13 Approach on August 23 ?

[Speedbird1]

I was at the US Tennis Center on Sat. watching procedures at LGA and some tennis, too. I noticed a strange approach into LGA. Aircraft arriving went up the Hudson, turned over Yonkers, like a standard LDA-A 22 Approach, but upon reaching the Whitestone Bridge, they made a sharp right turn over Hunt's Point and north of Astoria into Rwy 13. I never saw that approach before. What is its name? Why weren't aircraft arriving on Rwy 22? Was it closed? This procedure was in use after 1500. In the am, aircraft arrived on Rwy 31.

[Delta777LR]

I was wondering the same thing, I saw those apporoaches.. I was thinking they was using rwy 22.. As long as I lived in the Bronx, Ive never seen approaches like that in my life, but I found it interesting.

[Speedbird1]

Yes, I've never seen that approach before either. Rwy 22 must have been closed. The Rwy 13 approach followed the Bruckner Expwy in a southwesterly direction from the Whitestone Bridge then turned into Rwy 13 over Mott Haven. Several aircraft got lost and missed the approach altogether. I was watching the whole thing from the top section of Arthur Ashe Stadium where you get a clear view. It was a strange approach, more interesting than the tennis matches below. LGA operations are fascinating; especially since they only have 2 runways to work with. I tip my hat to the LGA controllers.

[corellian21]

yes , due to the construction being done on 4-22, it is unique to see.

[PhilDernerJr]

Is there an approach plate for this?

[Speedbird1]

Yes, I would also like to know if there is an approach plate for this procedure and what it is called. It must be some sort of Rwy 22 Approach, circle to land on Rwy 13. This reminds me of when EWR has jets approaching for a 22L arrival but because of strong westerly winds, they circle for a Rwy 31 arrival. I saw this procedure several times while riding on the Staten Island Ferry of all places.

[cancidas]

there is no plate for it and it's not a normal published approach. aircraft flew the standard LDA to 22 with a circle to land on 13. it was interesting to watch, and for the entire time i was at work there wasn't a single go-around. a few of the pilots i spoke to that day mentioned it's nice when ATC lets them fly the airplanes, and i agree!

[PhilDernerJr]

At what point are they supposed to turn right to make their way towards 13? Just sounds like a wild approach fro something with no plate without ever having done it before.

[cancidas]

At what point are they supposed to turn right to make their way towards 13? Just sounds like a wild approach fro something with no plate without ever having done it before.
i don't know exactly what point it was but i know the controllers who were there that afternoon so i'll find out. i'm wagering a guess that it was before the inner marker, and that pilots were vectored into the base leg.

[AA 777]

Could it have also been just regular circling minimum? Obviously this would depend on the category of the plane which is based on the approach speed.

[LGA777]

Saturday was the first time I have ever seen this approach used for all 13 arrivals. What I have seen a few dozen times over the years is when LGA was departing 13 and landing 22 a landing aircraft would be to close behind the aircraft in front of it and instead of having the second aircraft go-around they had it fly the circle to land 13. In many cases this was a regional size aircraft. Seeing 757's fly it Saturday sure was fun, and I am sure even more for the pilots.

After work Saturday night I was driving with my wife in the Bronx. We had stopped at the corner of Webster Ave and Claremont Parkway which is about 1/2 mile south of the Cross Bronx Expressway. I heard a low flying aircraft and looked up to see a DL MD88 turning southound at a VERY low altitudue. He proceded right down (overhead) Webster Ave then lined up with 13. I have lived in the Bronx for 5 years now and I have never seen an airliner even twice as low as this Maddog. I am positve in a daylight I could have read the reg.

Finally if any of you ever see a LGA approach or departure pattern you are not familiar with LGA Atis 718-478-6118 normally mentions the approach in use, for example as I type this it mentions LGA is using the Expressway Visual Approach to Runway 31, actually a little surprising since it's the first day of the US Open.

Cheers

LGA777

[Matt Molnar]

I was wondering what was going on. I was getting off the N at Astoria Blvd Saturday evening when I saw a plane in the distance heading northwest to southeast...i figured they were using the River Visual and they were just vectoring this guy into the front of the line for low fuel or something.

[Speedbird1]

The aircraft seemed to make a sharp turn into Rwy 13 near or just over North Brother Island in the East River at altitude about 600'. No aircraft flew over Manhattan in this approach. However, the jets flew north following the Hudson to make the standard LDA approach until Yonkers. The approach was so interesting that I missed several tennis matches at the Tennis Center. As a bonus, I could see departures off Rwy 31L at JFK from the other side of the Stadium. I also saw Federer. The visibility was excellent; needed for such an approach. It ressembles the visual approach over the LIE to Rwy 31, but from the other way.

[JHNA57]

Try this link, Maybe this will give you a better "visual" of the approach,

http://www4.passur.com/lga.html

Set the date for 8/23 and the time for 1500 hrs

[LGA777]

After work Saturday night I was driving with my wife in the Bronx. We had stopped at the corner of Webster Ave and Claremont Parkway which is about 1/2 mile south of the Cross Bronx Expressway. I heard a low flying aircraft and looked up to see a DL MD88 turning southound at a VERY low altitudue. He proceded right down (overhead) Webster Ave then lined up with 13. I have lived in the Bronx for 5 years now and I have never seen an airliner even twice as low as this Maddog. I am positve in a daylight I could have read the reg.

LGA777

Thanks JHNA57 for reminding me about Passur history. I actually found the above mentioned flight, DL 1488 from MCO, he actually passed over me at 1000 feet according to Passur. For anyone interested in this sort of thing set the passur link for Aug 23rd at 2046 lcl and you can track DL 1488's unique approach over the Bronx. It is exactly where it was when I saw it. Only approach it seems like that.

That MD88 and the AA 757 behind it sort of flow the Expressway visual to 13, the Cross Bronx Expressway visual that is.

Cheers

LGA777

[adam613]

It sounds like LDA-A aproach, circle to land 13...you don't really need a separate approach plate for that. You follow the LDA-A approach, but then when you have the runway in sight you land on 13 visually.

I've never even heard of LGA using this approach though...Circling approaches at major airports are extremely rare. I heard them use ILS 13 circle to land 22 once...there was a weather situation at the time. I'm surprised there weren't any go-arounds...

[JHNA57]

Thanks JHNA57 for reminding me about Passur history.

I use this website at least 2 or 3 times a week. I'm always checking on 22L arrivals that dissapear behind the trees just when I realize they are there. Just check your watch (or cellphone), and look it up later in the day. It's great for those "Damn, I missed it" moments.

I also use it to identify those real high flights where you see the contrail and can just make out the type of plane with the naked eye.

[DHG750R]

It's not a published apporach , it is one that is rarely used. It was more frequently used years ago. There may have been a published approach . IIRC there once was an NDB at the LGA 2.5 dme along the extended centerline of 4-22 that denoted the point to begin the circling.