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View Full Version : LGA - World’s Fair Marina July 5th 2011 - FBI / NYPD Joint Terrorism Task Force



Roush6NY
07-11-2011, 04:32 PM
Today I was faced with a whole new experience and it was not just the typical NYPD or Nassau patrol cars.

Last week after work from my way home, it was a gorgeous afternoon and LGA was on 31 for arrivals so I decided to take advantage and get some shots.

After about an hour and half an NYPD car pulled up next to me as I was standing by my car shooting. Of course I knew what I was in for. Right away I said my hellos and the questioning started as usual, what do I do, what am I taking photos of and on and on .. After a good 25 min of speaking and checking my ID and car registration, everything was just fine, they said someone called and they were concerned, the officers were extremely cool and went on their way and told me to enjoy the rest of my time.

No less than 15 min later they returned and said they have a request from me, I said sure, how may I help you guys ? 1st officer goes, sorry to be a pain man, but as we were on our way out we were stopped again by some civilians and they are not happy with you are doing this here, can you just do us a favor and come back tom or something? Of course I said sure, right away sir, I will leave for your respect and I know you are doing your job. So I packed up right away and left.

Today, around 2sh I get a call from my father saying, hey why were there 2 men here just now at the house looking for you from this task force? They spoke to my father and said my plates were called in on a white Ford Mustang which was spotted around LGA last week doing "suspicious activities" ! My dad goes may I ask what type of activity ? As soon as they mentioned taking pictures, he knew to tell them that its my hobby and that is all to it. One officer handed him a business card and said please have him call us right away so we can settle this with him. BTW the reason they showed up at my parents house is because my car is still registered in that address and they showed up at their door.

I call the officer right away on his cell which was on his card, introduced my self and he knew right away who I was. He was a total gentlemen from the start, the questioning started, about the whole hobby, why do I do it, where do I post my photos and on and on ... After 15 minutes of talking he thanked me for my cooperation and answering all his questions and even said sorry if we scared your dad by showing up to the house.

At the end he mentioned that a civilian had called my plates in to this 800 # for terrorism concerns ( I wonder which civilian that was ) and they wanted to make sure everything was ok, before he hung up, I was asked if they can stop by my house in Queens and have a look at my photos. I said with pleasure sir, here is when I get home from work and this is my cell that I am calling you on, please feel free to call or just stop by any time you like when I am not at work and I will be more than happy to go over everything with you and show you all my photos.

Just wanted to share this with you all, it is unreal that to what measure someone would go to start something, you call the cops, they show up, everything is cool, they leave, but yet you get me kicked out and I leave but NO, you have to take it to the next level !

If they do decide to show up at my house, I will keep you posted !

lijk604
07-11-2011, 05:12 PM
Kaz, I feel for ya. About four years ago I had some time to kill and got lunch at a local deli. That happened to be on the approach path for Rwy24 at Islip. I grabbed the two SWA 737's and the US Express Dash 8, and left. Thinking nothing except, wow I caught a few airplanes when I least expected it. I was there maybe 15 minutes tops. A week later my wife gets a phone call that some FBI guys are looking to talk to me, and she wants to know what's up. Honestly at this point I had no clue, however they left a number, and I called the guy. He asked if I would be home the next day, and I told him how long I would be home before I went to work.

Next day comes and I get a knock on my house door at 8am from him, and he was flashing his badge, and he asked if he could come in. I let him in, and he asks if that was my car in the driveway. Now I'm getting nervous, because I still have no idea what was up. I asked him did I do anything wrong, and he looks at me and humbly says, someone called in your car & lic plates, and some suspicious activity near Islip airport. I think I shocked him when my response was, "OH, I just finished editing and printing those pictures!" I actually ran to the printer and brought them to show him. He shook his head, and said "I'm sorry I had to bother you, but we have to follow up on all calls." I told him I completely understood, and was sorry for troubling him. He said, hey it's all good, have a nice day and left.

Thankfully, I haven't heard another word about it since. Amazing, 10 years later, and they are going after those of us who are out in the open enjoying a nice day. Meanwhile those who mean harm are hiding in the shadows because no one is looking there. Ah well....at least "they" didn't win. :confused:

Zee71
07-11-2011, 05:37 PM
After reading both your stories, I am much more convienced that we should have some sort of Spotting ID (just like the Canadains do), they could do whatever background checks, etc.. They could enter us in some sort of Spotters database, this way don't waste time and expending resources on spotters enjoying their hobby, not to mention we would be an extension to law enforcement as another set of eyes.

moose135
07-11-2011, 06:21 PM
About three years ago, I was out at HoBe one morning shooting departures with an out-of-town guest (a Cathay F/O in fact) when NYPD rolled up on us - 4 plainclothes cops in an old, unmarked Buick. They checked us out, patted us down, and recorded our info. 20 minutes later (after a couple of marked RMPs arrived) they wished us well and went on their way. Three or four days later, I get a call on my cell (and there is conflicting stories on how they got my cell) from an FBI agent out of the JFK office. Apparently NYPD had filed a report with them, and they had to follow up on it. They offered to meet me at home - but I didn't want them coming to my house - so we ended up meeting at Roosevelt Field. Two agents in an SUV, they had all kinds of background info on me - beyond what they would get from the driver's license I gave NYPD. They asked about my photos, what I do with them, etc. They kept telling me I hadn't done anything wrong, and wasn't under arrest, but they needed to follow up...I guess the whole thing took about 15 or 20 minutes. They did say that if they ever got a report on my again, I was "in the system" so they would know I was safe.

megatop412
07-11-2011, 08:21 PM
These are some crazy stories. We always talk about our run-ins while at the location, but to have follow up contact with them coming to people's houses???

Several months before Swissair 111, I had all my personal info taken down by the PAPD spotting over by the post office of all places(I was still 'new' and looking for spots to take pictures from). So this dude driving a front end loader comes over to my car and asks me if I'm from OSHA. I said I had no idea what OSHA was. Within a few minutes I had NYPD and PAPD blocking me in. I remember the PAPD cop saying "We know who you are now- if anything happens to any of these planes, expect a visit from us". Then the crash happened, and I waited anxiously for the promised "visit". Which never happened.

NIKV69
07-11-2011, 10:47 PM
After reading both your stories, I am much more convienced that we should have some sort of Spotting ID (just like the Canadains do), they could do whatever background checks, etc.. They could enter us in some sort of Spotters database, this way don't waste time and expending resources on spotters enjoying their hobby, not to mention we would be an extension to law enforcement as another set of eyes.

Though a great idea in theory PA or NCPD probably won't want to be bothered and it will probably never be put in practice. I also feel we shouldn't have to go to this effort to do something like take pictures in a public place.

Great story I had homeland security come to my house, it was cool. Good to see they are running down all things that seem suspicious to the public.

PhilDernerJr
07-12-2011, 01:18 PM
After reading both your stories, I am much more convienced that we should have some sort of Spotting ID (just like the Canadains do), they could do whatever background checks, etc.. They could enter us in some sort of Spotters database, this way don't waste time and expending resources on spotters enjoying their hobby, not to mention we would be an extension to law enforcement as another set of eyes.

