USDA Secretly Gassing Geese

[Speedbird1]

Have you heard that the USDA has decided that all Canadian geese, including baby goslings, pose a threat to aviation if they are roosting within 7 miles of an airport? I just learned that they rounded-up and gassed about 400 geese from Prospect Park in Brooklyn because they might cause a bird strike. This is ridiculous in my opinion. I can imagine what they will do at the Jamaica Bay Bird Refuge which is adjacent to Rwy 31L/12R. Couldn't there be a more humane solution? We musdt share our planet with these beautiful creatures.

[T-Bird76]

I don't see the big deal...Canadian Geese are basically rats with wings. They leave messes where ever they are, they destroy small ponds and lakes because their waste makes the water far too acidic for fish and plant life, they spread disease, they pose threats to airports, and they are basically nasty creatures if you get to close. Funny thing....with the amount of times I've travelled to Canada and all over Canada I never once saw one CANADIAN Goose...they should be called American Geese.

[flyboy 28]

I thought they've been doing this ever since US Air 1549...


Couldn't there be a more humane solution?

Wanna adopt them? :)

[LGA777]

Speedbird1, no disrespect but maybe if you ever survive a future airliner accident brought down by these "rats with wings" or god forbid loose a loved one in a future aviation accident due to same you will feel differently. The threat is very real, trust me. Tommy very good analogy.

Cheers

LGA777

[NIKV69]

Speedbird1, no disrespect but maybe if you ever survive a future airliner accident brought down by these "rats with wings" or god forbid loose a loved one in a future aviation accident due to same you will feel differently. The threat is very real, trust me. Tommy very good analogy.

Cheers

LGA777

Every bird including gulls, pelicans and hawks pose a threat should we gas them too? This was an extreme and a knee jerk reaction to a sensational event that can be avoided by other means.

[T-Bird76]

Speedbird1, no disrespect but maybe if you ever survive a future airliner accident brought down by these "rats with wings" or god forbid loose a loved one in a future aviation accident due to same you will feel differently. The threat is very real, trust me. Tommy very good analogy.

Cheers

LGA777

Every bird including gulls, pelicans and hawks pose a threat should we gas them too? This was an extreme and a knee jerk reaction to a sensational event that can be avoided by other means.

A “sensational” event Nick? A freaking large jetliner safely ditched vs. nose diving in the Hudson because.. The event could have had a far worse outcome. How can you for a minute downplay such an event? These birds are far more a threat to planes then a flock of sparrows. Their size alone can do major damage to an engine. Much like how we hunt deer to keep their population in check the same should be done to these birds. The population of Canadian Geese is far too great and they do more ecological damage then good. In my town two ponds were laid to waste years ago because of them, their waste killed all the plant life and fish. All the Geese were "removed" from the area and the ponds restored to their natual element. Once the threat was removed other measures were put in place to keep them away.

[NIKV69]

Much like how we hunt deer to keep their population in check the same should be done to these birds

I agree but rounding them all up and gassing them is not conservation. Under your reasoning we should just round thenm all up and gas them? No, they are wildlife and it's thier natural habitat. Sure there are steps at the area NY airports that need to be taken but this is a little extreme.


The population of Canadian Geese is far too great and they do more ecological damage then good. In my town two ponds were laid to waste years ago because of them, their waste killed all the plant life and fish. All the Geese were "removed" from the area and the ponds restored to their natual element. Once the threat was removed other measures were put in place to keep them away.

Not true thier droppings doesn't do any of this.

http://www.canadageese.org/doc3c.html

[PhilDernerJr]

I think that gassing birds wtihin "x" distance of the airport should be completely legal. Simple as that. No one is saying to make them extinct. It's an easy bird vs. human comparison, and when there's risk of a plane coming down on my house, I'll vote for the birds to die.

[T-Bird76]

Not true thier droppings doesn't do any of this.

http://www.canadageese.org/doc3c.html

Not true....Nick when you use a source use one that isn't going to be biased. Coalition to Prevent the Destruction of Canada Geese???? hmmmm no biasis there at all.

http://web.extension.illinois.edu/wildl ... anadagoose (http://web.extension.illinois.edu/wildlife/directory_show.cfm?species=canadagoose)


In rural areas, large flocks of geese can damage agriculture crops. In urban areas, Canada geese can cause traffic jams, reduce water quality, contaminate lawns or golf courses with droppings and damage turf by grazing, or pose a safety threat when they fly near airports. When it comes to dealing with geese, preventing them from using an area is much easier than discouraging them from using a site once they are established. Once geese have found suitable habitat, it is very difficult to discourage them from using the site. If geese have already established themselves on your property, the best way to control them is to use a combination of management techniques.

