Southwest Nose Gear Up Landing at LGA

[Gerard]

Happened around 5:45, Flight 345 from Nashville landed on LGa Runway 4 nose gear up. LGA shutdown, no injuries reported, passengers still on plane.
CNN having coverage areound the Royal Baby Boy!! :biggrin:

[NYCA News]

NYCAviation:

Southwest Boeing 737 Involved In Nose Gear Incident at LGA (http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/nycaviation/~3/Va7AzKlLps4/)

A clearer picture here @NYCAviation @SouthwestAir pic.twitter.com/xzIMS6pjcA — shimmerskies
[Click to Read Full Article (http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/nycaviation/~3/Va7AzKlLps4/)]

[Delta777LR]

Went out to get a few dhots tonight!! Boy that was ugly. Also confirmed that 11 were injured

http://www.nycaviation.com/hosting/017.jpg

http://www.nycaviation.com/hosting/030.jpg

[Gerard]

Channel 4/NBC was hanging out at Planeview Park doing stories and Live Feed at 7 last night!!

[Gerard]

Quick question to the guys with ATC knowledge here!! What happens to all the aircraft that were lined up to land behind this plane? Can someone take us inside the ATC? It must be crazy with everyone on deck working to keep all the planes safe and get them landed someone else. This isnt like weather where you have some time to make the diversions. This is "HOLY CRAP" time!! I was thinking about this when the Asiana crashed but our airspace a little more crazy than SFO.
Thanks.

[emshighway]

NTSB pic of electronics bay of Southwest 737 at LGA penetrated by landing gear. Only right axle attached.

https://twitter.com/NTSB/status/359794743590412288/photo/1 (https://twitter.com/NTSB/status/359794743590412288/photo/1)


NTSB investigating accident involving nose-gear collapse of SWA 737 at LGA. Photo after evacuation.
https://twitter.com/NTSB/status/359780711097569281/photo/1 (https://twitter.com/NTSB/status/359780711097569281/photo/1)

[Vinny Ohare]

I would like to know also Gerard. Especially in this case as there are surrounding airports so close.

[RomNYC]

Quick question to the guys with ATC knowledge here!! What happens to all the aircraft that were lined up to land behind this plane? Can someone take us inside the ATC? It must be crazy with everyone on deck working to keep all the planes safe and get them landed someone else. This isnt like weather where you have some time to make the diversions. This is "HOLY CRAP" time!! I was thinking about this when the Asiana crashed but our airspace a little more crazy than SFO.
Thanks.

This might give you an idea: http://www.nycaviation.com/newspage/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/SWA345.mp3

[clear_prop]

Quick question to the guys with ATC knowledge here!! What happens to all the aircraft that were lined up to land behind this plane? Can someone take us inside the ATC? It must be crazy with everyone on deck working to keep all the planes safe and get them landed someone else. This isnt like weather where you have some time to make the diversions. This is "HOLY CRAP" time!! I was thinking about this when the Asiana crashed but our airspace a little more crazy than SFO.
Thanks.

You hear ATC sending the planes on Tower Freq around and passing them back to Approach on the liveatc clips. The ones still on Approach just get vectored as needed. Tower usually only has a few planes to deal with, so it is high stress dealing with ARFF and sending planes around, but it is over pretty quickly. For Approach, it isn't too bad since departures are stopped, so they just have deal with where to put the arrivals that can't land.

[Vinny Ohare]

So basically everyone gets a go around for starters and goes to 2000 feet? Sorry I am not use to listening to the ATC. Thanks for that link. It was quick as they only have to handle about 4 or 5 on approach.

[Speedbird1]

It seems that only the flight directly behind the SWA 737 had to do a missed approach. Flight AAL 732 from DFW was told to go eastward towards Dix Hills and she was put into the arrival sequence at JFK's 22L where she arrived at 1801. The other flights into LGA probably went either to JFK or EWR. I also was wondering the same thing. Years ago, when I was a novice spotter, I saw an aircraft approach 2 different runways at JFK for landing. I later learned that the first approach was missed, so the aircraft, I think a Concorde, went around. It appeared that it had landed twice!

[Gerard]

Thanks guys!!:smile:

[PhilDernerJr]

So basically everyone gets a go around for starters and goes to 2000 feet? Sorry I am not use to listening to the ATC. Thanks for that link. It was quick as they only have to handle about 4 or 5 on approach.

The initial go around plan for that approach is probably to climb to 2,000ft. The aircraft will then get handed off to NY Approach/Center/Departure and then be told what to do next. In this situation, the aircraft were probably sent in a couple different directions, maybe entered a holding pattern, and then diverted to other airports as per the airline's preference/ability.

[PhilDernerJr]

I'm just wondering what caused them to land nose-first.

[moose135]

I'm just wondering what caused them to land nose-first.
Stick actuator malfunction?
;-)

[emshighway]

July 25, 2013
The National Transportation Safety Board today released factual information from the July 22 accident involving a Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-700 landing at New York’s LaGuardia Airport. The airplane’s front landing gear collapsed on landing.

• Evidence from video and other sources is consistent with the nose-gear making contact with the runway before the main landing gear.

• The flight data recorder on the airplane recorded 1,000 parameters and contained approximately 27 hours of recorded data, including the entire flight from Nashville to New York.

• The cockpit voice recorder contains a two-hour recording of excellent quality that captures the entire flight from Nashville to New York and the accident landing sequence.

