Total noob JFK question

[RomNYC]

Hey guys,

The search function of this forum could probably help me, I apologize if this has been posted before.

A friend of mine is leaving from JFK to MIA on Sunday. After I drop him off, I am planning to spend a few hours of spotting. Now, here's my question: is there a way for me to know precisely which runway his plane is going to take off from, and to know precisely which plane it is going to be when I actually see it.

The plan is just to take some pictures - good or bad - of that plane.

I have a few iPhone apps but I don't find them very accurate. Got Live ATC but I admit that my noob status doesn't allow me to understand - or even "hear" - the lingo used.

I don't have the flight info right now - I should probably get my hands on this first - but it will most likely be AA on a 757 I think. Besides worrying about my friend's particular flight, is there anything, tools, apps, etc... that would allow me precisely to know what flight it is when I see/shoot it?

Thanks folks!

[Lrusso]

Kennedy ATIS 718-995-8188 should give you the Approach in Use and Departing Runway.

[RomNYC]

Well I already use this (before I leave to the airport): http://www4.passur.com/jfk.html

ATIS doesn't give me live flight info, or does it?

Thanks for your reply!

[chrisparypa]

ATIS will give you weather information and basic info about airport like what runways are in use, and few more things

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_Terminal_Information_Service

[gonzalu]

ATIS, imho, is only as useful as you are quick on your feet. If ATC is in the middle of a runway change, the only way you'll know is to listen to the controllers live. So I suggest at a minimum, get the liveATC app for the iPhone or if on Android or any other smartphone, just listen to it directly from the website.

The app can be slightly delayed and is BEST to have a scanner... but, whatever you have will help.

Tune to Ground Frequencies way before the flight leaves. Just before the aircraft pushes, pilot will call ground and state his/her intention, what taxiway/gate aircraft is on and ground control will begin by telling the pilot the runway they should plan on taking off from, followed by instructions on how to leave gate, which way to face and what taxiways to use to get there.

Kennedy Ground:

JFK Ground121.900
JFK Ground121.650

the trick is to pay attention to the Airline/Flight Number. MAKE SURE you know this well and memorize it. Also listen to ANY OTHER aircraft movements of this same airline to get a feel for that particular controller's voice, accent etc. I can;t tell you how many times one aircraft is called something you cannot understand :-)

Also be aware of callsigns used by the airlines. Deltas are almost never called deltas... lots of Acey and Chautauqua, Comair. American can be Eagle Flight... etc.

After the ground control gets the plane to the queue for the runway in use, they will usually tell the pilot their sequence in the queue, and depending on volume, may turn the aircraft over to the tower by asking them to CONTACT the tower or to simply switch freq and LISTEN/MONITOR the tower. Either way, pilot will then either call the tower and check in or just wait until called.

YOU HAVE TO BE ON YOUR TOES. Do NOT scan other frequencies. If you;re tracking a single specific flight, tune in to ONLY one freq at a time. This is especially sensitive with the tower. Tower calls are usually less than 2 seconds, sometimes 5 seconds, but rarely more than that.

Kennedy has two tower frequencies:

(4L/22R, 13R/31L)123.900
(4R/22L, 13L/31R)119.100


So, once you find out what specific runway your tracked plane is actually queued up to leave from (I say actually queued, because I have PLENTY of experience, as do most spotters here, with last minute runnway changes. This can happen a lot during the switch from one runway to another since ANYTHING can cause the plane to be changed due to delays in taxiing, confusion etc. so just pay attention)

Tune in to ONLY the tower freq for that runway and listen for your plane. The plane will ONLY be called (typically) just prior to takeoff. Meaning once a plane takes off, the next plane will be called but never deeper in the queue.

The first call will be for the plane to HOLD SHORT of the runway in use at the takeoff taxiway.

TOWER: "Asiana 221 Heavy hold short RWY 31L at Kilo Kilo"
AAR: "Hold Short 31L KK, Asiana 221 heavy!"

