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Thread: American Airlines Crash at Kingston Jamaica

  1. #61
    NLovis
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    Re: American Airlines Crash at Kingston Jamaica

    [quote=AA 777]
    Quote Originally Posted by NLovis
    Quote Originally Posted by "Phil D.":3b99hosm
    I'd like a source for the 738 = 2-3 MD80 thing.
    Read it on wikipedia over the summer. It also said they were dropping their A300's and not replacing them with anything. That happened exact to the last word. Those planes are stored somewhere currently. It also said every 2-3 MD-80. This is AA's way of scalling back. Quite clever if you ask me. They announce the replacement but dont say they are replacing every single plane. Its beena ccurate as well cause i've been watching the number on planes they have get smaller and smaller. Increasing seat capacity and decreasing the number of flights. Thats smart money sense to me. If you want to look go to wikipedia and type in American Airlines.
    First off, quoting Wikipedia can be trouble on a good day. Sure they retired the A300 on schedule, but that was publicly known as indicated by the many press releases issued by AA themselves.

    How have you been watching the number of planes they have get smaller and smaller? Just curious what your using for a source? IIRC, the 737's were being replaced one for one with S80's with the current fuel prices. If the fuel prices increased to levels seen a year or two ago they would park 80s at a faster rate. Just the opposite if the fuel stays "cheap" they may hang on to more 80's and still take delivery of 737's. AA currently has 603 aircraft in service (accounts for 3DK as a write off) and that number has been hovering around 600-610 as the 737's have been delivered. From what I have seen the S80's have not been replaced on a 3-1 basis with 737s

    As far as what has to be done to pick up the slack for 3DK, its really quite simple. If they want to keep up the slack they will just keep a MD80 around a little longer and and use that S80 on a domestic old config 737 route. Right now the new 737s are domestic only, but that will change in a year or so.[/quote:3b99hosm]
    while true wiki isnt too accurare. sometimes it is depending on the person who submits the info. Last i checked there were 613 aircraft in AA's fleet. Its been a month so overall they have grounded 10 more aircraft then they have recieved. while true the rate depends on fuel prices I think AA is trying to get rid of them ASAP so they dont have to spend that much on fuel when prices jump again. A 2-1 ratio sounds about right to me

  2. #62
    Administrator PhilDernerJr's Avatar
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    Re: American Airlines Crash at Kingston Jamaica

    May I ask what you aviation/airline experience is?
    Email me anytime at [email protected].

  3. #63
    Senior Member SengaB's Avatar
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    Re: American Airlines Crash at Kingston Jamaica

    Just came across this shot of N977AN from one of my MIA trip in 2008.


    Senga

  4. #64
    NLovis
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    Re: American Airlines Crash at Kingston Jamaica

    wow thats a nice shot. phil if ur talking to me not much. I've been around for awhile but job wise not much. I jused to jead to JFK with my father and learn bout the planes from him since hes an Avionics Mech for 30+ years but mostly now i'm working.

  5. #65
    Administrator PhilDernerJr's Avatar
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    Re: American Airlines Crash at Kingston Jamaica

    I went through my own collection and I, too, have a N977AN shot!

    Email me anytime at [email protected].

  6. #66
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    Re: American Airlines Crash at Kingston Jamaica

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil D.
    I went through my own collection and I, too, have a N977AN shot!

    Rejected...oversharpened ;)

  7. #67
    Administrator PhilDernerJr's Avatar
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    Re: American Airlines Crash at Kingston Jamaica

    No wonder people hate screeners.
    Email me anytime at [email protected].

  8. #68
    Senior Member JHNA57's Avatar
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    Re: American Airlines Crash at Kingston Jamaica

    KIN's runway is 8,900 feet....that's almost 2,000 more than LGA,
    A bit off topic I know but........ April 1987, landed here after a 20 min flight from Montego Bay in an Aer-Lingus 747 leased by Air Jamaica. We were returning from our honeymoon and continued on to JFK after this short stopover.