• Flaps were set from 30 to 40 degrees about 56 seconds prior to touchdown.

• Altitude was about 32 feet, airspeed was about 134 knots, and pitch attitude was about 2 degrees nose-up approximately 4 seconds prior touchdown.

• At touchdown, the airspeed was approximately 133 knots and the aircraft was pitched down approximately 3 degrees.

• After touchdown, the aircraft came to a stop within approximately 19 seconds.

• A cockpit voice recorder group will convene tomorrow at NTSB laboratories in Washington to transcribe the relevant portion of the accident flight.

[PhilDernerJr]

I feel like the pilot just decided to put the nose down to "plant it" a little early.

[USAF Pilot 07]

I'm just wondering what caused them to land nose-first.

The ground.... :cool:

[Delta777LR]

If that was the case, what gaved the pilots the idea to attempt nose first. Looks like a few errors on WN345. One for sure they should have noticed if all 3 indicator landing gear lights were not locked. in fact that is part of the landing checklist. If they did noticed that there was a light showing that it was not on. they should have reported the tower while they had the chance. Also N753SW was recently in maintenance just a week ago. My belief of this whole incident was human error

[PhilDernerJr]

Locked gear doesn't have much to do with it. The nosegear isn't designed to take the whole landing like this one did. I was amazed when I first saw it.

[jhickman]

I was sitting aboard a United 757 waiting to takeoff when this happened. Needless to say my plane never left. I'm just happy there were no serious injuries.

[Delta777LR]

I was sitting aboard a United 757 waiting to takeoff when this happened. Needless to say my plane never left. I'm just happy there were no serious injuries.

oh that was your plane I was looking at from Planeview.. ok. I dont usually hear incidents like WN345 that would have serious injuries now a days but its the fact on how you sly off the inflatable slides. I saw a

[jhickman]

Yes sir. I was sitting on the LEFT side of the plane and the incident was to our RIGHT. A passenger who had a window seat on the right saw it happen and turned to me and said. "Well, looks like this plane is going nowhere anytime soon!". We had already been on the plane for almost 2 hours because of rough weather to the west of New York. When it was all said and done, we were on the plane for just a shade under 4 hours. The United Captain and flight crew did an AMAZING job of keeping us informed and comfortable. I have no complaints. These things happen.

[stratoduck]

According to the NTSB, flaps 40 (degrees) were selected at 1 minute prior to landing. Flaps 30 is used for most landings, with 40 used on shorter runways and autoland (Cat II and III). This model 737 with flaps 40 will approach at about 135 knots and level attitude. The landing flare will increase the pitch to about 2-3 degrees nose up. With this flap setting there is little float as any excess airspeed is quickly dissipated from the drag of the flaps.

The aircraft touched down with a 3 degree nose down pitch, and the airspeed was in or very near the proper range.

If there was some sort of wind shear or wake turbulence that would cause the nose to drop, it would have likely have been indicated by an airspeed lower than what was reported by the NTSB. Pilots will inherently pull back if the nose is dropping, especially near the runway, and on the 737 there is plenty of elevator authority to do this under normal circumstances.

[moose135]

From Newsday:


The National Transportation Safety Board says the captain of the Southwest Airlines plane that landed on a collapsing nose gear at New York's LaGuardia Airport took control from the first officer just 400 feet from the ground.

The NTSB says the captain was monitoring the landing and suddenly took over from the plane's first officer.

Full story:
http://www.newsday.com/news/new-york/ntsb-captain-took-control-before-southwest-landing-accident-at-laguardia-airport-1.5843037

[moose135]

After an internal investigation, Southwest has fired the captain and ordered additional training for the first officer...


Southwest Airlines Co. said it fired the captain who was at the controls of a plane that landed nose first at New York’s LaGuardia Airport in July, injuring nine people and snarling air traffic for hours. The captain, a Southwest pilot for 13 years, took control from the first officer just before the Boeing Co. 737 hit the runway, U.S. investigators said in August.

Dallas-based Southwest ordered the first officer to undergo more training, an airline spokeswoman, Linda Rutherford, said in an e-mail today. Southwest acted after completing its investigation into the July 22 accident, Rutherford said. The U.S. National Transportation Safety Board, which is conducting its own inquiry, previously said it found no evidence of a mechanical failure.
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2013-10-02/southwest-dismisses-captain-over-nose-first-landing-at-laguardia

[PhilDernerJr]

Sounds like the right course of action. Sounded like pilot error from beginning to end.

[Delta777LR]

I had that feeling to begin with. Also the fact that the Captain took controls at the last second which still made no sense what so ever. As the first officer was at the controls during approach, things seemed to be routine until the captain took immediate control at the last second. im very sure if that didnt happened, the accident would not occur. Sorry to say but im glad the captain got what was deserve

[megatop412]

There is something we aren't being told here. Unless I missed it no one is saying why the pilot took over at the last second. A seasoned pilot, with years of experience, does something stupid like that? Nah. Until that gets cleared up the jury is still out for me

[moose135]

No, there has been no statement on why the pilot took over control. I'm sure the CVR tape, plus interviews with the two crew members, plus the jump seater, shed light on that. We won't see most of that until the NTSB report is released, but I'm sure WN has listened to the tapes and interviewed all involved, and feel comfortable taking the action they did at the time they did.