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gettysburgerrn
02-04-2010, 07:48 PM
Hello -just by way of introducing myself- my name is Ken and I live on Long Island. I have a question...I recently read that the Thunderbirds will be performing at Coney Island this year in late August. I was curious- for those shows what airport do they fly out of? Thanks
Ken :borat:

Big Tim #70
02-04-2010, 07:53 PM
Hello -just by way of introducing myself- my name is Ken and I live on Long Island. I have a question...I recently read that the Thunderbirds will be performing at Coney Island this year in late August. I was curious- for those shows what airport do they fly out of? Thanks
Ken :borat:


Hey Ken, welcome to NYCA!

You're asking a good question, one that's been debated on here & ASB.TV for the past 2 months since they announced the Coney Island Show.

In the past, they've flown out of Republic in Farmingdale but they're in Atlantic City on Wed of that week for the AC Airshow. Some speculate that they're going to fly up from there, others (like me) think they're going to go out of Republic again.

Keep an eye on the NYCA Board and as soon as it's announced, it'll be posted here.

gettysburgerrn
02-04-2010, 07:58 PM
Republic would be sweet :borat: - every year my daughter and I go see the Blue angels or Thunderbirds (depending upon the year) there every year - She loves to go by the 56th fighter group restaurant to see the planes close up (she is 5 - I am warping her early).. thanks

.ken

Big Tim #70
02-04-2010, 09:12 PM
Good for you KEN!

I hung with my son at the airport when he was 11 months old one year. He loved watching the planes take off & land and the louder, the better! A very cool thing about the Jones Beach show is that it's simulcast on the radio so you can hang in your car near the tower, listening to the narration and see the acts come and go.

I hope they do the same type of thing for Coney Island. That would be very cool!

USAF Pilot 07
02-05-2010, 08:46 AM
In the past, they've flown out of Republic in Farmingdale but they're in Atlantic City on Wed of that week for the AC Airshow.

Do they even have the gas to launch out of AC and come all the way up to NYC do a full airshow and then recover back at AC?

Matt Molnar
02-05-2010, 09:19 AM
[quote="Big Tim #70":kqkqmn30]
In the past, they've flown out of Republic in Farmingdale but they're in Atlantic City on Wed of that week for the AC Airshow.

Do they even have the gas to launch out of AC and come all the way up to NYC do a full airshow and then recover back at AC?[/quote:kqkqmn30]
I wouldn't think so, unless they only perform for 3 minutes. :)

hiss srq
02-05-2010, 10:57 PM
[quote="Big Tim #70":2sy4t693]
In the past, they've flown out of Republic in Farmingdale but they're in Atlantic City on Wed of that week for the AC Airshow.

Do they even have the gas to launch out of AC and come all the way up to NYC do a full airshow and then recover back at AC?[/quote:2sy4t693]

Not a chance in hell. The model Viper that the birds use might as well be an early model Hornet fuel wise. My bet is we see a JFK appearnce honestly. It makes the most sense and they have the real estate to house them. However, with 31L/13R getting ko'd JFK is already going to be at critical mass even with alot of traditionally JFK b6 ops transitioning up to BOS to cover the loss in capcity at JFK.

njgtr82
02-05-2010, 11:22 PM
They asked to base out of EWR but were denied. I'll see what I can find out this week

PhilDernerJr
02-06-2010, 06:46 AM
Welcome Ken!

Matt Molnar
02-06-2010, 12:15 PM
Any chance they could use FBF?

Steven Holzinger
02-06-2010, 12:32 PM
The Thunderbirds need 7,000 feet within 25 nm of a show site if the show site's runway is less than 7,000 feet or is a staged show. A runway of 10,000 feet or more is required within 50 nm of the show site...

Don't quote me on the numbers, since I think I'm a bit off on both...

moose135
02-06-2010, 12:39 PM
Any chance they could use FBF?
While that would be way cool, no, no chance. For starters, the longest runway is only about 5,000 feet long, which is a non-starter. Add to that the lack of fire/rescue equipment, fuel availability, other support services...well, you get the idea.

I suspect they will park at either JFK or FRG. FRG is a familiar place for them, and they did use JFK on Memorial Day weekend several years ago. Talking with one of their maintainers at FRG last year, he said with the new Block 52 birds they have, if they use the 2-seater for an off-airport show (like Jones Beach) they need to fly the performance with an external fuel tank - the back seat means a smaller internal fuel tank, and they can get tight on fuel without the external tank when they have to travel to/from the show site.

PhilDernerJr
02-06-2010, 12:45 PM
Where did they park them at JFK back then?

cancidas
02-06-2010, 01:11 PM
The Thunderbirds need 7,000 feet within 25 nm of a show site if the show site's runway is less than 7,000 feet or is a staged show. A runway of 10,000 feet or more is required within 50 nm of the show site...

Don't quote me on the numbers, since I think I'm a bit off on both...
you're pretty close on the runway requirements, i'm not sure about the distances to the show center bit those sounds reasonable. i know the thunderchickens can't use the runway at SNS because it's only 6,700 feet long.

moose135
02-06-2010, 01:51 PM
As we used to say, RTFM...

2010 Thunderbirds Support Manual (http://thunderbirds.airforce.com/images/2010%20Support%20Manual%20cover%20shot.pdf)

a. Runways 10,000’ or longer do not require an arresting cable on site.
b. If your runway is between 7,000’-9,999’ in length, we require a barrier on site, unless there is either 1) a 10,000’ or longer runway within 80 NM of the airfield, or 2) a runway with arresting gear within 80 NM of the airfield.
c. If your runway is less than 7,000', we always require arresting gear on site, and the Thunderbirds will obtain a waiver from the Air Combat Command Commander to land at the site.
FRG Rwy 14/32 is 6,827' so they always install an arresting cable on it for airshow weekend.

Matt Molnar
02-06-2010, 02:14 PM
Why do they need so much runway?

Derf
02-06-2010, 02:18 PM
Why do they need so much runway?

