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stuart schechter
10-02-2008, 08:02 PM
Sorry, no drinking here.

And so it begins... thoughts?

T-Bird76
10-02-2008, 09:37 PM
Biden won...IMO. He was to the point, gave strong examples, and seemed to be more of a Statesman. I thought Palin was visibility nervous and didn't answer a number of questions. I think Obama gets the bump after this.

Midnight Mike
10-02-2008, 09:39 PM
Biden won...IMO. He was to the point, gave strong examples, and seemed to be more of a Statesman. I thought Palin was visibility nervous and didn't answer a number of questions. I think Obama gets the bump after this.

Goodness, the debate goes to Palin.

Palin went after Biden & at times, had Biden speechless :borat:

moose135
10-02-2008, 09:48 PM
Goodness, the debate goes to Palin.
Given that she didn't accidentally set her podium on fire, I guess you could say that. She clearly has gotten better at repeating the talking points they have given her, but beyond that, she doesn't impress me.

Matt Molnar
10-02-2008, 09:55 PM
I think Obama gets the bump after this.
By bump do you mean TERRORIST FIST BUMP? :borat:

I think Palin held her own, but she pulled the same stuff she does on her TV interviews, avoiding discussions she's not knowledgeable about and changing the topic back to what she knows, "ENERGY ENERGY ENERGY, MAVERICK MAVERICK MAVERICK, ENERGY." She did make one monumental mistake that'll be quoted in the history books for eons: "I've been at this, what, 5 weeks?"

I think she did a good job of connecting to "Joe Sixpack" as she likes to say, but I think Biden did a better job convincing us that he's a down to earth guy, talking about his upbringing and even choking up talking about his dad. And more importantly, he did it without talking like a complete like a ****ing redneck the way Palin does. He also knows the proper pronunciation of "nuclear" which goes a long way in my book...Palin says it the same backwards way as Bush, "NUKE YOU LUHR"

NIKV69
10-02-2008, 09:56 PM
This debate sucked! Both Biden and Palin basically repeated everything we already know about both Obama and McCain. Biden obviously has more experience speaking in front of a crowd in that format and it showed. No surprise Palin was nervous. Both parties strayed off questions and we got the same rhetoric we have been hearing for a year and a half. I think if anything Palin was a bit more composed and didn't make an ass out of herself so for the GOP that is a win. Not sure Obama gets a bump here but I still the think our current media renders any debate whether Presidential or VP useless. Thanks to blogs, CNN, FOX and MSNBC we know all this crap. I don't think the vote would be any differnt if we took it now or Nov 4th.

Iberia A340-600
10-02-2008, 09:56 PM
I'm not one to get too involved with politics but one thing I was extremely happy to see in this debate versus the presidential debate was the eye contact made by both candidates. In the presidential debate I did not see McCain look at Obama once or refer to him directly. In this debate Biden and Palin had direct eye contact and talked to one another directly using "you".

NIKV69
10-02-2008, 10:04 PM
he did it without talking like a complete like a **** redneck the way Palin does. He also knows the proper pronunciation of "nuclear" which goes a long way in my book...Palin says it the same backwards way as Bush, "NUKE YOU LUHR"


Matt have you ever been outside of Queens? Well I have driven and spent time in just about every state in this country and guess what? Some people talk differently than we do. They have different accents, pronounce things differentl etc. I doubt Palin tries to say things like a redneck nor can she help it. She wasn't raised in NY and for you to give credit to Biden because he pronounces something a certain way is not only telling but insulting to Palin and people from that part of the country. Bush comes from Texas, maybe you should jump a flight and go spend a few days there. You may be suprised to see they all talk like him. Doesn't make them any smarter or ignorant. If you are going to dislike someone I would hope you can find something a little more substantial than something that can't be helped like speech.

Matt Molnar
10-02-2008, 10:05 PM
Thanks to blogs, CNN, FOX and MSNBC we know all this crap. I don't think the vote would be any differnt if we took it now or Nov 4th.
Agreed. It's like watching a NASCAR race...the only reason to tune in is to see the crashes.

PhilDernerJr
10-02-2008, 10:07 PM
Matt have you ever been outside of Queens? Well I have driven and spent time in just about every state in this country and guess what? Some people talk differently than we do. They have different accents, pronounce things differentl etc. I doubt Palin tries to say things like a redneck nor can she help it. She wasn't raised in NY and for you to give credit to Biden because he pronounces something a certain way is not only telling but insulting to Palin and people from that part of the country. Bush comes from Texas, maybe you should jump a flight and go spend a few days there. You may be suprised to see they all talk like him. Doesn't make them any smarter or ignorant. If you are going to dislike someone I would hope you can find something a little more substantial than something that can't be helped like speech.