  9. #69
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    Re: American Airlines Crash at Kingston Jamaica

    here's a video of a small Citation Business Jet lands in a 15Kt down wind during the day and with just a light rain, grooved I might add. Just to give you an idea of what Flight 331 was up against.
    C80grd2C ... re=related

  10. #70
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    Re: American Airlines Crash at Kingston Jamaica

    Update on my video link post of the Citation skidding of end of runway. This happened on May of 05 at Bader Field Airport NJ. It's a small municipal airport and doesn't accept jet's. The runway that this jet was trying to land on was runway 11. That runway is barely 3,000 ft. and not grooved although grooving in this scenario was irrelevant. The plane was a Cessna Citation Jet 525A registered to OY-JET. Apparently there was no emergency and the pilot just figured he could land there down wind. If you watch the end of the video you will see how much of a "cowboy" this guy was. He actually try's to power the jet, in the water, to shore. This while there are people in small row boats very nearby trying to help. He could of easily killed one of them. Wow. This guy gives all of us a bad name. Anyway, point being, I think we all underestimate the power of wind direction and the differentiating effects it has aircraft of all sizes.

  11. #71
    Moderator mirrodie's Avatar
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    Re: American Airlines Crash at Kingston Jamaica

    Whenever events like this happens the blue site is really frustrating because you have to read thru so much crap to find the vital and interesting updates. But here their where timely updates and great selection of daylight photos. And it did not take me forever to find it.
    You know, its amazing how one story quickly gets forgotten when something new pops up (the DL bomb scare).

    Ron, I can see your frustration. Phil and Matt do a great job. However, I think what also helps is that there are less users here and thus there is less crap to weed through. Its inevitable that as more users post on NYCA, there is more to weed through to get the facts, especially when its fresh news and the facts are not well known yet.

    Since those approach lights were not functional, I am hopeful to see that pilot error is a less likely cause.
    And I, I took the path less traveled by
    and that has made all the difference......yet...
    I have a feeling a handle of people are going to be very interested in what I post in the near future.

    http://www.jetphotos.net/showphotos.php?userid=187

  12. #72
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    Re: American Airlines Crash at Kingston Jamaica

    Quote Originally Posted by mirrodie
    Whenever events like this happens the blue site is really frustrating because you have to read thru so much crap to find the vital and interesting updates. But here their where timely updates and great selection of daylight photos. And it did not take me forever to find it.
    You know, its amazing how one story quickly gets forgotten when something new pops up (the DL bomb scare).

    Ron, I can see your frustration. Phil and Matt do a great job. However, I think what also helps is that there are less users here and thus there is less crap to weed through. Its inevitable that as more users post on NYCA, there is more to weed through to get the facts, especially when its fresh news and the facts are not well known yet.

    Since those approach lights were not functional, I am hopeful to see that pilot error is a less likely cause.
    I'm still looking for more clarification on the approach light topic... it appears only approach side of the runway has an ILS and ALS... I do see a glideslope...but I can't make out the localizer antennas...

  13. #73
    Moderator mirrodie's Avatar
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    Re: American Airlines Crash at Kingston Jamaica

    Neither could the AA crew. Ouch. kidding.

    OK, so can jou 'splain to me what and there the ILS, ALS and etc are?
    And I, I took the path less traveled by
    and that has made all the difference......yet...
    I have a feeling a handle of people are going to be very interested in what I post in the near future.

    http://www.jetphotos.net/showphotos.php?userid=187

  14. #74
    Administrator PhilDernerJr's Avatar
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    Re: American Airlines Crash at Kingston Jamaica

    ILS (instrument landing system)is the approach equipment that provides the aircraft with both localizer and glidescope approach....both vertical and horizontal alignment assitance.

    ALS is approach lighting system, meaning simply the lights at the beginning of the runway with vary depending on runway and airport requirements.
    Email me anytime at [email protected].

  15. #75
    Moderator USAF Pilot 07's Avatar
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    Re: American Airlines Crash at Kingston Jamaica

    Quote Originally Posted by daneyd
    here's a video of a small Citation Business Jet lands in a 15Kt down wind during the day and with just a light rain, grooved I might add. Just to give you an idea of what Flight 331 was up against.
    C80grd2C ... re=related

    This video has nothing in common with this situation except for the fact that there was a tailwind present and the runway was wet. The pilot in this video never had anything close to the landing distance required to land at this field (it was not certified for jet use), was I believe was told several times by ATC that it was not certified for jet use. Also, I believe the findings also included his approach speed was way above what it should have been even with the tailwind. The reason this crash was caught on video is because when people found out some dude was going to land a jet at that airport, they all knew he was crazy and that something bad would probably ensue, so they grabbed their video cameras to get it on tape.

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