Latest on the Shuttle at Intrepid

[Speedbird1]

I visited the Intrepid pier last week. I spoke to a supervisor who claims the British Concorde, which is now is at the end of the pier, will be moved forward. The Shuttle Enterprise, will move into its old place. I figured-out why. By placing Concorde in front, it will block the view from 12th Ave. of the Shuttle forcing spectators to visit the Museum in order to get a close-up look. By the way, there's plenty of room for both the Shuttle and Concorde. The Shuttle is basically the size of the old DC-9 except for the higher tail.

[Zee71]

I think they should make an enclosed facility to habor the Concorde and Space Shuttle and protect it from the elements.

[moose135]

Well, the Shuttle has to be in an enclosed building - it is part of the requirements for receiving one from NASA.

[ch2tdriver]

The NYT is reporting on the Intrepid's new plan for Enterprise:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/29/nyregion/plans-to-build-museum-opposite-intrepid-to-house-enterprise.html?_r=2

"...
But five months after the Intrepid was awarded the shuttle Enterprise, museum officials have turned their attention from the end of the newly revamped pier to a parking lot on 12th Avenue, across the cacophonous West Side Highway. They envision converting the lot, which is surrounded by H & H Bagels, a car wash, storage warehouses and a strip club, into a space-themed museum that would serve as the home of the Enterprise and draw as many as one million visitors a year."

"...
In a report last month that concluded a review of the shuttle awards, NASA’s inspector general said the Enterprise would be moved from the Smithsonian to Kennedy International Airport in April 2012. It would be stored in a “climate-controlled tent” inside a hangar at the airport for about two years, then ferried on a barge to the Intrepid."

[PhilDernerJr]

Two years? That's lame. Why the hold up? I hope I get to see it in the mean time. Although I bet security will be tight, even for those lucky enough for various access.

[moose135]

Two years? That's lame. Why the hold up?
Engineering and architectural work, various construction and building permits, then construction. I can easily see it taking two years. It's not like they are just dropping it on the end of a pier out in the open.

[PhilDernerJr]

I realized that....but I hope it can be visited a little or something while it's at JFK.

But still....April 2012 could possibly call for the spotting event the century in my mind....a space shuttle coming to JFK?!?!

[steve1840]

I realized that....but I hope it can be visited a little or something while it's at JFK.

But still....April 2012 could possibly call for the spotting event the century in my mind....a space shuttle coming to JFK?!?!

I am there!! That would be the spotting trip of a lifetime!

[moose135]

But still....April 2012 could possibly call for the spotting event the century in my mind....a space shuttle coming to JFK?!?!
Oh, without a doubt, that's going to be an amazing arrival to shoot!

[Matt Molnar]

I hope it can be visited a little or something while it's at JFK.
I'd be shocked if it were open to the public, even for a brief special event.

[gonzalu]

One this is for sure, NASA has been very open about what will happen. It is posted prominently on their shuttle disposal site.

The Event at Dulles is going to be twice as fun as we get to see an Arrival and a Departure. I hear that the mated shuttle and SCA will be stored at a Hangar at JFK until Intrepid is ready for her. If there is any sense of hope, maybe someone at the port would have the ability to turn it into an opportunity to come in and see her and the SCA together.

Are there any shuttles going to any museum with the 747 as a package to be shown as they flew?

[PhilDernerJr]

The 747 will be kept here too?! Wow.

[gonzalu]

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2011/08/endeavour-discovery-swap-places-new-retirement-dates-planned/

[moose135]

The 747 will be kept here too?! Wow.
From Manny's link:

Once at JFK, the mated SCA/Enterprise duo will spend a month in storage as the offload equipment at JFK is configured. (The offload equipment at Dulles for Discovery will be flown out a good month in advance of Discovery’s arrival.) After a month in storage, Enterprise will be demated from the SCA and await the readiness of the Intrepid to receive her.
I suspect once the equipment is set up and the Shuttle removed, the 747 will depart. But yes, it appears they will be here as a unit for a month after arrival.

[PhilDernerJr]

I hope they do some flyby's around the city again before landing.

[Art at ISP]

I saw Enterprise today at the Udvar-Hazy museum at Dulles. The guide said it was going to NY in April but that it will be replaced in the museum by Discovery.

[Speedbagel_001]

What would really be cool is if on approach to JFK, they allowed the Enterprise to be disconnected from the 747 and glide home to a landing, like it did back in the old days. But I'm guessing it is far from "glide-worthy", and certainly nobody is going to pay to make it so for a publicity stunt like that. Still, one can dream...:cool:

[gonzalu]

I hope they do some flyby's around the city again before landing.

God forbid Phil, lest people think it is another terrorist attack... or worse, a stupid stunt by The PResident to get some snaps!!! Oh the madness of it! :tongue:

[Gerard]

God forbid Phil, lest people think it is another terrorist attack... or worse, a stupid stunt by The PResident to get some snaps!!! Oh the madness of it! :tongue:

I totally agree with Phil. It would be so great to see it flying around Manhattan. And as long as they make multiple media alerts I would see no problem with people feaking out. In fact I'll bet you non-spotting people would be out in droves to see something like that. Remember the AF1 debacle was because NO ONE alerted the media/public!!

