Spirit Airlines Pilots Strike This Morning

[Gerard]

http://www.aolnews.com/article/traveler ... e/19513704 (http://www.aolnews.com/article/travelers-stranded-as-spirit-airlines-pilots-go-on-strike/19513704)

[coachrowsey]

Based on the little I know, I'm 100% behind these folks. The airlines have to stop screwing us. Time to take a stand :borat:

[727C47]

1000% behind these boys,and girls

[MarkLawrence]

Now cancelled all Sunday's flights. I am with you all being behind them - just feel sorry for relatives of close friends who are trying to get back to Puerto Rico - they are stuck but have to be back by Monday morning....

[Matt Molnar]

I can't imagine Spirit can survive much more than a week without any revenue. The fact that they're still in business in the first place is a minor miracle.

[USAF Pilot 07]

Great. Maybe they'll just have to bump the carry-on fee to $100 per person. The airline is becoming a joke and these pilots are soon going to be out of work if they continue the strike. I'm all for fair wages, but in this economy, and with such a surplus of pilots, and pilots willing to work for peanuts, the strike seems like a shot in the foot.

[threeholerglory]

I agree with all above...it's about damn time pilots stood up for what they deserve (which is to be treated as pilots, not bus drivers)....at the same time, the airlines and consumers have influenced the job market to the point where pilots can and will work for next to nothing, even if it means living in conditions as depicted in the special on Colgan. I feel that it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario...it's imperative to make a statement that hopefully all commercial pilots will follow, but these people also need to protect their best interests which involve keeping their jobs.

Granted we are in a miserable at best economy and people aren't spending as much as normal, I firmly believe in working for what you are truly worth. Allowing consumers to dictate the price of a ticket (which as we all know is "how low can we go?") forces management to scalp costs in other areas. If slashing payroll spending saves the company money and they still have pilots willing to work for the company, so be it. Then of course there are all these low-time pilots looking for any flying work they can get, and will always work for less than the next guy...there is a perpetual cycle that stems from the consumer and cycles through the airline's various departments.

That said, until the consumer is willing to pay what the services are truly worth, we will continue to see deteriorating services and more strikes.

Of course this is just my two cents, but I feel very strongly about it. For above said reasons, I have chosen not to actively pursuit a profession in aviation as a pilot.

Here ends my rant.

[rkfast]

So Spirit pilots are upset that their pay lags behind Airtran and JetBlue?

Im sorry, the pilots are wrong there. What you get paid to do a job depends highly on who you do it for. Thats a fact for any job, even for those in fields as highly specialized as pilots. Doctors in public hospitals dont make the same as those in bigger, private ones. Programmers for small software companies dont make as much as those working for Microsoft. And so on. You could be the best dang pilot alive, but flying for Spirit wont earn you the same salary compared to flying for American, or even JetBlue a carrier fifty times bigger and more sophisticated than Spirit. I agree that pilots should be treated as such. I shudder when I hear pilots are asked to clean cabins and what not, in order to save a buck. But on the other hand the Spirit crews are being compensated and payed as "bus drivers" because if youve ever flown Spirit, you know there is nothing closer to 'airborne bus travel' out there. If these piltos want better pay, they need to go work for a better airline.

[coachrowsey]

The pilot situation is a damed if you do & damed if you don't. Again I'm glad they are willing to take the stand even at great risk.

Slight off topic on pilot pay issues, my 20 year old son will be a college senior this uo coming year majoring in eng. He loves to fly & while school is out he has been out flying around the system just because he loves it. He has no flight hours, but I have no doubt he would go for it if he wouldn't have to shell out so much & then make starvation wages.

[Matt Molnar]

All flights now canceled through Tuesday.

[MarkLawrence]

I think they have to get something resolved soon - otherwise - there won't be an airline to strike against - there will be no pay period!

[NIKV69]

Yea this could be a disaster. Wonder who will blink first because it can't go too long.

