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View Full Version : JFK - The Mounds 2/28/11



Zee71
02-28-2011, 06:01 PM
Here are my images. Firstly, we were by the mounds waiting. Then about 1300 a NYPD cruiser (with two young POs in my view) pulls up and asks what are you doing? Duh........taking pictures of planes (not my exact words). It's our hobby and we're waiting for an inaugural flight today, which is due in soon. The were polite, and asked us to leave because the school principal called in. He didn't even want to see our ID's, etc. I even stated that this is a public street and didn't want to hear it. Then he mentions "911", oh boy (by the way a high school friend of mine died in one of the towers) ....... I did not want to get in a pissing match, and didn't want to miss the Lufthansa, so we left. The NYPD cruiser parked by the school and waited till we left (and probably stayed there). I was so tempted to go back to speak to the principal to inform him/her and educate the individual about aviation photography, spotting, etc. Fortunately for us as were driving hunting for a location to shoot the Lufthansa A380, when they switched runways from the 22s to 31s. We made a bee line for Inwood. Unfortunately the light was ugly.



http://mbsphotography.smugmug.com/Aviation/Airplanes-and-Spotting/Kennedy-JFK/Lufthansa03JFK28Feb2011/1201767401_97qoK-L.jpg

http://mbsphotography.smugmug.com/Aviation/Airplanes-and-Spotting/Kennedy-JFK/Lufthansa04JFK28Feb2011/1201838192_puTqv-L.jpg

http://mbsphotography.smugmug.com/Aviation/Airplanes-and-Spotting/Kennedy-JFK/Lufthansa02JFK28Feb2011/1201767745_CfdfX-L.jpg

gonzalu
02-28-2011, 06:35 PM
Too bad about the cops. Were you guys in the street or at the mounds themselves? Is the mounds School property?

911? Do they know that on 911 the people who committed the most insane crime against the US actually were passengers? Not photographers? That they actually PILOTED the airplanes into buildings? That is just plain ignorant. I don;t mind someone telling me, GET OUT OF HERE BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT WELCOME... fine.. but to make ignorant statements is just plain silly. Fine education our kids are getting. That is no worse than saying we all personally hate all Muslims which is so much not true :frown:

Well, glad it turned out OK in the end... we DO NOT WANT ANYONE ARRESTED people... evr for any reason... don;t get arrested, especially for a dumb move! Nice idea to just move. There is a park actually alongside Brookville where it is just underneath the flight path so may be OK for a do or die situation to "get the shot"

I have a few alternate spots scouted out for such an occasion :cool:

NIKV69
02-28-2011, 06:38 PM
Guys please if the police ask you to leave just do it. We usually only shoot there in summer when the school is not an issue but we don't need to jeopardize a prime spot because of a plane coming in the rain do we?

gonzalu
02-28-2011, 06:46 PM
Nick, I think it worked out just like that so no worries... I am not one to confront the cops... not looking to become another Rodney King :cool: so I would have left immediately as well. But it would be good to know if the spot belongs to the city as a park or is it part of the school grounds, is it part of JFK given that part of the landing system is visible from the mound? Does it belong to the AMB Logistics center? I am always apprehensive about going over the fence and never had an issue with the PD before ... just general questions that may be obvious to the veterans but totally unknown to newbies like me

As for the need to shoot a plane in the rain at all costs, I guess you have your addiction under control... I sure am not and feel far from controlling it. Today it took a lot of power to stay in the office! :tongue:

Thanks

NIKV69
02-28-2011, 06:54 PM
Nick, I think it worked out just like that so no worries..

Actually we should be really worried. I don't mean to preach here but think about the big picture and others. Nobody has really shot at the mounds in winter because the light sucks, now if you want to take nose shots there I am all for it but now you have gotten the attention of the school. It's a longshot but we do risk having an issue that will carry over into the summer months when that spot is prime. Not to mention in general even if your told to move, just do it. I have been kicked out of firestone by a cop who didn't want to hear it and I just did it. I went to Costco, let things cool and then went back. It's just using some common sense. I was not referring to you, I was replying to Marks post but come on guys. There is a way to do things here no matter what is arriving.

PhilDernerJr
02-28-2011, 07:13 PM
Surprised the Principal did that, as we've been going there so often in such large groups for so long. I almost wonder whether the cop was telling the truth about that to begin with.

Either way, though you were within your rights and not doing anything wrong, I'm glad you complied with his request and actually left. Thankfully you still got some nice shots.