[darlyn]

Personally I'd like to have a real shuttle in NYC instead of that Enterprise glider but it's better than nothing, I guess.

[PhilDernerJr]

People who say that simply do not know the history of Enterprise. Not to mention that NYC doesn't really DESERVE a shuttle compared to the contributions other places have made in space travel. We are VERY lucky we got anything, and the only reason we did is because of tourist traffic.

[darlyn]

I will admit that it was the shuttle test bed for the landing part but I'm still a bit disappointed that we won't get to see something with actual heat tiles and has actually been in orbit. There's a neat video of a less-than-ideal landing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDkfFkNHqpE

[PhilDernerJr]

That video alone shows one of the values of Enterprise...it's role in addressing the increased risk of pilot-induced oscillation in the shuttle.

I also think that Enterprise DOES have a set of heat tiles on it, no? I know that after the Columbia accident, they used Enterprise for testing to ensure that the rest of the shuttles and the entire program could operate safely for years to come.

[ch2tdriver]

Enterprise does have the RCC leading edge panels, and they were donated to NASA to confirm the theory behind the loss of Columbia. However, the tiles are not the genuine silica heat resistant ones but foam replicas. So effectively no...it does not have a heat shield.

Remember the original plan was to convert her to spaceworthyness. The issue was that NASA learned a lot in the construction of Columbia, and how to do things more effeciently. Namely how to save weight which resulted in increased payload. They realized that the amount of work needed to "undo" or backdate Enterprise was not worth the expense. They decided instead to take "STA-99" which was a ground stress test airframe, and build that into the next orbiter "Challenger".

Ironically it was STA-99 that demonstrated to NASA via stress testing just how much overbuild Columbia was in the first place. After Challenger was lost and a replacement shuttle was approved, the thought turned back to Enterprise for a refit. Again it was deemed to expensive. There were enough spare parts ordered for the fleet that it was more cost effective just to use them to build a new shuttle "Endeavor".

[darlyn]

It did not have heat tiles and was never space-worthy. I don't really care how much of a contributor to the program it was, I want to get up close to that space-weathered heat shield and thermal blacket, charred ruggedness the real shuttles have. That plastic look it has is downright disappointing. Luckily Discovery will only be a few hours' drive away in VA. NYC should have gotten it given that it has JFK as one of the mission-abort locations and lacks a good space museum.

[PhilDernerJr]

There are dozens of abort locations for the shuttle....what would make JFK so worthy on top of that? I can name other places, such as Houston, that are much for deserving of an actual shuttle. NYC is lucky we got anything. I mean no offense, darlyn, but it seems that so many New Yorkers have this sense of entitlement when it comes to the shuttle that I just don't understand.

[Tom_Turner]

It's gonna be great to have Enterprise here in NYC. It's plenty important in its own right.

[ch2tdriver]

It did not have heat tiles and was never space-worthy. I don't really care how much of a contributor to the program it was, I want to get up close to that space-weathered heat shield and thermal blacket, charred ruggedness the real shuttles have. That plastic look it has is downright disappointing. Luckily Discovery will only be a few hours' drive away in VA. NYC should have gotten it given that it has JFK as one of the mission-abort locations and lacks a good space museum.

I've NEVER heard of JFK as an abort location.

However, it's documented that FOK was one! Also the 106th out there was tasked with the role of search and rescue of the astronaut crews, should they have had to bail.

[darlyn]

Well, I guess I just made that up, then. Oh wait:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Shuttle_abort_modes#United_States

[Derf]

nobody accused you of making it up, I know about FOK and had never knew that JFK was one as well. Sorry but I do not know everything like most on this site.

[PhilDernerJr]

Yeah, aside from Wikipedia, it is true that JFK has been an alternate for a long time. No need for anyone to get upset.

[Speedbagel_001]

Never saw the whole list before - pretty cool to see the choices available.

One interesting site is the one listed under Hickam Airforce Base in Hawaii. Hickam is cool in that it shares it's runways with Honolulu International (PHNL). The one designated for the shuttle landing, had it been necessary, was 8R/26L - also known as "The Reef Runway". It's 12,000 feet long on a man-made reef, a few miles from downtown Waikiki.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b1/HNL_reef_runway.jpg

[PhilDernerJr]

Hickam is cool, but a LONG taxi out and in from the runway. You're literally taxiing for miles and you need to add extra fuel just to accommodate.

[gonzalu]

I have landed there... Very cool!

[Chris S]

The Intrepid has officially taken ownership of the Space Shuttle Enterprise and announced that a few months after touching down in New York next April, the Enterprise will be loaded onto a barge and ferried around the city to the museum. There it will be hoisted onto the flight deck and displayed under a "protective covering" until the new exhibition hall is ready.
Here's the link:
http://www.collectspace.com/news/news-112311a.html

[gonzalu]

$85 Million? Man, if that was built in the middle of the country, it would cost a 1/4 of that... New York City construction is stratospherically expensive!

[USAF Pilot 07]

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