[Matt Molnar]

A pretty well-informed source on twitter (sorry, his name escapes me at the moment) suggested that Spirit management will play dirty: Take the company to the very edge of collapse and then try to entice pilots to cross the picket lines.

I think it's possible. These guys are pretty hardcore, after all...that whole charging for carry-ons idea required balls of steel.

Does management even have anything to lose at this point? Their only asset is the brand, which has been more or less destroyed by bad press from the carry-on charges and now the strike. Everything else...planes + gates + offices = leased.

[NIKV69]

That will probably backfire, if the pilots take it that far they will most likely hang together which will just destroy the airline. If none have crossed now they ain't going to. IMO

[Matt Molnar]

Forgot another asset...their LGA and DCA slots. Probably worth more than the brand, enough to pay off a couple months of debt.

[coachrowsey]

A Spirit pilot who posts on another website says the pilots have prepared for the for a few years & they are ready to go the route. Time will tell.

Their management is dirty & deserve to go down & yes I feel for all the good folks who will be unemployed, but I feel they will find better jobs.

Personally I hope the pilots stand their ground.

[Ari707]

All flights canceled till Wed. now

[Matt Molnar]

Mgmt is winning the PR war, that's for sure.

The pilots say they want pay closer to AirTran and JetBlue...well, the raise offered by mgmt would put them slightly ahead of AirTran pilots. The benefits seem to be the sticking point, but no one is disclosing any details on that front.

[george]

I wonder how long they can go with canceling flights and offering $100 to each passenger.. sooner or later they are going to start running low on money I would think

[MarkLawrence]

$100 is a travel voucher as far as I know - but they are having to refund fares - and that is where the cash will go - and very quickly!

[george]

Your right the $100 is a travel voucher. The refunds are going to kill them

[hiss srq]

FIrst off... RK... you are an idiot... Flat out... And you clearly never worked in the airlines. Either that or you sat on the bottom of a seinority list when it was cushy to be reserve.... Second off... Spirit has been banking money for a while to survive this deal... So have the pilots though. There have been funds set up for many months..... Two scabs have flow for Falcon Air now and rumor has it a few Spirit pilots paied a visit to the Captain house after he got airborne from FLL. Good for them... And BTW... Look at Spirit's pay scale for the buses's... Than go look at AirTrans.... For the size of the metal AirTran is flying their pay is off kilter even so it wouldnt be too bad to ask for an AirTran like contract. Go Spirit pilots go... Make a stand... AirTran is planning the next strike before the summer is over. LCC's are making money hand over fist and ****ting on ALL of their staff.... Guess what... Burn the house down..... Those of you who would like to stay up to date in the airlines on your scab list..... Might I present you.... http://spiritairlinesscabs.com/

[T-Bird76]

I'm a bit confused how the pilots don't think a 30% pay raise over three years is fair? That's more then triple the national average for pay increases.. Someone please logically explain this to me please?

[Matt Molnar]

Those of you who would like to stay up to date in the airlines on your scab list..... Might I present you.... http://spiritairlinesscabs.com/

Get out of here with the scab nonsense. Going on strike does not give anyone the right to turn into Gambino toughguy.

If you want to ban picket crossers from becoming union members and such, that's fine with me. But encouraging intimidation and threats has no justification.

[Matt Molnar]

I'm a bit confused how the pilots don't think a 30% pay raise over three years is fair? That's more then triple the national average for pay increases.. Someone please logically explain this to me please?
From what I've heard there's a tie up on the benefits side and pilots will be expected to work more hours.

[NIKV69]

Ryan you can't blame any body crossing the picket line. We are in the worst economy of our lifetime and some people feel feeding their kids is a little more important than a strike in the worst possible time. At this point it seems Spirit is for all purposes is done. I don't see this strike ending soon and the rage from pax is going to stick around for a long time. Spirit management will probably not budge and let the company go under and start up without the union. I hear talks are scheduled for tomorrow but something has to be done very quickly.