[NIKV69]

hmmmm no biasis there at all.



Well feel free to provide sources that support your claim about their droppings. Fact is their droppings are no different than any other bird and doesn't pose any danger to anything we have had hundreds of geese leaving droppings all over every golf course I worked at. Didn't do any damage whatsoever to the turf in fact it just dried up like any other animal's waste. People simply want them gone because they don't want them around.

[Tom_Turner]

The geese that hit the USAir airbus were likely migrating. Most of the ones near our airports appear to be local these days. It can certainly be argued we should dispose of them anyway "just in case", but the exterminating was done quietly this year in my opinion to avoid debate - sort of like Miegs Field.

Guess it goes with the territory these days - this constant spraying over every foot of fresh water in 5 boros to prevent West Nile Virus from possibly killing less than a handful of people - some may say good regardless of the cost, but I imagine its because the costs are not discussed or compared to how else the dollars might be spent for "good" causes or rational goals elsewhere.

Tom

[PHL Approach]

I never knew Geese are so nasty until my Mother told me a story. My Mom was close to being attacked and one of her co-workers had a bone broken trying to protect himself when a Male flew at him. My mom works for a Water Authority company in Suburban Philadelphia. There is a nice pond on the companies property and lots of grass. So the Geese take over the entire area around the building - sidewalks, parking lot etc. My Mom noticed these two Geese - Female and Male that would hide in this bush next to the sidewalk for the entrance/exit for the building. She was going to her car after work and she heard hissing from the bush one day (that being the Male). It was later realized that they were watching the eggs underground next to the sidewalk but at a distance always from the bush. A couple days later as my Mother was leaving the lot she stared at the couple and they were aware that she looked at them.

I believe it was 2 days later. She was getting her car to go to lunch of course walked past the couple on the sidewalk. The Male came out of the bush and I guess was fed up with my Mom looking at them and felt she is too close to the eggs when she goes by. As she was getting ready to open her car door. She heard some noise from him and turned around. He took flight and flew directly for her face. She was so scared she simple just threw her jacket over her head to protect herself as best she could. As he approached he changed direction because he simply lost his target since he couldn't see her anymore. She found out this is one of the very few instances (egg protection) where they will take flight for short distance. It's too hard on their body since they are so heavy. They rather walk everywhere.

A week or two prior to her incident a co-worker again going to his car was attacked. Maybe the same Male...? Took flight and hit him with force that it broke a bone in his arm when he tried to protect himself. Those two incidents forced the company to start going out and finding all the eggs around the companies compound and I guess use some kind of piece of metal to stick in the eggs and scramble them up. The couple must have felt threatened by the passing of people. Bad spot for the eggs. Right next to a sidewalk... They are pretty smart though for at least the ability to remember what people look like that they see everyday.

Needless to say, Geese need to be controlled as much as Deer population is.

[Big Tim #70]

The geese that hit the USAir airbus were likely migrating. Most of the ones near our airports appear to be local these days. It can certainly be argued we should dispose of them anyway "just in case", but the exterminating was done quietly this year in my opinion to avoid debate - sort of like Miegs Field.


The USAir 1549 incident happened in January. The Geese migrate from late Sept to November.

Many of the geese on Long Island & in the Hudson/East River area are geese that migrated from the north. We don't have anywhere near the same # of geese in the summer months than what we have from Mid Fall to late spring. That being said, we still have a lot of them as this is still their natural habitat.

Gassing them, although harsh, is probably the one of the only ways to control their population. There are very few natural predators down here & in areas like parks where they're even more protected, they can get out of hand real quick.

[njgtr82]

I absolutely hate these nasty things... GAS GAS GAS!!!!