No authority is willing to do this. It's been discussed a lot and explained here a lot and it's unfortunately unable to be a reality in NYC at this time. Even if NYCA made cards, it wouldn't be recognized or respected in anyway by law enforcement, and it would only add liability to us. :(

PhilDernerJr
07-12-2011, 01:21 PM
As for Kaz's story, it's a shame, but something that will happen now and again. Thankfully, he handled it wonderfully, being respectful and cooperative.

I had JTTF show up at my house once as well, and 99% of it is that they just need to do their job and be sure. Both sides are usually cool, we help each other out and walk apart feeling pleased that all is well.

RED
07-12-2011, 01:56 PM
This is pretty insane. Im a long time lingerer here constantly skimming the forums to possibly learn some techniques and what not, but after reading this im not so sure I want to go spotting anymore lol.

Roush6NY
07-12-2011, 01:57 PM
we help each other out and walk apart feeling pleased that all is well.

Could have not said it better, Phil !

Roush6NY
07-12-2011, 02:05 PM
This is pretty insane. Im a long time lingerer here constantly skimming the forums to possibly learn some techniques and what not, but after reading this im not so sure I want to go spotting anymore lol.

Red, I am pretty new to this hobby my self, I started last Dec. This should not make you NOT want to go out spotting. We are not doing anything wrong or illegal. As long as you stick with the locations given to you on the site you have nothing to worry about. If you do run into the law in any way, all you have to do is RESPECT what they say and ask you to do and you have nothing to worry about.

Yes this experience did shock me a little yesterday, not going to lie, but, I know I have not done anything wrong and I did what I had to in every way to make sure both sides were happy. This will in NO way keep me from heading out there, I will be back again sometime this week after work and this weekend as usual and enjoy my hobby that I love !

steve1840
07-12-2011, 02:16 PM
I've got to be honest guys I'm truly glad that people are taking action against things they find worrisome. I know this isn't going to be a popular post but honestly I find it odd that some people spend so much time hanging around airports taking pictures and tracking registrations of aircraft. I understand it's a hobby for some, honestly why I'm not sure, I can't see the importance of knowing that you saw aircraft X at JFK on this date but to each his own. What I can say is I understand why nervous citizens would make such phone calls. I know that I would hate to lose 150 of my passengers and myself because some terrorist knew that you guys did this and was able to park next to a runway all day with weapons and no one thought to call and have them checked out. I'm an aviation geek like the rest of you, I think airplane is one of the most beautiful things man has ever created but it's playing with fire lurking around airports snapping pictures of us all day, it just seems like a lot of risk just to take some pictures that may or most likely may not end up on airliners.net or jetphotos. With the exception of the administrator of this site who clearly has been able to make a living of his hobby which I think is great it seems best to keep looky loos away from the airports. There are far too many unstable people out there who could do a lot of harm if things like this are not considerate threats. I truly don't mean this post to in any way offend anyone this is just the opinion of someone on the other side of the lens.

I don't have a problem with somebody calling the athourities when they see something that looks suspicious to them. And yes, eventhough I am an avid spotter I can see [to a point] some people [who don't know what we're about] finding it suspicious that we're pointing our cameras at the panes all day long. But, as this post showed, that even after someone called the police and the police did their job and that person left, they still appeared to persue it.

Us as spotters sitting in PUBLIC areas around the airport, are not doing anything wrong and are actually an asset to the airports. There are not always police or airport security around and therefore we may see and capture [on camera] something they may not when they are not there.

wunaladreamin
07-12-2011, 02:30 PM
I've got to be honest guys I'm truly glad that people are taking action against things they find worrisome. I know this isn't going to be a popular post but honestly I find it odd that some people spend so much time hanging around airports taking pictures and tracking registrations of aircraft. I understand it's a hobby for some, honestly why I'm not sure, I can't see the importance of knowing that you saw aircraft X at JFK on this date but to each his own. What I can say is I understand why nervous citizens would make such phone calls. I know that I would hate to lose 150 of my passengers and myself because some terrorist knew that you guys did this and was able to park next to a runway all day with weapons and no one thought to call and have them checked out. I'm an aviation geek like the rest of you, I think airplane is one of the most beautiful things man has ever created but it's playing with fire lurking around airports snapping pictures of us all day, it just seems like a lot of risk just to take some pictures that may or most likely may not end up on airliners.net or jetphotos. With the exception of the administrator of this site who clearly has been able to make a living of his hobby which I think is great it seems best to keep looky loos away from the airports. There are far too many unstable people out there who could do a lot of harm if things like this are not considerate threats. I truly don't mean this post to in any way offend anyone this is just the opinion of someone on the other side of the lens.
Wow. All I can say to this is wow. Steve hit the nail directly on the head in his response. I highly doubt someone's going to lose a plane and its passengers because someone took a picture IN A WIDE OPEN PUBLIC PLACE. I'd be more concerned with someone really hiding out and sneaking about the way they look at aircraft than a bunch of dudes out in the open. Plus, as Steve said, we are a bit of an added security measure. We've built a decent rapport with the local PDs and they for the most part know we'd be the first to phone in something suspicious.

Now, tell us about your hobby. I'd like the chance to crap all over it as you've done to ours.

Zee71
07-12-2011, 02:54 PM
I've got to be honest guys I'm truly glad that people are taking action against things they find worrisome. I know this isn't going to be a popular post but honestly I find it odd that some people spend so much time hanging around airports taking pictures and tracking registrations of aircraft. I understand it's a hobby for some, honestly why I'm not sure, I can't see the importance of knowing that you saw aircraft X at JFK on this date but to each his own. What I can say is I understand why nervous citizens would make such phone calls. I know that I would hate to lose 150 of my passengers and myself because some terrorist knew that you guys did this and was able to park next to a runway all day with weapons and no one thought to call and have them checked out. I'm an aviation geek like the rest of you, I think airplane is one of the most beautiful things man has ever created but it's playing with fire lurking around airports snapping pictures of us all day, it just seems like a lot of risk just to take some pictures that may or most likely may not end up on airliners.net or jetphotos. With the exception of the administrator of this site who clearly has been able to make a living of his hobby which I think is great it seems best to keep looky loos away from the airports. There are far too many unstable people out there who could do a lot of harm if things like this are not considerate threats. I truly don't mean this post to in any way offend anyone this is just the opinion of someone on the other side of the lens.



For me..........I've been an aviation geek since my teen years, I've also been into photography as well. Now I've combined my two passions (thus spotting and avaition photography). As an analogy I would compare it to collecting baseball cards of certain teams (in this case the fleet for Jet Blue, etc.) or certain players (in this case those unique schemes, inaugural flight, etc.). Over time those images photographed capture aviation history (airliners that have come and gone, aircraft that no longer fly the skies or sit at the terminal gates awaiting for their next departure, etc.). I am thankful to those individuals that make the call, because they are vigilant as opposed to those that drive by and don't say a word. Having spotters in my view aides local and airport authorities.