[george]

Two scabs have flow for Falcon Air now and rumor has it a few Spirit pilots paied a visit to the Captain house after he got airborne from FLL. Good for them/

So the way I understand this is some Spirit pilots visited the house of the pilot while he was airborne and not home and you support this?? So I would imagine that they threatened his family or something like that cause I doubt they went over for coffee... And you say good for them?? I've never been in a union so I wouldn't know about being on strike but I don't think intimidation is the answer to any problems. Just my 2 cents....

[PhilDernerJr]

Flat out, I think the pilots are not only wrong in this situation, but that what they are doing is inconsiderate and selfish.

Striking is something that was a great tool back when work conditions were unsafe and people were being mistreated....decades and decades ago. Now, it's used by whiny people who don't get what they want.

These pilots, who I think that first should consider themselves lucky that they have a job in this economy and industry, turn down a GREAT pay offer that would put them ahead of the airlines they compare themselves too (even though Spirit is not as "nice" of an airline as AirTran nor Jetblue).

I find their crying and pouting to be selfish because, in this striking process, they put people such as ticket agents and/or rampers and all of the other Spirit employees jobs on hold. These are people that TRULY make minimum wage and STRUGGLE to put food on the table for their families. I think that, by definition, is selfish.

I have many pilots friends, and many are awesome people, but I will NEVER support an airline strike. Striking in general needs to be stopped, and that's coming from someone who was raised in a union family.

Although I will say that in cases like when US Airways' management takes away pensions that people worked decades to earn, I'd lose my mind and I may even march with them. Striking for not paying enough is one thing, but taking away my family's long term livelihood after I have been promised it for years...fury. Somehow they didn't strike, though.

[USAF Pilot 07]

The pilots striking in this case is unreasonable. It would be one thing if Spirit had cut their pay or benefits drastically, but they put a pretty significant pay raise out on the table.

It's unfortunate, but too many people in the airline industry - namely pilots - have the mindset that they deserve these large salaries. Maybe in the past that was the case, but in this economy, it just simply isn't a reality anymore.

As a pilot, who may one day be looking for work in the airline industry (although doubtful the way things are these days), I have a personal stake in this. I would love for pilot wages to be very lucrative. I would love to have a plethora of benefits. But let's be honest; we live in a supply and demand society and our economy is a capitalist one. Flying takes a lot of schooling, costs a lot of money, but when there are too many people willing to put in the work and money to become a pilot and there aren't enough open slots for all these people, we will continue to run into these situations. It's a simple scenario: the supply is much, much greater than the demand. The problem (to me at least) is that a lot of the supply that is out there is inexperienced and in a "hole" financially (read below) that it encourages airlines to put passenger safety at risk by using this pool to cut overall costs.

Pilot groups will argue that if you don't pay well, you don't get the best talent. I think that can't be further from the truth. Under the current system what you would end up getting is the same talent pool that's just paid better. You get poor talent when companies cut corners, or hire inexperienced pilots. The industry needs reform. Congress took the first step by requiring anyone transporting paying passengers (to my understanding at least) to have an Airline Transport Pilot's certificate/rating. I think they should take it a step further and require any airline pilot to have over 1,000 hours in a multi-engine aircraft. Yes, it may ultimately raise the price of ticket fares, which would be bad for the consumer, but at the same time you won't have 1,500 hour total time guys, the majority of which was in a single engine Cessna in Florida, flying people from Newark to Buffalo in the middle of winter, which would be good for the consumer, and honestly the cost spread among the millions of travelers each year, would be minimal (maybe an extra $10-$20 a ticket). Pilots are human - we will always make mistakes; but at the same time when you are a passenger, who would you feel more comfortable: someone who paid a lot of money to get a pilot license at a school, doesn't have much if any jet experience, failed numerous checkrides, but because he's willing to work for so little has a job or someone with a lot of experience, in jets in all types of conditions around the world? Would you be willing to pay more for this is the real question...

