Not allowed to take a picture

[BoeingSAN]

I hope this is the right spot to ask this.

I am a pilot training at a small airport that sees a good number of jet traffic.

For about the past 14 months when I have been at the airport I will take pictures of what might be on the ramp. Never had a problem with that, until today.

After taking a picture of a jet on the ramp of one of the FBO’s I was approached by a lineman who told me I am not allowed to take pictures because of the “Aircraft Privacy Act” for aircraft on their ramp.

I just apologized and thanked him for informing me that I was not allowed to do such a thing.

I have never heard of anything, and I am unable to find anything about such a thing.

Aviation photography is not illegal, so what is the problem here? Is the FBO trying to be “safe” and looking out for security? Did I run into a lineman who wanted to feel powerful today? I have seen him many times in the past…

Thanks for any info/opinion/etc.

[cancidas]

since the line guy is such a know-it-all ask him to show you such act on paper.

[SmAlbany]

Well, I've never hear of such a thing as the Aircraft Privacy Act. Doesn't mean that it doesn't exist, but it really makes my BS alarm go off.

On the other hand, I imagine that the FBO owner has the right to allow or not allow pictures taken on his facility.

[moose135]

He is lying to you - or at least repeating a lie that was told to him. If you are on that FBO's property, the most they can do is ask you to move, and call the police if you refuse. If you are on public property, they can't stop you from taking photos of anything that is in view of the general public. I shoot at FRG (a small airport with a lot of jet traffic) and no one has ever stopped me from photographing the aircraft.

[BoeingSAN]

I definitely was not on the FBO’s property when taking the picture. I was crossing an inner taxiway at the time.

I upload these pictures to myaviation.net. Should I stop doing that? My overall goal in my flight training is a job in the airlines; if this FBO gets really upset about this, could it be a problem? I feel stupid asking such a thing, but after yesterday I wouldn’t doubt them doing crazy things…

[flyboy 28]

I upload these pictures to myaviation.net. Should I stop doing that?

By all means, do not. Those photos are property of you, and you can do whatever you please with them.

[Matt Molnar]

I definitely was not on the FBO’s property when taking the picture. I was crossing an inner taxiway at the time.

I upload these pictures to myaviation.net. Should I stop doing that? My overall goal in my flight training is a job in the airlines; if this FBO gets really upset about this, could it be a problem? I feel stupid asking such a thing, but after yesterday I wouldn’t doubt them doing crazy things…
There is no such law as the "Aircraft Privacy Act." Some FBOs discourage photography for the privacy of their customers, and it's possible this particular FBO has a rule against photography on their property. But if you were not on their property there's nothing they can do and I wouldn't worry about it. If anyone approaches you again, ask them to clarify what the rules are. Do not hesitate to continue posting your photos online.

[PhilDernerJr]

A quick Google: "No results found for "Aircraft Privacy Act".

Keep taking pics and keep uploading them.

[BoeingSAN]

Thanks everyone, I will see if I run into anymore problems…

I can understand a company wanting to block the flight tracking for their aircraft; but if they are so worried about people seeing their aircraft, pay for a hanger…

[Delta777LR]

Just keep it positive to yourself. We've all been hassled about taking pictures but we keep it on. And so can you. Theres nothing to worry about. Aviation photography is not illegal. you will be ok. :wink:

[Jetinder]

You have my deepest sympathy as I know what your going through.

This year while i was innocently taking photos of the Houses of parliament at sunset, 2 police officers suddenly stopped me and asked me "what was i doing"......

At the time i was in a "public place" taking photos of a "public building" which was the other side of the river Thames so i wasn't doing any thing bad or illegal (and there where other people around me who did the same thing), but the police still stopped and searched me (i guess because I am Indian).

After they checked me out they left me alone.......

In summer 2003 while I chased Concorde around the outside of Heathrow I was ALWAYS in a public place, I was ALWAYS on a public foot path taking pictures of a public plane (Concorde).

But some times it was an utter nightmare as some Heathrow Police officers where nasty pieces of work who took pleasure in stopping and searching me endless times, who took pleasure in harrasing me and watching me suffer for no valid reason.

And when they told me to move i moved as i didnt want PC Plod making life even worse for me ...........

Some Heathrow Security guards where also just as bad, where as others where ok.

Its the luck of the draw............

[BoeingSAN]

Get this, today I flew with the chief flight instructor.

They have a what I think is a stupid contest going on at the school, the best aerial picture of a whale will win some prize. That’s safe….fly low to the ocean, in a turn and take pictures of a whale…

The chief instructor made the comment about bringing a camera along. I said I always bring a camera to the airport, but added in that I guess you can no longer take pictures of aircraft.

He came back with “oh yeah, you can do that, its illegal.” And threw in there that “what if you are a terrorist?” Followed by “you need the owners permission to take a picture of the aircraft…”

If I was not flying with the guy I would have yelled out BS, but I do know when I need to keep my mouth shut.

What is up with these people? Drinking the sea water?

