Shame on the NY Times and Post

[T-Bird76]

The New York Times and Post truly should be ashamed of themselves today. At work we carry a number of the local papers and every one of them but the Post and the Times have pieces on 9/11 as the cover story. The Times doesn't even have it on the bottom fold and the Post has a 1x1 top right corner mention of it but instead decided to run the Pig with Lipstick story as the top story.

The Times IMO truly has become the worst most unpatriototic paper in this country. It’s truly a sad day when our local papers don't have the respect to honor fallen heroes. Shame on both papers and their Editors.

[adam613]

As it happens, both the Times and the Post have 9/11 front-and-center on their web sites, which reach a much wider audience than the papers do...

http://www.adamtrilling.com/pics/post.jpg
http://www.adamtrilling.com/pics/times.jpg

I've found it very interesting how, over the last 10 or so years, so many people (mostly conservatives, and most notably Dick Cheney, although I've heard liberals do it as well) call others "unpatriotic" to cover up their own hatred of America when attacking certain fundamental American traditions, such as independent media, freedom of religion, and innocence until proven otherwise in a court of law...

[T-Bird76]

Adam you should be in politics, you do great job a deflecting the true story... However you fall drastically short in this case. Neither the Times nor the Post have 9/11 as their front cover in the paper edition, plain and simple. You think that is right? I know you work for the Times but that paper hasn't had the luster it once had in a long time. The Editors of these papers should have made sure it was front and center in today’s edition.

Oh as for the Times webpage...you call that front and center? LOLOL Another joke... The top story is "Bush gives order to allow raids in Pakistan. Sorry but there's no defense for this disgrace.

[adam613]

Yes, I think it's right. Papers are for news...this is not news, it happened seven years ago. It'll be news (front-page in both papers, I suspect) tomorrow when McCain and Obama do their memorializing tonight. Day-of, the web is a much more appropriate medium for 9/11 memorials than the paper is, and both papers used their web sites for that purpose. And it's in the front page, right in the middle...I don't know how you get more front-and-center than that.

Putting pictures of airplanes flying into the WTC on the front page of the paper every year does nothing to honor those who were killed. All it does is remind the world that Osama Bin Laden mounted a successful attack on the US. Rubbing it in everyone's face is just as bad as forgetting it ever happened (as Rudy Giulianni may have finally learned).

[mirrodie]

My view?

I have no problem with them not putting it on their front page. Its not unpatriotic.

We live in remembrance of 9/11 every single day of our lives. Do I really need the front page news to remind me? From bumper stickers on the road to everyday security concerns. 1000 feet from my home is a street named for one of our neighborhood members who died that day.

No one will ever ever forget the people that died that day. But we need to forget the evil we faced.

As I type this, I just heard the name "Mario" read aloud as one of those who died.
2nd time I heard "Mario" read today.

Some people need to move to normalcy in order to heal. Perhaps this gives them that normalcy, as every other paper is going to remind them.

[T-Bird76]

Adam once again you deflect...man you do try, but once again you're off the mark. I never said the sight of two planes should be on the front page. What should be on the front page as it is with pretty much on every other paper in this country and others is a remembrance of 9/11 to honor those who were lost. I’m sadden that you think the actions by the Times and post are right…let me tell you…its not right and I’m sure the victims of that day would agree.


No one will ever forget the people that died that day. But we need to forget the evil we faced.

Mario I'm rather surprised by your logic? We need to forget the evil we faced? Please explain this logic as it is flawed in my eyes. To many times in the past we forgot about evil we've faced for it to repeat itself. Mario if someone harmed your family would you forget about that evil in time, no you wouldn’t, and the evil faced that day should never be forgotten.

The events that day need to be taught in our schools and kept in our minds so we don't let it happen again. Americans far too often return to complacency as time goes by and it bites us down road. Remember the weeks after 9/11…our country came together; people were nicer to each other? That’s gone now totally out the window. Days like today should serve as reminder of the past, that we are all one country and one people. Choosing to push it aside as it gets lost in our daily routine isn’t the answer.

I don't think it’s the responsibility of either paper to run a front page 9/11 remembrance story...they can do what they want. However there are certain events in our lifetime where good taste and social responsibility must come first. Both of these papers choose to do the opposite. One thing I find interesting and perhaps the both of you can answer this? Why every December 7th does the NY Times run a front cover remembrance of Pearl Harbor? Are the events of 12/7/45 somehow more significant then the events of 9/11/01? The NY Times seems to think so. Defend it to your blue in the face but the majority of Patriotic Americans would agree that the Social Marxist style of the Times is wrong.

