Healthcare Stance

[PhilDernerJr]

Most of my thoughts about today's Supreme Court decision aren't about the law itself, but how people respond to it.

Many Republicans say that they are moving to Canada...ironic because they have universal healthcare there.

Romney is against it...yet it is what his exact idea was, that he successfully instituted in Massachusetts. But now because a Democrat did it nationally, it's bad.

The politics are painful to me. I know that if the Repubs came up with it, that the Dems would be acting the same way.

[MarkLawrence]

The politics are painful to me. I know that if the Repubs came up with it, that the Dems would be acting the same way.

Amen!!!!

[jerslice]

I welcome the outcome as a valuable step toward inevitably having a single-payer system, but I haven't read through the decision yet. Early indications that the majority hung their hat on the penalty being construed as a tax that can therefore be levied and regulated by Congress were definitely interesting - especially since I found the argument that Congress has a compelling interest in regulating this particular variety of commerce due to the obvious interconnectedness of people in terms of health and effecting one anothers health outcomes to be compelling in itself.

The spin and politics of it are ridiculous - it has successfully clouded legit and objective ability to critique the merits & faults of the legislation itself.

[gonzalu]

I just want Mom and Dad to be able to go to the doctor without fear of who they will pay for it (so they don't now)

In my country of origin, they (and I) never worried about getting healthcare. Once you have something you take for granted suddenly taken away, it feels awful. Our quality of healthcare in the US is second to none, but it is out of reach for many. I don't mean emergency care, but preventive care.

Politics are what make this country THIS COUNTRY. So I will not argue pro or against. We have to take it however it comes. Sometimes we get what we want, sometimes the other guy gets it. And we get to vote. Not many places in this blue sphere you can claim that every four years, we peacefully get to chose our leader and transition of power is typically a boring affair for most citizens. When was the last time you feared riots because of a presidential election?

[mirrodie]

I welcome the outcome as a valuable step toward inevitably having a single-payer system,
.


Who is the payer, exactly? The governement? I'm not following.


In any event, all politics aside, piece by piece our freedoms are being stripped away. It is now law that I pay for healthcare? Really? Will it soon be law that I have solar panels? That I eat apples once a week? Where does it end??

[moose135]

In any event, all politics aside, piece by piece our freedoms are being stripped away. It is now law that I pay for healthcare? Really?
Currently, if you opt out of health insurance, and get sick or injured and can't pay for your treatment, I end up paying for it, either through higher insurance premiums or higher taxes if you go to a public hospital. Don't want health insurance? Either have enough in a health savings account to cover your care, or wear one of those medic-alert tags, so if you get hit by a bus, the paramedics will leave you on the side of the road to die, because without insurance, I get stuck paying for your treatment...

[Mattimus]

piece by piece our freedoms are being stripped away. It is now law that I pay for healthcare? Really? Will it soon be law that I have solar panels? That I eat apples once a week? Where does it end??

totally agree with that, government is getting bigger and more intrusive every day. The solution to most of our problems is to reduce the role of government, not increase it.

There's nothing affordable about the "affordable healthcare act", the law in its current state is just going to result in higher premiums, lower quality of care, and more unsustainable debt.

[moose135]

There's nothing affordable about the "affordable healthcare act", the law in its current state is just going to result in higher premiums, lower quality of care, and more unsustainable debt.
Health insurance companies were well on their way to doing that already...

[mirrodie]

Don't want health insurance? Either have enough in a health savings account to cover your care, or wear one of those medic-alert tags, so if you get hit by a bus, the paramedics will leave you on the side of the road to die, because without insurance, I get stuck paying for your treatment...

john, both before and after Bamacare, you and I get stuck paying for that treatment. Its just that now, we've entitled an even larger segment of hte population to do it. That already happens everyday I see a medicaid patient on welfare, but who drove themselves to the office in a BMW and has an iPhone....

[gonzalu]

Mario,

What would you offer as an alternative solution to the problem that too many in the middle (not so poor, not so rich) are without any form of access to preventive care? Or that are afraid of even emergency care for fear of the costs?

[PhilDernerJr]

Manny outlines a huge part of the problem.

[mirrodie]

Mario,

A---What would you offer as an alternative solution to the problem that too many in the middle (not so poor, not so rich) are without any form of access to preventive care?

B----Or that are afraid of even emergency care for fear of the costs?


A.....First, you have to define terms: What falls under the umbrella of preventative care? And what does it cost yearly?