I find spotters to be normal. What I find odd is those individuals that pay big bucks to see some golfer (like at the US Open), hit a ball with some oddly shaped stick, and then they follow him or her to see the individual then try to hit the ball in a cup that is hundreds of yards away, and they do this eighteen times. That's odd to me!!! (just a crude example).

To my fellow spotters............spot on!!!!

Roush6NY
07-12-2011, 03:28 PM
it just seems like a lot of risk just to take some pictures that may or most likely may not end up on airliners.net or jetphotos.

I respect that you have YOUR opinion about spotting or spotters, everyone has the right to talk, BUT DO NOT EVER COME ON HERE AND PUT ANY OF OUR TALENTS DOWN, every single person on this site that snaps a single photo is an artist and THEY all have some of the most beautiful photos I have ever seen, HECK I have learned pretty much everything I know about photography alone from all my friends on here and I owe it to them, And no, we do not just take our photos for airliners or jetphotos, but if you wanna take it to that level, there is a reason why OUR group has 17,351 photos in jetphotos database alone !

Zee71
07-12-2011, 03:35 PM
Update that number to 17,355 and increasing

steve1840
07-12-2011, 03:54 PM
I would also like to add that aviation photography and spotting is not something that is new. Spotters and aviation photographers have been around since at least WWII. People have been sitting around airports for decades taking photos and tracking registration numbers. But because of "one day" in history our hobby is now labelled as suspicious.

eric8669
07-12-2011, 03:58 PM
I've got to be honest guys I'm truly glad that people are taking action against things they find worrisome. I know this isn't going to be a popular post but honestly I find it odd that some people spend so much time hanging around airports taking pictures and tracking registrations of aircraft. I understand it's a hobby for some, honestly why I'm not sure, I can't see the importance of knowing that you saw aircraft X at JFK on this date but to each his own. What I can say is I understand why nervous citizens would make such phone calls. I know that I would hate to lose 150 of my passengers and myself because some terrorist knew that you guys did this and was able to park next to a runway all day with weapons and no one thought to call and have them checked out. I'm an aviation geek like the rest of you, I think airplane is one of the most beautiful things man has ever created but it's playing with fire lurking around airports snapping pictures of us all day, it just seems like a lot of risk just to take some pictures that may or most likely may not end up on airliners.net or jetphotos. With the exception of the administrator of this site who clearly has been able to make a living of his hobby which I think is great it seems best to keep looky loos away from the airports. There are far too many unstable people out there who could do a lot of harm if things like this are not considerate threats. I truly don't mean this post to in any way offend anyone this is just the opinion of someone on the other side of the lens.

Risk? What Risk? We are doing nothing wrong. And some of us do not just take pictures of planes to see if they end up on Airliners or jetphotos. That is actually the furthest thing from my mind when I'm out there. For one I love photography, I love aviation and I have met some great people through this hobby.

steve1840
07-12-2011, 04:10 PM
Eric, you are absolutely right. I believe that is exactly how many of us feel about this hobby. I love going out and using my camera and I enjoy aviation as well. Both of them together make for a great combination. Just the thought of being out on a nice sunny day relaxing with the great friends that I have made on this forum with the chance of capturing something that will one day be a great part of history is very satisfying to me. I wish i had been alive a decade sooner so that i could have had the chance to catch some of the most beautiful pieces of aviation ever built.

So what it comes down to is that some people relax by walking around for 4 hours chasing a little white ball or cruising around the bay in a boat with their gold digging girlfriend. We get our jollies by capturing giant floating marvels of modern engineering on camera.

wunaladreamin
07-12-2011, 04:28 PM
I don't know why I or any of you guys got so worked up over that one post. Anyone who is an expert at FS10, played from their race car bed cannot dictate to anyone what their recreational activities should be. I shall return to dreaming of Sherpas.

I am wunaladreamin and I approve of this message.

steve1840
07-12-2011, 04:39 PM
Rats!

Cary
07-12-2011, 05:31 PM
I've got to be honest guys I'm truly glad that people are taking action against things they find worrisome. I know this isn't going to be a popular post but honestly I find it odd that some people spend so much time hanging around airports taking pictures and tracking registrations of aircraft. I understand it's a hobby for some, honestly why I'm not sure, I can't see the importance of knowing that you saw aircraft X at JFK on this date but to each his own. What I can say is I understand why nervous citizens would make such phone calls. I know that I would hate to lose 150 of my passengers and myself because some terrorist knew that you guys did this and was able to park next to a runway all day with weapons and no one thought to call and have them checked out. I'm an aviation geek like the rest of you, I think airplane is one of the most beautiful things man has ever created but it's playing with fire lurking around airports snapping pictures of us all day, it just seems like a lot of risk just to take some pictures that may or most likely may not end up on airliners.net or jetphotos. With the exception of the administrator of this site who clearly has been able to make a living of his hobby which I think is great it seems best to keep looky loos away from the airports. There are far too many unstable people out there who could do a lot of harm if things like this are not considerate threats. I truly don't mean this post to in any way offend anyone this is just the opinion of someone on the other side of the lens.

So you're an "aviation geek" and pilot, but don't understand why people would spend so much time around airports, checking out the planes? I don't question why birders spend an entire day in the forest or why people watch cars driving around in circles for 500 miles, but hey - maybe they enjoy it?

And because we are around airports, in public areas...you know...with other people around, some terrorist is going to exploit plane spotters? If so, we better stop the fishermen at Bayswater, because a terrorist could pose as a fisherman. Or better yet - he could pose as a shopper at one of the many surrounding businesses, so lets close down all the stores within a 5 mile radius. It would be too easy for a terrorist to stop on one of the perimeter roadways and pull out a weapon, so I guess a nice challenge would be to sit there "all day with weapons", just so he can pretend to be a plane spotter.

Phil gets a free pass because he "clearly has been able to make a living of his hobby"? :frown: I truly don't mean this post to in any way offend you - this is just the opinion of someone on the other side of the galaxy.

PhilDernerJr
07-12-2011, 05:43 PM
Yes, there is no actual RISK in spotting. I do LIKE the fact that people call the police over what they find suspicious. This particular case is a REAL oddball, and it is literally one in a thousand spotting visits that result in something like this. So again, no big issues. Whoever reported this spotter seemingly was paranoid beyond reason to where they were not pleased enough that the police checked them out and that the spotter left, but still had to elevate it even more afterward. A bit excessive.

As for the hobby, there's nothing WRONG with it, and I think the opinion given by arealairlinepilot is a bit harsh in that respect. You don't need to understand it, but just know that it's safe, legal and enjoyable for many hundreds of thousands around the world. We are a group of people who SUPPORT an industry usually so much on the defensive from the flying and residential public, that our interest should be majorly applauded and supported.