That terrorist remark really pissed me off too; some moron can walk up and down the flight line looking at every aircraft trying to open the door of every aircraft….we don’t care about him, but damn, your taking a picture, you might study it and find out where the ailerons are; or what kind of tires we use.

Just curious – standing on public property, or airport property (not the FBOs) and take pictures all day long….they come along and say stop. I don’t and keep on because I am not breaking the law – what can they do? Legally, what can be done? Nothing, right? What would the charges be??

[Delta777LR]

I remembered that time I was at Cross Bay Park back in 2003 and an NYPD van approached me with 3 officers in the van and asked me what I was doing, and I told the officer that I was photographing planes taking off and they asked for my ID and I gave him the ID and asked me what is the reason for taking pictures of planes, And I said that aviation is my hobby and I collect diecast models and photographing planes in action. And they did asked me if I was a terrorist and I of corse I said no, I figured that in a way because I looked arab and yes Im Puerto Rican.. They did asked to leave the park and I took off and went else where to take pictures. First of all, Cross Bay Park is a public place and I think it was very wrong that I was told to leave. I wasnt doing anything illegal. I shouldnt have been asked to leave a public place for nothing.. I know how you felt BoeingSAN.

[flyboy 28]

Just curious – standing on public property, or airport property (not the FBOs) and take pictures all day long….they come along and say stop. I don’t and keep on because I am not breaking the law – what can they do? Legally, what can be done? Nothing, right? What would the charges be??

If you didn't move, they'd probably get you for loitering or something.

[Jetinder]

Sounds like in the USA and UK those 9/11 terrorists have really made people paraniod and now we all get stopped and searched........

Its stupid.......

Taking photos of commercial planes and public places is an innocent hobby for us all, but those low life evil terrorists have made the world a nasty place for every one.

[Delta777LR]

Sounds like in the USA and UK those 9/11 terrorists have really made people paraniod and now we all get stopped and searched........

Its stupid.......

Taking photos of commercial planes and public places is an innocent hobby for us all, but those low life evil terrorists have made the world a nasty place for every one.

I totaly agree with that.. Its not fair to us all. I used to be able to spot past the check points at Terminals 2 & 3 with out a single problem. but the terrorists has changed our aviation hobby around. We are not allowed to spot on airport terminals or property anymore because of that.

[m.marra]

Just curious – standing on public property, or airport property (not the FBOs) and take pictures all day long….they come along and say stop. I don’t and keep on because I am not breaking the law – what can they do? Legally, what can be done? Nothing, right? What would the charges be??

I run into this problem quite often on my job and while taking pictures. From what I understand, if you’re asked to leave a particular place, it's always a good idea to leave and just move to another location. Don't argue with the cop(s), and do what they say. Once you start disobeying the police officer, they can arrest you. They do have the right to ask you to stop taking pictures or leave; however they are prohibited from taking your equipment to include your memory card/film. If you’re on private property, they can tell you to leave. If you’re on public property, such as a park, they can only ask you to stop taking pictures, unless you’re creating a nuisance to the public.

I work for the railroad and see many conductors who are convinced they can't be arrested because the railroad is private property and the officer would be trespassing. They don't realize that they can be arrested by merely arguing with the officer and not following his/her instructions. It's best to just comply. If you believe there is something wrong with being asked to leave the location or stop taking pictures, then it's best to take it up with the proper authority afterwards and describe what happened and then find out what the rules are for that particular location.

[PhilDernerJr]

I don't rhink it's that cut and dry when it comes to an arrest. Though an officer might be able to exercise authority and inconvenience you by slapping on the cuffs, I think they will be hard-pressed to do so just because one of us geeks wants to take photos. Arresting us, only for us to be ultimately released later with no charges, creates more of a headache for the officer than us.

Though I feel that way, I will always listen to an officer an opt to leave upon his request no matter where I am....when I was with others. If I am alone, I am much more willing to stand up for myself because I understand what I'm risking and am willing to take those risks...with no one around me that will be affected.

Howevrer, let me be CLEAR that there is a clear difference between voicing your disagreement with a police officer, and being disrespectful and asking for trouble.

[Jetinder]

Did you guys here about the British Plane spotters who got arrested and jailed in Greece 10 years ago.........

When the Police say go, don't argue just leave the area and say nothing bad to the Police.

[BoeingSAN]

Just for the record, I would never argue with the people at the FBO or if the police were involved. I am not foolish, just frustrated.

The lineman’s ego, or whatever it might have been has done exactly what either him or the FBO was looking to do. Since he talked to me I have taken two pictures (when in the past I would have taken a few dozen for the number of days I have been there) and really am not interested in taking anything that is parked close to the FBO’s ramp.

I did send an email to the County Airport Director asking exactly where I could take pictures, trying to please everyone I can. He forward the email onto someone else and I have yet to hear anything.

I guess on the positive side of things is I have had nothing but good luck at Lindbergh Field; even the one time a police officer stopped me to see what I was doing, very friendly.

