JFK 03/30/2011

[eric8669]

was out this morning for a bit.

http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac155/southpawcaptures/20110330-IMG_9376.jpg

http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac155/southpawcaptures/20110330-IMG_9411.jpg

http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac155/southpawcaptures/20110330-IMG_9499.jpg

http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac155/southpawcaptures/20110330-IMG_9516.jpg

http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac155/southpawcaptures/20110330-IMG_9661.jpg

http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac155/southpawcaptures/20110330-IMG_9717.jpg

http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac155/southpawcaptures/20110330-IMG_9759.jpg

Please view the rest of the gallery here.
http://southpawcaptures.squarespace.com/recent-spotting-pictures/jfk-march-30th-2011/


Thanks for looking...

[steve1840]

First off nice set!

Now I gotta ask, since me and Kaz were trying to figure it out on Saturday.......How do you guys get the taxiing shots from Bayswater and not have the heat shimmer show up? Is it just based on the time of day that you go? Or just luck?

[moose135]

Very nice, Eric! I really like the head-on shots.

[eric8669]

First off nice set!

Now I gotta ask, since me and Kaz were trying to figure it out on Saturday.......How do you guys get the taxiing shots from Bayswater and not have the heat shimmer show up? Is it just based on the time of day that you go? Or just luck?

Thanks Steve. I get asked that all the time. Its a trade secret.lol

[steve1840]

Thanks Steve. I get asked that all the time. Its a trade secret.lol

Aw man.......Lol

Guess I'll be doin some experimenting next time down.

[RomNYC]

Great reflections on the water! Lovely set Eric.

[NIKV69]

First off nice set!

Now I gotta ask, since me and Kaz were trying to figure it out on Saturday.......How do you guys get the taxiing shots from Bayswater and not have the heat shimmer show up? Is it just based on the time of day that you go? Or just luck?

Time of day and angle you are shooting the aircraft play a part as does the temps between air and ground or water. Wiki has a good paragraph on it. If you are at Bayswater at sunrise you run more chance or having a less difference in air and ground temp but once the sun warms the air forget it.

Cold air is denser than warm air and has therefore a greater refractive index (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refractive_index). As light passes from colder air across a sharp boundary to significantly warmer air, the light rays bend away from the direction of the temperature gradient (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gradient). When light rays pass from hotter to colder, they bend toward the direction of the gradient. If the air near the ground is warmer than that higher up, the light ray bends in a concave, upward trajectory

So it's hardly a trade secret but more of a case of getting up early. Not to mention at Bayswater you have all that water that throws even more into the mix with all that water too.

[eric8669]

Time of day and angle you are shooting the aircraft play a part as does the temps between air and ground or water. Wiki has a good paragraph on it. If you are at Bayswater at sunrise you run more chance or having a less difference in air and ground temp but once the sun warms the air forget it.

Cold air is denser than warm air and has therefore a greater refractive index (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refractive_index). As light passes from colder air across a sharp boundary to significantly warmer air, the light rays bend away from the direction of the temperature gradient (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gradient). When light rays pass from hotter to colder, they bend toward the direction of the gradient. If the air near the ground is warmer than that higher up, the light ray bends in a concave, upward trajectory

So it's hardly a trade secret but more of a case of getting up early. Not to mention at Bayswater you have all that water that throws even more into the mix with all that water too.

hardly getting up early as all these shots were taken after 9AM. Good read though.

All I know is I do change my camera settings to shoot across and yes the angle you are at definitely is a factor.

[steve1840]

That makes sense. Would explain why once the planes get off the ground on takeoff the heat shimmer either goes away or goes mostly away since that temperature boundry isn't there anymore. Or at least not as much.

Does it also have anything to do with trying to zoom in on the planes across the bay there too? I hear people talk about when you zoom to say 400mm, you are compressing more of the air between you and the subject than you would if you were to shoot it at 300mm. Does that play into it also, and exaggerate it?

[NIKV69]

All I know is I do change my camera settings to shoot across

You change your settings to get rid of heat haze? How? As for time of morning it's relative like anything else. Not to mention shooting over water gives you a bigger buffer since water warms up in the sun much slower than pavement or asphalt. In fact if all that water was airport tarmac like at LAX or LAS it would be much different once the sun broke the horizon. I am sure once the sun gets stronger earlier it would be slightly different but I was trying to give Steve an answer.

[seahawks7757]

Yummy, you are making me crave JFK so bad right now.

[eric8669]

You change your settings to get rid of heat haze? How? As for time of morning it's relative like anything else. I am sure once the sun gets stronger earlier it would be slightly different but I was trying to give Steve an answer.

