Passenger Lights Firecrackers on Northwest Flight!

[Derf]

Lands in Detroit, Minor Injuries reported -CNN

MERRY CHRISTMAS!!! :borat:

[Matt Molnar]

It was an A330, enroute to Detroit from Amsterdam, 278 on board.

Someone's spending Christmas night in jail!

[USAF Pilot 07]

Moron! Why would anyone do that?????

[Derf]

free food for the holidays!!!

I can see the jail cell now
BUBBA: (In a very deep voice) I'll show you Fireworks!!!!

[Matt Molnar]

Some Dutch airport security folks have some 'splaining to do.

[USAF Pilot 07]

Reports are now saying this was a terrorist attempt by a Nigerian man with ties to Al Qaeda...

http://wcbstv.com/national/delta.plane. ... 91114.html (http://wcbstv.com/national/delta.plane.fire.2.1391114.html)



Official: Passenger Attempted To Blow Up Plane
Passenger Aboard Delta Plane At Detroit Metropolitan Airport Sets Off Fireworks; No Injuries Reported

WASHINGTON (AP) - A passenger on board a Delta flight from Amsterdam to Detroit on Christmas Day was trying to blow up the plane when he ignited fireworks, a U.S. Defense official said Friday.

The incident only ended up causing a commotion and some minor injuries.

The firecrackers went off as Northwest Airlines Flight 253, an Airbus 330 carrying 278 passengers and operated by Delta, was arriving in Detroit from Amsterdam. Delta and Northwest have merged.

Elliott says the passenger was immediately subdued. She had no details on injuries.

One passenger from the flight was taken to the University of Michigan Medical Center in Ann Arbor, hospital spokeswoman Tracy Justice said. She didn't know the person's condition, or whether the person was a man or woman. She referred all inquiries to the FBI.

An FBI spokeswoman in Detroit says the incident is being investigated.

It is also not known how the fireworks were allowed onboard, but the spokesperson told CBS News that the airline "is cooperating with authorities during this investigation."

J.P. Karas, 55, of Wyandotte, Mich., said he was driving down a road near the airport and saw a Delta jet at the end of the runway, surrounded by police cars, an ambulance, a bus and some TV trucks.

"I don't ever recall seeing a plane on that runway ever before and I pass by there frequently," he said.

Karas said it was difficult to tell what was going on, but it looked like the front wheel was off the runway.

The flight left Amsterdam's Schiphol International Airport at 8:45 a.m. local time Friday morning and arrived in Detroit a 12:01 p.m. CST.

[Laxgoaly]

Dec 25, 5:49 PM EST

A senior U.S. counterterror official says a passenger aboard a Delta Air Lines flight in Detroit was planning to blow up the plane but the explosive device failed.

The official said the passenger was being questioned Friday evening. It was not immediately clear why the passenger wanted to attack the flight that was arriving from Amsterdam.

The official spoke on condition of anonymity because the investigation was continuing.

Authorities initially believed the passenger had set off firecrackers that caused some minor injuries.

A Delta spokeswoman said the passenger was immediately subdued.

She had no details on the injuries.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.

ROMULUS, Mich. (AP) - A passenger aboard a plane at Detroit Metropolitan Airport set off firecrackers Friday, causing a commotion and some minor injuries, a Delta official said.

Delta Air Lines spokeswoman Susan Elliott said the passenger was subdued immediately. She had no details on the injuries.

One passenger from the flight was taken to the University of Michigan Medical Center in Ann Arbor, hospital spokeswoman Tracy Justice said. She didn't know the person's condition, or whether the person was a man or woman. She referred all inquiries to the FBI.

An FBI spokeswoman in Detroit said the incident is being investigated.

The firecrackers went off as Northwest Airlines Flight 253, an Airbus 330 carrying 278 passengers, was arriving in Detroit from Amsterdam. Delta and Northwest have merged.

J.P. Karas, 55, of Wyandotte, Mich., said he was driving down a road near the airport and saw a Delta jet at the end of the runway, surrounded by police cars, an ambulance, a bus and some TV trucks.

"I don't ever recall seeing a plane on that runway ever before and I pass by there frequently," he said.

Karas said it was difficult to tell what was going on, but it looked like the front wheel was off the runway.

[hiss srq]

Holy ****! Really, thats all I can say.

[FlyingColors]

Now the news said it was some sort of bomb.
Plus mentioned to expect the TSA to increase the level of screening, and delays, even more.

[Matt Molnar]

DHS has raised the threat level for airline flights to Orange.

[Matt Molnar]

White House is now saying it was an attempted terrorist attack.

AP reports senior U.S. counterterrorism official said the device consisted of liquid and powder, but it failed to work properly.

ABC: Fedederal situational awareness bulletin noted that the explosive was acquired in Yemen with instructions as to when it should be used.

[USAF Pilot 07]

Already posted in the "NEWS AND AIRCRAFT VISITORS" thread here:

passenger-lights-firecrackers-on-northwest-flight-t17885.html (http://www.nycaviation.com/forum/passenger-lights-firecrackers-on-northwest-flight-t17885.html)

Continue discussion there!


Thanks!

[emshighway]

DHS has raised the threat level for airline flights to Orange.

Airports have always been on Orange, other modes are ay yellow. We are going to Super Secret Orange.

