The Great JFK Runway Closure: Your Definitive Guide

[PhilDernerJr]

:arrow: The Great JFK Runway Closure: Your Definitive Guide (http://nycaviation.com/2010/03/01/jfk-runway-closure-your-definitive-guide/)

JFK’s runway 13R/31L is in need of some rehabilitation, which will have a major effect on an already strained airfield operation. Here’s what the changes will mean to travelers, airlines and planespotters.

[NLovis]

Rats. Was hoping for alot more 13L useage then that. Same goes for 31R.

[Speedbird1]

I think that JFK was arriving 4R and departing both 31R as well as from 4L last evening. Since runways 4L and 31R intersect I believe, isn't that risky?

[NLovis]

No 31L and 4R intersect. 31R and 4L do not intersect.

[AirtrafficController]

No 31L and 4R intersect. 31R and 4L do not intersect.

Incorrect. 31L and 4R/22L do not intersect. 31R/13L and 4L/22R do intersect.

[NLovis]

They both intersect according to the map i have here right next to me

[PhilDernerJr]

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source= ... 2&t=h&z=17 (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=jfk&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=50.157795,135.263672&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=John+F+Kennedy+International+Airport,+Queens ,+New+York+11422&ll=40.643583,-73.757905&spn=0.005918,0.016512&t=h&z=17)

22L/4R do not intersect with 31R/13L. Replace your map. :-p

[Futterman]

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=jfk&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=50.157795,135.263672&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=John+F+Kennedy+International+Airport,+Queens ,+New+York+11422&ll=40.643583,-73.757905&spn=0.005918,0.016512&t=h&z=17

22L/4R do not intersect with 31R/13L. Replace your map. :-p

Yup. 22L/4R does not physically intersect any runway, though it is "close". I'm sure the FAA and ATC don't spit hairs when it comes to coordinating arrivals and departures on perpendicular runways. At least, I'd hope not. 31R arrivals will cross 22L at about 100 feet.

http://web12.twitpic.com/img/70943865-a39d4319ad846d5409aba9b42a1164ca.4b8d5652-full.png

We might not even be seeing that many 31R arrivals for the next four months if the runway is preferred for departures.

[NLovis]

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=jfk&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=50.157795,135.263672&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=John+F+Kennedy+International+Airport,+Queens ,+New+York+11422&ll=40.643583,-73.757905&spn=0.005918,0.016512&t=h&z=17

22L/4R do not intersect with 31R/13L. Replace your map. :-p
Wasnt talking about that one. 22R-4L was the runway i was talking about.
@ futter Yea thats what i'm expecting sadly. Which means my spotting is doing to be very limited for the next several months unless they hopefully go 13L like they usually do for sprimg and summer.

[SengaB]

I think we should just let the airport diagram speak for itself. That would be most appropriate.
http://www.nycaviation.com/hosting/jfkdiagram.jpg
Senga

[NLovis]

Was anybody listening to what i just said?

[moose135]

Was anybody listening to what i just said?
You mean this part?

No 31L and 4R intersect. 31R and 4L do not intersect.
Or this part?

They both intersect according to the map i have here right next to me
As you can see from the chart Senga posted, 4R/22L doesn't intersect with anything but taxiways...

[NLovis]

Wasnt talking about that one. 22R-4L was the runway i was talking about.
This part

[Speedbird1]

According to the map I downloaded on http://www.airnav.com, Rwy 4L/22R intersects with Rwy 31R/13L. Rwy 4L/22R extends up to taxiway Fox-Bravo. This is what I said. Rwy 22L/4R intersects with no runway. I should know, I spent many summers up on the hill north of Rockaway Blvd watching 22L arrivals and never saw any 13L arrivals taxy down Rwy 22L, so they do not intersect. However, many 13L arrivals, especially Concordes arriving on 13L used Rwy 22R for taxying purposes. We must remember that LGA functions with only 2 physical runways and JFK still has 3 open. Please refresh my memory, when Rwy 22L/4R was widened, in the recent past to accomodate the A388, how many months was it closed and in what year?