I would also like to emphasize that, though this site has become an LLC, it does no support my life and I do not pay myself. Me, Matt and many staffers are VOLUNTEER, spending many hours at home, INSTEAD OF SPOTTING, trying to do what we can to promote the hobby and to even deal with situations like the above. Maybe one day I'll be able to quit my job and do it full time so that I can do more things for the hobby, but I don't like that assumption. Aside from the many hours I work on the site, I have a full-time job working for an airline and I do side work as well to make ends meet.

Please excuse the tangent and let's get back to the topic at hand. Again, great job, Kaz!

megatop412
07-12-2011, 08:10 PM
Areaairlinepilot- I am in no way offended by your post. Hopefully you can see that the vast majority of us understand that people have become very suspicious of our hobby(love), and that we take that very seriously and try to respond with as much measured reaction as possible, while also trying to educate people as to the actual value of our presence. This group is but one cog in the big piece of machinery that is aviation enthusiasts. That's why there are things like airshows, and the Newark Airline Collectibles Show on Saturday Sept 10th at the Ramada Inn from 9am to whenever.

I personally could care less about talking to the police, FBI, NSA, FBI, FAA, DHS, NASA, the UN, whatever. They can come at me and flash whatever credentials they want. But as long as I live in this country, they will never get me to stop taking pictures of planes. Only when the icy grip of Death's bony fingers pry my hand from my shutter button will I stop. I don't bitch at the people who insist on exercising their right to watch midget porno(because I consider that closer to terrorism than watching planes), so I expect the same freedom to do what I want.

Life is short people. Enjoy that 747 you're looking at, because it could be your last.

Steven Holzinger
07-12-2011, 08:11 PM
I'm just now seeing this and I'm going to add some input to this, as the same thing happened to me one time...

April 2009 - I'm out on this beach along the Delaware River, directly across from the Philadelphia Navy Yard, testing out my new video camera (at the time) filming aircraft coming into PHL's Runway 27R. This is on the NEW JERSEY SIDE of the river and I was with another friend of mine (Andrew, who most of you know). Nothing happened, I got a lot of good video, Andrew got some great photos, and we went our ways, looking forward to airshow season starting the following week or so.

Fast forward to sometime in September 2009. I come home from work to find out two guys from the United States Department of Homeland Security's TSA stopped by. They were Special Agents of the Joint Terrorism Task Force and one left his card and his number. I got on the phone with him, and we had a professional and absolutely friendly twenty minute chat, with him emphasizing that I did nothing wrong, that someone called in my license plate (and not Andrew's - I don't know why) and reported me as suspicious, he did not label me as a suspicious person, and basically asked me that since I have his card, to keep it with me when I go out spotting and to give him a call anytime I see anything I deem as suspicious. Believe me, I was SHOCKED to hear this. I took it a step further and asked, since he works in Southern NJ, if I can call him if I see something in locations like JFK, IAD, even LAX, and he said yes and that he would make sure the respective agents in the area knew.

My whole issue is why did they wait five months to investigate and talk to me? Either way, the outcome was great.

emshighway
07-12-2011, 08:23 PM
I would also like to add that aviation photography and spotting is not something that is new. Spotters and aviation photographers have been around since at least WWII. People have been sitting around airports for decades taking photos and tracking registration numbers. But because of "one day" in history our hobby is now labelled as suspicious.

Actually spotting has been around as long as aviation:

http://gardenofpraise.com/images/wright.jpg

wunaladreamin
07-12-2011, 08:35 PM
Actually spotting has been around as long as aviation:

http://gardenofpraise.com/images/wright.jpg
Yeah, Moose can attest to that!

arealairlinepilot
07-12-2011, 08:55 PM
As I said in the original post this was never meant to offend anyone and never in my post did I say what you were doing was somehow abnormal. I understand that this is your hobby, no different than the guy that can recite every stat of the 69' Mets. The fact is however what you are doing is raising eyebrows of the general public and flight crews alike. I know personally my airline, the airline most of you probably take pictures of daily some of you may ever work here, has specifically briefed its flight crews to report anyone photographing aircraft in the vicinity of the airports. You are absolutely correct what you are doing is not illegal but it is suspicious. Some of you argue that you are somehow helpful to law enforcement but in all honesty the joint terrorism task force would be much better off dealing with serious problems than having to check on a bunch of kids with cameras at the airport. The fact is however as long as you are there their attention will be drawn to you and not the serious tasks at hand, it will be that way because concerned citizens and pilots will continue to report such activity. That being said I don't think you should stop doing what you love, if thats the way you want to spend your time off so be it but don't be surprised when the cops are knocking on your doors wanting to see what you are doing because the people turning you in are probably the vary people you are taking pictures of and not because we think anything bad of you but because it is what we are told should be done.

eric8669
07-12-2011, 09:23 PM
As I said in the original post this was never meant to offend anyone and never in my post did I say what you were doing was somehow abnormal. I understand that this is your hobby, no different than the guy that can recite every stat of the 69' Mets. The fact is however what you are doing is raising eyebrows of the general public and flight crews alike. I know personally my airline, the airline most of you probably take pictures of daily some of you may ever work here, has specifically briefed its flight crews to report anyone photographing aircraft in the vicinity of the airports. You are absolutely correct what you are doing is not illegal but it is suspicious. Some of you argue that you are somehow helpful to law enforcement but in all honesty the joint terrorism task force would be much better off dealing with serious problems than having to check on a bunch of kids with cameras at the airport. The fact is however as long as you are there their attention will be drawn to you and not the serious tasks at hand, it will be that way because concerned citizens and pilots will continue to report such activity. That being said I don't think you should stop doing what you love, if thats the way you want to spend your time off so be it but don't be surprised when the cops are knocking on your doors wanting to see what you are doing because the people turning you in are probably the vary people you are taking pictures of and not because we think anything bad of you but because it is what we are told should be done.

This post is worse then your last one. well you know what. I am offended.

PhilDernerJr
07-12-2011, 09:25 PM
I have to step in and say you're pretty ignorant if you think we're "kids". Most of us are adults, and are made up of people who are lawyers, police officers, federal agents, and some are the very people that are sent out to visit us.

Stop saying you mean no offense and then saying something that is obviously offensive.

You should also know that there are programs already in place here in the US where local law enforcement and airport management actually team up with enthusiasts to help keep the airports safe. It's a shame if you don't see the potential of people who can spot possible terror attack planning, airfield threats (like FOD) and even local petty crime that happens around the airport.

I am also saddened to hear of the ignorance of your company, telling you to report anyone taking photos. If people are suspicious, fine, but such RULES are another sign of ignorance.

I would like to again emphasize that no one here is complaining that police show up....you continue to assume that. We even welcome it, and we work with the police, most of whom know who we are already, to make people calm. Again, the case mentioned in this thread is an extreme rarity in where the people that reported the enthusiast in question were going to be worried whether the cops showed up or not. What we're trying to accomplish in this discussion is to spread awareness of these and to keep people ready and reminded to be kind and cooperative when these situations arise. It's about progress.