Also, unfortunately, one of the reasons we are in this scenario is because too many people have put all their eggs in one basket. Some of this blame lies with a lot of these schools and pilot groups that keep touting some sort of miraculous massive "pilot shortage" that will be coming in the near future. Personally I don't see it happening. People will retire, people will leave the industry, and there may not be as many new students going through the whole becoming a pilot process (for the aforementioned reasons), but I think there will always be someone there to fill a job. There are too many people out there right now who took out massive college loans, and didn't major in something non-flying related, or who have no fall back plan, that have to work for pennies because it's all they can do (and granted because it's still a fun job). This as a whole exacerbates the problem and brings the profession down and is why companies are willing to cut corners.

Before you flame me on all this, I agree that loyalty, experience and seniority should be rewarded. I would be upset if these airlines were significantly cutting the salaries of some of it's more senior/experienced pilots who had been with the company for years. But in this case, no one is talking about significantly cutting wages. They are offering more, but the pilots - who are in huge supply - want even more.

Just my 2 cents though, take it for what it's worth...

[MarkLawrence]

I know this strike is about the pilots and their money - but - consider this - just two out of the countless thousands of stranded passengers. Airfare for two from FLL to SJU - purchased 6 weeks ago - $248 - airfare for two from MIA to SJU to get home so that they can do their job and earn money - $1,540 - ohhh...sorry - don't forget the $200 in travel vouchers for future travel on Spirit - great job! Nice way to treat the public in these times of recession.

[Matt Molnar]

Thursday flights now canceled.

[kc2aqg]

How long do you think Spirit can survive without flying before they have to declare Chapter 11?

[Matt Molnar]

Hearing reports that Spirit began furloughing flight attendants this morning.

[Alex T]

Hearing reports that Spirit began furloughing flight attendants this morning.

Confirmed:

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/business/fl ... 9963.story (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/business/fl-spirit-airlines-0614-20100613,0,6379963.story)

F/A still say they continue to support the NK Pilots while still getting their notices.


Spirit flight attendants, represented by the Association of Flight Attendants-CWA, have shown support for Spirit pilots on the picket lines.

"We continue to support Spirit pilots in their fight for a fair contract," Meyer said.

I support the Pilot's, and if the F/A's support them maybe we should too, they are the ones truly, and directly being affected by this and if they have no problem with it...

Interesting to see where it goes.

Alex

[NIKV69]

hey are the ones truly, and directly being affected by this

You forget about the pax? Many who had to pay 4 times more to get home?

[Alex T]

hey are the ones truly, and directly being affected by this

You forget about the pax? Many who had to pay 4 times more to get home?

Speaking in regards to the NK Employees.

Alex

[T-Bird76]

Hearing reports that Spirit began furloughing flight attendants this morning.

Confirmed:

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/business/fl ... 9963.story (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/business/fl-spirit-airlines-0614-20100613,0,6379963.story)

F/A still say they continue to support the NK Pilots while still getting their notices.


Spirit flight attendants, represented by the Association of Flight Attendants-CWA, have shown support for Spirit pilots on the picket lines.

"We continue to support Spirit pilots in their fight for a fair contract," Meyer said.

I support the Pilot's, and if the F/A's support them maybe we should too, they are the ones truly, and directly being affected by this and if they have no problem with it...

Interesting to see where it goes.

Alex

Alex I'm sorry but the pilots do not deserve the support of the consumer base. The contract offer they were given is more then fair and provides them with a very attractive raise far greater then the majority of what most American workers get each year. Simply because pilots at other airlines make more then NK's pilots doesn't mean they deserve the same amount. Take my job for example..I could make far more money if I decided to work for a similar company in Manhattan but I don't and that's my choice. The pilots at NK choose to work their and that said you accept the salary you are given. If you don't like it you leave and seek other opportunities.

Strikes and Unions no longer drive quality salaries and working environments. The American worker does by simply choosing to take their skills and moving to a company that has an attractive salary and benefits package.

[Alex T]

Pilots among other airline employees cannot simply "pack up and go" The salary is based off seniority.

