JFK might be a real cluster this summer !

[LGA777]

Althought not mentioned in the below article I am hearing dates of June 1st thru the end of September for this project.

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/ ... se-delays/ (http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/02/19/runway-project-at-kennedy-to-cause-delays/)?

Good luck to the airline employees and crews at JFK, oh yeah and the passengers to.

LGA777

[Matt Molnar]

Wow, that's nuts.

[MarkLawrence]

Wow - that's a heck of a project!

[mirrodie]

Can't wait to see more of this
1373730

[AirtrafficController]

It looks like the 4s and 22s will be more in use then ever.

[Iberia A340-600]

I'm surprised this project is for 13R/31L rather then 13L/31R.

Looks like we won't have any banking shots this summer but I'm curious to see how often 13L will be used for departures, if ever?

[T-Bird76]

This isn't new news.....this has been on the books for over a year now. In regards to the project Port is being very proactive in how they are going about construction. The construction area itself is going to be totally fenced off effectively isolating the construction zone from the rest of the field. This will allow the work to be done without construction vehicles having to be escorted every time they come and go. This will dramatically speed up construction while keeping Port resources mainly free to manage the airport.

This won't have any dramatic effect on delays, JFK generally only uses two runways at a time plus the still can use 31R.

[PhilDernerJr]

How will this affect 4/22 ops at the intersection with 31L/13R?

[RussK19]

I have a question, if the 13R/31L is going to be completely closed...

Is there a rational chance for them to use 13L for landings as they often did during the past summers, or does it mean that 13L wont be used at all now???

[Iberia A340-600]

I have a question, if the 13R/31L is going to be completely closed...

Is there a rational chance for them to use 13L for landings as they often did during the past summers, or does it mean that 13L wont be used at all now???

I'm sure 13L will be used just as often as it has been used in the past during the summers. The question is whether or not 13L will be used for take offs which isn't a very common occurrence.

[Speedbird1]

During this construction next spring(2010), JFK will have to stop "enhanced departures" where 31L is used solely for departures whenever arrivals use 4R or 22L. With 31L being closed, this would be impossible. How will JFK operate when there is a strong NW or SE wind and they cannot use the 4's or 22's? All arrivals and departures will have to use Rwy 13L/31R. This would be a nightmare. If I were a JFK controller, I'd go on a leave of absence next spring. Of course, they're spoiled, LGA has no parallel pairs of runways, but again LGA doesn't have the traffic flow. Incidentally, the closure is not scheduled for this year but for next and it would be in the spring, March-June, and not during the summer rush.

[PhilDernerJr]

LGA doesn't have the traffic flow? I think it's the other way around compared to airport capacity.

[Speedbird1]

Of course LGA doesn't have the same traffic capacity as JFK. Where can I find last years' arrivals/departures statistics for both airports? It should be interesting. It must be posted somewhere.

[pgengler]

I found these:
JFK arrival capacity (http://www.fly.faa.gov/Information/east/zny/jfk/jfk_aar1.htm)
LGA arrival capacity (http://www.fly.faa.gov/Information/east/zny/lga/lga_aar.htm)

[Matt Molnar]

I found these:
JFK arrival capacity (http://www.fly.faa.gov/Information/east/zny/jfk/jfk_aar1.htm)
LGA arrival capacity (http://www.fly.faa.gov/Information/east/zny/lga/lga_aar.htm)
Excellent find.

[mirrodie]

so many letters and numbers. what do they mean?

[Matt Molnar]

VMC = visual meteorological conditions
IMC = instrument meteorological conditions

The numbers in each column represent the maximum number of arrivals per hour based on weather conditions and runways in use.

[JZ1]

Think about it, if 31L/13R is closed during a summer afternoon, and they use 22/4 for take off and landing, the new T5 parking garage will present a great spot for shooting the activities. Particularly if 4L is used for take off, all the European bound heavies will literally lift off in front of you.

[lijk604]

Think about it, if 31L/13R is closed during a summer afternoon, and they use 22/4 for take off and landing, the new T5 parking garage will present a great spot for shooting the activities. Particularly if 4L is used for take off, all the European bound heavies will literally lift off in front of you.

That could be a great thing...but a large group will definitely grab someone's attention and we will lose the spot. SHHHHHHH!!!

[Delta777LR]

Think about it, if 31L/13R is closed during a summer afternoon, and they use 22/4 for take off and landing, the new T5 parking garage will present a great spot for shooting the activities. Particularly if 4L is used for take off, all the European bound heavies will literally lift off in front of you.

That could be a great thing...but a large group will definitely grab someone's attention and we will lose the spot. SHHHHHHH!!!


Thats a good point, you dont want to track so much attention.. Remember, you're on the property of Port Authority.

[ManniGee]

Hi !

Why does JFK not the same like Frankfurt Airport ? They closed one RWy at night an renewed it piece by piece. Every night circa 8 to 10 metres. They needed months for the two 4000m rwys, but at six in the morning they were ables to use full capacity...

[Iberia A340-600]

Hi !

Why does JFK not the same like Frankfurt Airport ? They closed one RWy at night an renewed it piece by piece. Every night circa 8 to 10 metres. They needed months for the two 4000m rwys, but at six in the morning they were ables to use full capacity...

