Passengers Kept on Plane for Hours

[Midnight Mike]

August 11, 2009

MINNEAPOLIS -- By its sixth hour of sitting on a deserted tarmac in Rochester, Minn., Continental Express Flight 2816 had taken on the smell of dirty diapers and an overwhelmed toilet.

What should have been a 2 1/2 -hour trip from Houston to Minneapolis had moved into its ninth hour, and the 47 passengers on the plane had burned through the pretzels and drinks on board.

And the terminal, where passengers could at least stretch their legs, breathe fresh air and use the vending machines, was a mere 50 yards away.

But it wasn't until 6 a.m. Saturday -- six hours after landing -- that Flight 2816's passengers were allowed off the plane.

At 6 a.m., ExpressJet let the passengers off the plane. It took 2 1/2 hours for the passengers to re-board the plane -- still with a full toilet -- to head to Minneapolis. They landed at 9:15 a.m., nearly 12 hours after leaving Houston.

Kristy Nicholas, a spokeswoman for ExpressJet, said passengers couldn't go to the terminal to wait because they would have needed to redo their security screening and screeners had gone home.

The airport manager, Steven Leqve, said that wasn't true. He said passengers could have waited in a secure area. "This is not an airport issue. This is an airline issue," he said.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02956.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/10/AR2009081002956.html)

[T-Bird76]

Whoever the P.R rep is for CO and Expressjet better be looking for a new job soon. CO quickly said its an Expressjet problem and Expressjet threw the ball in the court of the airport. I don't care if I'm flying on a contract carrier if I bought the ticket from CO, the plane says CO on the side of it...CO better damn well stand behind me.

There's no excuse for this at all! This action put these people into an unsafe, unhealthy situation. What if you had a diabetic on the plane who needed to eat in order to avoid diabetic shock? They could have killed someone. Of course if someone decided to open the exit they would have been arrested....the consumer really has no rights anymore..very sad.

[PhilDernerJr]

I have to agree....you can't leave them stranded like that. I've seen my airline go into some very unique airports, and rarely is there a place for pax to not get to walk around at least if there is no security screening. There is ALWAYS some kind of option, and airports are built to accommodate people in all sorts of circumstances.

There's only one airport I recall that took issue with letting passengers off the plane, but I won't share that here, as it angers me greatly.

[mmedford]

You know what, in all honesty the crew did everything by the book...

I still say their mistake was to admit they timed out...should have continued with a short hop and faced the consequences after...

[PhilDernerJr]

"By the book" doesn't mean they did nothing wrong. There is the fine line of humanity.

[mmedford]

In an industry built on standization and rules, they followed them. Let the company take the hit, they better not blame the crew over this...

[PhilDernerJr]

From my perspective, it is a situation where mutliple people in multiple places could have put a stop to the flight. Regulations or not, it would be VERY easy for the Captain to call the flight dead and end it right there. System Operations could have made the call, or a dispatcher.

ANY time people are left on a stationary aircraft for a period of time, a decision needs to be made to deplane well before the 6-hour mark.

[T-Bird76]

In an industry built on standization and rules, they followed them. Let the company take the hit, they better not blame the crew over this...

1. The Airline is at fault.
2. The Crew is at fault
3. The Airport where they were stuck is at fault.

The Capt is in charge of that plane and has the authority over that plane once that door is closed. He very well should have deplaned the passengers. He's as equally to blame as the airline and airport.

[NIKV69]

I agree with Tommy but I do believe the airport could have done more as well. If I am the airport director I get my ass out of bed and get those people off the plane. Open the terminal myself and let them use a decent bathroom for Christ sake and stay there all night with them or get on the phone and rip CO a new ass till they send the buses for them to get them to lodging. Total disgrace.

[Matt Molnar]

It's odd to me that the passengers always just sit there and take this nonsense. There'd come a point I think that I would get off the plane and risk the consequences, especially an RJ that's easy to jump off of.

[mmedford]

Well; in this case rules took priority over humanity...

The Aircraft sat on the ground awaiting the weather to pass; normal diversion. The Airport lacked over-night TSA Screeners, so if the aircraft was brought into a gate & could get airborne ASAP. The flight couldn't, because it's PAX were to be left on the ground because they would need to be re-screened. (Not my rules; blame Department of Homeland Security).

The Crew timed out; and a relief crew had to be driven in (Its a 2 hour drive to/from Minneapolis). Also need to find that relief crew and have them assembled at 5 or 6am, then drive them out to the airport which would put their arrival at a normal business hour to allow them to get ground servicing. BUT with many airlines in these swap cases; the new FA must be on the plane before the timed out FA can leave.

Now you have to wonder if CO had any operations, equipment/crew at this location. Probably don't, so who would do the ground handling especially at 3 or 4AM. I was informed that these ERJs don't have air-stairs either, so how are the PAX going to magically get on and off this plane?