[NYCMedic]

Tommy, I couldn't agree with you more. 9/11 is a day of rememberance and should get a noteworthy space in all newspapers nationwide. not necessarily front page. A few years ago my Grandfather was extremely upset that Pearl Harbor Day was overlooked by the media. 9/11 was pretty much the Pearl Harbor of our generation. (Yes I realize the attack on Pearl Harbor was during a war and on a military base). As a 9/11 rescue worker and survivor I take personal offense to the media snub. 9/11/2001 wasn't just about 2 planes flying into 2 buildings. There were 2 other aircraft that were used as missiles that day, and if you listen to the conspiracy theorists there may have been more planned attacks. IMHO 9/11 showed the true spirit of real Americans. It was a horrific way to show that even after 200 years of independence our country still has to be vigilant in the fight for the freedoms we all enjoy every day. I know we celebrate this on July 4th, but maybe 9/11 should serve as a reminder that we can overcome tragedy. It should also be a day to remember the innocent victimsand rescue workers who were forced into becoming foot soldiers that morning. as I sat in the 9/11 tribute park near my house this morning with about 300 other people all there to mourn the loss of 75 local residents (mostly FDNY), it all came back to me like it was yesterday. Staring out across Jamaica Bay, past Floyd Bennett you could see the empty space in the Manhattan skyline and just a rush of anger as I thought of all the victims, some of them friends and co-workers.

NEVER FORGIVE.....NEVER FORGET!!!!! 8:46 9:03 9:59 10:28

[Matt Molnar]

Why every December 7th does the NY Times run a front cover remembrance of Pearl Harbor?
Do they?

[T-Bird76]

Why every December 7th does the NY Times run a front cover remembrance of Pearl Harbor?
Do they?

Yes its always mentioned somewhere on the front page. While it might not be full page, its on there. 9/11 didn't even get the bottom fold...real classy outfit the Times are.

[Matt Molnar]

If that's the case I'm a bit disappointed. But print newspapers are becoming less relevant by the hour, and they've been making some rash decisions as they grow desperate to stay afloat. On the other hand, the 9/11 coverage on NYTimes.com today far surpasses all the other local papers put together, so I'm not that upset about it.

I am a bit peeved that Google doesn't do a special logo today the way they do for all sorts of random artists' and scientists' birthdays and relatively minor milestones. Lego's 50th birthday gets a "doodle" as they call them, but 9/11 does not.

[T-Bird76]

Oh I have another question...


Yes, I think it's right. Papers are for news...this is not news, it happened seven years ago.

How is the anniversary of the largest attack on the civilian population of this country not news worthy? Your way of thinking intrigues me..please explain?

[T-Bird76]

If that's the case I'm a bit disappointed. But print newspapers are becoming less relevant by the hour, and they've been making some rash decisions as they grow desperate to stay afloat. On the other hand, the 9/11 coverage on NYTimes.com today far surpasses all the other local papers put together, so I'm not that upset about it.

I am a bit peeved that Google doesn't do a special logo today the way they do for all sorts of random artists' and scientists' birthdays and relatively minor milestones. Lego's 50th birthday gets a "doodle" as they call them, but 9/11 does not.

Add Google to the list of shame then to!

[Art at ISP]

With all due respect to those affected,

We can NEVER forget what happened 7 years ago today. Whether or not there is a commemoration on a web page or newspaper, however, pales in importance to the fact that we have yet to bring those responsible to justice.

Let's not forget that we are still at war, and until we can capture or kill the head of the snake, it will keep growing and growing. We need to focus on that job, not worry about things like this.

Without being partisan, we have not done enough to insure that our country and people are safe--in some cases we have failed miserably 7 years after the fact. We should tell Pakistan, if we have proof that Al Qaeda is there, either you get em or we will--simple as that.

I am not a hawk, but they started it........and we should finish it.

I lost dear friends on that day--I promise you regardless of what a newspaper does or does not say, I will NEVER forget.

I honor and cherish the memories of those lost, and wish peace and love to the families they left behind.

[lijk604]

Well said Art, well said.

[T-Bird76]

With all due respect to those affected,

We can NEVER forget what happened 7 years ago today. Whether or not there is a commemoration on a web page or newspaper, however, pales in importance to the fact that we have yet to bring those responsible to justice.

Let's not forget that we are still at war, and until we can capture or kill the head of the snake, it will keep growing and growing. We need to focus on that job, not worry about things like this.

Without being partisan, we have not done enough to insure that our country and people are safe--in some cases we have failed miserably 7 years after the fact. We should tell Pakistan, if we have proof that Al Qaeda is there, either you get em or we will--simple as that.

I am not a hawk, but they started it........and we should finish it.

I lost dear friends on that day--I promise you regardless of what a newspaper does or does not say, I will NEVER forget.