Because they are not the NAVY! :borat:

Derf
02-06-2010, 02:25 PM
Why do they need so much runway?


seroiusly....what happends if it overruns....can you imagine that eye candy on ANET? The are
the best of the best (next to the Blue Angels of course) and can not afford an incident....they
put down the arresting wire, not because the need it but becuase they need to make sure
there is not an overrun. The worst thing in recient times was

http://www.michaelworth.com/photos/T_Bird_6_eject.jpg

Not the image they want you to see.... Pilot error makes that issue even worse.
Strict requirements for saftey of aircrew and aircraft is essential with any press flights as well.
You will not see them laying down arresting gear for any F-18 at Farmingdale...but when the
Blues are in town we get to see a treat!
http://www.longislandwallpapers.com/Aviation/Jones-Beach-2008-Airshow/IMG3130/302295854_ZetY9-L-1.jpg

hiss srq
02-07-2010, 02:54 AM
Why do they need so much runway?

Landing roll on the Viper is pretty long. It has pretty high ref speeds if I am not mistaken. So you need all the rollout distance you can get.

gettysburgerrn
02-07-2010, 07:17 AM
Wow I never knew that they had to install arresting gear at republic. How much room does the Hornet need to land versus a thunderbirds f-16.

ken :mrgreen:

moose135
02-07-2010, 10:19 AM
Both will use about the same amount of runway, if similarly configured. I've read that minimum take off distance is under 2,000' for both, and minimum landing distance is around 3,000'. They do have a Command-required 7,000' minimum runway requirement, but can get a waiver. The arresting gear is only for an emergency, like hydraulic or brake failure, since they don't have a big, long runway to roll out on.

gettysburgerrn
02-07-2010, 03:02 PM
Do the Blue angels and Thunderbirds ever perform together? (I mean in the same airshow...)

Ken :mrgreen:

moose135
02-07-2010, 03:25 PM
That's rare, Ken. Since their stated purpose is to act as a recruiting and promotional tool, they don't gain much by having them perform at the same show, but there are some exceptions. In June 2008, the Thunderbirds and Blue Angels joined the Snowbirds and Red Arrows in an airshow in Quebec, to celebrate that city's 400th anniversary. There have been a few airshows in the states where they have both performed as well - although I can't find it now, I seem to remember they both performed at Andrews AFB a few years ago during the JSOH show.

moose135
02-07-2010, 08:55 PM
In addition to the Thunderbirds, the Army Golden Knights are also scheduled to appear. And checking out the Navy list of "Eligible Events", Coney Island is also on the list. There are no performers included on that list, and it's not a guarantee that an aircraft will be available, but it does mean they are authorized to appear there.

Big Tim #70
02-07-2010, 09:27 PM
They did AC together a few years ago didn't they?

njgtr82
02-08-2010, 12:50 AM
They did AC together a few years ago didn't they?
Yes

Nick
02-08-2010, 07:28 AM
Even on a long runway, Navy jets get slammed onto the pavement. Land a USAF fighter like that and someone's doing some extra inspections.

cancidas
02-08-2010, 11:59 AM
Even on a long runway, Navy jets get slammed onto the pavement. Land a USAF fighter like that and someone's doing some extra inspections.
is that kind of a landing considered Code2 or Code3?

Derf
02-08-2010, 02:44 PM
Even on a long runway, Navy jets get slammed onto the pavement. Land a USAF fighter like that and someone's doing some extra inspections.

They do not chage their landing angle or the fact that they fly into the runway just because they are not landing on the boat. They are told to land one way only. That is whey way they land on a boat, or the airport.

The airplane is made to land that way....plus, it just looks cooler than the airforce's flair! (spelt wrong, I KNOW!)

http://www.longislandwallpapers.com/Aviation/Jones-Beach-2008-Airshow/IMG4576/302304719_ERjE2-L-1.jpg

http://www.longislandwallpapers.com/Aviation/Jones-Beach-2008-Airshow/IMG4305/302302050_cWUTL-L-1.jpg
(this is the direction every Chickenhawk thread should take....LOTS OF BLUES)

gettysburgerrn
02-10-2010, 03:31 PM
Cool picture especially of the one over the parkway...(the southern state parkway I imagine...)

ken

Nick
02-10-2010, 04:11 PM
They do not chage their landing angle or the fact that they fly into the runway just because they are not landing on the boat. They are told to land one way only. That is whey way they land on a boat, or the airport.

The airplane is made to land that way....plus, it just looks cooler than the airforce's flair! (spelt wrong, I KNOW!)

Dude, I know they always land that way. :borat: Matt, I'd have to imagine a hard landing would be Code 3. On the F-16, the " oops " that the pilots would sometimes make would be to scrape the rear ventral fins. USAF guys like to roll as long as possible on the rear 2 wheels to use the fuselage to slow the aircraft down.

Derf
02-10-2010, 07:36 PM
Cool picture especially of the one over the parkway...(the southern state parkway I imagine...)

ken
Thanks, it was Souther State Parkway from the New Hwy bridge.

SCOTYDEMCO
02-18-2010, 07:03 PM
The C model hornet demo team from VFA-106 will be there.

hiss srq
02-18-2010, 09:59 PM
Someone told me we will have a forign visitor as well. I'll let my source post it. :borat: 8)

fk6065
02-19-2010, 04:37 PM
The worst thing about this show is going to be getting there, parking and the crowd on the beach. Looks like practice days may be the key.

fk6065
02-19-2010, 04:40 PM
Also if anyone hears about Thunderbird 7 coming into the area please pass it along. I know they are making their rounds to set up for this years season. Thanks!

mirrodie
02-19-2010, 05:49 PM
#8 came and went this week at JFK

fk6065
02-19-2010, 06:22 PM
#8 came and went this week at JFK

Day late and a dollar short as usual. Thanks.

Chris S
02-19-2010, 08:13 PM
Oh well, I guess that means they'll definitely be staging out JFK for the show :(
It's just too bad they won't be using FRG again like they did last year for Jones Beach.

gettysburgerrn
02-20-2010, 03:21 PM
Bummer I was kind of hoping to have a double feature at republic this year with both the Blue angels and the thunderbirds...Oh well thanks for the info....


Ken

SCOTYDEMCO
03-26-2010, 07:42 PM
Harrier demo will be there too. Keep an eye on this show..