No, I mean I have different settings from when I shoot the planes landing on 4R and the taxi shots on 4L. I also change where I am standing. I'm not saying it helps or not.

[NIKV69]

No, I mean I have different settings from when I shoot the planes landing on 4R and the taxi shots on 4L. I also change where I am standing. I'm not saying it helps or not.

Oh I am sorry Eric my mistake I mis-understood you.

[NLovis]

Yummy, you are making me crave JFK so bad right now.

Want to trade? I wouldnt mind shooting some 787 and 748 aircraft.

[eric8669]

That makes sense. Would explain why once the planes get off the ground on takeoff the heat shimmer either goes away or goes mostly away since that temperature boundry isn't there anymore. Or at least not as much.

Does it also have anything to do with trying to zoom in on the planes across the bay there too? I hear people talk about when you zoom to say 400mm, you are compressing more of the air between you and the subject than you would if you were to shoot it at 300mm. Does that play into it also, and exaggerate it?

Well you pretty much need 400mm to shoot across the bay

[MarkLawrence]

Nice shots Eric - those head ons are so clear! And - I love the AA Friendship Independence...

[Zee71]

Great set Eric.......that Jamaica looks sweet.

[eric8669]

Nice shots Eric - those head ons are so clear! And - I love the AA Friendship Independence...

Thanks Mark.... Bayswater was kind to me today....

[gonzalu]

Steve, you most certainly can use 1000 mm if you like... you as a photographer must keep in mind what's going on, it is not just going to work LOL. So if you're 4000 feet away from your subject and you want to fill the frame and you need 800mm, you WILL compress a lot of heat shimmer, it is unavoidable, it is THERE!!

Here are some trade secrets revealed:

MegaPixels: The more you have in this case, the better. When you have 50 more pixels on a bent line at full size, it will straighten out a lot better to 1 pixel than if it was recorded with 25 pixels (hope that made sense)
Distance: Reduce it to the minimum. at Bayswater, get as close to the water as possible and go by the wall... this gives you a better head on shot and puts you a little bit closer ;-)
Take Lots of shots: Currents come and go, some are stronger than others.. .one shot will be better than others. Luck and Statistics do help
Keep trying: Shoot every day all day long, you will get a great shot some day (Eric has LOTS AND LOTS of practice, he is now a natural pro at it)
SHARPNESS: Critical sharpness is very important. The sharper the original, the better. IF you have shimmer, you would have a more salvageable image if it was sharper to begin with.
Other Planes: MAKE SURE no other planes are in the area. ALL of them are spewing super hot exhaust, on a busy afternoon, that area around the takeoff chevrons is a heat dump :-)
WAIT: Always wait a while after the last plane took off... this reduces the heat left behind by the takeoff.

I will go out on a limb and ask Eric for a 100% crop ... I am betting the shimmer is there :tongue: but at 18MP, and if he got sharp results and minimized the distance, etc. etc., he would have a much better starting point than if it had been slightly OOF or motion blurred.

This was from Bayswater... the plane is on taxiway Alpha Kilo, just north of 31L. The distance was about 2.28648 km or 7,000 feet+ -- 10:30am, October 31st 2010, it was not that cold but it was cool. Also a LOT MORE tarmac and asphalt between me and it than if it were on 4L. The Delta in the BG was REALLY far lol... and it has some shimmer. But the Saudi has very little if any. Why? For one, that day, I got lucky with the heat. I also used my monopod to steady the heavy lens as much as possible...

http://pictures.mannyphoto.com/Airplanes/Spotting/JFK-10312010/MAG9740/1073989547_QVW2T-O.jpg

[eric8669]

Steve, you most certainly can use 1000 mm if you like... you as a photographer must keep in mind what's going on, it is not just going to work LOL. So if you're 4000 feet away from your subject and you want to fill the frame and you need 800mm, you WILL compress a lot of heat shimmer, it is unavoidable, it is THERE!!

Here are some trade secrets revealed:

MegaPixels: The more you have in this case, the better. When you have 50 more pixels on a bent line at full size, it will straighten out a lot better to 1 pixel than if it was recorded with 25 pixels (hope that made sense)
Distance: Reduce it to the minimum. at Bayswater, get as close to the water as possible and go by the wall... this gives you a better head on shot and puts you a little bit closer ;-)
Take Lots of shots: Currents come and go, some are stronger than others.. .one shot will be better than others. Luck and Statistics do help
Keep trying: Shoot every day all day long, you will get a great shot some day (Eric has LOTS AND LOTS of practice, he is now a natural pro at it)
SHARPNESS: Critical sharpness is very important. The sharper the original, the better. IF you have shimmer, you would have a more salvageable image if it was sharper to begin with.
Other Planes: MAKE SURE no other planes are in the area. ALL of them are spewing super hot exhaust, on a busy afternoon, that area around the takeoff chevrons is a heat dump :-)
WAIT: Always wait a while after the last plane took off... this reduces the heat left behind by the takeoff.