Now the plane is likely perpendicular to the runway and another plane is queued up to take off.. a prior airplane would have typically been asked to line up to take off.

TOWER: "Springbok 210 Heavy, Caution Wake Turbulance from a departing heavy 767, RWY 31L at Kilo Kilo, Line up and WAIT"
SAA: "Line up and wait, Springbok 210 heavy"

Pilot should read back ALL instructions but sometimes they abbreviate. Pilot missed the RWY readback and sometimes tower will argue it or let it go, typically that's good enough.

Now they release the Springbok

TOWER: "Springbok 221 Heavy, Clear for Takeoff"
SAA: "Springbok 221 rolling"

and now your friend:

TOWER: "Asiana 221 Heavy, caution wake turbulance, RWY 31L at KK, line up and wait. Arriving traffic 7 miles out is a heavy Boeing 747"
AAR221: "Asiana 221 Heavy, line up and wait"
TOWER: "Delta 173, Kennedy Tower, RWY 31L. Aircraft on the runway will depart prior to your arrival, wind 330 at 4, clear to land"
DAL173: "In sight Delta 173, clear to land RWY 31L"
TOWER: "Asiana 221 Heavy, RWY 31L at KK, clear for takeoff"
AAR221: "Clear for takeoff, Asiana 221 Heavy"

NOW get ready with your camera. From HoBe, which is the location you should be at for a 31L departure, you will see the tail and parts of the plane moving in the bushes near the base of the JFK tower, slightly to the right of it, down near the train tracks. Once the plane starts to rotate, you will see the nose start to clear. For foreign heavy pax jets, they will roll long past the tower and rotate very slowly in front of you past the subway bridge/cargo areas.

PRACTICE!!! Your friend on a regular daily flight? Start practicing now. Listen from home. Start with ground and follow the plane as it gets taxied, then handed over to tower and then queued, lined up and cleared for take off.

And remember to be patient, sometimes you may think something is wrong and it can be just a lull in the action.

BE ON THE LOOKOUT for RWY changes. If you see traffic or chatter on the tower suddenly stop or slow down, this could mean a runway change. But ground will also give you a hint to that action. For departures, GROUND is your friend.

From the other locations, you will not see the aircraft rolling and so you will just have to be prepared to see them pop out from behind a bush or a building :-)

ATIS will NOT give flight info... it will only give out weather, departing RWYs and Arriving RWYs in use or closed with instrumentation available (or not) and any notices that pilots should be aware of like fires, cranes, bird activity, etc. Also flight rules expected are announced.

[Lrusso]

ATIS, imho, is only as useful as you are quick on your feet. If ATC is in the middle of a runway change, the only way you'll know is to listen to the controllers live. So I suggest at a minimum, get the liveATC app for the iPhone or if on Android or any other smartphone, just listen to it directly from the website.

The app can be slightly delayed and is BEST to have a scanner... but, whatever you have will help.

Tune to Ground Frequencies way before the flight leaves. Just before the aircraft pushes, pilot will call ground and state his/her intention, what taxiway/gate aircraft is on and ground control will begin by telling the pilot the runway they should plan on taking off from, followed by instructions on how to leave gate, which way to face and what taxiways to use to get there.

Kennedy Ground:

JFK Ground121.900
JFK Ground121.650

the trick is to pay attention to the Airline/Flight Number. MAKE SURE you know this well and memorize it. Also listen to ANY OTHER aircraft movements of this same airline to get a feel for that particular controller's voice, accent etc. I can;t tell you how many times one aircraft is called something you cannot understand :-)

Also be aware of callsigns used by the airlines. Deltas are almost never called deltas... lots of Acey and Chautauqua, Comair. American can be Eagle Flight... etc.

After the ground control gets the plane to the queue for the runway in use, they will usually tell the pilot their sequence in the queue, and depending on volume, may turn the aircraft over to the tower by asking them to CONTACT the tower or to simply switch freq and LISTEN/MONITOR the tower. Either way, pilot will then either call the tower and check in or just wait until called.