NIKV69
02-28-2011, 07:28 PM
anyway who cares, I have my inaugural flight shots

Exactly



Phil : Cop said that principal called and then he showed us a piece of paper with our reg numbers on it....

Now that you have aroused the attention of school officials wouldn't it be prudent to lay low from the mounds a little while? I am just saying use a little common sense. Something that wasn't used at cargo plaza.

RomNYC
02-28-2011, 07:34 PM
Now that you have aroused the attention of school officials wouldn't it be prudent to lay low from the mounds a little while? I am just saying use a little common sense. Something that wasn't used at cargo plaza.

I understand your point, and others. However, I don't quite see what the problem is to be sitting in your own car...

Anyway, whenever I am approached by officers, and when they're done with me, I always ask for permission to stick around. So far, I've always gotten a yes. If I'm told to leave, then I will, no questions asked.

In any case, yes, it would blow big time if the Mounds or any other spot became inaccessible for any of us... But if people can't even sit inside their car, then I should call the police 20 times a day as I walk the streets of NY...

Was planning to catch early departures at the Mounds tomorrow... Hmmm...

NIKV69
02-28-2011, 07:47 PM
I understand your point, and others. However, I don't quite see what the problem is to be sitting in your own car...

Anyway, whenever I am approached by officers, and when they're done with me, I always ask for permission to stick around. So far, I've always gotten a yes. If I'm told to leave, then I will, no questions asked.

In any case, yes, it would blow big time if the Mounds or any other spot became inaccessible for any of us... But if people can't even sit inside their car, then I should call the police 20 times a day as I walk the streets of NY...

Was planning to catch early departures at the Mounds tomorrow... Hmmm...

There is no problem sitting on your own car but this is a unique situation. Nobody has ever shot at the mounds in winter but now we have a few that do, great, but now you have gotten noticed by someone that could potentially be an issue. Not saying it will just saying it should be kept in mind going forward. We let behavior at cargo plaza get out of control and we lost it. Is that private property? Sure but by using our heads we were able to shoot there and now we can't. Can it happen at the mounds? Probably not but stranger things have happened.




Was planning to catch early departures at the Mounds tomorrow... Hmmm...

What departures? If you mean 4 you need to go to woodmere park. Hey I can't tell you what to do but going back to the mounds tomorrow would be foolish IMO but if you do and you are approached by unfriendly police that ask you to leave just comply.

chrisparypa
02-28-2011, 07:58 PM
It was weird situation but nobody made any problems we just left saying: that's ok, we understand.... we left and we didn't come back like police officers asked us to do. Mark asked him if this is ok if we will stay in the car he said: NO you must leave and we left.... end of the story.... weird cuz yesterday we met Police officer at the mounds who was very nice and he asked about websites and inaugural Lufthansa flight... for some reason I don't believe that principal called cops, as Phil said they know us at the mounds right ?? Someone called but Im not sure it was principal....

RomNYC
02-28-2011, 08:01 PM
What departures? If you mean 4 you need to go to woodmere park. Hey I can't tell you what to do but going back to the mounds tomorrow would be foolish IMO but if you do and you are approached by unfriendly police that ask you to leave just comply.

I do my 4 departures from the Mounds...

Then, Manny was absolutely right before... what is and what is not private property over there? My car is, 149th Ave is not.

NIKV69
02-28-2011, 08:05 PM
It was weird situation but nobody made any problems we just left saying: that's ok, we understand.... we left and we didn't come back like police officers asked us to do. Mark asked him if this is ok if we will stay in the car he said: NO you must leave and we left.... end of the story.... weird cuz yesterday we met Police officer and the mounds who was very nice and he asked about websites and inaugural Lufthansa flight... for some reason I don't believe that principal called cops, as Phil said they know us at the mounds right ?? Someone called but Im not sure it was principal....

You will get that once in a blue, last year or year before myself and Jakub got the same thing at Firestone. Really wierd officer who was pleasant but made it clear he wanted us out. We didn't say anything, just left and went to either Boston Market or Costco, let things cool for a couple of weeks and went back. It's a cycle but it's a good practice. Better to just cut your losses for a day, it pays off down the road.

NIKV69
02-28-2011, 08:07 PM
I do my 4 departures from the Mounds...

Then, Manny was absolutely right before... what is and what is not private property over there? My car is, 149th Ave is not.

Your safer on the soccer field, IIRC that park is a NYS public park.

Eric great shot!

Zee71
02-28-2011, 08:07 PM
Firstly, obey the law!!! Which is what we did, but it just nagged me inside.......yesterday we had a terriffic day with the law and today we were on the otherside of the spectrum. I would not make a big deal of this. Can't wait to see Eric's images.

