American Airlines F/A's May Vote for Strike as Soon as Fri

[Matt Molnar]

Bloomberg:

AMR May Face Attendant Strike Vote as Talks Near End (Update1) (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aA_b9jImJRN8&pos=6)

By Mary Schlangenstein

Jan. 20 (Bloomberg) -- American Airlines may face a strike vote by flight attendants as soon as Jan. 22 as the world’s second-largest carrier and the employees’ union approach the end of their bargaining session tomorrow.

Balloting may be pushed back if the two sides are making progress when the talks near their scheduled conclusion, said Laura Glading, president of the Association of Professional Flight Attendants. No walkout is imminent.

The so-called focused negotiations that began Jan. 11 are a bid to wrap up bargaining that began in June 2008 with Fort Worth, Texas-based American trying to reduce its industry- leading labor expenses and attendants pushing for higher pay. The union struck the AMR Corp. unit for five days in 1993.

[hiss srq]

:borat: Look for the pilots to be getting somthing into action soon too.

[Matt Molnar]

AA is broke, and will be broker once JAL bounces oneworld. Everyone will be lucky if they have a job at their current pay, nevermind getting a raise.

[hiss srq]

Management still get's their cut so why not everyone else. Watch for AA's slow taxi's to get slower and slower. And their F/A's defineately need a raise. Have you ever seen what F/A's make? It is deploreable.

[ISP Pilot]

Management still get's their cut so why not everyone else.
Exactly. The CEO of Continental refuses to accept a salary until CO makes a full year profit. CO actually reported a quarterly profit so only 3 more quarters of profits to go. Gerard Arpey, the AA CEO, should do the same instead of accepting bonuses on top of his salary while AA is reporting quarterly losses.

[USAF Pilot 07]

I saw an Eagle flight at OMA last weekend come in, unload pax and bags, fill up with new pax and bags, and then go to the de-icing pad to get de-iced before take off. The temperature was a few degrees above freezing (like 36/37) there was no precip, and NO other aircraft were getting de-iced prior to takeoff...

Not that I don't think the crew had a reason to get de-iced (could be something with the CRJ (or ERJ I forget) they were flying), or a company policy, or just being very prudent, but I found it really odd that no other aircraft were getting de-iced, and here comes this Eagle flight that just came in an hour before getting sprayed....

Got me thinking...

[ISP Pilot]

I saw an Eagle flight at OMA last weekend come in, unload pax and bags, fill up with new pax and bags, and then go to the de-icing pad to get de-iced before take off. The temperature was a few degrees above freezing (like 36/37) there was no precip, and NO other aircraft were getting de-iced prior to takeoff...

Not that I don't think the crew had a reason to get de-iced (could be something with the CRJ (or ERJ I forget) they were flying), or a company policy, or just being very prudent, but I found it really odd that no other aircraft were getting de-iced, and here comes this Eagle flight that just came in an hour before getting sprayed....

Got me thinking...
AA and Eagle have different pilot and FA unions even though the parent company is AMR. AA has their own in-house labor unions - APA for pilots and APFA for flight attendants.

[T-Bird76]

AA should have filed for Chapter 11 years ago like DAL and UAL did, they would have been in far better fiscal shape then they are today. They tried doing the right thing and still can improve their balance sheet but they're a lot of variables that they need to play right. They have reduced their overall debt and narrowed their losses but a spike in fuel prices or a prolonged dip in the economy is going to force them into Chapter 11.

FA's are being greedy and the pilots are acting like children with their PR campaign that’s all over Dallas. They are still paid far higher and work less then a lot of their counter parts. They also need to stop crying about management bonuses. The fact is most company's offer MBO's to their managers and its only fair that if the managers reach their objectives, which btw are often in line with overall company goals, they are paid their MBO bonus if achieved. An MBO is not the same thing as a bonus that is paid based on fiscal results btw.

Also keep in mind bonuses are their too entice you to reach a goal that is outside of your overall job description. The bonus is also their too retain talent that may very well walk to a competitor without the financial incentive. Lose your talent and the company is done.

[NLovis]

Well AA had enough money to weather the ride thats why they never went into CH 11. But as you inch closer to the actual flight date they really raise prices on tickets and rip you off. If you wanted to book a flight for 7 days from now on super economy it would be close to $1000. If you book 2-3 months in advance they have some good prices otherwise. The service is good as well. As far as everything else goes the F/A's should realise they might be egtting paid more but have a bigger chance of getting laid off. Lets see what happens now.