I think there's a difference between peopel speaking differently because of accents, and people jumlbing and adding letters to existing words in the English language. SAying "have you ever been out of Queens" is unnecessary and ridiculous.

I assume you support Ebomonics then, dawg?

nwafan20
10-02-2008, 10:08 PM
Palin,

Palin I feel overwhelmingly won the debate. She really did present herself as a Washington outsider and connected on a personal level with the American people and kept away from reciting talking points like Biden did. Biden was constantly looking down at his paper and then looking to the moderator. Palin kept her eyes on the crowd and cameras and spoke an uplifting message to the American people. On the "how would you differ if you were president from your running mate" thing, man Biden SUCKED! He just repeated Obama's talking points... HE EVEN SAID CHANGE!!! What the heck? You would change the change from your president of change? That didn't make any sense to me....

Plus, Palin is hot!!!

Also, on an undecided independent polling group, (independent, slit 50/50 vote for Bush/Kerry in '04, and undecided in this election), 95% of them raised their hands saying Palin won the debate, I say you will see a bump to McCain from this.

Matt Molnar
10-02-2008, 10:13 PM
Matt have you ever been outside of Queens? Well I have driven and spent time in just about every state in this country and guess what? Some people talk differently than we do. They have different accents, pronounce things differentl etc. I doubt Palin tries to say things like a redneck nor can she help it. She wasn't raised in NY and for you to give credit to Biden because he pronounces something a certain way is not only telling but insulting to Palin and people from that part of the country. Bush comes from Texas, maybe you should jump a flight and go spend a few days there. You may be suprised to see they all talk like him. Doesn't make them any smarter or ignorant. If you are going to dislike someone I would hope you can find something a little more substantial than something that can't be helped like speech.
I have no problem with the various dialects and accents that comprise this country, but I do expect my national leaders to be articulate, especially after eight years of a guy who definitely was not.

MarkLawrence
10-02-2008, 10:19 PM
IMO - Biden took this. There are several things that make me say that - the first - although both at times didn't answer the questions, she was the bigger deflector of questions turning it to what she wanted to talk about - like Geraldine Ferraro said afterwards on NBC - if she'd mentioned energy once more, I wanted to shout at her as well. The second - cute doesn't cut it - and - really, at times she thought she was cute. The one that really I think turned it for me is that she thought that being the "executive branch" as Mayor of Wasilla and the Governor of Alaska would be able to bring her experience in Washington.

Tuesday is going to be interesting - Tom Brokaw made some interesting points towards questions for that debate...social security being a big one.

Matt Molnar
10-02-2008, 10:27 PM
I'm also pretty sure when she was talking about the VP's role in the Senate, she said something about wishing the Constitution gave the VP more powers to work with the Senate. Umm, what?!

bonanzabucks
10-02-2008, 10:47 PM
I say it was a draw.

Palin won on style points, delivery and connecting with the greater audience and how she relates to people. Also in appearance. She's HOT! Speaking of which, I'll be getting my own men's version of the "Sarah Palin glasses" on Monday (coincidentally, the day I start my new job!). Biden won on explaining the issues and policy, which Palin was pretty lacking in.

I don't think this helps McCain aside from stopping the bleeding and proving that Palin isn't a total dunce. I must say that Palin did much better than I thought she would do.

Other notes:

-I think Ed Rollins on CNN is really good and impartial compared to the others. I like David Gergan too (that guy is too smart).
-Bloomberg TV also has good and impartial analysts.
-I also think that giant CNN TV touch screen is amazing! The way they pulled and opened the boxes.
-Oh yeah, and that Republican strategist (that Spanish girl) is smoking hot! She's not that smart, though.

nwafan20
10-02-2008, 10:54 PM
Text voting is in:

Who won the debate?

a. Biden 12%
b. Palin 86%
c. Undecided 0%

misregistered 2% (nonreal answers)

Mr Smith
10-03-2008, 04:29 AM
Palin,

Palin I feel overwhelmingly won the debate. She really did present herself as a Washington outsider and connected on a personal level with the American people and kept away from reciting talking points like Biden did. Biden was constantly looking down at his paper and then looking to the moderator. Palin kept her eyes on the crowd and cameras and spoke an uplifting message to the American people. On the "how would you differ if you were president from your running mate" thing, man Biden SUCKED! He just repeated Obama's talking points... HE EVEN SAID CHANGE!!! What the heck? You would change the change from your president of change? That didn't make any sense to me....