[moose135]

We are going to Super Secret Orange.
Is that anything like Double Secret Probation? Maybe someone should have gotten Homeland Security the big box of crayons for Christmas, then they could go to Level "Mauve". :shock: :wink:

[Matt Molnar]

We are going to Super Secret Orange.
Is that anything like Double Secret Probation? Maybe someone should have gotten Homeland Security the big box of crayons for Christmas, then they could go to Level "Mauve". :shock: :wink:
Heaven help us if we ever reach Elmo!
http://www.geekandproud.net/terror/images/terror-all.jpg

[Tom_Turner]

Here we go again......

<< Law enforcement officials identified the suspect as 23-year-old Nigerian Umar Farouk Abdul Mutallab. Others had slightly different spellings.

While Mudallah was not a no-fly list, his name was in a database indicating that he had significant terrorist connections, said Rep. Peter King, R-N.Y.>>

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/internatio ... z0alD1IBRc (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/international/passenger_ignites_firecrackers_on_gpt0DT8ybAlHzISj EW7BqL#ixzz0alD1IBRc)

[Matt Molnar]

We had to take off our shoes after Richard Reid? Will we have to take off our pants now?

[Matt Molnar]

US TSA granted seal of approval to security procedures at Lagos, Nigeria airport exactly a month ago. http://is.gd/5BIC6

[PhilDernerJr]

The thing I dislike most about this is the negativity that ends up surrounding it....mostly with a blame game, instead of being thankful, thinking positively and more importantly, looking towards solutions.

His name being one that was known and supposed to be on the list...mistake was made and I'm sure someone will lose their job(s) over it. I would bet it probably won't happen again and they'll find a way to get around any misspelling issues.

The liquid ban has nothing to do with us, as he didn't get through our airport screening. I'm sure new procedures and requirements will be implemented or enforced with regard to how foreign countries screen.

Most importantly, we see the determination and teamwork of American civilians who stepped up when seeing danger and going after this guy as he tried to pull it off.

[emshighway]

We are going to Super Secret Orange.
Is that anything like Double Secret Probation? Maybe someone should have gotten Homeland Security the big box of crayons for Christmas, then they could go to Level "Mauve". :shock: :wink:
Heaven help us if we ever reach Elmo!
http://www.geekandproud.net/terror/images/terror-all.jpg

LOL, you should see some of the things we have made up. :)

[emshighway]

US TSA granted seal of approval to security procedures at Lagos, Nigeria airport exactly a month ago. http://is.gd/5BIC6

Just because the TSA did an inspection doesn't mean the TSA controls what these overseas airports do.

[T-Bird76]

I was kind of surprised the White has come out and said it was an attempted Terrorist attack. I would have expected a response closer to "lets get all the facts before we call it an attempted terrorist attack." I'm glad it ended as well as it did and that he was caputured. Hopefully the FBI can extract some good intel from him.

[Gerard]

US TSA granted seal of approval to security procedures at Lagos, Nigeria airport exactly a month ago. http://is.gd/5BIC6

Just because the TSA did an inspection doesn't mean the TSA controls what these overseas airports do.

For some reason TSA in Lagos, Nigeria doesnt given me the "warm and fuzzies".

[Gerard]

>Most importantly, we see the determination and teamwork of American civilians who stepped up when seeing danger and going after this guy as he tried to pull it off.[/quote]<

Actually in this instance it was a Dutch film director.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... on_no.html (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2009/12/26/2009-12-26_jasper_schuringa_helped_subdue_alleged_terroris t_umar_farouk_abdulmutallab_on_no.html)

[T-Bird76]

Why is everyone (not on this site) blaming the TSA and their procedures? Last i checked AMS security wasn't run by the TSA.

[mmedford]

I'll take the stand of holding the entire DHS accountable for this one...someone dropped the ball, and it doesn't matter which uniform their were wearing...

[emshighway]

I'll take the stand of holding the entire DHS accountable for this one...someone dropped the ball, and it doesn't matter which uniform their were wearing...

Wait a minute, DHS is a United States Department. While they work with other countries to assist them it is the other countries responsibilities to conform to the international standards. The matter of watch lists and no fly lists again is a US driven matter. Countries do what ever they want. If you are going to blame US DHS for this perhaps we should get to the point of banning flights coming into the US or have them all land at a neutral location and passenger and baggage be screened before continuing to the US.

And yes I do work for DHS so I do have the insight on this matter.

[mmedford]

perhaps we should get to the point of banning flights coming into the US or have them all land at a neutral location and passenger and baggage be screened before continuing to the US.

You know what, if this keeps up... I potentially see that happening...

[Tom_Turner]

Unless I am mistaken, if Umar Farouk Abdul Mutallab was on the US No fly list, the aircraft would not be allowed to enter US space. Isn't that right? Haven't aircraft been diverted from US Airspace that have departed Amsterdam in the past due to who boarded the aircraft?

[of course would be terrorists can simply change their names, use other's id and photo etc... ]

Tom

[Tom_Turner]

<< Alhaji Umarum Mutallab, former Nigeria First Bank chairman, ex-minister, told police Saturday, Dec. 26, that the 23-year old Nigerian who tried and failed to blow up the Amsterdam-Detroit Northwest Flight 253 Friday, Dec. 25, is his son. According to family members, he had been worried by his son's extremist religious views and six months ago reported his activities to the US embassy in Lagos. Devastated by the news of the attempted bombing, he said he was surprised his son had been given a US visa. >>

http://www.debka.com/headline.php?hid=6437

Tom

[emshighway]

Unless I am mistaken, if Umar Farouk Abdul Mutallab was on the US No fly list, the aircraft would not be allowed to enter US space. Isn't that right? Haven't aircraft been diverted from US Airspace that have departed Amsterdam in the past due to who boarded the aircraft?