Next time I shoot from the mounds I'll be under the rock, just like the guy in the GEICO commercial .... LOL

NIKV69
02-28-2011, 08:16 PM
Firstly, obey the law!!! Which is what we did, but it just nagged me inside.......yesterday we had a terriffic day with the law and today we were on the otherside of the spectrum. I would not make a big deal of this. Can't wait to see Eric's images.

Next time I shoot from the mounds I'll be under the rock, just like the guy in the GEICO commercial .... LOL

Police are like anything else. 99 times out of a hundred you will get good ones. 1 time not. I would walk up on the hill so nobody can see you when you shoot there. Sitting on that road you will get the police called quick, especially if School is in.

PhilDernerJr
02-28-2011, 08:37 PM
Nobody has really shot at the mounds in winter because the light sucks.

First, I think it's wrong to say that The Mounds are only used in the summer. You may not think that the light is bad by your own preferences, but it is still usable and a scroll-down on this site will show you that it's used constantly. It's just not true, and I don't know why you actually believe this, Nick.

I also don't think that we should derail our normal, safe and legal planespotting activities because of the thought that the principal called the police. First, I don't completely believe he/she did (police have lied many times in the past about who called and they have no obligation to do so), and if we were on some sort of private property and are "pushing our luck" by being there.

The fact is that this is not a "cargo plaza" situation. If the school keeps calling the cops we DO have a leg to stand on. It's a park that we have a right to be at. If something WERE to escalate, and right now we have NO reason to think that there's anything actually WRONG here. But if something were to happen, we can call for a meeting with the school and police (who know us for the most part anyway) to talk it out (friendly).

We're been going there for YEARS, MOST of which is during the school year (July and August are obviously not the only months we go there), with groups of over 35 at times. Really guys...there's a lot of overreaction going on here. One person calling the cops doesn't mean we're about to lose a spotting location.

NIKV69
02-28-2011, 08:49 PM
First, I think it's wrong to say that The Mounds are only used in the summer. You may not think that the light is bad by your own preferences, but it is still usable and a scroll-down on this site will show you that it's used constantly. It's just not true, and I don't know why you actually believe this, Nick.


Ok Phil, sure people shoot in winter but it has only been recently that it has been used en masse in the winter which is why this encounter happened. Probably the first time any spotter has been asked to leave.


I also don't think that we should derail our normal, safe and legal planespotting activities because of the thought that the principal called the police. First, I don't completely believe he/she did (police have lied many times in the past about who called and they have no obligation to do so), and if we were on some sort of private property and are "pushing our luck" by being there.


Never said derail just give it a break. Also probably better to actually be in the park and not in street. As for not believing the police that is your opinion but chances are they did get a call from someone.


The fact is that this is not a "cargo plaza" situation. If the school keeps calling the cops we DO have a leg to stand on. It's a park that we have a right to be at. If something WERE to escalate, and right now we have NO reason to think that there's anything actually WRONG here. But if something were to happen, we can call for a meeting with the school and police (who know us for the most part anyway) to talk it out (friendly).


True but as far as the cargo plaza situation goes we could have still been shooting there today if some common sense was used. Simple fact. By being reactive and not PROACTIVE we let an out of towner ruin a great spot regardless of whether it was private property or not.

ANITIX87
02-28-2011, 09:12 PM
Guys, I think we're all missing something here.

I believe the principal called, but I do not think it was because people we out plane spotting. If anything, he/she would have called because gentlemen were outside a school for children with professional photography equipment.

I am willing to bet that he/she called out of concern for the students, and NOT because of the plane spotting. Nick is right, it may be prudent to stay away from the Mounds on weekdays for this reason. We don't want anyone to get the wrong impression from our hobby. While the police officer may have brought up 9/11, it could have been a way for him to "save face" when he realized, "Wait, these guys aren't here for the kids, they're here for the planes. How can I get them to leave to appease the principal?"

That's my two cents.

TIS

NIKV69
02-28-2011, 09:19 PM
Guys, I think we're all missing something here.

I believe the principal called, but I do not think it was because people we out plane spotting. If anything, he/she would have called because gentlemen were outside a school for children with professional photography equipment.

I am willing to bet that he/she called out of concern for the students, and NOT because of the plane spotting. Nick is right, it may be prudent to stay away from the Mounds on weekdays for this reason. We don't want anyone to get the wrong impression from our hobby. While the police officer may have brought up 9/11, it could have been a way for him to "save face" when he realized, "Wait, these guys aren't here for the kids, they're here for the planes. How can I get them to leave to appease the principal?"