Gerard
03-27-2010, 01:06 AM
Someone told me we will have a forign visitor as well. I'll let my source post it. :borat: 8)

Anyone post it yet? :)

http://www.airforceweek.af.mil/news/sto ... =123186453 (http://www.airforceweek.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123186453)

gettysburgerrn
03-27-2010, 05:49 AM
Harrier Demo....??? didnt even know one of those existed

ken

Big Tim #70
03-27-2010, 05:55 AM
Harrier Demo....??? didnt even know one of those existed

ken



Yep.

Make sure you have hearing protection! :lol:

The harrier will also be at AC right before as well.

Steven Holzinger
03-27-2010, 08:58 AM
Having this show as part of AF Week, that might change things with regards to getting an ACC demo, since most shows with the Thunderbirds are not getting A-10, F-15E, F-16, or F-22 demos...

Chris S
03-28-2010, 12:05 AM
You're right, Steve, besides the Thunderbirds, F-18, and Harrier Demos
already on the schedule for Coney Island show, I'm hearing you can
also expect to see the A-10 Demo added to the line-up soon, along with
a couple of other Air Force aircraft flybys including the F-22 !! :wink:

Here's the recent Air Force announcement about "Air Force Week" in NYC:
http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123196516

gettysburgerrn
03-28-2010, 06:35 AM
Will there be 2 practtice days before the show? I cant fathom the traffic and crowds on the weekend- especially with a 4 yr old in tow :mrgreen: - she loves watching planes....but sitting in the car in traffic makes her more than a tad ornery

ken....

Gerard
03-28-2010, 07:47 AM
[quote="Chris S"]You're right, Steve, besides the Thunderbirds, F-18, and Harrier Demos
already on the schedule for Coney Island show, I'm hearing you can
also expect to see the A-10 Demo added to the line-up soon, along with
a couple of other Air Force aircraft flybys including the F-22 !! :wink:

That is going to be one SWEET SHOW!!! :D :D

Gerard
03-28-2010, 07:49 AM
[quote="gettysburgerrn"]Will there be 2 practtice days before the show? I cant fathom the traffic and crowds on the weekend- especially with a 4 yr old in tow :mrgreen: - she loves watching planes....but sitting in the car in traffic makes her more than a tad ornery

I'm on vacation that week so my Unlimited Metro card for LIRR/NYC subways will be getting a workout!! :)

gettysburgerrn
03-31-2010, 04:37 AM
Lucky you...maybe I canfigure out a railroad route there...Its gotta be better than the parking lot the belt will be....
ken :D

Gerard
03-31-2010, 05:50 PM
Lucky you...maybe I canfigure out a railroad route there...Its gotta be better than the parking lot the belt will be....
ken :D

Coming from LI, LIRR to Jamaica then switch to train to Atlantic Terminal, Brooklyn then connect to N, Q or D, l ast stop Coney Island. Probably an hour or so.

gettysburgerrn
04-01-2010, 05:49 AM
Excellent thanks for the directions!!

Ken :borat:

puckstopper55
04-06-2010, 08:33 AM
Do we have dates and times for this show? It looks to be shaping up very well, and may even be better then the Jones Beach Show.

Hopefully it will be a safe environment, and we wont have to worry too much about trouble. That area is iffy.

Is there more then 1 field? The only part of the beach I know about it right behind the amusement park, near the baseball stadium. Do we know where show center will be?

Fighting_falcon_51
04-06-2010, 10:12 AM
This is shaping out to be an excellent show, but now I have to decide between this or Atlantic City.

I haven't been to Coney Island but I did hear it was an iffy place so that is another concern I have.

Gerard
04-06-2010, 06:53 PM
[quote="puckstopper55"]Hopefully it will be a safe environment, and we wont have to worry too much about trouble. That area is iffy.

During the summer months and especially for an event like this the area will be well protected. I've been to CI each of
the last two summers for Cyclones games and plan to go again at the end of July and never had any problems. In fact
one year we hung out on the boardwalk after the game for a few hours and then I took the train back to the LIRR. And
this was in the evening. The air shows will be during the daylight hours.

puckstopper55
04-07-2010, 07:14 AM
Do we have firm dates and times? I would assume from the Air Force press release that it is Aug 28th and 29th. Do you agree? Do we know show times? I hate all of this not knowing! I want to plan!! (and beg my wife to go too, but I think I am flying solo .. pun intended :lol: )

Chris S
04-07-2010, 10:28 AM
FYI- From what I've heard the show will be 4 hours long,
so I would think it will be either 10AM - 2PM, or 11AM to 3PM.

Chris S
04-14-2010, 11:44 PM
The rest of the 2010 ACC schedule was released today and the
A-10 Demo was officially confirmed for Coney Island Air show also.
I've also heard the Geico Skytypers and the Lucas Oil Aerobatic Pitts
have been added to the civilian performers line-up for the show also.
Anyway, it's shaping up to be a great show with the Thunderbirds and demos by
the A-10, F-18, and Harrier along with other possible Air Force flybys too. :wink:

Chris S
04-28-2010, 01:52 PM
FYI- the website for the NYC Air Show at Coney Island is finally up with some info.
The Thunderbirds,Golden Knights, A-10, F-18 and Harrier are all scheduled to do demos,
and I've also heard from the show that the F-22 Raptor will be there doing some flybys also ! :D
Civilian Performers so far are the Geico Skytypers and the Lucas Oil Aerobatic Pitts.

Here's the link to the Air Show's website where more info should be posted soon:
http://www.nycairshow.com/

puckstopper55
05-14-2010, 10:32 AM
FYI- the website for the NYC Air Show at Coney Island is finally up with some info.
The Thunderbirds,Golden Knights, A-10, F-18 and Harrier are all scheduled to do demos,
and I've also heard from the show that the F-22 Raptor will be there doing some flybys also ! :D
Civilian Performers so far are the Geico Skytypers and the Lucas Oil Aerobatic Pitts.

Here's the link to the Air Show's website where more info should be posted soon:
http://www.nycairshow.com/


According to the website, the F-22 is official! Woo Hoo!!

Big Tim #70
05-14-2010, 06:23 PM
According to the website, the F-22 is official! Woo Hoo!!


Only for Flyby's though...

moose135
05-14-2010, 07:18 PM
According to the website, the F-22 is official! Woo Hoo!!
According to the Air Combat Command schedule (http://www.acc.af.mil/aerialevents/demoteamschedule.asp), the F-22 demo is going to be at Offutt AFB, NE that weekend...I guess we could get a fly by from one or more Langley jets, but not the demo.