I will go out on a limb and ask Eric for a 100% crop ... I am betting the shimmer is there :tongue: but at 18MP, and if he got sharp results and minimized the distance, etc. etc., he would have a much better starting point than if it had been slightly OOF or motion blurred.

This was from Bayswater... the plane is on taxiway Alpha Kilo, just north of 31L. The distance was about 2.28648 km or 7,000 feet+ -- 10:30am, October 31st 2010, it was not that cold but it was cool. Also a LOT MORE tarmac and asphalt between me and it than if it were on 4L. The Delta in the BG was REALLY far lol... and it has some shimmer. But the Saudi has very little if any. Why? For one, that day, I got lucky with the heat. I also used my monopod to steady the heavy lens as much as possible...





Yup, using the wall or a tripod is very important. I use the wall sometimes, but I also find if you are higher above the water I tend to get good shots. Sometimes you may find me further down the beach up on the incline. I would say go early in the morning, bring a tripod, and as Manny says just shoot a lot.

[steve1840]

Yes that does make sense Manny. I have been itching to go out and buy a good monopod lately and now I definitely will be investing in one and combining that with the rest of the "trade secrets" that you have just mentioned. Then my next step will be to find someplace where I can practice and try different things (i.e. angle, distance, etc), since I can't obviously go to Bayswater, etc all the time like you guys can.

[gonzalu]

This was on Nov 1st a day later... 5:30pm

http://manny.smugmug.com/photos/1234934765_a7TH3-L.jpg

[eric8669]

This was on Nov 1st a day later... 5:30pm

http://manny.smugmug.com/photos/1234934765_a7TH3-L.jpg


or stay late......

[gonzalu]

Eric, thanks for reminding that HEIGHT has a lot to do with it too... That's another tip, get higher so you are at an ANGLE to the subject and compressing LESS of the heat near you...

As for the wall, yes, us e it as support... I also have STOOD on top of it to get higher above the water ;-) and Eric, I have considered going down to the beach past the wall as well to get in-line with the rwy, but I feel much lower than at the concrete slab /\/\ ??? have to try it.

[gonzalu]

I took some shots at SXM to illustrate how bad it can get shooting close to the ground... This was JUST 200mm, and subject distance was not great, 900 feet or so. Just 10 feet off the ground was 50% better and by 100 feet the effect was mostly gone.

Please click on the image to see the FULL SIZED original and really see what it looks like at 100%

http://manny.smugmug.com/photos/1234940668_4ZY2s-M.jpg (http://manny.smugmug.com/photos/1234940668_4ZY2s-O.jpg)

[gonzalu]

Eric, I feel bad... I hijacked your thread and never said AWESOME stuff... you managed once again to pwn me by enjoying a calm, almost WIND-FREE morning at Bayswater... how in the world? I have been there 100 times and it is always blowing pretty hard. Would love to get some reflection shots... great stuff as usual!

[eric8669]

Eric, I feel bad... I hijacked your thread and never said AWESOME stuff... you managed once again to pwn me by enjoying a calm, almost WIND-FREE morning at Bayswater... how in the world? I have been there 100 times and it is always blowing pretty hard. Would love to get some reflection shots... great stuff as usual!


no worries and thanks.

I mean going down the beach to the south. The park sort of goes up hill. its a different vantage/angle.

[gonzalu]

I see what you mean... to the left.. OK. I wanted to go to the right to get more in line with the end of the RWY.

Most people don't realize that Bayswater park is NOT aligned with the take-off pad or chevrons at the end of 4L...

[eric8669]

I see what you mean... to the left.. OK. I wanted to go to the right to get more in line with the end of the RWY.

Most people don't realize that Bayswater park is NOT aligned with the take-off pad or chevrons at the end of 4L...


The Solution is----------> We need a boat!

[steve1840]

The Solution is----------> We need a boat!

Definitely!

[moose135]

The Solution is----------> We need a boat!
Right - a nice warm summer day, a bunch of NYCA photogs in a boat, add a little beer, and someone's camera is going for a swim...:frown:

[eric8669]

Right - a nice warm summer day, a bunch of NYCA photogs in a boat, add a little beer, and someone's camera is going for a swim...:frown:


Don't forget the fishing polls.lol

[fk6065]

Wonderful images Eric, Manny thanks for the "tips"

[Vivek777Kaul]

Just love how sharp the AA 767 came out...SYD has heat haze problems in winter...these are so well shot