[Speedbird1]

Wow, I opened-up a can of worms with this discussion. I totally agree that these birds pose a danger but my point was that there could be a more humane way to handle the solution. NYC airports were built right next to bird sanctuaries so didn't they know back then about bird strikes? I also think that the way the gassing was done without warnings was not right. Why no public hearings? It was kept secret from the media so they must have known there would be protests from bird-lovers. Was it done late at night? If it was the only solution, they should have told the public in advance and not done it in secret. Even the MTA holds public hearings before raising the transit fares.

[FlyingColors]

I don't see the big deal...Canadian Geese are basically rats with wings. They leave messes where ever they are, they destroy small ponds and lakes because their waste makes the water far too acidic for fish and plant life, they spread disease, they pose threats to airports, and they are basically nasty creatures if you get to close. Funny thing....with the amount of times I've travelled to Canada and all over Canada I never once saw one CANADIAN Goose...they should be called American Geese.

Thank you Tommy!
All facts.

[FlyingColors]

I absolutely hate these nasty things... GAS GAS GAS!!!!

If Patton was still around he would "nuke the sonsofabitches"

But really- if they can cook them up for the poor great, or make dog/zoo food out of them, wonderful. But I have already heard of all the red tape with that- never going to happen bla bla bla.

[NIKV69]

All facts.

Which? They don't spread disease and aren't nasty unless you get close to their eggs or young which can be said about any wildlife.

[T-Bird76]

All facts.

aren't nasty unless you get close to their eggs or young.

Not true...we had two people at our parking lot at work get chassed by them and no young or eggs were around. One person slipped and broke their wrist as a result. If you had an infestation of mice in your house would you not lay traps? This is what the USDA wants to do...remove the geese in a way that they will not return as the infestation of them is a safety hazard.

[njgtr82]

Here's a link about birds causing people to get a rash who swim in this lake
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/0 ... rning.html (http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/07/police_await_official_warning.html)

[Tom_Turner]

[quote="Tom_Turner":1mqmf7ct]The geese that hit the USAir airbus were likely migrating. Most of the ones near our airports appear to be local these days. It can certainly be argued we should dispose of them anyway "just in case", but the exterminating was done quietly this year in my opinion to avoid debate - sort of like Miegs Field.


The USAir 1549 incident happened in January. The Geese migrate from late Sept to November.

Many of the geese on Long Island & in the Hudson/East River area are geese that migrated from the north. We don't have anywhere near the same # of geese in the summer months than what we have from Mid Fall to late spring. That being said, we still have a lot of them as this is still their natural habitat.

Gassing them, although harsh, is probably the one of the only ways to control their population. There are very few natural predators down here & in areas like parks where they're even more protected, they can get out of hand real quick.[/quote:1mqmf7ct]

Tim, the birds were not local... so to really make sure this doesn't happen again, we might need to start gassing the geese from Labrador, Canada..

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/06/08/usair. ... index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/06/08/usair.bird.strike/index.html)

Smithsonian Institution scientists say it was migratory Canada geese -- and not resident Canada geese -- that caused US Airways Flight 1549 to ditch in New York's Hudson River on January 15.

More specifically, it was at least two female and one male geese flying at approximately 2,900 feet that got sucked into the two engines of the Airbus A320, disabling both engines and causing one of the more spectacular water landings in aviation history. All 155 people safely evacuated the jet.

Officials knew almost from the start that Canada geese were responsible for the incident, both because of Capt. Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger's radio report and because few other types of birds flock at that altitude in the mid-Atlantic.

But on Monday, the eve of a three-day National Transportation Safety Board hearing into the crash, the Smithsonian announced that sophisticated scientific techniques allowed them to conclude that the Flight 1549 birds were Canada geese from Labrador, Canada, and were significantly different from geese in New York City.

Museum scientists said molecular study of feathers found in the engines leads them to believe the birds had probably nested in Labrador in the summer of 2008 and migrated to the New York region for the winter. On the day of the crash, Smithsonian wildlife biologist Peter Marra said, the ground was covered with snow, and the flock was probably on a short flight south looking for clear ground or water on which to for

[Speedbird1]

Regarding this topic, somebody posted to the NY Daily News that while the gassing of geese has a good intent, to protect aircraft, using the same logic, we should shoot all wildlife that crosses highways (moose,deer) and causes collisions up in the suburban areas. He suggested that engines should be built to withstand a bird strike. It is surprising to the general public that a flying goose could cause a jet engine to tear-up. Maybe this should be studied rather than just gassing the birds. Also, birds in flight cannot be rounded-up to be gassed so the procedure is mostly useless in my opinion. This is a serious problem that deserves further study. Incidentally, I am no lover of geese. When visiting Prospect Park, whenever I approach the Lake, 1 or 2 geese usually come after me. Maybe they're trying to protect their turf or their young.