[of course would be terrorists can simply change their names, use other's id and photo etc... ]

Tom

He wasn't on a no-fly list.

[emshighway]

<< Alhaji Umarum Mutallab, former Nigeria First Bank chairman, ex-minister, told police Saturday, Dec. 26, that the 23-year old Nigerian who tried and failed to blow up the Amsterdam-Detroit Northwest Flight 253 Friday, Dec. 25, is his son. According to family members, he had been worried by his son's extremist religious views and six months ago reported his activities to the US embassy in Lagos. Devastated by the news of the attempted bombing, he said he was surprised his son had been given a US visa. >>

http://www.debka.com/headline.php?hid=6437

Tom

My speculation is this will be one agency not sharing information with another. This is a personal view.

[emshighway]

We are going to Super Secret Orange.
Is that anything like Double Secret Probation? Maybe someone should have gotten Homeland Security the big box of crayons for Christmas, then they could go to Level "Mauve". :shock: :wink:
Heaven help us if we ever reach Elmo!
http://www.geekandproud.net/terror/images/terror-all.jpg

The Classified Paperwork coverpages have been updated:
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j12/emshighway/Classifications.jpg

[Tom_Turner]

Unless I am mistaken, if Umar Farouk Abdul Mutallab was on the US No fly list, the aircraft would not be allowed to enter US space. Isn't that right? Haven't aircraft been diverted from US Airspace that have departed Amsterdam in the past due to who boarded the aircraft?

[of course would be terrorists can simply change their names, use other's id and photo etc... ]

Tom

He wasn't on a no-fly list.

Yes, that's right, [see the first excerpt I posted, referring to Rep Peter King]. But as you indicated the No Fly list is a US Driven instrument, so no fault to Amsterdam if they don't stop this guy getting on the plane (for who he is at least).

Tom

[emshighway]

[quote="Tom_Turner":zzvqm9zt]Unless I am mistaken, if Umar Farouk Abdul Mutallab was on the US No fly list, the aircraft would not be allowed to enter US space. Isn't that right? Haven't aircraft been diverted from US Airspace that have departed Amsterdam in the past due to who boarded the aircraft?

[of course would be terrorists can simply change their names, use other's id and photo etc... ]

Tom

He wasn't on a no-fly list.

Yes, that's right, [see the first excerpt I posted, referring to Rep Peter King]. But as you indicated the No Fly list is a US Driven instrument, so no fault to Amsterdam if they don't stop this guy getting on the plane (for who he is at least).

Tom[/quote:zzvqm9zt]

Not by just being on a list. The use of technology such as the whole body imager needs to be accelerated. The threat is moving faster than the technology.

[cancidas]

The threat is moving faster than the technology.
isn't that always the case though?



according to this NY Times article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/27/us/27security.html?_r=1&hp

The government was vague about the steps it was taking, saying that it wanted the security experience to be “unpredictable” and that passengers would not find the same measures at every airport — a prospect that may upset airlines and travelers alike.
i for one would definitely fly a lot less if security became more of a hassle and more "unpredictable." i can understand the reasoning behind it, but when i fly out to CA for a few days at a time i like being able to take along everything i need with me in my carry-on. as a non-rev i don't ever check bags, and eventually when i return to being a paying pax i don't think i'd want to either. i'm sure that business travelers everywhere aren't happy with this. yes i know these changes effect international travel more than it does domestic now, but i fully expect it all to come full circle and effect everyone.

[Speedbird1]

I have several comments about this terrorist act. This guy was permitted to leave his seat to use the restroom during final approach. On my last flight, I was told that passengers cannot use toilets during final approach. According to reports on TV, he prepared his bomb in the bathroom. Why was he permitted to leave his seat? I was even told to turn-off my camcorder during final approach. His father went to the authorities to report his son was acting in a suspicious manner yet he was never placed on a "No Fly" list. Why not? The same thing happened before 9-11. Actor James Woods reported to the FBI that 2 passengers sitting near him were acting suspiciously but no action was taken. It turned out sadly that they were part of the evil hijacking team that attacked us on 9-11. Several of them were even reported by their respective flight schools because they asked for lessons on flying and landing but not how to take-off. That certainly was suspicious. Current security measures seem to harrass the innocent. I hope the TSA drastically changes their screening policies. They go crazy when they see plane-spotters taking photos of aircraft yet are lax about what is brought aboard aircraft.

[Gerard]

> Current security measures seem to harrass the innocent. I hope the TSA drastically changes their screening policies. They go crazy when they see plane-spotters taking photos of aircraft yet are lax about what is brought aboard aircraft.[/quote]<

Well it isnt the TSA harassing spotters but I agree with that point.
What has happened that even though the explosion didnt go off as planned the "terrorists" can claim a "victory".
They have disrupted TSA security procedures during the busiest air travel season.
The media is already going wall-to-wall with coverage questioning the Obama administration and our own
airline security. Much of it negative in tone.
And of course the psychological impact on the American public.

[cancidas]

just heard that today, 27 december there was another incident on the same flight. aparently the flight crew called DTW for assistance for a disruptive pax.

[Matt Molnar]

A man, possibly Nigerian, locked himself in the bathroom on today's NW253 and became belligerent when the crew knocked down the door and dragged him out. The plane was taxied to a remote area at Detroit Metro airport, passengers were evacuated onto buses.

AP now reporting investigators have determined he was just a businessman who got sick.

Multi-million dollar vs. Delta any second now.