That's my two cents.

TIS

They were called because they saw suspicious activity. Also I don't think we have to stop spotting weekdays, just give it a few days before going back and then not shooting from the street. It seems everytime I call for a little caution Phil likes to sound the alarm that I am freaking out. I am not freaking out, just asking people to use a little common sense so we don't get into a situation like Phil mentioned where people have to meet with people and have to "talk it out". Isn't it better to avoid that? I learned a few things hanging around campaigns like Rubios, and Brewer last year. Sometimes even when you are right it's better to deflect and not engage.

RomNYC
02-28-2011, 09:59 PM
So to put it simply, this thread is just going this way >>>> http://nycaviation.com/forum/threads/26353-Cargo-plaza-10-1

...

NIKV69
02-28-2011, 10:05 PM
So to put it simply, this thread is just going this way >>>> http://nycaviation.com/forum/threads/26353-Cargo-plaza-10-1

...

Bit of a stretch but no, that area is airport property, the soccer field isn't. Phil is right that if things got out of control we could fight and remain I am just saying why do that when you can just take a few days off and get the same result. That thread does remind me of my epic signature line, I may have to bring it back for Mario.

Delta777LR
03-01-2011, 01:27 AM
I remembered at one point at Firestone that Nick and I was asked to leave by an Auxurlury officer, which I found that funny, and we went by Costco on a day that an Aeromexico 777 was coming. Jakub meet up with us, then we see a guy in a SUV like eyeing us and starts to go out of his mind and says that he dont like the fact of us taking pictures and he threat to call the cops, but things got better and still it was a great day..

NIKV69
03-01-2011, 10:14 AM
LOL Sergio yea I remember that! That guy was nuts. I wish I had my crap car with me I would have probably would have rammed him because he was actually trying to block me from leaving.

Delta777LR
03-01-2011, 10:46 AM
bottom line is, all of us is always going to be encountered often, you may get a good cop that might actually like our hobby, or may get a cop that may have one of those atitudes or i should say (a bug up his behind) and just ask us to leave.. If i get that, I just take off no questions asked. But for all of us, dont think you did something wrong if asked to leave by cops, try to walk away with a smile and say to yourself (wow this day turned out great!).. Always try to keep things possitive.. Always carry ID, we all will be fine..:wink:

Zee71
03-01-2011, 12:51 PM
Firstly, who knows if the cop actually received a call from the principal or not. Maybe it's best to educate the educator's.

This is wishful thinking, but I would like to have a sit down with the principal and educate them on plane spotting and why they may see strangers with camera's near by. I would also mention that we are a community of professionals (not some bunch of derelicts), that are passionate about aviation and photography. We are very vigilant and observant of our surroundings. If there was a stranger that didn't look a spotter, we would most likely be the first to report it to the local police. I totally understand the sensitivity issue with school childeren, but having people around would provide more of a deterrent than not having anyone around.

I plan on hitting the mounds after work today if they're using the 22s (but this would be way after school hours), but I'll be on the park grounds sitting on a bench.

RomNYC
03-01-2011, 01:15 PM
I had the same thinking Mark. Hey, we can push it and imagine that it would be a nice occasion for the teachers to bring the kids out of the classroom for an hour, and teach them something... Not just about planes, but about where they come from... a sort of geography lesson or something. Would be a nice way to make these youngsters realize that they live in one of the biggest cities in the world, and that they have millions of people from all countries flying over their heads everyday.

Like you said, this is wishful thinking but I don't think that'd be impossible to arrange...

gonzalu
03-01-2011, 02:47 PM
LOL Sergio yea I remember that! That guy was nuts. I wish I had my crap car with me I would have probably would have rammed him because he was actually trying to block me from leaving.

I just got a visual Nick... great laugh :-)

NIKV69
03-01-2011, 03:02 PM
I just got a visual Nick... great laugh :-)

Oh yea that guy was a lunatic Sergio can tell you. He kept asking me why my windows are so dark and why I have no front license plate. I actually made Jakub leave in his car so he wouldn't get involved then told the guy I wasn't going to tell him again to get out of my way. It was awesome. Still the best was shooting by myself at the mounds some guy tried to make me stay while he called police. I was going to cave his head in with my monopod because he got a little too in my face. He then tried to stand behind my car to prevent me from leaving. I also told him he better move or I would back right over him. It was epic.

megatop412
03-01-2011, 08:22 PM
I was headed west on Rockaway Blvd towards Brookville, when I turned to my Mom and said "isn't today a regular school day?" and she was like "of course it is, it isn't a holiday." As I approached the Peninsula Blvd intersection I slowed up and thought about it, a school in session, a crowd of people, big ass cameras...so I took the right on Peninsula and headed to North Woodmere. Of course, in the end it didn't help that they changed the runways, but I felt being conservative was a better bet.