[Altitude9]

I don't understand why they don't round them up and give them for food to the homeless shelters. It is excellent meat.

[PhilDernerJr]

Regarding this topic, somebody posted to the NY Daily News that while the gassing of geese has a good intent, to protect aircraft, using the same logic, we should shoot all wildlife that crosses highways (moose,deer) and causes collisions up in the suburban areas. He suggested that engines should be built to withstand a bird strike. It is surprising to the general public that a flying goose could cause a jet engine to tear-up. Maybe this should be studied rather than just gassing the birds. Also, birds in flight cannot be rounded-up to be gassed so the procedure is mostly useless in my opinion. This is a serious problem that deserves further study. Incidentally, I am no lover of geese. When visiting Prospect Park, whenever I approach the Lake, 1 or 2 geese usually come after me. Maybe they're trying to protect their turf or their young.

Engines ARE built to be able to withstand birds, but geese, Canadian ones especially, are fairly large. You can't expect any complex engine or machinery to be able to withstand a small being into it without having problems.

As for the highway animals...I totally agree! I would gladly mount a M-60 E3 on the hood of my car to clear the way of pending deer collisions!

[Tom_Turner]

I don't understand why they don't round them up and give them for food to the homeless shelters. It is excellent meat.

Probably because it is cheaper to provide Food Stamps and also less likely for a homeless person to sue the Feds, City State, should they become ill and claim it is from a goose, but yeah, I get your point though.

Tom

[Tom_Turner]

Regarding this topic, somebody posted to the NY Daily News that while the gassing of geese has a good intent, to protect aircraft, using the same logic, we should shoot all wildlife that crosses highways (moose,deer) and causes collisions up in the suburban areas. He suggested that engines should be built to withstand a bird strike. It is surprising to the general public that a flying goose could cause a jet engine to tear-up. Maybe this should be studied rather than just gassing the birds. Also, birds in flight cannot be rounded-up to be gassed so the procedure is mostly useless in my opinion. This is a serious problem that deserves further study. Incidentally, I am no lover of geese. When visiting Prospect Park, whenever I approach the Lake, 1 or 2 geese usually come after me. Maybe they're trying to protect their turf or their young.

Engines ARE built to be able to withstand birds, but geese, Canadian ones especially, are fairly large. You can't expect any complex engine or machinery to be able to withstand a small being into it without having problems.

As for the highway animals...I totally agree! I would gladly mount a M-60 E3 on the hood of my car to clear the way of pending deer collisions!

Yes, it was pretty much of a freak accident. Bird strikes happen frequently.

In fact, however unlikely, it could be a bald eagle or golden eagle next time.

Tom

[Tom_Turner]

I am amused to all these stories of birds attacking people.

I've been bitten by a duck once, bitten by both Garder snakes & Northern Water snakes, bitten by a praying mantis, bitten by a dragon fly, stung by bees, wasps & hornets, pinched by crabs, stung by jellyfish, etc. but these are uncommon occurrences, and actually rather rare if you keep your distance.

The most common animal attack on humans, (including young children/toddlers) both minor and serious, in urban areas or suburbs, are from man's best friend; canines - generally owned by your neighbors. I would not be surprised if the most disease from an animal, minor or major, in urban area or suburbs are from canines feces left uncollected by your neighbors who don't pick up after them. Its easy to say pigeons or rats, but not so sure...

NYC had to actually pass a "law" for that... for those that don't "get it" - and believe me, they are legion....

btw, I like dogs as well..

Tom

[GrummanFan]

From the Times:


A nine-page report put together by a variety of national, state and city agencies shows that officials hope to reduce the number of Canada geese in New York to 85,000 from 250,000.

That means that roughly 170,000 geese — two-thirds of the population — will be killed.


http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/07/23/state-plans-to-eliminate-170000-canada-geese/?hp