For someone who thinks we're all just a bunch of kids, you sure had no problem registering to hang out here. I don't have to call Chris Hansen, do I? :-p

Roush6NY
07-12-2011, 09:41 PM
Phil, thank YOU for beating me to it as far as us being "kids" .. It wasn't going to be pretty.

moose135
07-12-2011, 09:42 PM
Yeah, Moose can attest to that!
One of my earliest photos...
http://www.moose135photography.com/photos/i-txSKgDS/0/M/i-txSKgDS-M.jpg



As I said in the original post this was never meant to offend anyone...
Usually when someones says "no offense..." their next words are usually offensive.



...and never in my post did I say what you were doing was somehow abnormal.


...but honestly I find it odd that some people spend so much time hanging around airports taking pictures and tracking registrations of aircraft.
From Dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/odd):
ODD - adjective
1. differing in nature from what is ordinary, usual, or expected
2. singular or peculiar in a strange or eccentric way
3. fantastic; bizarre


...a bunch of kids with cameras at the airport.
Speaking of offensive. Please show a little respect to the members of this forum. I'm 51 years old, an Air Force veteran and pilot. I've spent a lifetime around aircraft - I'm the son of an airline mechanic, I've taken photos of aircraft for more than 40 years, and I've been a pilot in the Air Force. So yes, I've risked my life so that you have the right to come here and insult me.

Cary
07-12-2011, 09:44 PM
I know personally my airline, the airline most of you probably take pictures of daily some of you may ever work here, has specifically briefed its flight crews to report anyone photographing aircraft in the vicinity of the airports.

The pilots I've talked to at your airline (or what is pretty obviously your airline) have told me how a lot of pilots there liked to check A.net/JP.net to find photos of their flights. So, if there's a memo to "report anyone photographing aircraft in the vicinity of the airports", they probably aren't trying to look too hard.

Also, people who say "no offense" normally follow it up with something offensive. Just saying. -- Looks like Moose beat me to it.

NIKV69
07-12-2011, 10:14 PM
This post is worse then your last one. well you know what. I am offended.

I knew that 69' Met comment wouldn't go over well. Oh wait they did win it 86'. Sorry..:smile:

Lrusso
07-12-2011, 10:18 PM
.....

Cary
07-12-2011, 10:21 PM
The real question is does this cause B6 to lose any NYC AVIATION customers?
Doesn't matter. We're all kids, so mommy and daddy make our air travel plans for us.

Ychocky
07-12-2011, 10:23 PM
In response to Kaz's experience I can only commend the way it was handled by him. It certainly appears to be an extreme case.

Even with Airport Watch here in Ottawa, I have been asked what exactly I am doing standing on the roof of my Ford Focus. (Military Charter arriving)

I can understand how "touchy" the NYC area is concerning these matters. I have been enjoying all your work here and hope are never discouraged to head out and "waste" some time at the airport.

I look forward to spending thousands of my hard earned (Canadian) dollars to join you all in the pursuit of photographing/enjoying an approaching aircraft on short final.

arealairlinepilot
07-12-2011, 10:25 PM
Look as I said in the first post I knew my opinions would be popular here. To those I did offend I truly apologize. The fact remains that as far as this post and all post on the subject as someone on the other side of the lens it is great that people are cautious of what you are doing regardless of what my personal feelings are, as I said I am an aviation geek which is exactly why I put myself through the training to become a pilot. I love seeing photos of my flights online to that I am sure other pilots agree however that again doesn't change the fact that we do and should report that activity. In this case it really is better to be safe than sorry, the fact is it could very well be my life at risk as well as my passengers. As far as any comments about who gave me the "right" to post here and why I think my three years of flying a gunship over Afghanistan and being shot and sent home to fly the general public gave me that right. I respect the hell out of Phil and what he established here so to see I offended him is upsetting and for that I apologize. This site is a real gem for aviation news. My opinions are based solely on the feelings of someone who has seen what terrorist can do first hand and I will always be cautious of any activity near our airports. Like I said I would hope no one stops what you are doing, but expect the citizens and pilots alike to continue to report it, as has been posted it seems most of you expect it and cooperate which is a great thing.

wunaladreamin
07-12-2011, 10:28 PM
You know guys, a good friend of mine, rest his soul, used to always say to never argue with an idiot. They'll only drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Clearly the food coloring from the blue 'tater chips has clouded one's mind.

wunaladreamin
07-12-2011, 10:34 PM
Speaking of offensive. Please show a little respect to the members of this forum. I'm 51 years old...
I think Fred told him about your diapers.

*ducks for cover* :cool::cool:

moose135
07-12-2011, 10:48 PM
I love seeing photos of my flights online to that I am sure other pilots agree however that again doesn't change the fact that we do and should report that activity.
You like seeing photos of your flights, but you feel it appropriate to report photographers? Just how does that work? From your comment in another thread, it's apparent who you fly for. Right now, I have photographed all but a few of the aircraft in your fleet - yes, I understand that is odd behavior. Perhaps you would like to report my activities to the authorities.


In this case it really is better to be safe than sorry, the fact is it could very well be my life at risk as well as my passengers.
Remind me again how many aircraft have been downed by photographers...


Like I said I would hope no one stops what you are doing...
Actually, when you said "...the joint terrorism task force would be much better off dealing with serious problems than having to check on a bunch of kids with cameras at the airport" it makes think you would rather we weren't out spotting. But then, you wouldn't get to see photos of your flights online... :rolleyes:

As the saying goes, "When you're in a hole, stop digging."

arealairlinepilot
07-12-2011, 11:36 PM
Listen no one is in a hole on this. People get reported because what you do looks suspicious plain and simple. If someone knows you and sees you out there then of course no one would call you in. However taxiing by and seeing someone hanging out watching aircraft just plain looks suspicious and in spite of what you my think we usually can't see who or what is happening near the fence, just that there are people hanging around and to be safe we should call it in. So no, no one has been hurt by a photographer but we don't know you nor know what your doing so what's the harm in having someone check it out. That's all I'm saying. So yes I call it in and if everything is normal then great snap some great shots and I'll look for them online later. Honestly I'm sorry to offend. I was just trying to bring a new point of view to the discussion. The kid comment was inappropriate and I appologise to those offended. As I said this is a great site with a lot of great info. I hope to learn a little more about what you all do as I am semi new to civil aviation.

Cary
07-13-2011, 01:07 AM
You said your airline "has specifically briefed its flight crews to report anyone photographing aircraft in the vicinity of the airports". Just curious...do they make an exception for airports which have OFFICIAL aircraft observation parks and locations with holes specifically created so photographers could take airplane photos? I get the impression that you were asked to report any suspicious behavior, and perhaps given an example of someone taking pictures of your aircraft, but if you were specifically briefed to report anyone photographing aircraft in the vicinity of the airports, then your coworkers must make a lot of reports at BWI, FLL, AUS, SXM and the dozens of other airports where plane spotters have either been given an official location, airplane photography has been expressly permitted by airport authorities, or there are just a lot of tourists with cameras around.

lijk604
07-13-2011, 07:39 PM
Listen no one is in a hole on this.
Yes...yes you are.