[Speedbird1]

So far, so good. During the evening rush, JFK has successfully used Rwy 4R for arrivals while departing both Rwys 4L and 31R. All 31R departures must taxy west of the Rwy 4L intersection before departing. How many feet is left for departure? Can the A388 depart Rwy 31R from there? I bet they depart Rwy 4L. Let's see what happens when VOR/DME 22L is used for arrivals. It's too dangerous to depart Rwy 13L in my opinion but I am neither a pilot nor a traffic controller. I am just an enthusiastic spotter.

[Speedbird1]

So far, so good. During the evening rush, JFK has successfully used Rwy 4R for arrivals while departing both Rwys 4L and 31R. All 31R departures must taxy west of the Rwy 4L intersection before departing. How many feet is left for departure? Can the A388 depart Rwy 31R from there? I bet they depart Rwy 4L. Let's see what happens when VOR/DME 22L is used for arrivals. It's too dangerous to depart Rwy 13L in my opinion but I am neither a pilot nor a traffic controller. I am just an enthusiastic spotter.

[NLovis]

So far, so good. During the evening rush, JFK has successfully used Rwy 4R for arrivals while departing both Rwys 4L and 31R. All 31R departures must taxy west of the Rwy 4L intersection before departing. How many feet is left for departure? Can the A388 depart Rwy 31R from there? I bet they depart Rwy 4L. Let's see what happens when VOR/DME 22L is used for arrivals. It's too dangerous to depart Rwy 13L in my opinion but I am neither a pilot nor a traffic controller. I am just an enthusiastic spotter.
They cannot use 13L for departures if they are using 22R. Paths intersect.

[Futterman]

Let's see what happens when VOR/DME 22L is used for arrivals. It's too dangerous to depart Rwy 13L in my opinion but I am neither a pilot nor a traffic controller. I am just an enthusiastic spotter.


They cannot use 13L for departures if they are using 22R. Paths intersect.

Take a look at La Guardia sometime.

[NLovis]

Let's see what happens when VOR/DME 22L is used for arrivals. It's too dangerous to depart Rwy 13L in my opinion but I am neither a pilot nor a traffic controller. I am just an enthusiastic spotter.


They cannot use 13L for departures if they are using 22R. Paths intersect.

Take a look at La Guardia sometime.
They are tight spaced. Guess they have to take the risk. They dont at JFK. They have plenty of space.

[Speedbird1]

Yes, I am aware that 13L and 22R intersect but they can depart from 22R using a shorter length south of the intersection with 22R. Let's see what happens when there is a southerly wind during the evening rush. It should be "very interesting". If it is deemed as unsafe, departures will sit on taxiways for long periods to depart on 22R.

[SengaB]

Speedbird, T
They would probably use the YA taxiway just as they would use the ZA taxiway to depart 31R...they would lose approx 1200ft out of 11,351ft for 22R.

They have been doing this for ages at JFK. However it was done with 31L- Arrivals expect ILS 4R departures expect 4L, south west departures expect 31L from KK.

Or similarly- Arrivals expect ILS,/VOR DME 22L , departures expect 22R south west departures expect runway 31L from KK. (Mornings)

Both Scenarios have been fairly common at JFK in mornings.

Its very similar situation just different a runway and less feet to work with.

I have witnessed 22L/R operations in conjunction with 13L departures in the morning.....it isn't done often and when it is the planes usually hold short of 13L for a long time to get out. Short line for 13L but long wait.

Senga

[Zee71]

Here are a few photo's I took with my point and shoot while departing for Atlanta. We took off on 31R and blanked south. This is what 31L - 13R looks like as off April 19th.

Ooops............made the correction. I guess that's what happens when you have one eye open and the other closed.

http://mbsphotography.smugmug.com/Aviation/Odd-Stuff/Runway-Construction31L13R03/847063887_9rezi-L.jpg

http://mbsphotography.smugmug.com/Aviation/Odd-Stuff/Runway-Construction31L13R02/847063819_82wE5-L.jpg

http://mbsphotography.smugmug.com/Aviation/Odd-Stuff/Runway-Construction31L13R/847063750_bdWiL-L.jpg

[NLovis]

31L-13R. 13L-31R is what you departed off of and is open for air traffic. Nice shots though. Wonder what that Jamaica was doing down there.