[microlight]

I posted the following extract in Spotter Blotter in March

Just about to embark on a vacation to the US.

Not in the NYC area but in the southeast region.

It's normal practice for us Brits to enquire about photo restrictions at civil facilities prior to pitching up and going "hunting".

Why oh why are your bizjet FBO's so anti enthusiast , I've written to a good few now politely enquiring about public area viewing etc and the response has been so negative its close to paranoia.
I've been told in advance not to point my camera at certain aircraft parking ramps - arent these airports public places ??? in the UK it is perfectly okay to photograph anything from or whilst standing on public property such as a road or footpath without let or hindrance , is it not the same in the US ?

Sorry to say but having visited the US more than 8 times , as regards our hobby over a period of 17 years it is getting worse , it used to be the best destination for our hobby.

It's still our favourite vacation location , and as ALLIES with the same views - sometimes difficult to understand the change in attitude thats going against our hobby and any chance of carrying it out without getting hassle or non co-operation from airfield tenants.

Bet they wouldn't mind if I pitched up in an aeroplane !:(

I had more run ins with linemen whilst attempting tp photograph biz jets and aircraft from the respective perimeter fences , despite writing in advance to the FBO's and Airport Director of this particular busy FL GA Airport I got negative or no replies from the Authorities on site - a disgrace in PR terms.

Of course I could have been smart and flashed my UK Airside Security ID for my airport job to try and help the situation , but didn't want to abuse the priviledge. A simple request from a bona fide enthusiast should suffice to people in charge. I have no problem assisting aviation photographers if they ask me at our particular facility in the UK for assistance !

Unfortunately some of these FBO's and linemen are paranoid and their attitude could do with a "politeness and practicality" overhaul , and a full grasp of Civil Rights.

The best experience was when a lineman asked me not to take photo's of aircraft on the ramp , I explained that I only wanted to get an exec Dornier 328 , the idiot didn't even understand which aircraft I was talking about as he couldn't identify it when I told him ! Professional ? I'd be worried at that !!! :x

And since when has photography an Air Ambulance Helicopter been a crime , in the UK these machines are funded by the public and they allow folks to get as close as they want under control to have a good look , I got a "rollocking" for trying to photograph an EMS EC135 at the same FL GA Airport.

Absolutely absurd .........


Still visiting the US next April though - As a family We love the place !

[BoeingSAN]

Just thought I would give an update. I have been more aware of my surroundings the past month+ and since have not had any problems.

About two weeks ago I did see this same lineman who told me to not take pictures was taking one for two people in front of their plane before they departed...I just thought it was ironic for him to be taking it.

I also mentioned that I have never had problems at SAN; that is now no longer true. Last week I was questioned for a solid 15 minutes by the SDPD. It included everything from checking my ID and drivers license number, checking for warrants, running my plate numbers on my car, asking where I worked, how many hours a week, if I was part of any group, why my connection to aviation was, why I was there on a Monday morning, etc. A number of these were repeated. I know it is nothing like others have encountered, but seeing that the last four or five visits I have talked to some type of police I will give that spot a rest for a while.

[ch2tdriver]

quote "Why oh why are your bizjet FBO's so anti enthusiast , I've written to a good few now politely enquiring about public area viewing etc and the response has been so negative its close to paranoia.
I've been told in advance not to point my camera at certain aircraft parking ramps - arent these airports public places ??? in the UK it is perfectly okay to photograph anything from or whilst standing on public property such as a road or footpath without let or hindrance , is it not the same in the US ? "

Here's a little insight. Back when I was in the aviation biz as a Licensed Dispatcher, I attended a meeting of NECDA over at TEB. This was circa 1996. It was a typical trade group/operators meeting where local and national aviation issues concerning corporate flight ops were raised and discussed. At this particular meeting the issue was raised about "what to do with all these 'spotters'?" There were a few laughs and some derogatory things said such as "What kinda of loser wants to stand around and write down N#'s all day?" etc....

There were a couple of voices who asked "whats the big deal if that is their hobby so be it." But the most vocal were the FBO's and not the corporate flight departments per se. The FBO's seemed to have the biggest issue and were the most suspicious. They found it hard to believe that there were people who were actually interested in aircraft enough to log them and photograph them. To the FBO folks it was akin to taking photos of someone's car. Not a classic or muscle car, but just a run of the mill Honda, Toyota, Chevy. Why would anyone do that? Therefore they were of the suspicion that these 'spotters' were most likely there to record the coming and goings of their bigwig clients and invade their privacy. The photogs were actually there to try and snap a pic of Madonna, Michael Jackson or Bill Gates for that matter. The FBO operators felt it was their duty to protect the privacy of anyone using their facility. The corporate operators who already have security measures in place and knew the difference between spotters and paparazzi were quiet on the issue.

But the FBO people were saying "What can we do about these people?" That is the mindset I saw back then. 9/11 gave everyone the permission they need to clamp down with draconian security nowadays.

Pete