[emshighway]

A man, possibly Nigerian, locked himself in the bathroom on today's NW253 and became belligerent when the crew knocked down the door and dragged him out. The plane was taxied to a remote area at Detroit Metro airport, passengers were evacuated onto buses.

AP now reporting investigators have determined he was just a businessman who got sick.

Multi-million dollar vs. Delta any second now.

Only an Angry, Sick Nigerian. All clear given.

[Delta777LR]

Pretty much a sick man, I just thank god that DL/NW 253 made it into DTW landed safely and the looneytune was captured..

[T-Bird76]

A man, possibly Nigerian, locked himself in the bathroom on today's NW253 and became belligerent when the crew knocked down the door and dragged him out. The plane was taxied to a remote area at Detroit Metro airport, passengers were evacuated onto buses.

AP now reporting investigators have determined he was just a businessman who got sick.

Multi-million dollar vs. Delta any second now.

Our society is losing it.... Terrorists don't have to blow up airliners to mentally destroy us...we are doing it ourselves.

[emshighway]

Umar Farouk Abdul Mutallab was not on a No-Fly list but a list of persons of interest. There are over half a million people on that list. Unless there is corroborating or addition information can the person be escalated onto other lists then the no-fly list. I suspect he made the first list due to his father speaking to the US Embassy in Nigeria.

It amazes me people not too long ago complained about the lists and how many people were on them and now they complain not enough people are on the lists. Same with screening, people complain about whole body imagers because of invasion of privacy, the technology was dialed down to avoid this while still working but that wasn't enough. Now people are jumping that screening didn't work. Unfortunately if security is going to work you can't have it both ways.

I work directly with the technology and some of the new stuff coming out is great but it is big, expensive and some slower. This could mean less screening lanes and longer lines. There has been technology that companies made claims that weren't the case. TSA got slammed for trying to make it work.

Do I agree with the latest measures put in place? Not really but I follow my marching orders.

When in doubt the TSA is at fault.

[coachrowsey]

There is no way EVER that I will get in the nude o scope machine. They can go strait to ....

[coachrowsey]

Since we take off our shoes because of the shoe bomber next we will take of our underwear because of the underwear bomber. :evil:

[FlyingColors]

A man, possibly Nigerian, locked himself in the bathroom on today's NW253 and became belligerent when the crew knocked down the door and dragged him out. The plane was taxied to a remote area at Detroit Metro airport, passengers were evacuated onto buses.

AP now reporting investigators have determined he was just a businessman who got sick.

Multi-million dollar vs. Delta any second now.

Our society is losing it.... Terrorists don't have to blow up airliners to mentally destroy us...we are doing it ourselves.

How well put.

[FlyingColors]

> Current security measures seem to harrass the innocent. I hope the TSA drastically changes their screening policies. They go crazy when they see plane-spotters taking photos of aircraft yet are lax about what is brought aboard aircraft.<

Well it isnt the TSA harassing spotters but I agree with that point.
What has happened that even though the explosion didnt go off as planned the "terrorists" can claim a "victory".
They have disrupted TSA security procedures during the busiest air travel season.
The media is already going wall-to-wall with coverage questioning the Obama administration and our own
airline security. Much of it negative in tone.
And of course the psychological impact on the American public.[/quote]

No- its true, the TSA are major jerks if your trying to spot- nevermind take pics- in the terminal.
Their system is broken and needs to be fixed- cuz its not working!

[emshighway]

There is no way EVER that I will get in the nude o scope machine. They can go strait to ....

The nude-o-scope only shows a ghost image now. The photos that you may have seen were when it was originally released for review and it was dialed down a little then. I have been to our tech center where they can dial it up. Everyone looks at each other straight in the eyes there.

And I'll use the joke we have: "Don't worry, it aint no big thing" :shock:

[moose135]

The same thing happened before 9-11. Actor James Woods reported to the FBI that 2 passengers sitting near him were acting suspiciously but no action was taken. It turned out sadly that they were part of the evil hijacking team that attacked us on 9-11.
No, that's incorrect. He apparently saw several men who he thought were acting suspiciously, he told a flight attendant about it, and she reported it to the cockpit. The crew said they would file a report with the FAA. Following the 9/11 attacks, he called the FBI to report what he had seen on his flight, and he was subsequently questioned by the FBI. While he couldn't definitively identify any of the suspicious passengers as 9/11 hijackers, he claims that he was told by a "high government official", not in the FBI, that the men he saw were involved in the 9/11 attacks.

I saw this in a couple of stories about

...attempting to blow up a Detroit-bound commercial airliner on Christmas with explosives that had been sewn into his underwear...
We all know what happened with security screening after they caught the "Shoe Bomber". I can't wait for what the TSA will come up with now! I'm sure glad I'm not in EMShighway's shoes :shock:

[mirrodie]

The nude-o-scope only shows a ghost image now. The photos that you may have seen were when it was originally released for review and it was dialed down a little then. I have been to our tech center where they can dial it up. Everyone looks at each other straight in the eyes there.

Dude, if you guys want to see my junk, at least treat me to dinner and a drink. Sheesh!


Ok, all kidding aside, I am glad to hear twas a miracle of sorts that it did not go off.

I think the biggest issue to come out of this is that yet again, one agency is not sharing info with another. It's always amazing to see how much we know of those people AFTER the fact, and not before. And this is after his guy;s father called in to authorities!


You can harass aviation spotters to no avail.
you can make us remove our shoes and look at our junk, perhps to some positive benefit.

But if the agencies do not communicate to each other, the system is still not efficient.