It's honestly a 2 hour drive, probably a 20 minute flight. Also remember it is Minnesota in the middle of the night, the place is probably dead.

Too many events happened all at once, at the wrong time of night. Sure if this happened 2pm, during the day there wouldn't be an issue. CO could have contacted the local airport prior to the aircraft's arrival. Paid for servicing, the PAX would have been able to be rescreened by TSA and the new crew would have taken the PAX home & we would have all been merry.

Just give the affected pax a free tix on CO Mainline, and get over it...

[Midnight Mike]

It's odd to me that the passengers always just sit there and take this nonsense. There'd come a point I think that I would get off the plane and risk the consequences, especially an RJ that's easy to jump off of.

It is a Federal Offense to interfere with the Flight Crew, so, if the passengers go rambo, they could end up in jail.

[Midnight Mike]

Well; in this case rules took priority over humanity...

The Aircraft sat on the ground awaiting the weather to pass; normal diversion. The Airport lacked over-night TSA Screeners, so if the aircraft was brought into a gate & could get airborne ASAP. The flight couldn't, because it's PAX were to be left on the ground because they would need to be re-screened. (Not my rules; blame Department of Homeland Security).

The Crew timed out; and a relief crew had to be driven in (Its a 2 hour drive to/from Minneapolis). Also need to find that relief crew and have them assembled at 5 or 6am, then drive them out to the airport which would put their arrival at a normal business hour to allow them to get ground servicing. BUT with many airlines in these swap cases; the new FA must be on the plane before the timed out FA can leave.

Now you have to wonder if CO had any operations, equipment/crew at this location. Probably don't, so who would do the ground handling especially at 3 or 4AM. I was informed that these ERJs don't have air-stairs either, so how are the PAX going to magically get on and off this plane?

It's honestly a 2 hour drive, probably a 20 minute flight. Also remember it is Minnesota in the middle of the night, the place is probably dead.

Too many events happened all at once, at the wrong time of night. Sure if this happened 2pm, during the day there wouldn't be an issue. CO could have contacted the local airport prior to the aircraft's arrival. Paid for servicing, the PAX would have been able to be rescreened by TSA and the new crew would have taken the PAX home & we would have all been merry.

Just give the affected pax a free tix on CO Mainline, and get over it...


Kristy Nicholas, a spokeswoman for ExpressJet, said passengers couldn't go to the terminal to wait because they would have needed to redo their security screening and screeners had gone home.

The airport manager, Steven Leqve, said that wasn't true. He said passengers could have waited in a secure area. "This is not an airport issue. This is an airline issue," he said.

[mmedford]

Kristy Nicholas, a spokeswoman for ExpressJet, said passengers couldn't go to the terminal to wait because they would have needed to redo their security screening and screeners had gone home.

The airport manager, Steven Leqve, said that wasn't true. He said passengers could have waited in a secure area. "This is not an airport issue. This is an airline issue," he said.[/quote]

1). Lack of ramp crew.
2). Very easy to say that a day later, no longer in a useful time frame.

[mmedford]

If the act of god, didn't divert the flight...none of this would have happened..

I'm all for PAX rights against the "man"... but this is clearly a special case and needs to be handled accordingly...

Maybe the crew should have attempted to keep going around & around, until he airport was able to accept them...and in turn risk the lives of all onboard. Because if the aircraft is still airborne PAX can't see the terminal from their windows...right?

[Midnight Mike]

If the act of god, didn't divert the flight...none of this would have happened..

I'm all for PAX rights against the "man"... but this is clearly a special case and needs to be handled accordingly...

Maybe the crew should have attempted to keep going around & around, until he airport was able to accept them...and in turn risk the lives of all onboard. Because if the aircraft is still airborne PAX can't see the terminal from their windows...right?

This has nothing to do with the aircraft diverting, this has to do with the passengers being kept on the aircraft for an unecessary amount of time.

Passengers are customers & you do not treat customers like that.

[PhilDernerJr]

It's odd to me that the passengers always just sit there and take this nonsense. There'd come a point I think that I would get off the plane and risk the consequences, especially an RJ that's easy to jump off of.

I would rather get irate on the plane than open a door. A door opens, then the emergency slide deploys, and the plane becomes grounded until it's replaced. Not to mention that you go out onto the tarmac, perhaps with engines running still (not safe at all), and even if not....where will you go? Doors to enter the terminal are usually locked by key-code. Then the legal consequences...blah blah blah.

I'd much rather yell at the F/A and demand to speak to the Captain. If they are unresponsive...call the news from my seat or something.


Well; in this case rules took priority over humanity...

Right. And they should not have.