B.....discounts. At the end of the day, its a business. If we have a truly indigent patient come to our office for emergent medical eyecare, shouldnt we be allowed to work it out with them?


Not saying there wasnt a problem, but is this the clear answer? having been the uninsured student and now the doctor, I see both sides.

[megatop412]

If I recall correctly, we never actually elected Dubya. How did we end up with a voting system in which the person with the majority of the POPULAR vote(you and me) ended up not being president? We have the electoral college system to thank for that. And then we had to suffer the ramifications of that ROYAL screw-up for 4 more years. So, I have lost faith that my government 'represents' my interests.

No Manny, I do not want to move to Canada, or Europe. Like you I believe our quality of life is best here. But, when you look at something like, say, campaign financing and see the direct lines between corporate/elitist donors and their 'puppets', or that idiot Grover Norquist and his little 'list' he is blackmailing people with, you can understand where I'm coming from. In this country now, the deeper your pockets, the less disenfranchised you are.

Phil I know you were asking specifically about the healthcare decision, but I feel these are connected issues.

[PhilDernerJr]

My initial point was that, regardless of the details of the plan, the arguments laid out have little to do with the details, and 100% to do with political bickering.

[Matt Molnar]

I think the decision all but guarantees a Mitt Romney victory in November. Republicans are already more enraged than ever. Democrats will become complacent thinking they have it in the bag.

[NIKV69]

the electoral college system



It still is the best way to pick a president. If we went to popular vote California would pick our leader and the small and less populated states would have no say.


The affordable care act was billed as a way to lower the cost of health care and give it to everyone. When it really was wealth redistribution. Instead of tackling the high cost of health care by doing things like letting people go over state lines they just changed the people who are paying for it. I think most of the bill had some good things but the mandate makes it toxic.

This is just going to be another drain on an already fragile economy. With unemployment likely to spike now since companies will not hire until they see who wins in November.

Also, "real" health care reform can never be achieved without TORT reform. Lowering health care costs can not be achieved until this happens.

[PhilDernerJr]

I'm not understand the mandate. It's $95 a YEAR in your TAXES if you don't have insurance, right? That's not too bad to me, especially if I'm making enough money to file taxes. For those too poor for insurance, they are probably too poor to pay taxes too and it won't be a huge deal.

We'll see if it truly does lower healthcare costs for the rest of us, though.

[NIKV69]

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/06/health-care-law-mandate-tax-how-much-is-it/

[Mattimus]

there's also a ton of other taxes in there, its not just one small penalty.
http://www.atr.org/full-list-obamacare-tax-hikes-listed-a7010

[PhilDernerJr]

Mattimus, your link has a lot of bias and isn't even clear where they get their info from.

Nick, that's good info, but the exemptions need to clarified, because if people with a good amount of money are being charged a few hundred bucks a year, then it's not as big of a deal. They are trying to make it out to be as though people with only $4 to their name are going to be charged $1k, but I don't think that'll be happening.

[Mattimus]

Mattimus, your link has a lot of bias and isn't even clear where they get their info from.

Its all in the bill, if you really want to read the whole 2500+ pages of it, http://www.healthcare.gov/law/full/ and go down to certified full text versions. I assume the revenue amounts that they had listed are just estimates , but each of those taxes or whatever you want to call them is in there.

[mirrodie]

I doubt anyone, ANYONE has actually read the 2500 page bill.

HOw can a country that used to guarantee freedoms now force what an individual chooses to buy?????

I was asked a few days ago:

"What would you offer as an alternative solution to the problem that too many in the middle (not so poor, not so rich) are without any form of access to preventive care?"

-Easy. Allow them to talk to their doctors and work it out. Negotiate fees with your doctor directly. Oh wait, apparently its illegal for a doctor to charge an insurance company different fees that it would a patient...Lets start by playing with that law...

"Or that are afraid of even emergency care for fear of the costs?" Again, work it out directly.


Want to pass meaningful legislation and lower healthcare costs?

-Put an end to frivolous lawsuits started by ambulance chasers that increase malpractice premiums.

-Medicaid should have fees incorporated. $10 fee per visit.

-preventive care starts with right choices.


You know, I would love for there to be universal healthcare. But my folks and I didn't come from silver spoons. WE worked our asses off and I still do. Yet its amazing that as I am now furthering in my career, the more I make, the more the government and its "impoverished children' want their hands in our pockets. Everyday I encounter abuses to the welfare system from patrons of the welfare system. These people claim welfare and yet have things and buy things that I do not have. How is it they can afford these things? Its abusive.....and I truly see Obamacare as an extension of the MD system.