PhantomII
05-18-2010, 12:21 PM
Been mentioned before, but heard officially that the Thunderbirds will be flying out of JFK for the show. There will be some activity at FRG in connection with the Coney Island show, but haven't gotten anything official yet. Stay tuned...

SpeedDemon88X
05-18-2010, 01:40 PM
Been mentioned before, but heard officially that the Thunderbirds will be flying out of JFK for the show. There will be some activity at FRG in connection with the Coney Island show, but haven't gotten anything official yet. Stay tuned...
:( I was looking foward to seeing them at Republic. Oh well.

Tom_Turner
05-27-2010, 05:42 PM
That's rare, Ken. Since their stated purpose is to act as a recruiting and promotional tool, they don't gain much by having them perform at the same show, but there are some exceptions. In June 2008, the Thunderbirds and Blue Angels joined the Snowbirds and Red Arrows in an airshow in Quebec, to celebrate that city's 400th anniversary. There have been a few airshows in the states where they have both performed as well - although I can't find it now, I seem to remember they both performed at Andrews AFB a few years ago during the JSOH show.

They both performed at Dayton Ohio a few years back. Snowbirds might have been there as well; I don't remember. JT was there with his 707. Save-A-Connie, B-52..lot of good stuff...

Tom

Speedbird1
05-28-2010, 05:32 AM
Good news. According to their schedule, they will perform on both August 28 and 29. Please clarify which aircraft they will use. Their site lists 4 different craft, including the F-16 Fighting Falcon and the F-4 Phantom II. I honestly know little about military aircraft as I concentrate on commercial aircraft. Thanks.

Big Tim #70
05-28-2010, 06:14 AM
Good news. According to their schedule, they will perform on both August 28 and 29. Please clarify which aircraft they will use. Their site lists 4 different craft, including the F-16 Fighting Falcon and the F-4 Phantom II. I honestly know little about military aircraft as I concentrate on commercial aircraft. Thanks.


Thunderbirds use F-16's.


On a related note, I spoke with Johnie Green yesterday & he said the T-Birds will luanch out of JFK but he's hoping the A-10's can go out of FRG.

alan h
06-18-2010, 02:31 PM
"They both performed at Dayton Ohio a few years back. Snowbirds might have been there as well; I don't remember. JT was there with his 707. Save-A-Connie, B-52..lot of good stuff...

Tom"

Hi,
All three North American teams were at Dayton in 2003.
http://www.airshowphoto.com/DAY03/index.htm

Alan h

Speedbird1
06-19-2010, 05:44 AM
Rwy 31L/13R should be open by the end of August but using it would delay traffic. I would think they would use Republic.

moose135
06-19-2010, 08:21 AM
Rwy 31L/13R should be open by the end of August but using it would delay traffic. I would think they would use Republic.
No, it has been confirmed - the Thunderbirds are using JFK.

Speedbagel_001
06-21-2010, 04:32 PM
Too bad Concorde won't be there when they arrive. Can you imagine a photo-op like that - with the T-birds in tight formation with the original "Bird of Thunder"?!

Joe
07-22-2010, 07:33 AM
Not a lot of info on this show, being about a month away, you would think there would be more info, even the shows website has almost no info on it. I am debating between this show and Pease, although Pease is an almost $400 investment between hotels, gas, and admission. I am going to Westfield the weekend prior, other than the Blue Angels, almost the same show. Any thoughts?

Big Tim #70
07-22-2010, 08:13 AM
There is almost no press about Coney Island.

They haven't had any updates.

There is no website.


At this point, I would be surprised if it happens at all.


I'm doing Westfield, ACY, then Pease next month. It's a bit of an investment but worth it, if for nothing else, the Strike Eagle. Not to mention there is going to be a Buff on Static & who knows what Schultz has in store for surprise guests.

Fighting_falcon_51
07-22-2010, 09:08 AM
The http://nycairshow.com/ website was updated with useless information.

I agree with Tim, I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't even happen.

Also the lineup also seems weak so I think I'm gonna go to ACY and then if the Cony Island show does happen I'll probably hang over by FRG if any of the performers are going to stay there.

george
07-22-2010, 09:19 AM
Yeah the website has no information at all.....

Derf
07-22-2010, 03:38 PM
Plans are set for the airshow performers. Airshow is on and there will be F/18's A-10's and Harriers as well as a C-17 at Farmingdale.

Gerard
07-22-2010, 08:14 PM
Plans are set for the airshow performers. Airshow is on and there will be F/18's A-10's and Harriers as well as a C-17 at Farmingdale.

Nice and its on the Thunderbirds website.

Joe
07-22-2010, 11:05 PM
Plans are set for the airshow performers. Airshow is on and there will be F/18's A-10's and Harriers as well as a C-17 at Farmingdale.


Hello Fred, are these planes confirmed to be at Republic? If so, I may forgo both Pease and Coney Island as the only thing Coney Island has going for it that I haven't seen yet is the Harriers and if I can see them at home(2 blocks away) it's just not worth the hassle of dealing with Coney Island for such a short show or the expense of Pease for a lesser show than Westfied the week prior. I went to RI last month and will be seeing the Thunderbirds again at Westfield in a few weeks. Again just my 2 cents.
Joe


PS. You take some phenomenal pictures!

Joe
07-22-2010, 11:12 PM
Also, speaking of Farmingdale, something large and silver took off this afternoon. I apologize for my lame description, I honestly don't know what kind of plane that it was. I was in my garage working on something and heard a very loud prop sound taking off, went out to see it, unfortunately the camera was inside so a picture wasn't a thought. The plane had four engines and a double tail I believe. Just in case anybody cares.

moose135
07-22-2010, 11:26 PM
Also, speaking of Farmingdale, something large and silver took off this afternoon. I apologize for my lame description, I honestly don't know what kind of plane that it was. I was in my garage working on something and heard a very loud prop sound taking off, went out to see it, unfortunately the camera was inside so a picture wasn't a thought. The plane had four engines and a double tail I believe. Just in case anybody cares.
If it was a silver airplane with two props and a twin tail, it could have been the museum's B-25:
http://www.moose135photography.com/American-Airpower-Museum/American-Airpower-Museum-1/JM20070902N2825B003/190915595_SQty6-L-2.jpg
Don't know of any four engine props that were at FRG - your description almost sounds like a B-24, but I think word would have gone out if a B-24 was at FRG (And I was at the airport Wednesday night, and there sure wasn't one on the field then...)