People get reported because what you do looks suspicious plain and simple. If someone knows you and sees you out there then of course no one would call you in. However taxiing by and seeing someone hanging out watching aircraft just plain looks suspicious and in spite of what you my think we usually can't see who or what is happening near the fence, just that there are people hanging around and to be safe we should call it in.

Suspicious...yet we are in plain sight, advertising to all who are around us what we are doing. Taking photographs. You want to talk suspicious? How about the guys fishing by Costco....sitting there with a pole in the dank run out waters of Jamaica Bay, murmuring to themselves. Getting territorial if you get too close to their fishing poles. That's suspicious. We WELCOME anyone who is curious to come and talk to us. It's called educating the uninformed or curious. After explanation, some look at us like we're crazy. Others are just like "Hey whatever floats your boat." Every once in a while, we get someone who likes what we are doing and actually joins us again the next time we are out.

I'm can understand after what you have seen overseas that you have the right to be cautious, but let's be reasonable here too. Before 9/11, nobody ever looked twice at a photographer and wondered what they are doing. Now, we are the "easy target" for ball busting. Why? Because we do not hide, we have nothing to hide. We are all aviation geeks who want nothing more than to snap a picture of that elusive Etihad F1 A345, or the Qantas WunalaDreaming B747. Even the NY Jets colored jetBlue A320 is on my list.

You sir have FOUGHT overseas for our FREEDOM here in the USA, please do not now fight at home AGAINST it.
Thank you.

threeholerglory
07-13-2011, 08:41 PM
Although I am not CURRENTLY toting around more than a few passengers at a time (my max is 6 based on our aircraft), I have been on both sides of the lens and can honestly say that unless that camera is sporting an RPG and not a polarizing filter, shoot on my friends. In fact, let me know when you'll be out spotting so I can make a personalized sign just for you so you'll get more views on your image hosting site. Point a laser or other weapon at me, and I'll use every resource I have to make your life a living hell. Otherwise, enjoy taking pictures of my sexy ass airplanes.


but we don't know you nor know what your doing so what's the harm in having someone check it out. That's all I'm saying. we don't know who you are, or what you're doing...which means YOU could be a terrorist. What if the general public started calling in pilots for simply enjoying their hobby or doing their job? It seems to me that towers were brought down because of airplanes, not photographers. As a pilot I would never support the above claim (please read that with exceptional sarcasm) because it's knee-jerk and outlandish, not unlike many of the claims argued in previous posts. I guess there wouldn't be any harm in having the FAA sit in on EVERY flight you make..right?

As you said, that's all I'm saying.

Derf
07-13-2011, 09:05 PM
............. As far as any comments about who gave me the "right" to post here and why I think my three years of flying a gunship over Afghanistan and being shot and sent home to fly the general public gave me that right......

and it seems that it made you paronoyed.... In a warzone I would be petrified of a guy at the fence with a gun...it seems you may not have left that in Afghanistan. Most of us on this site are New Yorkers and I watched the second plane hit in NYC, I sat next to people who were bleeding from WTC as the trains never left the station, I walked home that day watching scared people waiting for what was next. We are not kids and you seem to forget that you were injured fighting for our freedoms that you are not so happy about. Lets also ban all guns because someone can take one to an airport and then we can work on putting a ban on all camera phones because we all know that nobody is going to pull out a 300mm as they would be seen spotting for another terrorist act. We should also make sure that our ID is out on our chest when we are out in public....Where would you like to draw the line?? Please, Let us know what is ok with you.

IN PUBLIC it is NOT illegal to take pictures.... We do not need to be reminded of Terrorist acts thank you and the terrorist are trying to change our way of life so we are scared and compromise our values.

Your service is appreciated but I personally think you mindset is compromised, I will not allow our country to turn into a police state where I am told that I can only pull out a camera with a permit to take pictures of certain things. We owe you a debt of gratitude but you also should think really hard about what also we are not allowed to take pictures of...Trains, Bridges, Water treatment plants....it is all degrees. Is power plants ok? What about a power distribution station, High tension wires, Powerpoles, Powerlines? If I am in plublic, it is all or nothing. I am a professional aviation photographer.... Freedom.... Taking pictures of airplanes is not worth the risk in your head.... You think we are asking for trouble with our freedom.

Here are some other potential targets that I have taken pictures of
http://www.longislandwallpapers.com/Photography/New-York-City/IMG0568/37502985_YJh2R-L-7.jpg
I am a New Yorker, I am an American, and I am scared about what is happening to my country

sammers4247
07-13-2011, 09:58 PM
Derf, that's the point that I was going to make. We are all New Yorkers, and live and work in a city where there are constantly alerts and threats. I understand an airline pilot is in a unique situation with regard to terror threats, but it's not fair to act like they only people who have to deal with terrorism and terrorist activity. If we start compromising our freedoms just because an otherwise innocuous hobby is "odd" or makes people uncomfortable, well, then the terrorists will have gotten exactly what they want.. they want us to be scared.

The best thing to do is to comply with law enforcement when an unknowing person sees people watching or taking photos of airliners and calls up, and inform people of the hobby. It is just a hobby unlike any other.

wunaladreamin
07-13-2011, 10:39 PM
I'm so over this clown and his ludicrous banter.

http://images.cardomain.com/installs/285000-285999/285182_5_full.jpg

gonzalu
07-13-2011, 11:58 PM
Listen no one is in a hole on this. People get reported because what you do looks suspicious plain and simple. If someone knows you and sees you out there then of course no one would call you in. However taxiing by and seeing someone hanging out watching aircraft just plain looks suspicious and in spite of what you my think we usually can't see who or what is happening near the fence, just that there are people hanging around and to be safe we should call it in. So no, no one has been hurt by a photographer but we don't know you nor know what your doing so what's the harm in having someone check it out. That's all I'm saying. So yes I call it in and if everything is normal then great snap some great shots and I'll look for them online later. Honestly I'm sorry to offend. I was just trying to bring a new point of view to the discussion. The kid comment was inappropriate and I appologise to those offended. As I said this is a great site with a lot of great info. I hope to learn a little more about what you all do as I am semi new to civil aviation.

So standing at the local Costco near JFK, with my own two eyes, NO CAMERA, that's different?

What about the fact that for the last 60 years or so, there is a place in the Caribbean that enjoys a plethora of enthusiasts on a daily basis with hundreds of cameras [daily] 99% of which are NOT plane "geeks" like us? Is that too intelligent a thought for you to understand?

What if I started to think you were a bit coocoo because you love to fly planes and want to [protect] them so much that you get jealous when someone like me takes your picture in your airplane from the ground while you fly into JFK? I may consider you a terrorist too and I may think you want to be an insider so you could [do it] !! You may not like that analogy

or in the back yard of ANY OF THESE HOUSES

http://manny.smugmug.com/photos/i-6Zw4xtn/0/L/i-6Zw4xtn-L.jpg

and whatever may or may not be happening in the thousands of them, that doesn't bother you? I mean, the folks in these homes, they have 24x7x365 to ... let me not give any ideas... I hope you get the point

Well, there are those who like to get choked and asphyxiated while having sex for a high, you think we are odd... geesh!!

