on Friday. During their noon broadcast, a report on the deadly Asiana Airlines crash took a turn for the unintentionally offensive when they broadcast the names of pilots in charge of that flight. The mangled Asian-sounding names were, in fact, thinly-disguised expletives mocking the sentiments expressed by the crash victims and their families.

    The supposed names of the crash victims broadcast on KTVU included “Sum Ting Wong,” “Ho Lee Fuk,” and “Bang Ding Ow.”

    A KTVU anchor later apologized for the error. She said that the names were inaccurate in spite of the fact that a National Transpiration Safety Board spokesperson confirming them.
    "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' "
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  9. #69
    Senior Member Derf's Avatar
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    A third person has died from injuries sustained in last week's crash of Asiana Airlines Flight 214

    CNN


    The three most common expressions in aviation are, "Why is it doing that?", "Where are we?" and "Oh Crap".

  10. #70
    Senior Member 727C47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RomNYC View Post
    Which is exactly why I don't understand all the numerous "this is a sad day for aviation" comments I have heard all over the place since this happened. ONLY two people lost their lives, one is presumably not even a result of the crash. What I've seen online, from both avgeeks and avnoobs, sometimes sounded like the loss of the aircraft was sadder than everything else. Planes are safer than ever before, can we at least enjoy that?
    even one loss is too much, this was a tragedy
    The beehive hummm of the JT9D and GE CF680C2,the thunder of the JT8D-17,the rumble of the PW1830 and the high ,thin whine of the PW 545A are all music to my ears!

  11. #71
    Senior Member Derf's Avatar
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    A very good video
    LINK
    The three most common expressions in aviation are, "Why is it doing that?", "Where are we?" and "Oh Crap".

  12. #72
    Senior Member Zee71's Avatar
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    Very good animation
    Mark
    Queens, NY

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