Joe
07-23-2010, 07:01 AM
Don't know of any four engine props that were at FRG - your description almost sounds like a B-24, but I think word would have gone out if a B-24 was at FRG (And I was at the airport Wednesday night, and there sure wasn't one on the field then...)

Thanks Moose,
That looks like the plane, however, I could have sworn that I saw 4 engines, I am probably wrong though. Depending upon what the planes do after take off, the standard flight path is about 4 houses north of mine this one was even further north so I saw the plane on a sideview angle instead of almost overhead. The Gieco skytypers almost always fly directly overhead before making a wide turn to the South.

Derf
07-23-2010, 07:25 AM
Kenny and I were at the 56th having a very nice lunch at around 2pm-2:30 Ken and I hear some BIG ROUND MOTORS an I hear Ken say "THATS THE B-24". Miss Hap departed and Ken beat me to the punch. Seconds later Ken Calls out when we hear another cool round motor... "SKYTYPER is airbore".

2 out of 2 Ken! Great time and thank you for lunch! :borat:

gettysburgerrn
07-29-2010, 04:23 AM
Did I read correctly- the Harriers will be at Republic??

Ken

Fighting_falcon_51
07-29-2010, 09:36 AM
Kenny and I were at the 56th having a very nice lunch at around 2pm-2:30 Ken and I hear some BIG ROUND MOTORS an I hear Ken say "THATS THE B-24". Miss Hap departed and Ken beat me to the punch. Seconds later Ken Calls out when we hear another cool round motor... "SKYTYPER is airbore".

2 out of 2 Ken! Great time and thank you for lunch! :borat:

Haha, it was my pleasure.

Derf
07-29-2010, 06:23 PM
Did I read correctly- the Harriers will be at Republic??

Ken

Umm... if you go back up to to my previous post I think I said...


Plans are set for the airshow performers. Airshow is on and there will be F/18's A-10's and Harriers as well as a C-17 at Farmingdale.

As I always say, during airshow... the best plans will change and all times will be wrong, but they know what will need fuel, where aircraft will be parked, and who will be on the ramp at midnight taking pictures....the rest is...well, Up in the air!"

All aircraft will be by Shelt Air except the C-17, that will be by the terminal.

Derf
07-29-2010, 06:24 PM
Haha, it was my pleasure.

Ken, The pleasure was all mine! :) Did you Aunt get her car back yet?

Derf
07-29-2010, 06:24 PM
Haha, it was my pleasure.

Ken, The pleasure was all mine! :) Did you Aunt get her car back yet?

Fighting_falcon_51
07-29-2010, 08:33 PM
Did you Aunt get her car back yet?

Yup, she got it back with a Nycaviation stickers intact :borat: :borat:

Chris S
07-30-2010, 12:02 AM
FYI - I received some BAD news today from Ted Plana, the Director of the Coney Island Air Show.
Unfortunately he confirmed that the show has been CANCELED for Aug. 28th & 29th. :cry:
It's too bad because I know Dusty was looking forward to bringing the A-10 back "home" again
to Republic Airport for the show, and I was also looking forward to seeing the Harrier, Hornet
and C-17 based out of FRG that weekend also.

gettysburgerrn
07-30-2010, 04:19 AM
Any reasons for the cancellation?

Ken

puckstopper55
07-30-2010, 07:24 AM
isnt it a bit too late to cancel? I mean everything was set and booked. The website makes no mention of this .. hopefully this is a mistake.

Chris S
07-30-2010, 09:03 AM
Any reasons for the cancellation?

Ken
Ted didn't give any specific reasons, and only said their there was more
to this story than people will ever know, but also added that he thought
the show would happen at Coney Island someday !!

This unfortunate news was also confirmed by the ACC, and I see they've already
taken Coney Island off their official list for the A-10 East Demo team and
I'm sure the Tbirds will be updating the schedule on their website soon also.

BTW, Here's the link for latest official ACC schedule updated on July 27th:
http://www.acc.af.mil/aerialevents/demoteamschedule.asp

puckstopper55
07-30-2010, 09:14 AM
Any reasons for the cancellation?

Ken
Ted didn't give any specific reasons, and only said their there was more
to this story than people will ever know, but also added that he thought
the show would happen at Coney Island someday !!

This unfortunate news was also confirmed by the ACC, and I see they've already
taken Coney Island off their official list for the A-10 East Demo team and
I'm sure the Tbirds will be updating the schedule on their website soon also.

BTW, Here's the link for latest official ACC schedule updated on July 27th:
http://www.acc.af.mil/aerialevents/demoteamschedule.asp


I really think the public deserves to know what happened. Was it lack of sponsors, politics, or what? This is really not a good situation.

Fighting_falcon_51
07-30-2010, 10:53 AM
Even though the show is canceled I have some good news from the AAM's website


Flight of Aces is Spitin’ history September 4th through the 6th

This award winning Labor Day weekend program is sponsored by Stop & Shop Supermarkets and remains a powerful tribute to those who have defended our nation. With visiting World War II aircraft from Warbirds over Long Island and a legendary Spitfire from the Duffy Collection visiting the region for the first time, this will truly be a Fighter flight line for the history books as the American Airpower Museum pays tribute to the 70th anniversary of the Battle of Britain.

Steven Holzinger
07-30-2010, 11:22 AM
I honestly believe that JFK and LGA didn't want this show to happen, especially considering the headaches both airports would have to deal with in regards to the airshow TFR and routing aircraft around it...

puckstopper55
07-30-2010, 11:56 AM
I honestly believe that JFK and LGA didn't want this show to happen, especially considering the headaches both airports would have to deal with in regards to the airshow TFR and routing aircraft around it...

Why not just move it 20 miles east to Jones beach and call it a day? I am sure the parks would love the additional revenue, as well as already knowing what to expect!

I have to think something else, other then airport concerns were the reason this was killed.

lijk604
07-30-2010, 12:28 PM
I honestly believe that JFK and LGA didn't want this show to happen, especially considering the headaches both airports would have to deal with in regards to the airshow TFR and routing aircraft around it...