[emshighway]

It makes sense to use a Nigerian to smuggle explosives in this underwear. Could you see an Irish man try that? It would look very suspicious. It should have been suspicious for the Nigerians considering it was only six inches long.

[NIKV69]

I think the biggest issue to come out of this is that yet again, one agency is not sharing info with another.

Or how about one agency totally dropping the ball here. No matter who spoke to who this person should not have been able to get past screening where the flight originated. This new policy of remaining in your seat prior to landing is the biggest joke. No matter how you slice it to be totally safe we would have to do what EL AL does. Which includes getting to the airport much earlier than we do now so every passenger gets screened more agressively. Not being able to buy a ticket last minute and basically having your background totally checked thoroughly when you buy a ticket. Otherwise we are kidding outselves.

[hiss srq]

It makes sense to use a Nigerian to smuggle explosives in this underwear. Could you see an Irish man try that? It would look very suspicious. It should have been suspicious for the Nigerians considering it was only six inches long.
LMAO

[Gerard]

There is no way EVER that I will get in the nude o scope machine. ...

Dude I dont think ANYONE wants to see that!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

[coachrowsey]

There is no way EVER that I will get in the nude o scope machine. They can go strait to ....

The nude-o-scope only shows a ghost image now. The photos that you may have seen were when it was originally released for review and it was dialed down a little then. I have been to our tech center where they can dial it up. Everyone looks at each other straight in the eyes there.

And I'll use the joke we have: "Don't worry, it aint no big thing" :shock:

You may want to re look at your own web site on what the TSA sees. Like I said they can pound sand(I'll play nice) before I go through one.

[T-Bird76]

There is no way EVER that I will get in the nude o scope machine. They can go strait to ....

The nude-o-scope only shows a ghost image now. The photos that you may have seen were when it was originally released for review and it was dialed down a little then. I have been to our tech center where they can dial it up. Everyone looks at each other straight in the eyes there.

And I'll use the joke we have: "Don't worry, it aint no big thing" :shock:

You may want to re look at your own web site on what the TSA sees. Like I said they can pound sand(I'll play nice) before I go through one.

What's the big deal if some screener see's your junk? I guess some of us aren't as blessed as others ;) LOL Seriously though I could careless about the nude-o-scope, I've been through that..the puffer..and some other machine in MCO.

[emshighway]

There is no way EVER that I will get in the nude o scope machine. They can go strait to ....

The nude-o-scope only shows a ghost image now. The photos that you may have seen were when it was originally released for review and it was dialed down a little then. I have been to our tech center where they can dial it up. Everyone looks at each other straight in the eyes there.

And I'll use the joke we have: "Don't worry, it aint no big thing" :shock:

You may want to re look at your own web site on what the TSA sees. Like I said they can pound sand(I'll play nice) before I go through one.

That is dialed down.

http://www.tsa.gov/graphics/images/approach/mmw_small.jpg

http://www.tsa.gov/graphics/images/approach/backscatter_small.jpg

[coachrowsey]

I'm sorry I disagree but what ever. It will NOT happen.

[emshighway]

I'm sorry I disagree but what ever. It will NOT happen.

Are you talking about the Whole Body Imagers? Already happening and this incident will only speed up the deployment.

They are currently in:
Albuquerque International Sunport Airport
Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport
Baltimore/Washington International Thurgood Marshall Airport
Denver International Airport
Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport
Detroit Metro Airport
Indianapolis International Airport
Jacksonville International Airport
McCarran International Airport
Los Angeles International Airport
Miami International Airport
Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport
Raleigh-Durham International Airport
Richmond International Airport
Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport
San Francisco International Airport
Salt Lake City International Airport
Tampa International Airport
Tulsa International Airport

[coachrowsey]

Again not to argue but they can take a flying leap before I go in one of them.

[emshighway]

Again not to argue but they can take a flying leap before I go in one of them.

You may not have a choice if you want to fly. They may become part of all lanes and will be similar to the walkthrough metal detector.

[emshighway]

Uninvestigated terrorism warning about Detroit suspect called not unusual
By Karen DeYoung and Michael Leahy — Monday, December 28th, 2009 ‘The Washington Post’ / Washington, DC


When Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab's father in Nigeria reported concern over his son's "radicalization" to the U.S. Embassy there last month, intelligence officials in the United States deemed the information insufficient to pursue. The young man's name was added to the half-million entries in a computer database in McLean and largely forgotten.

The lack of attention was not unusual, according to U.S. intelligence officials, who said that thousands of similar bits of information flow into the National Counterterrorism Center each week from around the world. Only those that indicate a specific threat, or add to an existing body of knowledge about an individual, are passed along for further investigation and possible posting on airline and border watch lists.

"It's got to be something that causes the information to sort of rise out of the noise level, because there is just so much out there," one intelligence official said.

The report entered on Abdulmutallab, 23, after his father's Nov. 19 visit to the embassy was "very, very thin, with minimal information," said a second U.S. official familiar with its contents.

Abdulmutallab's alleged attempt to blow up a Detroit-bound commercial airliner on Christmas Day has put the information in a new light, however. It has unleashed sharp criticism of the watch-list procedures and the explosive-detection systems that apparently allowed him to board Northwest Airlines Flight 253 with materials for a bomb.

On Sunday, the air travel system responded to another alert when a second Nigerian man locked himself in the bathroom on the same Northwest Airlines flight into Detroit. Officials said he was belligerent but genuinely sick and not a threat, according to the Associated Press.