Thanks Cary, I did miss a wonderful thread... live one isn't he (or she?) Is it far to venture a guess why you assumed an alias here? Why not go by your real name? I think you are the suspicious one... hahaha... yeah, we are suspicious, and have a Magnum Opus such as this website and Forum and many others like it to prove that we are suspicious.. rrrooooiiiggghhhhttt!!!! :cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:

I can't stop laughing!

gonzalu
07-14-2011, 12:05 AM
wait wait wait... one more..

The United States Military INVITES ANYONE AND EVERYONE FOR FREE to come to almost all their bases, including the one where The President parks, and bring cameras and photograph the heck out of all our main lines of defense, and we are suspicious?

Hmmm, England, one of our strongest allies, maybe [THE], they have even bigger shows...

Do you know of the Paris Airshow? Any idea what takes place there?

Have you seen how many images there are on Airliners.net and JetPhotos.net?

Today, the Chairman of the Joints Chiefs of Staff of the USA was given a tour of China's most secret military locations and you worry about us?

If anything, educate yourself, come join us and learn that taking pictures of The White House (which BTW, I think a billion or so people from ALL OVER the world have taken shots of) is just as similar as those who take pictures of a plane or anything they enjoy recording. As a matter of fact, this past Sunday was actually pretty goddamn boring and we actually had much more fun BECAUSE it is a legitimate hobby and instead of going Gang Banging, we just busted each others chops all day long... no harm no foul and if a suspicious bogey like you showed up with different ideas, you bet WE were there and no one from the FBI would have seen or caught anyone because THEY were NOT there, we were...

We are ALWAYS around, watching, photographing, observing, protecting, looking out for the likes of you ... muhahaha!

Phil, I have lost it, it is late, feel free to EDIT!!

threeholerglory
07-14-2011, 02:35 AM
Well, there are those who like to get choked and asphyxiated while having sex for a high, you think we are odd... geesh!!

well...now we know that Manny likes having his hair pulled...I can sleep easier now for knowing that.

NIKV69
07-14-2011, 03:37 AM
wait wait wait... one more..

The United States Military INVITES ANYONE AND EVERYONE FOR FREE to come to almost all their bases, including the one where The President parks, and bring cameras and photograph the heck out of all our main lines of defense, and we are suspicious?



After running down your background pretty well.


muhahaha!



Oh oh, Manny is losing it.

Derf
07-14-2011, 09:44 AM
Guys, it is simple when you think about it... He was shot, looking out the window of his aircraft sometime he gets the heeby geebies, I can understand and relate. Kenny had bis aunt hit by a car on the side of new highway and would not return until the road was repaired, even now I am sure it is hard for him! I got shocked by 480 volts and it put me into the hospital and it took me a very long time to be able to touch live wires that were shielded. I never got over it, Kenny will never get over it completely. Time makes it easier but it will never completely go away like my nightmares of what happened. Ou lr new friend is in pain, it is much better than right after it happened but there is nothing that we can say that will help him when he see's a photographer at the fence. It is the human brain trying to protect himself from a life altering event. It is time to stop beating up on him. I would like to be the first to invite you out for a very nice, non stressful few hours out on the ramp with me. Not from behind the fence but a nice sunset out with a beautiful DC-7 and 2 or 3 close friends. It will be arriving Sunday and staying thru the week but mon or Tuesday would be best for me. If you are interested in good non confrontational conversation and spotter views will not be discussed unless you bring it up, please send be an PM or email at [email protected] . I would like to personally thank you for your service to his country and hope for the love of aviation you can join us in the celebration of flight itself.

megatop412
07-14-2011, 10:28 AM
So standing at the local Costco near JFK, with my own two eyes, NO CAMERA, that's different?

What about the fact that for the last 60 years or so, there is a place in the Caribbean that enjoys a plethora of enthusiasts on a daily basis with hundreds of cameras [daily] 99% of which are NOT plane "geeks" like us? Is that too intelligent a thought for you to understand?

What if I started to think you were a bit coocoo because you love to fly planes and want to [protect] them so much that you get jealous when someone like me takes your picture in your airplane from the ground while you fly into JFK? I may consider you a terrorist too and I may think you want to be an insider so you could [do it] !! You may not like that analogy

or in the back yard of ANY OF THESE HOUSES

http://manny.smugmug.com/photos/i-6Zw4xtn/0/L/i-6Zw4xtn-L.jpg

and whatever may or may not be happening in the thousands of them, that doesn't bother you? I mean, the folks in these homes, they have 24x7x365 to ... let me not give any ideas... I hope you get the point

Well, there are those who like to get choked and asphyxiated while having sex for a high, you think we are odd... geesh!!

Thanks Cary, I did miss a wonderful thread... live one isn't he (or she?) Is it far to venture a guess why you assumed an alias here? Why not go by your real name? I think you are the suspicious one... hahaha... yeah, we are suspicious, and have a Magnum Opus such as this website and Forum and many others like it to prove that we are suspicious.. rrrooooiiiggghhhhttt!!!! :cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:

I can't stop laughing!

Yay! I figured out that my house is in between two of the highlighted areas, so I can do whatever I want! Thanks Manny!:cool:

Zee71
07-14-2011, 11:00 AM
Since Manny brought up the subject of shooting on Military Bases (airshows in particular). Right after 9-11 I had the opportunity to stay aboard the aircraft carrier George Washington for 3 days. This was the same aircraft carrier that was near the shore Long Island the next day protecting the skies of NYC. A group of us flew down to Norfolk VA to board the carrier early that November. I bunked in the same quarters as the sailors (I had the top bunk of course). I've seen and PHOTOGRAPHED just about every area of the ship (except for some areas as we were told by the Naval public relations officer). That reminds me of another event "FLEET WEEK". Lots of folks with camera's, and no one is calling this suspicious activity. Just visit NYC or Time Square, people taking PHOTOGRAPHS of everything, even buildings (how odd, why would people want to take photo's of buildings????)

Bottom line ........... the general public, is mis-informed and needs to get educated about plane spotting. I found out about NYC Aviation through my sister, who was watching the news and Al Roker was doing a special segment on NYC Aviation. After seeing the segment I immediately visited the website and became a member. I am glad to have met fantastic individuals (who are professionals, students, pilots, law enforcement, etc.) here and across the coast.

moose135
07-14-2011, 11:35 AM
I found out about NYC Aviation through my sister, who was watching the news and Al Rouker was doing a special segment on NYC Aviation. After seeing the segment I immediately visited the website and became a member.
Wow, you joined us after seeing the Roker report?:wink:

MarkLawrence
07-14-2011, 12:19 PM
your coworkers must make a lot of reports at BWI, FLL, AUS, SXM

Cary - maybe those that are not too busy waving at all the spotters with their cameras - certainly at FLL of late - they really are all a friendly bunch flying in and out of here at the moment!! :)

Both side have been presented in this case - and - ultimately, we are not going to stop taking pictures, and we are never going to stop people calling in about us being out there taking our pictures because they think we are suspicious. Same as we are never going to convince people who don't understand that our hobby/pastime is fun to us! People who think we are weird and suspicious are going to call LE and we'll keep getting those friendly visits :) I can certainly confirm that in South Florida, LE definitely recognizes the benefit of using being in the area - they will stop and chat to us when they can!