A Pilot at NK, looking at WN going oh man he is making 3K more than me is NOT nor EVER going to leave NK, go right to WN and get that 3K bump.

He has to start all over at the lower pay and lose MORE money leaving NK than he would sitting at NK.

This is not about the pay raise at all. According to the contract, the mgmt folks are asking NK Pilots to work even more hours without a higher increase of pay. The benefits are also what the NK Pilots are striking at as well.

The pay seems to be fine, it is other stuff behind the scenes, we know nothing about and should not say.

You cannot compare a Pilot job to someone else. I support the pilots as the right to strike, that is all my support comes from. I am not a pilot, nor will I ever be one because of my disability. So I don't know the goings behind it.

They have been going at it for 4 years. You claim we have to think about Customers, guess what, mgtm doesn't care about them. They care about trying to get the maximum amount of work for the lowest cost, while pilots are trying to get the maximum pay for the lowest productivity. Both sides tried to come to a conclusion, thus they have the right to strike as the law allows.

I can twist it and say, Mgmt should be concerned about their Employees and Customers too, why are the pilots being blamed too? It isn't a one way street and no one on this board can TRULY speak for the pilots and claim who is right or wrong unless you have been in the negotiations for the past four years.

As for the scab remark, it is true and unfortunate. If a pilot chose to leave and continue to fly and cross the line, forget it. He will never be hired by another Airline ever again for crossing the line. Some may argue well if they strike they will be out of a job too, also true, but..least they have a better chance of going to another airline than a scab would be.

What I don't think or agree with is those NON Union Pilots are being marked as a scab, they were not a union member they chose not to be part of it so they should have the right to do what they want without being labeled scab. Unfortunatly as mentioned, all pilots that fly for NK will be labeled as a scab, union member or not.

Alex

[NIKV69]

Alex I'm sorry but the pilots do not deserve the support of the consumer base. The contract offer they were given is more then fair and provides them with a very attractive raise far greater then the majority of what most American workers get each year. Simply because pilots at other airlines make more then NK's pilots doesn't mean they deserve the same amount. Take my job for example..I could make far more money if I decided to work for a similar company in Manhattan but I don't and that's my choice. The pilots at NK choose to work their and that said you accept the salary you are given. If you don't like it you leave and seek other opportunities.

Strikes and Unions no longer drive quality salaries and working environments. The American worker does by simply choosing to take their skills and moving to a company that has an attractive salary and benefits package.


Top

AMEN!

This basically covers what is going on here. The pilots at Spirit are going to take the whole airline down with them. All for what?

If you make a little less than a WN pilot THATS LIFE




You cannot compare a Pilot job to someone else

Why not? What makes them special?

[PhilDernerJr]

Flight attendants are supporting this because they, too are unionized. Go ask all of the hundreds non-unionized support personnel that work in the offices and at the airport too....see how they feel about the prospect of losing their jobs over strong demands.

The Spirit pilots are/were not being mistreated. Soon the airline will go under and they'll all just be out jobs wondering what happened....and they'll have done it to themselves.

[SengaB]

How many more days can NKS can survive like this before they shut down? Any suggestions?

Senga

[Matt Molnar]

How many more days can NKS can survive like this before they shut down? Any suggestions?

Senga
My earlier forecasts of a quick demise may have been a bit misguided...I forgot that they were bought out by a couple of very well-heeled investment groups a couple years ago. They even turned a healthy profit of around $100 million last year, not bad for a relatively small operation.

If the investors really wanted to, they could probably afford to keep them afloat for months. Chances are they won't be nearly that patient, so I give them at most a month. After a few weeks, travelers will forget about them completely and people won't want to fly them anymore, even if the pilots go back to work. Not like they have a loyal customer base.

[Matt Molnar]

BREAKING: Tentative agreement reached, flights could resume on Friday.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/business/fl ... 9963.story (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/business/fl-spirit-airlines-0614-20100613,0,6379963.story)