Republican leaders placed responsibility for what they called lapses in preparedness squarely on the Obama administration Sunday, and questioned whether the president appreciates terrorist threats. "I think there's much to investigate here," Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) said on ABC's "This Week."

Senate Homeland Security Committee Chairman Joseph I. Lieberman (I-Conn.) joined GOP critics in asking how the suspect was able to retain a U.S. visa -- issued by the U.S. Embassy in London in 2008 -- after his name appeared in the terrorist database.

"What happened after this man's father called our embassy in Nigeria?" Lieberman asked. "What happened to that information? Was there follow-up to try to determine where this suspect was?"

White House officials struggled to explain the complicated system of centralized terrorist data and watch lists, stressing that they were put in place years ago by the Bush administration. Spokesman Robert Gibbs said President Obama has ordered reviews of the watch-list system and the airport explosives screening.

"The president is very confident that this government is taking the steps that are necessary to take -- to take our fight to those that seek to do us harm," Gibbs said, emphasizing stepped-up military activity against al-Qaeda in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Yemen and Somalia.

Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano told CNN's "State of the Union" that Abdulmutallab's assertions of al-Qaeda contacts and training in Yemen were being investigated, but that "right now, we have no indication" his actions were "part of anything larger."

A Justice Department official said Abdulmutallab was released Sunday from a Michigan hospital where he was treated for burns suffered in the failed bombing. He was in a federal prison in Milan, Mich., according to the Associated Press. He is scheduled to appear in federal court in Michigan on Jan. 8.

The youngest of 16 children of a prominent Nigerian bank executive, and the son of the second of his father's two wives, Abdulmutallab was raised at the family home in Kaduna, a city

in Nigeria's Muslim-dominated north, relatives there said. He graduated with an engineering degree from City University in London. Later, his father sent him to Dubai to study for an advanced business degree.

In July, relatives said, his father agreed to his request to study Arabic in Yemen. The family became concerned in August when Abdulmutallab called to say he had dropped the course but would remain in Yemen for an undisclosed purpose. Several days later, they said, he sent a text message saying he was severing all ties with his family.

Relatives said that message provoked his father's visits to the U.S. Embassy in Abuja and to the Nigerian intelligence service. U.S. intelligence officials insisted Sunday that the visit did not occur until mid-November.

Abdulmutallab's movements after that are unclear, although a Nigerian official said Sunday that he "sneaked" into the country on the 24th. He paid cash for a ticket on a Dec. 24 KLM flight from Lagos to Amsterdam, connecting to Northwest 253 to Detroit on Christmas Day.

"The e-ticket was purchased from KLM airport office in Accra [Ghana] on 16th December 2009," Harold Demuren, a Nigerian aviation official, told a news conference in Lagos. "His passport was scanned, his U.S. visa was scanned, and the APIS [Advanced Passenger Information System] returned with no objection."

Abdulmutallab's name would have bounced back if he appeared on the U.S. "no-fly" or "selectee" watch lists. Although the size of the government's overall terrorist database has expanded since such information began to be systematically collected in 2003, the number of people prohibited from boarding a domestic or U.S.-bound aircraft, or subject to special scrutiny and notification of U.S. law enforcement, has shrunk, from an estimated 30,000 in early 2007 to 18,000 today.

Widespread complaints in the past tended to focus on lists seen as too long, rather than too short. Many came from members of Congress who objected to constituents and spouses being delayed or prevented from boarding flights because information about them or someone with a similar name had been listed.

The White House review will examine protocols for watch-listing individuals, currently based on a "reasonable suspicion" standard, according to the intelligence official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue.

"Do we as a country believe that the bar is too high in light of this one individual who didn't reach it? Do we want to lower the bar? If we do, what are the implications? We are going to have a lot more people on the list."

The existing system was established by the Intelligence Reform Act of 2004. It was designed to close gaps in intelligence-sharing that allowed a number of the Sept. 11, 2001, hijackers to enter the United States, although the CIA had identified them overseas as terrorism suspects.

The reforms set up the National Counterterrorism Center, which administers a huge database of terrorism information called the Terrorist Identities Datamart Environment, or TIDE.

Each day, thousands of pieces of intelligence information from around the world -- field assessments, captured documents, news from foreign allies and the media, and reports from worried fathers -- pour into the NCTC computers in McLean. At 11 each night, selected information from TIDE is downloaded into the Terrorist Screening Database, or TSDB, administered by the FBI. Overnight entries are examined each morning by an interagency team drawn from across the government.

Under FBI direction, individuals assessed as significant risks are then "nominated" to specific watch lists, each of which has different criteria. In addition to the "no-fly" and "selectee" lists, the State Department maintains a list of people who should not be granted visas; other lists single out people who cross land borders and domestic fugitives.

In Abdulmutallab's case, a single, non-specific entry in TIDE was not enough to send his information to the TSDB, so he was never considered for a watch list. Among the gaps in the system already being addressed by computer technicians, officials said, is the absence of an "automatic feedback loop" that would have let TIDE know that the random report from Nigeria referred to a man who already had a valid U.S. entry visa, issued more than a year before.

Staff writers Carrie Johnson and Joby Warrick in Washington and Anne E. Kornblut in Kailua, Hawaii, and special correspondent Aminu Abubakar in Kano, Nigeria, contributed to this report.

[emshighway]

And the finger pointing continues:

GOP Voted Against Funding TSA Measures Like Explosives Detection Systems
December 28th, 2009, 2:32 PM UTC
While Republicans are busy blaming President Obama for the Christmas day terror event on Flight 253, they’re ignoring their own unwillingness to vote against funding for the Transportation Safety Administration and South Carolina Jim DeMint’s hold on appointing a TSA chief out of fear of unionization.