A tale of 2 patients:

one has no insurance, always pays cash, runs 4 businesses (dealing with exotic dance), employs over 100 staff;

one is on medicaid, lives in a gated community, and has a collectible car collection, has broken or lost his glasses 4 timesin the last 12 months but knows he is covered so gets a new pair of glasses each time. (You paid for them)

Who above helped their country most?

Manny, I am too young and naive to claim to understand it all. But my eyes see a lot.
I live a fairly conservative (read: non-wasteful) lifestyle and try to do right by others. Yet in my business, I have to watch my back because either on EOBs or on the radio, you hear ads about, "If you think your doctor is committing fraud, call XXX...." Yet who do WE call when we see DAILY abuses to the current welfare system in place???

Adding a new universal system is only destined to add more cost and complexity.

[PhilDernerJr]

Mario is so very right about the problems he stated....and those are just SOME of the problems.

I am FOR universal healthcare...but we need many thigns in place to prevent abuse and to prevent insurance companies from raping us....which has been happening hardcore. I even have a couple doctors that abuse the system and milk my own insurance (not my eye doc of course! ;) )

[Matt Molnar]

There's always going to be fraud whether the gov't is involved or not.

For what it's worth, while there are Medicare/Medicaid beneficiaries who take advantage of the system, there are very few people who go to the doctor just because it's free. The bigger-yet-easier-to-solve seems to be fraud among health care providers who rack up millions for everything from fraudulent dental x-rays to fake ambulance rides. Hopefully with more federal oversight, the state-level corruption which allows this might be at least slightly reduced.

[mirrodie]

Manny, now that I had a real moment to sit down and ponder....


Rather than government mandating coverage, it should create a real and open market, which we don't have now. We should be able to:

purchase coverage across state lines - buy where it is cheaper, creating market forces to lower prices
purchase "catastrophic" health insurance, which is what insurance was meant for - the big unkown expenses, not for contraceptives and other politically sensitive government mandates
have tax benefits for all insurance - not only on the job, but for all citizens who purchase insurance
have greater availability of HSA's and FSA's, which empower citizens to understand costs, and thereby reduce overutilization of services
reform medical liabilities (tort reform) - whereby procedures are done in wasteful ways for defensive purposes by physicians fearful of lawsuits
I can go on ... but basically, adding another entitlement to our drowning economy is unsustainable.

As we approach 16 Trillion in debt and over 100 Trillion in unfunded mandates, we simply need to rethink how we allocate our resources. We need to empower citizens to determine which services are important to them, based on the market system which has made America great. EMPOWER, not ENTITLE.



And remember this November: if you care about your children, nieces, nephews and our nation's future, we need to repeal Obamacare.

[Matt Molnar]

Manny, now that I had a real moment to sit down and ponder....

Rather than government mandating coverage, it should create a real and open market, which we don't have now. We should be able to:

purchase coverage across state lines - buy where it is cheaper, creating market forces to lower prices
purchase "catastrophic" health insurance, which is what insurance was meant for - the big unkown expenses, not for contraceptives and other politically sensitive government mandates
have tax benefits for all insurance - not only on the job, but for all citizens who purchase insurance
have greater availability of HSA's and FSA's, which empower citizens to understand costs, and thereby reduce overutilization of services
reform medical liabilities (tort reform) - whereby procedures are done in wasteful ways for defensive purposes by physicians fearful of lawsuits
I can go on ... but basically, adding another entitlement to our drowning economy is unsustainable.

As we approach 16 Trillion in debt and over 100 Trillion in unfunded mandates, we simply need to rethink how we allocate our resources. We need to empower citizens to determine which services are important to them, based on the market system which has made America great. EMPOWER, not ENTITLE.

And remember this November: if you care about your children, nieces, nephews and our nation's future, we need to repeal Obamacare.
These things can all be done in addition to Obamacare, they are not mutually exclusive.

Your argument is it's too expensive. You know what else is expensive? Education. Should government stop paying for that?

[NIKV69]

Your argument is it's too expensive. You know what else is expensive? Education. Should government stop paying for that?

No but we don't need superintendents making half a million a year either. I know education in important but it's become another source of entitlement thanks to the unions. We need to be doing it cheaper and have to do away with Tenure. Then we can get some reform.

Mario is right. Obamacare has to go. Will be interesting to see if we get a wave election this fall.