Why not just move it 20 miles east to Jones beach and call it a day? I am sure the parks would love the additional revenue, as well as already knowing what to expect!

I have to think something else, other then airport concerns were the reason this was killed.

Dude...let it go. We all love airshows here, and are all disappointed, but they do not owe us anything. They made the announcement, it's well in advance of the show dates, so anyone who may have booked a hotel, airline, or car reservations can cancel them without penalty. Does it suck, yes, do they owe us anything more? No.

puckstopper55
07-30-2010, 01:16 PM
I honestly believe that JFK and LGA didn't want this show to happen, especially considering the headaches both airports would have to deal with in regards to the airshow TFR and routing aircraft around it...

Why not just move it 20 miles east to Jones beach and call it a day? I am sure the parks would love the additional revenue, as well as already knowing what to expect!

I have to think something else, other then airport concerns were the reason this was killed.

Dude...let it go. We all love airshows here, and are all disappointed, but they do not owe us anything. They made the announcement, it's well in advance of the show dates, so anyone who may have booked a hotel, airline, or car reservations can cancel them without penalty. Does it suck, yes, do they owe us anything more? No.

I didnt say they OWE us anything, but an explanation would be nice. Also, I am sure the T-Birds and ACC planes would rather be else where performing, rather then doing nothing this weekend now.

To get a commitment from the T-Birds takes a lot of work, so all I am really saying is that something major must have happened, and I would like to know what it is. Thats all.

Derf
07-30-2010, 01:34 PM
wow, that sucks!

Gerard
07-30-2010, 05:16 PM
wow, that sucks!

Uh YES!!!!!!
Does that mean the whole "Air Force Week" in NYC is cancelled? It was scheduled for Aug 24-29th.

Big Tim #70
07-30-2010, 06:55 PM
I didnt say they OWE us anything, but an explanation would be nice. Also, I am sure the T-Birds and ACC planes would rather be else where performing, rather then doing nothing this weekend now.

To get a commitment from the T-Birds takes a lot of work, so all I am really saying is that something major must have happened, and I would like to know what it is. Thats all.


The writing has been on the wall for months. Chris has been trying to get info about the show since April (if not earlier) and nothing was available, ever.

I don't know how many shows you've been to, but you can't just "move it 20 miles to the east & call it a day", especially in the busiest airspace in the world.

Maybe it will happen someday but the Logistics at Coney Island, especially with the Belt parkway construction are horrible. The chances of successfully pulling it off are very slim. It would have been very cool for those of us who venture to FRG to see t xhe aircraft launch & recover but I'm just not sure how the actual show at the beach would have been.

If you're looking to hit up a show that week, you can take the drive to Westfield & see the T-Birds on 8/21 & 8/22, Take the ride to Atlantic City & see one of the best, if not the best shows in the country on 8/25, or take the ride up to Portsmouth on 8/28 & 8/29 to see the Blues with another amazing supporting lineup. Hell, the travel time to Atlantic City will probably be the same as trying to navigate the Belt into and out of Coney Island anyway.

It's still going to be an AMAZING Airshow week!

fk6065
07-31-2010, 07:24 PM
Hell, the travel time to Atlantic City will probably be the same as trying to navigate the Belt into and out of Coney Island anyway.


Very true and probably a big reason why the show was cancelled.

NYC beaches do not charge admission, and are normally packed. Combine that with all the people that would try and come down for the airshow and it would be a traffic nightmare affecting Coney Island, the Belt Parkway and the Verrazano Bridge. What did Jones Beach draw on Sunday 200,000 roughly (I forget the exact #)

Then factor in air space problems & restrictions with Kennedy and LaGuardia and I am sure Newark to some degree, added security from the NYPD and all the overtime they would have to pay, plus the parks department and sanitation. I am sure the City said no to spending the $$ since it would not generate any real income for the City.

Atlantic City is always a great show, take the ride if you are off.

Gerard
08-01-2010, 09:06 AM
Hell, the travel time to Atlantic City will probably be the same as trying to navigate the Belt into and out of Coney Island anyway.


Very true and probably a big reason why the show was cancelled.

NYC beaches do not charge admission, and are normally packed. Combine that with all the people that would try and come down for the airshow and it would be a traffic nightmare affecting Coney Island, the Belt Parkway and the Verrazano Bridge. What did Jones Beach draw on Sunday 200,000 roughly (I forget the exact #)
Then factor in air space problems & restrictions with Kennedy and LaGuardia and I am sure Newark to some degree, added security from the NYPD and all the overtime they would have to pay, plus the parks department and sanitation. I am sure the City said no to spending the $$ since it would not generate any real income for the City.
.

All good points. I was there yesterday for a Cyclones game and it was a beautiful day and traffic was bad. And the beach isnt as big as Jones is so the squeeze in factor would be in effect.
Also you have lots of tall apt buildings close to the beach. The noise generated by the high performance aircraft would
surely shake, rattle and roll the residents.

puckstopper55
08-02-2010, 01:10 PM
Then why not look to have it at Jones Beach to start with?

Fighting_falcon_51
08-02-2010, 02:45 PM
Because they always had a show in May and it would be near impossible to get a 2nd set of sponsors for this show.

USAF Pilot 07
08-02-2010, 04:52 PM
Does that mean the whole "Air Force Week" in NYC is cancelled? It was scheduled for Aug 24-29th.

No. As far as I know and from what I've heard there is till an Air Force Week in August that will include several flyovers and events all over the city...

moose135
08-02-2010, 07:02 PM
Not that I have any "inside" information, but something doesn't add up. I don't buy that the show was canceled due to airspace congestion, or costs to the city, or traffic on the Belt Parkway. We've been talking about the show in this thread since February, the planning for it has been going on for months, maybe a year - the Thunderbirds included the show on their schedule that was announced in December. I would have thought that the airspace guys would have raised their concerns earlier than one month out, maybe when the Thunderbirds advance team visited JFK back in February. And I imagine the organizers would have needed to get various permits from the city long before now.