I don't believe a project like this could ever be completed in the US. Things are nowhere near as organized as they are in Europe when it comes to construction projects.

[T-Bird76]

Hi !

Why does JFK not the same like Frankfurt Airport ? They closed one RWy at night an renewed it piece by piece. Every night circa 8 to 10 metres. They needed months for the two 4000m rwys, but at six in the morning they were ables to use full capacity...

I don't believe a project like this could ever be completed in the US. Things are nowhere near as organized as they are in Europe when it comes to construction projects.

That's a very narrow minded and baseless statement... Last I checked you weren't an expert in construction??? The runway and taxiway move in LAX was done in record time as well at T8 and T5 at JFK. If you spent perhaps 5 mins with the people involved with the rebuild of 31L/13R you'd retract your silly statement.

[Iberia A340-600]

[quote=ManniGee]Hi !

Why does JFK not the same like Frankfurt Airport ? They closed one RWy at night an renewed it piece by piece. Every night circa 8 to 10 metres. They needed months for the two 4000m rwys, but at six in the morning they were ables to use full capacity...

I don't believe a project like this could ever be completed in the US. Things are nowhere near as organized as they are in Europe when it comes to construction projects.

That's a very narrow minded and baseless statement... Last I checked you weren't an expert in construction??? The runway and taxiway move in LAX was done in record time as well at T8 and T5 at JFK. If you spent perhaps 5 mins with the people involved with the rebuild of 31L/13R you'd retract your silly statement.[/quote:3r7x19eb]

I may not be an expert in construction however I have a father who is. Having lived in Spain and visited many other countries in Europe over the past few years witnessing massive construction projects and hearing from my father varying contrasts between the industries in the two continents I've developed the impression that construction projects tend to be more organized in Europe.

I apologize if I've offended you in my statement, or anyone else, but it was merely an observation I have come to make. As for T8 at JFK, I'm sure you'd no better then I, but was that not a rather delayed project?

[Speedbird1]

These charts are interesting. I can't figure exactly what VMC (3200/4) means. Does it show average total daily capacity when arriving on 22L and departing 22R/31L ?

[pgengler]

These charts are interesting. I can't figure exactly what VMC (3200/4) means. Does it show average total daily capacity when arriving on 22L and departing 22R/31L ?

I think that 3200/4 means 3200' ceilings (clouds) and 4 sm visibility (VMC is "Visual Meteorological Conditions"; IMC is "Instrument Meteorological Conditions", where you can't use a visual approach and have to use an instrument approach). For landing 22L, departing 22R/31L, it's 38 arrivals per hour in 'good' VMC, 34 in 'passable' VMC, 32 for most IMC and 30 for 'low' IMC (probably when you get into Cat II & III approaches).

[Speedbird1]

Actually, 13L/31R can be used for departures. Jet Blue often departs from this runway even now. Larger aircraft usually taxy down to Rwy 31L/31R, which would be closed. I even recall several Concorde departures off from Rwy 31R/13L when the 4's and 22's were closed. It was rare, but it was feasible.

[PhilDernerJr]

Speedbird, those departures were off of 13L, which is fine, but not 31R. Only prop planes depart from 31R, with rare exception due to noise abatement.

[T-Bird76]

I may not be an expert in construction however I have a father who is. Having lived in Spain and visited many other countries in Europe over the past few years witnessing massive construction projects and hearing from my father varying contrasts between the industries in the two continents I've developed the impression that construction projects tend to be more organized in Europe.

I apologize if I've offended you in my statement, or anyone else, but it was merely an observation I have come to make. As for T8 at JFK, I'm sure you'd no better then I, but was that not a rather delayed project?

T8 was not delayed because of incompetent construction workers or disorganization. The project was redesigned mid point because of the dramatic change in the industry, a rather smart move that would never have been made in Europe because of the unions. Oh btw…T5 was opened ahead of schedule and under budget…another very non European thing.

Port has come up with a very smart plan based on the job at task to rebuild 31L/13R. You've got the best in the biz running JFK. These guys do an amzing job given what they have to work with.

[jetblue187]

I think that it will be interesting to see once the project is complete. I would guess the runways will be more usuable by the A380. I mean..it would be more reliable for the A380s and any other widebody aircraft that needs the space.

[corellian21]

Here comes another train wreck, I can't wait. :oops:

[Planesntrains]

Think about it, if 31L/13R is closed during a summer afternoon, and they use 22/4 for take off and landing, the new T5 parking garage will present a great spot for shooting the activities. Particularly if 4L is used for take off, all the European bound heavies will literally lift off in front of you.

What would this do for the less controversial, usual public spots? Maybe The Mounds would be come a prime spot to lens or sit with some binoculars and a logbook?

[bluejuice]

Ok here is the latest on the closures at JFK this year and next year.
4L and 22R will be fully closed from 4/1/09 thru 4/30/09 and again from 9/16-09 thru 9/29/09
13R and 31 L Full closure from 03/01/10 to 06/30/09
4L and 31 L intersection from 9/16/10 to 9/29/10 reducing the rwy lengths.
31L departures 10,700' and arrivals 11,240' and 13 R departures 11.240' and arrivals 8,640'.

at least they are not planning to work from July to Sept... (I hope )