Republicans have cast votes against the key TSA funding measure that the 2010 appropriations bill for the Department of Homeland Security contained, which included funding for the TSA, including for explosives detection systems and other aviation security measures. In the June 24 vote in the House, leading Republicans including John Boehner, Pete Hoekstra, Mike Pence and Paul Ryan voted against the bill, amid a procedural dispute over the appropriations process, a Democrat points out. A full 108 Republicans voted against the conference version, including Boehner, Hoekstra, Pence, Michelle Bachmann, Marsha Blackburn, Darrell Issa and Joe Wilson.

The conference bill included more than $4 billion for “screening operations,” including $1.1 billion in funding for explosives detection systems, with $778 million for buying and installing the systems.

DeMint responds that “Democrats have only themselves to blame” for there not being a TSA administrator, but there is so far no explanation for the unwillingness to fund needed measures to secure our safety.

[Gerard]

[quote="emshighway"]And the finger pointing continues:

God is there anything these idiot politicians can agree on? This blame game crap from both sides
is really really annoying.
And while they argue the terrorists laugh at us and think of new ways to blow us up.

[PhilDernerJr]

I understand and respect your views on rights to privacy, but I ask what you recommend be done to prevent the terror threat then?

[T-Bird76]

Again not to argue but they can take a flying leap before I go in one of them.

You may not have a choice if you want to fly. They may become part of all lanes and will be similar to the walkthrough metal detector.

Sir, when that happens I've taken my last plane ride. Your un American agency has already cost the airlines thousands of dollars due to customers who refuse to fly unless they have no choice. Not that it's a big deal but a couple months I drove to Mo & back rather than deal with TSA harASSment & I will continue to drive unless I have no choice.

Mate I think your going a bit overboard here. I fly over 100K a year and the TSA isn't all that bad. Yes a few years ago they sucked...no other words to describe their performance then suck. However in the past two years I'd say there is a marked improvement in their professionalism, customer service and procedures. Even when the TSA IMO wasn't up to snuff I never once got harassed by them.

Most of the agravation at the security line is from passengers who don't follow simple rules like "please remove all metal objects," "please take your laptop out," etc etc.

[coachrowsey]

I understand and respect your views on rights to privacy, but I ask what you recommend be done to prevent the terror threat then?

Phil:
First off people should avoid the WBI's at all cost & write their reps & let them know that K-9's are the way to go. I don't claim to be an expert but I do have some experience with K-9's myself as well as I talk to our local K-9 guys.
ETP & ETD. These are starters. I'm not against anything that makes since. I'm against the stupid knee jerk reactions.

With this said, I'll not post anything else here as I respect you & your site to much & do not wish to get in to trouble.

Edit to add puffers. Most likely this idiot would've been caught.

[PhilDernerJr]

You can share your thoughts as long as they aren't profane and hateful. I am not a huge fan of the xray machines but I can't really think of any alternatives.

Honest question...would dogs or puffers have caught this underwear bomb?

[T-Bird76]

You can share your thoughts as long as they aren't profane and hateful. I am not a huge fan of the xray machines but I can't really think of any alternatives.

Honest question...would dogs or puffers have caught this underwear bomb?

Puffers would not have, at least the current GE models that are out there. They're initial designs were to find money and drugs..not explosives. GE updated the software but to many false positives didn't allow them to be rolled out nationwide.

[coachrowsey]

You can share your thoughts as long as they aren't profane and hateful. I am not a huge fan of the xray machines but I can't really think of any alternatives.

Honest question...would dogs or puffers have caught this underwear bomb?

Phil:
IMO Yes.

[Tom_Turner]

If the TSA profiled the ACLU sues, they sue over the WBIs.

Well, perhaps its time to cross that bridge already... ?

Tom

[emshighway]

If the TSA profiled the ACLU sues, they sue over the WBIs.

Well, perhaps its time to cross that bridge already... ?

Tom

There is a smaller WBI which was planned to start being deployed even before this incident. 150 initially but I would expect much, much more.

[Tom_Turner]

If the TSA profiled the ACLU sues, they sue over the WBIs.

Well, perhaps its time to cross that bridge already... ?

Tom

There is a smaller WBI which was planned to start being deployed even before this incident. 150 initially but I would expect much, much more.

By all means, turn up the dial I suppose.

But I was actually referring to the profiling though....

Tom

[Gerard]

Everyone screaming about the TSA but in this incident the problem started in Nigeria then Amsterdam which is not controlled by out TSA/DHS. Correct?
And I dont usually fly a lot but since my youngest son has been in UA at Tucson I've been out there 5 times
since June 08 and one trip to L.A. and I've never had one problem with TSA who always been courteous and professional.
Of course now that I've seen "Up In The Air" I will always follow Asians!! :)

[Gerard]

And nice column today by Michael Daly advocating who should be running DHS.....

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... urity.html (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2009/12/29/2009-12-29_put_real_cops_in_charge_of_security.html)

[emshighway]

By all means, turn up the dial I suppose.

But I was actually referring to the profiling though....

Tom

But then the politics jump in. Some day hopefully I can tell you what happen the night before the liquid ban started...

[emshighway]

Everyone screaming about the TSA but in this incident the problem started in Nigeria then Amsterdam which is not controlled by out TSA/DHS. Correct?
And I dont usually fly a lot but since my youngest son has been in UA at Tucson I've been out there 5 times
since June 08 and one trip to L.A. and I've never had one problem with TSA who always been courteous and professional.
Of course now that I've seen "Up In The Air" I will always follow Asians!! :)

LOL, everytime I see the commercial for "Up In The Air" I laugh because it is so true.