Although I've never been referred to as a kid of late - I know I've been kid-like at times - ask Nick V or anyone I've spotted with in NY about seeing something I need!! :lol:

NIKV69
07-14-2011, 01:18 PM
Wow, you joined us after seeing the Roker report?:wink:

LOL I remember that fiasco. I wish someone would have thrown him in the water.

USAF Pilot 07
07-14-2011, 05:03 PM
As far as any comments about who gave me the "right" to post here and why I think my three years of flying a gunship over Afghanistan and being shot and sent home to fly the general public gave me that right.

Since you brought it up, care to elaborate? Not that I don't believe you, but as someone who's spent a decent amount of time flying over the skies of Afghanistan, I'm curious...

B6Busdriver
07-16-2011, 06:54 AM
Where in the world do I start... Let me first say this guy is a complete as*hole. I've been reading the forum for a long time now, I follow you on twitter and I love this site. It's a great place for news and insight into all things aviation. I can't believe that someone from my company would come on here and say these things to all of you. As one of the FLL based guys that was mentioned previously here as waving and smiling to the camera as of late, I'm sorry to see one of our own be so thoughtless. Let me acknoledge that he is correct our airline as well as all others do tell there crews in our yearly safety briefs to report all individuals and groups taking photos on and around airport property. This however is left to the descretion of the pilots and in most cases we all know what you all do and only on rare occations have to inform anyone. I hope that the invotation to come out with some of you can be extended my way too because I've seen some amazing photos out there and I'd like to meet some of the people behind the lens. I never post on things like this but I created this account just to rebutt what this guy was saying, trust me you all have friends in the flightdeck. In fact if any of you FLL guys are going to be out this beautiful morning I'll be flying flight 310 to IAD. Nothing special with this airplane though, I think the name is True Blue and the tail is the mosaic skeem. Anyway spot on my friends!

MarkLawrence
07-16-2011, 07:24 AM
Replied on Private Message - but anytime you are in FLL - please - you are welcome to join us at the end of 9L!!!

Zee71
07-16-2011, 10:25 AM
Thanks for your support B6Bus driver (great handle!).

Lrusso
07-16-2011, 12:46 PM
Where in the world do I start... Let me first say this guy is a complete as*hole. I've been reading the forum for a long time now, I follow you on twitter and I love this site. It's a great place for news and insight into all things aviation. I can't believe that someone from my company would come on here and say these things to all of you. As one of the FLL based guys that was mentioned previously here as waving and smiling to the camera as of late, I'm sorry to see one of our own be so thoughtless. Let me acknoledge that he is correct our airline as well as all others do tell there crews in our yearly safety briefs to report all individuals and groups taking photos on and around airport property. This however is left to the descretion of the pilots and in most cases we all know what you all do and only on rare occations have to inform anyone. I hope that the invotation to come out with some of you can be extended my way too because I've seen some amazing photos out there and I'd like to meet some of the people behind the lens. I never post on things like this but I created this account just to rebutt what this guy was saying, trust me you all have friends in the flightdeck. In fact if any of you FLL guys are going to be out this beautiful morning I'll be flying flight 310 to IAD. Nothing special with this airplane though, I think the name is True Blue and the tail is the mosaic skeem. Anyway spot on my friends!

Terrific post! Excited for the A321?

B6Busdriver
07-16-2011, 07:44 PM
Excited for the growth without a doubt the 321 will be nice but for the pilots its just heavier we probably will just do a computer study program for the transition. No sim.

hiss srq
07-18-2011, 07:49 AM
B6, welcome aboard, nice to see brethren joining the ranks on the site. PM sent.

TSGSpotting
07-27-2011, 08:52 PM
I had a run in with an NYPD officer one time by the cargo hangers. It was about a year ago when I didnt know that area was off limits. The officer came up to the car took my dads drivers license and ran it in the system and said he was fine. But what he said after that really hurt my feelings a little. He asked why we were there from CT and my dad said he takes me here a lot and we come down and video tape planes. The officer then asked where we had been before that and we said a park under the approach (did not know the name was inwood). He was skeptical of this and then said "Well I suggest you go back to Connecticut cause its illegal to take pictures on airport grounds." We said ok and left all the way back to CT.

mgwsy
08-25-2011, 04:28 PM
LOL wow what a fun thread. Now you think this stuff is bad , try taking pictures of railroads! I work as an engineer for a RR and also take pics of trains. Yes we get the stupid Homeland Security memos to report anything and everything suspicious, but you can tell the railfans very easily. Point is we choose not to report it as it poses no danger to us. Also after a while you know who the regulars are anyways. Now if pilots on approach have the time to look around for people taking pics and not watching whats ahead of them then all I can say is it is not an airline I would want to fly. As for railfans there are lots of people who dont understand why someone would like to take pics of a dirty train. This post has brought up a lot of good points as to me I find it odd why people watch sports on TV or go hunting, but to each his own, most people have a hobby and enjoy it no matter how odd it may seem to others.

hiss srq
09-04-2011, 01:21 AM
MGWSY, absolutely fantastic post sir.

Zee71
09-04-2011, 07:49 AM
Nice write up Mark! That's exactly the point......everyone has a hobby or a passion of some sort....you with trains (which I think is cool), and us with planes. Just like golf.....I find it odd that some one would spend the whole day (even in the wee hours of the morning to tee off), and then try to hit a small ball in a cup some hundreds of yards away or fishermen trying to catch something, or some times catching nothing at all. Go figure! Those pilots shoulds have their hands on the yoke and feet on the pedals, and eyes on the instruments and the runway, not spotiting out the cockpit window.

Speedbird1
09-25-2011, 05:37 AM
Sad to hear how us spotters get harrassed. I also have been chased-away while spotting as well as got "strange" looks from passing motorists many times. I agree that taking photos is harmless but we stay for hours at the same place and jot-down tail numbers. To the average Joe, that is suspicious. As a senior, I long for the olden days when I was able to hang-out all day with my scanner, taking videos and photos and nobody cared. For me, it all changed after Lockerbie, with PAA 103. when they fenced-off, then finally closed the PanAm rooftop. That was a sign of things to come. It's sad that we can no longer do photography in public places and that everybody is suspicious of others. I can't even use the restrooms any more more in Central Park or enter playgrounds. Nothing is fun anymore; even taking videos of colorful signs at Las Vegas, brings suspicion. We used to give our house keys to next-door neighbors in case of emergency, but no more.