Plus, Palin is hot!!!

Also, on an undecided independent polling group, (independent, slit 50/50 vote for Bush/Kerry in '04, and undecided in this election), 95% of them raised their hands saying Palin won the debate, I say you will see a bump to McCain from this.

as an outsider looking in I'm hoping you can attempt to salvage Palin's non-answer to this question, if you think Palin won by not answering the questions then you must enjoy being bull****ed.


IFILL: Sen. Biden, you voted for this bankruptcy bill. Sen. Obama voted against it. Some people have said that mortgage- holders really paid the price.

PALIN: That is not so, but because thats just a quick answer, I want to talk about, again, my record on energy versus your tickets energy ticket, also.

I think that this is important to come back to, with that energy policy plan again that was voted for in 05.

When we talk about energy, we have to consider the need to do all that we can to allow this nation to become energy independent.

Its a nonsensical position that we are in when we have domestic supplies of energy all over this great land. And East Coast politicians who dont allow energy-producing states like Alaska to produce these, to tap into them, and instead were relying on foreign countries to produce for us.

PALIN: We're circulating about $700 billion a year into foreign countries, some who do not like America -- they certainly don't have our best interests at heart instead of those dollars circulating here, creating tens of thousands of jobs and allowing domestic supplies of to be tapped into and start flowing into these very, very hungry markets.

Energy independence is the key to this nation's future, to our economic future, and to our national security. So when we talk about energy plans, it's not just about who got a tax break and who didn't. And we're not giving oil companies tax breaks, but it's about a heck of a lot more than that.

Energy independence is the key to America's future.
IFILL: Governor, I'm happy to talk to you in this next section about energy issues.

count the amount of times she uses the word energy in an answer about a bankruptcy bill...the only thing correct about this answer is it's nonsensical, and that's being generous. correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this energy/drill-baby-drill a McCain talking point?


Biden won...IMO. He was to the point, gave strong examples, and seemed to be more of a Statesman. I thought Palin was visibility nervous and didn't answer a number of questions. I think Obama gets the bump after this.

you gonna vote now?

NIKV69
10-03-2008, 07:16 AM
unnecessary and ridiculous

Actually Phil what is unnessary and ridiculous is how someone can put down a VP candidate because of how she talks. I think one should remember that just because you don't talk like a Harvard graduate and pronounce words the same as someone from the ivy league doesn't you mean you are not articulate. It's elitist and it smells the same as saying people are clinging to their guns and religion. That is what we don't need.



Who won the debate?

a. Biden 12%
b. Palin 86%
c. Undecided 0%


This can not be accurate. I would actually give the slight nod to Biden. I don't think it makes that big a difference in the election at this point as will the last two presidential debates unless something crazy happens. I can't see how an undecided voter can come out of last night with anything. It was like watching CNN and FOX and actually having the candidates giving the talking points instead of Wolf Blitzer.


you gonna vote now?

Again if I was undecided I don't think it would help me decide. Two main points are at play here. Most may be afraid Obama is going to jack up taxes (which he will) and some may feel alienated by his elitism. Not to mention he would embolden our enemies with his prior comments. All in all as I stated before I don't think the election would be any different if it was held last week or Nov 4th. These debates are not what they used to be. We have the new breed of journalism and internet to thank.

T-Bird76
10-03-2008, 08:02 AM
Text voting is in:

Who won the debate?

a. Biden 12%
b. Palin 86%
c. Undecided 0%

misregistered 2% (nonreal answers)

Which text voting is this Matt? All the quick polls after the debate give it to Biden. Palin is certainly a nice person and very Americana but I don't want June Cleaver next in line for the big seat. As I said I give it to Biden but I'm still undecided at this point.

As for facts.. Take a look at Factcheck.org. Its interesting when you read how many mistakes these guys make...I just shake my head.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008 ... ebate.html (http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/factchecking_biden-palin_debate.html)

mirrodie
10-03-2008, 10:36 AM
Just like the text in vote on FoxNews challen, with Palin winning 95%. Right :roll:

I always consider the sources.