I came across something that may be a reason, especially given the timing of the decision - in the Thunderbird support manual I linked to on the first page of this thread, it says that for a civilian air show, a $6,000 fee is required to help offset the expenses involved, and the fee is required 30 days prior to the show. I wonder if some sponsors backed out, or never materialized, and the organizers found themselves coming up short, and decided to pull the plug?

imported_ch2tdriver
08-03-2010, 02:30 PM
quote "I don't know how many shows you've been to, but you can't just "move it 20 miles to the east & call it a day", especially in the busiest airspace in the world."

Well thats not entirely true. Anyone remember the T-Birds at Sunken Meadow Park of all places in October of 2000? In '97 and '98 we had the airshow out at Gabreski in Westhampton. There was no show in '99 that I recall, but it was planned for October of 2000 at Gabreski with the T-Birds as headliners. Previous shows did not have a jet team only A-10 demo IIRC. The birds were booked but for one reason or another the show fell apart and was cancelled. Who was behind it I don't know, possibly someone in LI gov or maybe the parks dept, but they kept the 'Birds booking and moved the display to Sunken Meadow (which is not a big park by Jones Beach standards).

That show was surreal. I went on Sunday. The clouds were rolling in and the 'Birds showed up early, to get the display in before a SNOW SQUALL moved in. That show box took them over some pretty populated areas, and that week in Newsday an article appeared with a lot of people complaining about noise and low flying. My parents were at the edge of the 5 mile ring in East Northport, and people on their block were coming out into the street to watch the F-16's buzz overhead as they repositioned for the next manuever.

So it's not impossible to move this show, or at least parts of it. The main question is who has the will and the cash in this economy.

Pete

Chris S
08-04-2010, 09:27 AM
FYI- The Thunderbirds have been officially rescheduled now
to be at the Offutt Airshow in NE on Aug. 28th and the 29th !!
Coney's Island's loss is Offutt's gain !!
Here's the Thunderbirds updated schedule on their site:
http://thunderbirds.airforce.com/schedule.html

atz
08-14-2010, 07:01 AM
I work in Coney Island and first posted about the air show and Air Force Week on my Coney Island blog "Amusing the Zillion" as well as on this forum back in December. Over the past few months we'd heard that the air show could not get all of the necessary permits--a complicated situation by all accounts- and wasn't going happen this year. But until the Thurnderbirds took Coney Island off their schedule, we didn't want to believe it! Air Force Week NYC is going on as scheduled and sending people to the Atlantic City Air Show. Events in Coney Island are limited to Air Force nights at the Brooklyn Cyclones and Ringling's Coney Island Circus.
http://www.airforceweek.af.mil/newyorkcity,ny,24-29aug10/index.asp

Derf
08-14-2010, 08:39 AM
The reason why the Coney Island Airshow was canceled was because it was going to cost $26,000+ dollars for the Police to be there and there was no money for that. No other reason that that. This is the reason.

Speedbird1
08-29-2010, 05:19 AM
Just a reminder that today's scheduled USAF Thunderbirds Air Show over Coney Island was canceled. It has been moved to somewhere over Nebraska instead. It was to honor Air Force Week. The reasons for cancellation have already been discussed elsewhere. At least we have Kid's Day to look forward to.

Billbo1970
08-29-2010, 07:41 AM
The website now says "Postponed until 2011". Are they really planning to try again next year, or is this just smoke?

Bill

Gerard
08-29-2010, 09:09 AM
The website now says "Postponed until 2011". Are they really planning to try again next year, or is this just smoke?
Bill

We'll find out in 2011 I guess. BTW too bad it was cancelled. You couldnt ask for better weather this weekend for an Air Show!!!

Derf
08-29-2010, 11:13 AM
They are tying to bring it back in 2011

chrisparypa
08-29-2010, 11:19 AM
No chance for 2011 show... They can't find sponsors and put air show together for the last 2-3 years ?? I don't believe that Thunderbirds will give Coney Island next chance, there will be no Coney Island on the Tbirds schedule for 2011, BA's posted 2011 already so there is no way that they will show up... so if they couldn't find sponsors etc for air show with Tbirds how come they will put everything together without one of the main jet teams ?? Snowbirds or Red Arrows maybe :)))))

Derf
08-29-2010, 12:09 PM
I do not understand what your post means, This year had nothing to do with sponsors...

Billbo1970
08-29-2010, 03:52 PM
I can't believe it got cancelled over $26,000.... that's not a lot at all. I chalk the whole fiasco up to very poor planning:

1. Hardly anybody I mentioned it to knew that there was going to be a show at Coney Island.

2. $26,000... really?! You couldn't have tried a fundraiser to scrape up that amount of money?? I'm sure you could have easily gotten 26G from aviation fans & local business' that would benefit from the influx of tourists....

Bill

Gerard
08-29-2010, 05:16 PM
The reason why the Coney Island Airshow was canceled was because it was going to cost $26,000+ dollars for the Police to be there and there was no money for that. No other reason that that. This is the reason.

Interesting that PD doesnt have $26,000 in their budget for the show but they allocate tons of $$$ for parades, demonstrations, baseball playoffs (Yankees NOt Mets LOL), UN Week etc.
And Bloomberg being very pro-aviation this would have been a no-brainer PLUS it would have been a shot in the arm for CI business.

puckstopper55
08-30-2010, 08:12 AM
I think it would be great to try it again next year. The only drawback that I could see if the T-Birds will be at Jones beach a few weeks earlier, so casual (non plane enthusiast) may not be as tempted to see the show again.

I would almost be tempted to say combine the 2 shows and make it 1 super awesome show!

Derf
08-30-2010, 10:07 AM
The Thunderbirds and Blue Angels bid every year to be in Jones Beach. They do not have room for most of the performers and have to cut out lots of acts for time is limited. If they let everyone perform, it would be 4 days long and nobody would fly twice! And it would cost more than it would bring in.

puckstopper55
08-30-2010, 11:14 AM
The Thunderbirds and Blue Angels bid every year to be in Jones Beach. They do not have room for most of the performers and have to cut out lots of acts for time is limited. If they let everyone perform, it would be 4 days long and nobody would fly twice! And it would cost more than it would bring in.

Are you saying that the T-Birds and Blues reach out and "request" to fly this show? I thought it was the other way around (ie, Jones beach organizers had to request the planes).

Why not start the show 1 hour earlier, and extend it 1 hour longer? Also, there does seem to be some down time between performances.

They could also try and make the days performers more jets, and less props, or vice versa.