[emshighway]

And nice column today by Michael Daly advocating who should be running DHS.....

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... urity.html (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2009/12/29/2009-12-29_put_real_cops_in_charge_of_security.html)

Kelly and Bratton's ego's are too big. Timoney would be good.

[emshighway]

CIA wants all the toys in the sandbox as usual.

(CNN) -- The father of terrorism suspect Umar Farouk AbdulMutallab talked about his son's extremist views with someone from the CIA and a report was prepared, but the report was not circulated outside the agency, a reliable source told CNN's Jeanne Meserve on Tuesday.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/12/29/air ... index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/12/29/airline.terror.cia/index.html)

[Gerard]

Everyone screaming about the TSA but in this incident the problem started in Nigeria then Amsterdam which is not controlled by out TSA/DHS. Correct?
And I dont usually fly a lot but since my youngest son has been in UA at Tucson I've been out there 5 times
since June 08 and one trip to L.A. and I've never had one problem with TSA who always been courteous and professional.
Of course now that I've seen "Up In The Air" I will always follow Asians!! :)

LOL, everytime I see the commercial for "Up In The Air" I laugh because it is so true.

Absolutely. Once I was on line and there was this elderly woman with more jewelry than Mr. T and I told my wife, watch
she's getting the extra special TSA treatment. And she did. :lol:

[emshighway]

Much of the technology even currently used was originally used for other reasons mostly medical. The ETDs are originally mass spectrometers for labs (a nice clean lab). X-Rays and CTX are the obvious.

The ETP is an ETD with an air generator to stir up microscopic materials, thus the puffer nickname. The ETP wasn't stopped because of false positives. The problem that happen with the ETPs were the read times, particularly the GE model. The spec was a few second read. They were tested in the FAA tech center in Atlantic City and appeared to work fine. When they were deployed, the read times increased up to as much as 30 seconds and the maintenance from a dusty airport is very expensive. Can you imagine the lines if it took 30 seconds for each person to go through? GE actually bought the Smith Detection Division who produces their ETP. Hopefully they are working on a model that will actually work in an airport environment. There was still the need for a metal detector. Many of us suggested a combo model, one of the problems is the air generator disrupts the electromagnetic field. The ETDs/ETPs work very well and actually there aren't false positives. The ETP does a chemical analysis, there are many common products (hand creams, fertilizer, medication and even foods) that use nitrates and other items that will alarm. The ETD is alarming properly.

As far as dogs working instead of ETDs, ETPs, WBIs or other machines please think about it. You would need one per lane with a handler for 24 hours. Dogs only work around 20 minutes at a time otherwise they get burnt out quickly. Just think of the incredible amount of dogs and handlers needed and the great expense that would be? Much, much more then a machine. Dogs are not 100% reliable, with the distractions of an airport there would be many problems.

At this time the WBI are the best technology we have. Companies take a long time to research and produce newer technologies and the TSA certification process has gotten harder. They don't want another puffer scenario where they try to get the technology out before it is really beaten up to prove it's worth.

If the TSA profiled the ACLU sues, they sue over the WBIs.

Trust me there is no one sitting around ringing their hands coming up with ways to make it harder for passengers. I spend most of my time working on ways to make it easier and faster on passengers. There is a delicate balance going on, no matter what the TSA does some one will complain.

I was down at the World Trade Center on 9/11 and many times after. I saw the aftermath first hand, walked through the body parts, went to the funerals of friends and co-workers and fight now for those responders who are sick now because they went down their to help. I will do what I have to do so something like this never happens again.

[Gerard]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2009/12 ... iled_.html (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2009/12/30/2009-12-30_netherlands_to_use_more_fullbody_scanne_for_usb ound_air_passengers_after_foiled_.html)

[T-Bird76]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2009/12/30/2009-12-30_netherlands_to_use_more_fullbody_scanne_for_usb ound_air_passengers_after_foiled_.html

Yep now extremists will simply use the dozen plus other gateways cities that serve the U.S without a full body scanner. We need to stop reacting and start being proactive.

[USAF Pilot 07]

Great Interview with El Al's ex-head security guy on the subject matter...

He is strongly opposed to the fullbody scanners btw...

http://www.foxnews.com/search-results/m ... tm#q=el+al (http://www.foxnews.com/search-results/m/28132141/security-advice.htm#q=el+al)

[T-Bird76]

Great Interview with El Al's ex-head security guy on the subject matter...

He is strongly opposed to the fullbody scanners btw...

http://www.foxnews.com/search-results/m ... tm#q=el+al (http://www.foxnews.com/search-results/m/28132141/security-advice.htm#q=el+al)

He's 110% right with his reasoning and opinions, especially about the fear we are creating in this country. You can't defeat an evil if we are affraid of it.

[NIKV69]

He's 110% right with his reasoning and opinions, especially about the fear we are creating in this country. You can't defeat an evil if we are affraid of it.



Of course we are afraid of it, we should be. Also what are we going to do? Adopt EL Als security practices? Though I love them they are logistically impossible to implement for our airlines and amound of pax we want to move. If you want to be safe these scanners are a huge first step. If you don't want them short of having every passenger undress and or get a real pat down we will always have a risk of this attack we saw on Xmas. We have the tools at our disposal. It's about time we used them and stopped listening to the ACLU.