YOU HAVE TO BE ON YOUR TOES. Do NOT scan other frequencies. If you;re tracking a single specific flight, tune in to ONLY one freq at a time. This is especially sensitive with the tower. Tower calls are usually less than 2 seconds, sometimes 5 seconds, but rarely more than that.

Kennedy has two tower frequencies:

(4L/22R, 13R/31L)123.900
(4R/22L, 13L/31R)119.100


So, once you find out what specific runway your tracked plane is actually queued up to leave from (I say actually queued, because I have PLENTY of experience, as do most spotters here, with last minute runnway changes. This can happen a lot during the switch from one runway to another since ANYTHING can cause the plane to be changed due to delays in taxiing, confusion etc. so just pay attention)

Tune in to ONLY the tower freq for that runway and listen for your plane. The plane will ONLY be called (typically) just prior to takeoff. Meaning once a plane takes off, the next plane will be called but never deeper in the queue.

The first call will be for the plane to HOLD SHORT of the runway in use at the takeoff taxiway.

TOWER: "Asiana 221 Heavy hold short RWY 31L at Kilo Kilo"
AAR: "Hold Short 31L KK, Asiana 221 heavy!"

Now the plane is likely perpendicular to the runway and another plane is queued up to take off.. a prior airplane would have typically been asked to line up to take off.

TOWER: "Springbok 210 Heavy, Caution Wake Turbulance from a departing heavy 767, RWY 31L at Kilo Kilo, Line up and WAIT"
SAA: "Line up and wait, Springbok 210 heavy"

Pilot should read back ALL instructions but sometimes they abbreviate. Pilot missed the RWY readback and sometimes tower will argue it or let it go, typically that's good enough.

Now they release the Springbok

TOWER: "Springbok 221 Heavy, Clear for Takeoff"
SAA: "Springbok 221 rolling"

and now your friend:

TOWER: "Asiana 221 Heavy, caution wake turbulance, RWY 31L at KK, line up and wait. Arriving traffic 7 miles out is a heavy Boeing 747"
AAR221: "Asiana 221 Heavy, line up and wait"
TOWER: "Delta 173, Kennedy Tower, RWY 31L. Aircraft on the runway will depart prior to your arrival, wind 330 at 4, clear to land"
DAL173: "In sight Delta 173, clear to land RWY 31L"
TOWER: "Asiana 221 Heavy, RWY 31L at KK, clear for takeoff"
AAR221: "Clear for takeoff, Asiana 221 Heavy"

NOW get ready with your camera. From HoBe, which is the location you should be at for a 31L departure, you will see the tail and parts of the plane moving in the bushes near the base of the JFK tower, slightly to the right of it, down near the train tracks. Once the plane starts to rotate, you will see the nose start to clear. For foreign heavy pax jets, they will roll long past the tower and rotate very slowly in front of you past the subway bridge/cargo areas.

PRACTICE!!! Your friend on a regular daily flight? Start practicing now. Listen from home. Start with ground and follow the plane as it gets taxied, then handed over to tower and then queued, lined up and cleared for take off.

And remember to be patient, sometimes you may think something is wrong and it can be just a lull in the action.

BE ON THE LOOKOUT for RWY changes. If you see traffic or chatter on the tower suddenly stop or slow down, this could mean a runway change. But ground will also give you a hint to that action. For departures, GROUND is your friend.

From the other locations, you will not see the aircraft rolling and so you will just have to be prepared to see them pop out from behind a bush or a building :-)

ATIS will NOT give flight info... it will only give out weather, departing RWYs and Arriving RWYs in use or closed with instrumentation available (or not) and any notices that pilots should be aware of like fires, cranes, bird activity, etc. Also flight rules expected are announced.

If its Asiana I don't think the transmissions are going to go nearly that smoothly! :wink:
Excellent post! I still need to get a scanner