[Matt Molnar]

FA's are being greedy and the pilots are acting like children with their PR campaign that’s all over Dallas.
At least they're not BA's unions...the pilot's union is actually encouraging its members to scab as cabin crew if the F/A's strike, which is absolutely insane in the world of unions....not only is scabbing just about the worst thing you can do as far as a union is concerned under any circumstances, scabbing YOUR OWN CO-WORKERS is a whole new level of depravity.

[NLovis]

FA's are being greedy and the pilots are acting like children with their PR campaign that’s all over Dallas.
At least they're not BA's unions...the pilot's union is actually encouraging its members to scab as cabin crew if the F/A's strike, which is absolutely insane in the world of unions....not only is scabbing just about the worst thing you can do as far as a union is concerned under any circumstances, scabbing YOUR OWN CO-WORKERS is a whole new level of depravity.
Agreed. Whoever is running that union needs to get a boot to the head :mrgreen: and then a boot out.

[hiss srq]

I am actually concerned about this scabbing talk. I am also not sure why the union would encourage it. I have been out of my normal circles lately as far as union chatter goes but it does not make sense in the least to me.

[USAF Pilot 07]

At least they're not BA's unions...the pilot's union is actually encouraging its members to scab as cabin crew if the F/A's strike, which is absolutely insane in the world of unions....not only is scabbing just about the worst thing you can do as far as a union is concerned under any circumstances, scabbing YOUR OWN CO-WORKERS is a whole new level of depravity.


I don't see how the pilots could "scab" for FAs... Are the pilots trained to evacuate hundreds of people on an aircraft? Even if they are, would the FAA (or whatever European org) allow them to substitute for FAs? If there were no FAs BA would have to augment the "crew" on the aircraft to have like 6 pilots on board to fulfill the requirements of pax to FA ratio.. DOn't see how this would cost less than having FAs on board...

[hiss srq]

No is the answer to that question. Not part 121 at least to answer your question USAF. That is what left me scratching my head outside thee whole scabbing thing in gen.

[Matt Molnar]

How hard is it to train people evacuation procedures? I feel like everyone working on the plane, i.e. the pilots + f/a's should know that stuff.

[hiss srq]

It is not hard per se but the at any airline I am familliar with the flight deck crew is not trained on the cabin commands. Obviously since poo poo rolls down hill and the ball starts with the pilots when you commence evacuation there is an understanding but their is no criteria as far as cabin training goes for pilots. In the airlines flight attendants carry an airmen certificate certifying them as F/A's. From there it is diffrences training from equip type to equip type. Everything from doors sim's to evac procedure and sims from subfleet type to sub fleet type. It is actually pretty complex above and beyond what one might think. For example. At my company we have 3 F/A's. We only use F/A's on the Challenger 604 the Legacy and the Gulfstreams. Two out of three are checked out for the Gulfstream and sometimes when we are heavy on Gulfstream flights we actually have to fly without a flight attendant even though the Legacy F/A is avail because that particular F/A is not checked out for G strings. (Though said F/A looks wonderful in them) :borat: :lol: :lol:

[ISP Pilot]

The UK aviation regs might be different, i.e. the FAs there may or may not have airmen certificates. BA management is even soliciting gate and ramp agents to be trained as FAs. I certainly would not feel comfortable being on a plane with all new recruits relying on them to save my a*s in the event of an emergency!

[NLovis]

The UK aviation regs might be different, i.e. the FAs there may or may not have airmen certificates. BA management is even soliciting gate and ramp agents to be trained as FAs. I certainly would not feel comfortable being on a plane with all new recruits relying on them to save my a*s in the event of an emergency!
You rather have somebody trained or somebody who doesnt know what to do? I've spoken my point.

[hiss srq]

Inflight training is pretty regulated. To be an F/A you have to pass a company physical, learn the commands plus know the tones and light signals from the flight deck. On top of that you need to (as stated before) be proficent in door operation because aircraft doors and procedure from type to type are very diffrent. For example. On a few aircraft you have to open the door from the outside at a gate or the slide will blow. I cant recall which type it was but I remember the process from a training. You verify a ribbon across the window. If there is a ribbon, dont touch the door. Once the ribbon is removed you knock and the F/A will give a thumbs up or thumbs down at which point you do or dont open the door. That is a simple example. People would be amazed at the training process F/A's actually go through in order to be certifyed. I was amazed when I saw what the guys and gals actually have to do.

[USAF Pilot 07]

How hard is it to train people evacuation procedures? I feel like everyone working on the plane, i.e. the pilots + f/a's should know that stuff.

Not tough, but I'm thinking more along the lines of a "legality" issue...