I honor and cherish the memories of those lost, and wish peace and love to the families they left behind.

Well said Art but while you and I will never forget the institutions that influence society shouldn't forget either or downplay it, that's the entire point. Our society follows the trends in the media so closely that media must show certain levels of social responsibility in cases like so the public doesn't put it in the back of their mind or forget about the evil that befell us that day.

[mirrodie]

A-To many times in the past we forgot about evil we've faced for it to repeat itself. Mario if someone harmed your family would you forget about that evil in time, no you wouldn’t, and the evil faced that day should never be forgotten.

B-I don't think it’s the responsibility of either paper to run a front page 9/11 remembrance story..... However there are certain events in our lifetime where good taste and social responsibility must come first.

C- Are the events of 12/7/45 somehow more significant then the events of 9/11/01? The NY Times seems to think so. Defend it to your blue in the face but the majority of Patriotic Americans would agree that the Social Marxist style of the Times is wrong.

A-Tom, my point is simple. We all grieve differently. I don't need every paper to follow lock and step and run a front page on the obvious. And if people need a paper to remember, that belies a far deeper problem. Perhaps its the optimist in me. Just yesterday I was thinking that we need to make 9/10 a holiday, in remembrance of the way things were prior to 9-11. That is not to take away from 9-11 but unfortunately some would see it as so.

B- It may not be their responsibility, but what you were highlighting was that those 2 papers did not make it FRONT story.(that was in your first paragrapf) If they mentioned it, then they've done their social duties.

C- I'm not defending anyone.

[wunaladreamin]

Tommy, I want to buy you a beer. Bravo dude. Bravo.

[T-Bird76]

B- It may not be their responsibility, but what you were highlighting was that those 2 papers did not make it FRONT story.(that was in your first paragraph) If they mentioned it, then they've done their social duties.

Not true...they failed at their social duty. You don't put a Pig with Lip stick over the anniversary of 9/11 plain and simple and you are the minority if you think what they did was right.


A-Tom, my point is simple. We all grieve differently. I don't need every paper to follow lock and step and run a front page on the obvious. And if people need a paper to remember, that belies a far deeper problem. Perhaps it’s the optimist in me. Just yesterday I was thinking that we need to make 9/10 a holiday, in remembrance of the way things were prior to 9-11. That is not to take away from 9-11 but unfortunately some would see it as so.

Problem is Mario its not obvious to many people today...many in this nation have become complacent. You might not have but many have. Large institutions that sway people's opinion must keep in mind that events like this must be brought to the center of attention to serve as reminders of what we once had.


C- I'm not defending anyone.

Perhaps not but your justifying a social injustice. Again while these two papers have the right to do what they want sometimes that right has to be put aside for what is morally just.

[NIKV69]

Tommy it's the NY Times. Why would this even surprise you. Their track record since this election started has been terrible. You would think out of respect they would devote most of their front page to the fact it is the anniversay of 9/11 but I guess not.

Not to change the subject but I found the fact that Michelle Obama did not join her husband in paying respect today at the site today disturbing. Seeing Cindy McCain behind her husband as they walked and not Michelle Obama was just another instance where I lose respect for her. Your asking for our vote yet you can't take a morning out of your life and come to a state (which your husband will most likely win) and show us you care just a little about what happened to us. Shame.

[mirrodie]

Not true...they failed at their social duty. You don't put a Pig with Lip stick over the anniversary of 9/11 plain and simple and you are the minority if you think what they did was right.

Are you kidding me? So they failed b/c they didn't make 9/11 their front page story? Have a glass of vino and chill. It's America and they exercised their freedom to do what they chose. Not once did I say they were right but can see perhaps why they chose not to.



Problem is Mario its not obvious to many people today...many in this nation have become complacent. You might not have but many have. Large institutions that sway people's opinion must keep in mind that events like this must be brought to the center of attention to serve as reminders of what we once had.

And where are you deriving that many have become complacent? Even NYPD police commissioner Ray Kelly was quoted today saying the city is on watchful. He thinks terrorists want to strike again but they are waiting until we get complacent. 7 years they've waited for that complacency. Perhaps we have not put down our guard as you think we have.


Perhaps not but your justifying a social injustice. Again while these two papers have the right to do what they want sometimes that right has to be put aside for what is morally just.

Be careful when you accuse me of justifying when I simply have offered an alternative POV Justifying implies that what the papers did was right and I am advocating it.

Lastly, the media and morality are like oil and water. It shouldnt surprise you that morality is not in their parlance.


Tommy it's the NY Times. Why would this even surprise you. Their track record since this election started has been terrible. You would think out of respect they would devote most of their front page to the fact it is the anniversay of 9/11 but I guess not.