I still had to race my ass off anyway. Which goes back to, as much as you and I and all of us know this is a fun hobby and we're all friends here, in the end, people on the outside just don't get it. Even when I give one of my lines to someone like "You know how much Madden likes football? Well that's how much I like planes, period" people just don't get it. They may nod their head and go "Ohhh, OK" but I can see it on their face that it makes no sense, and when something confuses someone and there's any kind of an association to "9/11" the'd rather be a coward about it and call the police.

If it's anyone I know, even a friend of a friend, I say to them "your homework assignment is to watch the South Park episode about 9/11, then we can talk."

gonzalu
03-01-2011, 08:48 PM
If we were to associate everything with 9/11, we could not even look at planes flying over head. I don;t ever see any of these folks who see us out in the open for HOURS and happy and joyful ever wonder about WHICH CAR on Rockaway right where planes cross over, or on the parking lots of the Costco or any other place along the way... if they TRULY TRULY worried, they owuld think about how silly that only we out in the open in a very busy parking lot would be up to no good. That there are hundreds of little streets behind the Starbucks where I can park my car and not be seen... or even in Costco or Panera parking, what about ALL THE OTHER people and cars? Just because they are not out with a camera wide open in public and ... let me stop.

I truly sometimes feel like calling in and saying, I want to report a person parking their car in front of Staples, and they are headed in the direction of Wendy's not sure if their intentions are sound... they have a very large purse and what looks to be a baby carriage. Just thought I'd report it because there are planes overhead and well, 9/11... thank you officers.

Anyway, I think it's time to resurface this treasure!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VM9CiywyTk

NIKV69
03-01-2011, 09:01 PM
He asked her if she is an Aborigine! LOL

RomNYC
03-01-2011, 09:08 PM
"Gimme the film in the camera".... bhahahahaaha.

RE-TARD.

gonzalu
03-01-2011, 09:11 PM
"Drill Sergeant"

nssd70
03-01-2011, 09:53 PM
She seems sweet!

Doug

RomNYC
03-01-2011, 10:25 PM
She seems sweet!

Doug

She looks F.A.T.

fk6065
03-01-2011, 10:38 PM
I went to the mounds around 1:15PM Monday and had no problem, except for them switching to 31. There were actually a few of NYPD's Finest there and they were complete gentlemen and stayed to watch and were equally disappointed when they switched runways.

v1rotate
03-01-2011, 10:44 PM
I went to the mounds around 1:15PM Monday and had no problem, except for them switching to 31. There were actually a few of NYPD's Finest there and they were complete gentlemen and stayed to watch and were equally disappointed when they switched runways.

I believe that you were the photographer that I met yesterday at the mounds. Did you manage to catch a photo of that Lufthansa A380? There was an Emirates A380 that flew in a few minutes after that I managed to catch while in traffic.

megatop412
03-02-2011, 05:21 PM
Ok Phil, sure people shoot in winter but it has only been recently that it has been used en masse in the winter which is why this encounter happened. Probably the first time any spotter has been asked to leave.



Never said derail just give it a break. Also probably better to actually be in the park and not in street. As for not believing the police that is your opinion but chances are they did get a call from someone.



True but as far as the cargo plaza situation goes we could have still been shooting there today if some common sense was used. Simple fact. By being reactive and not PROACTIVE we let an out of towner ruin a great spot regardless of whether it was private property or not.


What do you mean we lost the cargo plaza? I still shoot from there when needed. I just don't do anything that attracts attention. Are you saying that we lost it as an "offical" spot as far as the guides on this site are concerned? Or did someone promise PAPD we wouldn't shoot from there? Because I have no plans to abandon that spot.

And by the way, I would never even APPROACH those landing lights- that ground is more sacred than the stage Mola Ram used to tear people's hearts out on. Little Indiana Jones reference there.

PhilDernerJr
03-02-2011, 05:26 PM
The cargo area is really a spot that we shouldn't discuss attending in public here, just like with other unofficial spotting locations.

Zee71
03-02-2011, 07:10 PM
As Sergeant Schultz would say............"I know nothing"