There are lies,
There are damned lies,
and then there are statistics (and now text-in voting.... :roll: )


A spirited debate. My VPILF looked good.

Biden was good on points, Palin on presentation. Palin really tried to play the "I'm an average American gal" but over played the card and I found Biden's response of a widower his struggles enlightening.

Both acknowledged correctly that their administrations will have to have a hand in the economic mess we are in.


Though most are afraid Obama will raise taxes, I do recall a Bush promise of the same that fell through. history has a strange way of repeating itself.

bonanzabucks
10-03-2008, 11:31 AM
I think one should remember that just because you don't talk like a Harvard graduate and pronounce words the same as someone from the ivy league doesn't you mean you are not articulate.

The irony about this is that Bush is both Harvard and Yale educated and he's still very inarticulate!

NIKV69
10-03-2008, 11:44 AM
The irony about this is that Bush is both Harvard and Yale educated and he's still very inarticulate!



What is more ironic is that you seem to confuse intelligence with an ability to speak in a certain way. Much as GW has been ridiculed for his speech and pronouciation. Further shows Matt's argument to be weak, you are falling into the trap that the media is setting. They want you to believe that if you are articulate and can speak in front of a lot of people your a great leader. Not always true.

bonanzabucks
10-03-2008, 12:05 PM
Where in that post did I say that Bush lacked intelligence? Point it out, please.

The guy is a bad speaker, plain and simple. I find it ironic that for someone who went to top schools (especially for an MBA, which is all about making connections and even improving delivery) his whole life, he can't pronounce certain words properly. I don't think the fact he was raised in Texas has anything to do with it.

Matt Molnar
10-03-2008, 12:11 PM
Further shows Matt's argument to be weak, you are falling into the trap that the media is setting. They want you to believe that if you are articulate and can speak in front of a lot of people your a great leader. Not always true.
One of the top priorities for voters in this election is to pick someone who can help the country repair the damage to its image caused by several years of weak leadership and bad decision making. Being able to speak eloquently goes a long way toward that, and I don't feel McCain/Palin would be able to do that. That does not mean that I am sold on Obama's leadership abilities. We've had plenty of great speakers in charge who weren't great leaders...Bill Clinton, Mario Cuomo...and some great speakers who were great leaders, FDR, JFK.

Tom_Turner
10-03-2008, 06:05 PM
Watching that "debate" last night was painful.

By coincidence, I happen to have already had a passing familiarity with Palin's performance in Alaska, prior to her nomination as Republican VP, and my impressions have been favorable, so I was not buying the negative hype surrounding her.

Until Now.

McCain is not going to live forever, and its difficult to be confident Palin will be ready in time.

I fully realize the ever helpful media will often pepper candidates of the party in which they do not find favor, with questions wherein the "correct" or truthful answer will be an unpopular one politically - thus injuring the chances of the candidates they wish to vanish if the candidate answers honestly. At that point, nearly every candidate will give a mealy mouth twerpy response, or go on to give a complete non-answer and simply repeat their talking points - which also makes them look bad (except to the genuine cool aid drinkers).

In Palin's case however, she simply seemed unable and unprepared to answer nearly all the questions. What is so great about that? Her high points was when she was able to lob half truth criticisms at Obama, that had been previously used by the hapless Biden earlier in the campaign. She "scores" here, (against Biden) but it is a hallow victory for those moments.

"Vote for me because I look like you or have something in common with you and you'll feel better". Is that, and a few cliches (we should not spend beyond our means) really a compelling reason to vote for her?

Actually I begin to wonder if she did not do herself a disservice. Its hard for me to believe she is really no more than a soccer mom who got to become governor.

She comes across to me now as more callow even than Obama, although I will agree executive experience can be, perhaps, more valuable than a Legislative background.

Biden did well I thought, and I am no fan of his. Still, he did not disappoint entirely, most especially when he became a scientist declaring beyond a shadow of a doubt that man created Global Warming. If he's wrong ten years down the line, and trillions of dollars later, he will simply shrug it off. - No biggie.

Apart from that goofball moment, he cannot really have it both ways on Foreign Policy.

To the extent he might have been right in foreseeing the breakup and surrounding geopolitics of Yugoslavia (I'll have to take his word on that for the moment) he seems oblivious to just how unpopular the US is all over Europe amongst the general populace precisely for bombing Serbia to pieces - and this is not out of sympathy for Milosevic's rule. What do have now to show for all that? We're popular in Bosnia and Albania?