Not to change the subject but I found the fact that Michelle Obama did not join her husband in paying respect today at the site today disturbing. Seeing Cindy McCain behind her husband as they walked and not Michelle Obama was just another instance where I lose respect for her. Your asking for our vote yet you can't take a morning out of your life and come to a state (which your husband will most likely win) and show us you care just a little about what happened to us. Shame.

Not to change the subject but yada yada yada.....And where was Sarah Palin? Why haven't you noted that? Oh, sending her son off to war and tending to her family. And yet her absence does not imply Palin doesnt care.

Perhaps Michelle Obama had family issues to deal with as well?

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch ... miche.html (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/why-wasnt-miche.html)

There is a lot to be said about benefit of the doubt.

[T-Bird76]

Are you kidding me? So they failed b/c they didn't make 9/11 their front page story? Have a glass of vino and chill. It's America and they exercised their freedom to do what they chose. Not once did I say they were right but can see perhaps why they chose not to.

Yes they failed. Yes they excised their freedom to do what they chose and they choose the wrong path.


And where are you deriving that many have become complacent? Even NYPD police commissioner Ray Kelly was quoted today saying the city is on watchful. He thinks terrorists want to strike again but they are waiting until we get complacent. 7 years they've waited for that complacency. Perhaps we have not put down our guard as you think we have.

The mere point the Times and Post decided to do what they did is proof some don't think its important anymore.


Lastly, the media and morality are like oil and water. It shouldnt surprise you that morality is not in their parlance.

Your right and most of the time I'd expect it...in this case I thought they had more taste then that. I guess I'm more naive then I thought.

[mirrodie]

Not naive. You assumed they'd pull though and do the right thing.

Next time, just give them the benefit of the doubt :wink:

[NIKV69]

.....And where was Sarah Palin

LOL, yes Mario, where was Biden, where was Rice, Where was everybody? Palin is not asking for your vote as POTUS she is a VP election candiadate not a President. Obama is, and his wife should have accompanied him to an area on a date that is important to many people. It's ok she can have a free pass. After this election she will have a lot of free time to come visit and say she is sorry.

[mirrodie]

Why I am not surprised by such ridiculous justification? :roll: :roll: Such comments make Matt Damon look credible.

No one is faulting Palin, and yes, she is a step away from POTUS. A stoke, a heart attack, a breath away from the position. Failure to realize this is myopic.

Your lack of clarity in realizing how important a VP is, by dismissing her, perhaps illustrates that perhaps you aren't ready to make such proper choices.

For future reference, keep your political banter in the appropriate forum rather then try and inject your skewed political views in off topic posts.

[lijk604]

Mario, I think what Nick is trying to say is this....
Michelle Obama is Barrack's wfe and she should have been there to support him.
Sarah Palin is John McCain's running mate. His WIFE Cindy was there.
Joe Biden, Obama's running mate, who is also a heart attack, stroke, gunshot, away from the Presidency was not there either. This was about the POTUS candidates and thier families only.

[Matt Molnar]

The link Mario posted seems to give a pretty solid reason for Michelle not being present.

Honestly, I think McCain and Obama showing up was enough. Bringing the running mates and their spouses just makes it a bigger spectacle, and draws attention away from what the day is all about. I'm sure they've all paid their respects at ground zero at one point or another.

[mirrodie]

This was about the POTUS candidates and thier families only.

John, I realize that, but to talk only of POTUS is an error in judgement.


The link Mario posted seems to give a pretty solid reason for Michelle not being present.


I've no problem with it.


and draws attention away from what the day is all about.

And some folks, as you clearly saw above, fall for it, hook, line, sinker.

[T-Bird76]

I agree with Matt that I think its enough that Obama and McCain were there, anymore would have been a Horse and Pony show.

9/11 is a sharp topic for this country with many having varied views of what's right and wrong. It's my opinion that companies that influence the public must be socially responsible and keep this event in the forefront. I've never stated it is their obligation to run 9/11 front cover news but it is a social responsibility which is a choice. The Times and Post could run Mario's Moon over Maho for all I care. However there are times in the course our existence that doing the right thing over what you can do must take precedent. It’s my view what the Times and Post did were wrong and as a consumer I will speak with my wallet and not utilize their product any longer.

[mirrodie]

I agree with Matt that I think its enough that Obama and McCain were there, anymore would have been a Horse and Pony show.


Yeah, Matt hit it best, which is why I looked past the Michelle nonsense.

Some are lemmings when it comes to what the news feeds them.

[Tom_Turner]

Did Bush come to Ground Zero this year?

Tom

[Matt Molnar]

Did Bush come to Ground Zero this year?

Tom
Nope.