Gerard
08-30-2010, 01:21 PM
The Thunderbirds and Blue Angels bid every year to be in Jones Beach. .

I thought they just rotated every year?

Derf
08-30-2010, 03:28 PM
I was told that that both requested it for the last 2 years. Many requests are denied as there are way to many request for performers for this airshow. It comes from a good source as does most of the info but it is never 100%. When it comes down to airshows, everything is fluid and changes as we saw in this thread. A confirmed airshow with all dates confirmed went belly up.

moose135
09-09-2010, 07:20 AM
They wasted all of our times since they never performed over Coney Island and nobody knows the reason for sure.
Other than reading some posts in this thread, they didn't waste any of our time...it's not like you were sitting on the beach all day waiting for them to perform, right?


Regarding the cash payment, the show was ultimately moved to a small town in Nebraska which I doubt could pay $5000 at the last minute.
They didn't move their show to a "small town in Nebraska". They performed at the annual air show at Offutt Air Force Base
(http://www.offuttairshow.com/)

Derf
09-09-2010, 10:16 AM
....We'll never know the real answer but.............

You are way too high strung, I explained the answer and will not go into any further details. Just because you spoke to someone who had NOTHING TO DO with the airshow in any way and they did not have the answer does not mean that nobody knows the answer. Please reread my posts because I am not going into any further detail.

Everyone has different answers because the people in the know are not talking much as not to piss off those who's support they need for next years show. If you think for one minute that the people who have shed blood sweat and tears to bring it to NY and then could not make it happen due to circumstances beyond their control...but still fought for it, and they owe you answers or an apology, you are very mistaken!

USAF Pilot 07
09-09-2010, 05:11 PM
They wasted all of our times since they never performed over Coney Island and nobody knows the reason for sure. I spoke to USAF reps over at the Intrepid last month during Air Force Week and they didn't know. Various explanations have been: the NYPD wouldn't give them the necessary permits to perform, the NYC airspace is too crowded, and that Coney Island needed to sponsor the show with a $5000 cash payment. We'll never know the real answer but a lot of us here were extremely disappointed especially since that weekend had gorgeous weather. Regarding the cash payment, the show was ultimately moved to a small town in Nebraska which I doubt could pay $5000 at the last minute.

Like Moose said, I don't know how they wasted your time - they cancelled the show before the event and before anyone would have headed out to the event. The only people's time they may have wasted were those who were on the airshow committee or involved in planning this. Also, I'm pretty sure the Omaha airshow was always scheduled to have the Tbirds - they moved them from NYC to Atlantic City for their airshow.

I don't think the reason for cancellation was a Thunderbird or even an Air Force thing. All Air Force weeks in the US (there are usually 3 or 4 per year in different cities) automatically get the Thunderbirds (i.e. AFAIK the city that gets it doesn't pay or have to raise $5000 to host them). The funding is already set aside when the cities are picked at the beginning of the year as part of the AF Week Budget. I think it seriously came down to the fact that city didn't want to pay the NYPD and other various city agencies (traffic, EMTs etc..) overtime to work this event. Something like this could cost the city upwards of $100,000 in manning/contingency planning etc...

Also, keep in mind, as much as you and I like airplanes, a lot of people don't and freak out about low flying airplanes making a lot of noise near buildings. From what I hear from a pretty reliable source, Mayor Bloomberg personally called the commander of the Operations Group down at McGuire to pretty much tell him that the KC10 doing the RedBulls flyover was not going to come close to NYC.

Oh well, maybe another year....

Gerard
09-09-2010, 07:54 PM
Like Moose said, I don't know how they wasted your time - they cancelled the show before the event and before anyone would have headed out to the event. The only people's time they may have wasted were those who were on the airshow committee or involved in planning this. Also, I'm pretty sure the Omaha airshow was always scheduled to have the Tbirds - they moved them from NYC to Atlantic City for their airshow.

I believe in the original schedule the TBirds were to fly AC Wed then do CI Sat/Sun. So Nebraska was the rescheduled shows. And yeah I was dissapointed CI was cancelled it would have been very cool but at least (for me) since I was on vacay that week I decided to do a road trip to AC and had an absolute blast!!

Speedbird1
09-19-2010, 06:04 AM
I misspoke out of anger. I was anticipating this show for months. I am unable to go to the ACY or Jones Beach shows as I cannot travel long distances for medical reasons. Many guys here on the forum take everything I say too literally; you must read my posts using " a fine tooth comb". When I said it wasted our time, I was referring to all the questions posed about where the Thunderbirds would park and how long a runway would be needed for the air show,et., which never happened. Wasn't that wasting all our times and what about those enthusiasts who arranged to visit NYC for that weekend just to view the airshow? Then had to cancel. I repeat I have the upmost respect for the USAF and in no way was blaming them and apologize if I offended anyone. We must realize that NYC will probably never have an airshow again since 9-11. Regards to all.

Derf
09-19-2010, 05:34 PM
...... We must realize that NYC will probably never have an airshow again since....

This is not true as there has been airshows in NYC after 9-11 already. And lets not also forget the not normal shows like the Red Arrows and Red bull. As per the long runway...They landed at Farmingdale last year.

Tom_Turner
09-21-2010, 08:11 PM
No B52 flyover at Citifield either...and no replacement aircraft...

Tom_Turner
09-23-2010, 08:42 AM
Re-reading the thread, I certainly hope the reason for the cancellation was not NYPD Over Time. NYC has to get over this notion that an army of police milling about is needed for every event. It simply isn't. For some it is, or might be, and for others it is not. Its an airshow and its not Altamont in 1969. Moreover its in New York City... no offense intended, but there are a lot of things to do in New York City. No matter how well publicized (this one was not, but even if it was) a lot of people are not going to know or care or want to know. And if they do know, they will not be attending. There is *not* miles and miles of parking at Coney Island. In fact there is not much at all. Its come *very* early or come by Public Transportation or not at all. People in New York City know this. Its not going to be Jones Beach. If one looks at images of Coney Island back as late as the early 1960s, and certainly for decades before that, (people did not typically have air conditioning or "refrigeration" appliances) one would notice you barely can see the sand/beach. The beach was covered by --- people. Those were real "crowds". And, it was apparently an every day, sunny day/hot day, event in the summer. No riots. No army of police / OT.

Tom