The Aircraft sat on the ground awaiting the weather to pass; normal diversion. The Airport lacked over-night TSA Screeners, so if the aircraft was brought into a gate & could get airborne ASAP. The flight couldn't, because it's PAX were to be left on the ground because they would need to be re-screened. (Not my rules; blame Department of Homeland Security).

Having pax stranded in a terminal for extra hours instead of on an airplane for 6 hours with toilets full (smelly through the whole plane) and no food or drink is a serious hazard. That's NOT an inconvenience, but a hazard. You seem to downplay this, but I wonder what you would do in the same situation.


Now you have to wonder if CO had any operations, equipment/crew at this location. Probably don't, so who would do the ground handling especially at 3 or 4AM. I was informed that these ERJs don't have air-stairs either, so how are the PAX going to magically get on and off this plane?

...the place is probably dead.

RSN has an FBO that is 24 hours, albeit lightly staffed at night (I just got off the phone with them actually). There are also about 4 airlines that operate there as well. That means SOMEONE is there. As I siad, there are ALWAYS other options.

When something like that is happening, their system operations should be calling to wake people up, wave money at them and prepare for the aircraft getting stuck, well before they have sat on the plane for hours. The second and aircraft is diverting, you make sure the tower will accept the aircraft, then you call for ground handling.


Just give the affected pax a free tix on CO Mainline, and get over it...

You don't just wave tickets at the pax either. I'm shocked that you think this situation is acceptable, and that a free flight is the solution.

[mmedford]

This has nothing to do with the aircraft diverting, this has to do with the passengers being kept on the aircraft for an unecessary amount of time.

You can't have the effect, without the cause...


Passengers are customers & you do not treat customers like that.

Hmm, maybe thats why I can't work in retail anymore, i lack the people skills...


Having pax stranded in a terminal for extra hours instead of on an airplane for 6 hours with toilets full (smelly through the whole plane) and no food or drink is a serious hazard. That's NOT an inconvenience, but a hazard. You seem to downplay this, but I wonder what you would do in the same situation.

Again, it is a very rare situation...almost wondered if they had the convinence of diverting to a CO hub where they could have been handled.


RSN has an FBO that is 24 hours, albeit lightly staffed at night (I just got off the phone with them actually). There are also about 4 airlines that operate there as well. That means SOMEONE is there. As I siad, there are ALWAYS other options.

When something like that is happening, their system operations should be calling to wake people up, wave money at them and prepare for the aircraft getting stuck, well before they have sat on the plane for hours. The second and aircraft is diverting, you make sure the tower will accept the aircraft, then you call for ground handling.

How Lightly staffed? Could they even have handled the flight? Was there enough personnel and equipment able to recieve the aircraft?

It's weather, you can't prevent weather related situations, for all the crew knew they could be airborne in an hour. Now if the aircraft went Tech, sure...i'll give you that.


You don't just wave tickets at the pax either. I'm shocked that you think this situation is acceptable, and that a free flight is the solution.


You'd probably be suprised how little it would take to bribe those PAX prior to this hitting the media...especially with a NDA. I think the situation was handled accordingly, sure we can sit here and debate back & forth about all the things they did wrong. But lets not forget, "you" were not present during that "oh ****" moment.

This is probably why I don't fly very often, I know this industry all to well and understand the quirks of it. I have been in enough "oh ****" mission critical moments to be able to delegate the safety of human life as a priority, before overall well-being...

[moose135]

Just give the affected pax a free tix on CO Mainline, and get over it...
Great - treat me like crap, then to make it all better, offer me a free ticket to fly with you again! And don't wave the Express vs. Mainline thing - as a passenger, all I care is that CO treated me like crap.


I'd much rather yell at the F/A and demand to speak to the Captain. If they are unresponsive...call the news from my seat or something.
Unfortunately, that's when they call the PD claiming you are failing to comply with their instructions, and you end up tossed in jail facing federal charges for interfering with the crew. You're screwed no matter what you do.

[PhilDernerJr]

All it takes is ONE person as an FBO to open the door and let the passengers inside. That one person can tehn make a phone call and get food delivered, aircraft servicing, etc., with reasonable ease.

Keep in mind this was only an RJ. I myself have been in tougher situation and have worked to accommodate 240 soldiers in foreign countries.

[NIKV69]

The TSA excuse is crap. The gate area is secure and if they don't leave it they don't need to be screened. Where was fire and rescue? Your going to tell me this airfield was totally deserted? No matter how small the town or airport is this should have never happened. I find it hard to believe that someone couldn't have alerted an official with the airport and taken care of these pax and just not let them sit there. Total BS.

[T-Bird76]

mmedford your attempting to justify events that are simply unjustifiable. Passengers should never be held against their will as they were in this situation, its against the law and their will be a lawsuit.