Port OKs $20 Million Study for JFK Delta Terminal Rebuild

[Matt Molnar]

Crain's:

Port Authority OKs study for JFK renovation (http://www.crainsnewyork.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080522/FREE/224234438/1066/information)

The Port Authority’s board authorized a plan to spend $20 million studying what could become a $3 billion renovation of Terminals 2 and 3, both occupied by Delta Air Lines.

May 22. 2008 2:21PM By: Hilary Potkewitz

Bloomberg News

Delta Air Lines and the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey on Thursday announced plans for the massive reconstruction of two terminals at John F. Kennedy International Airport, a project that could cost more than $3 billion.

The Port Authority’s board authorized a plan to spend $20 million to study the redevelopment of Terminals 2 and 3, which are both occupied by Delta.

The study, slated for completion by the end of the year, is the first step in the building process. [Full Article (http://www.crainsnewyork.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080522/FREE/224234438/1066/information)]

[RDU-JFK]

Woo hoo!!

[T-Bird76]

This needs to be done, if Delta is at all serious of keeping JFK as a HUB they need the facilities to support their biz plan.

[kc2aqg]

While it is definitely true that DL needs new facilities at JFK in order to effectively compete, it is hard to believe that anybody, DL or the PA, is willing to spend $3 billion in this economy. With the current state of the industry and the outlook projected both in the aviation industry, energy/fuel, and the overall economy, I just don't see it materializing...

[cancidas]

about time! last time i had to pick my mother up from there i was honestly saddenned by the appearance...

[Matt Molnar]

The PA can afford it, Delta cannot though.

[T-Bird76]

While it is definitely true that DL needs new facilities at JFK in order to effectively compete, it is hard to believe that anybody, DL or the PA, is willing to spend $3 billion in this economy. With the current state of the industry and the outlook projected both in the aviation industry, energy/fuel, and the overall economy, I just don't see it materializing...

AA spent 1.3 billion to begin construction on T8 right after 9/11...the same could have been said back then. jetBlue is spending the same on T5. You have to spend money sometimes to make money. T2 and T3 cannot handle the flow of passengers Delta sends through there everyday. These are long term investments that will reduce operating costs and the initial investment more then likely will be amortized over a number of years.

[Matt Molnar]

It's my understanding that Delta had a $1.6 billion plan to do this in 2001, but scrapped it following 9/11 and their ensuing bankruptcy.

[bonanzabucks]

The PA can afford it, Delta cannot though.

PA can probably also afford more runways too, which is what we desperately need if we really want to compete in the long-run. SWF just doesn't cut it.

[Matt Molnar]

The PA can afford it, Delta cannot though.

PA can probably also afford more runways too, which is what we desperately need if we really want to compete in the long-run. SWF just doesn't cut it.
I think they would gladly pave over Jamaica and Flushing Bays if it were up to them. Unfortunately it's not. Fish have more eminent domain rights than people these days.

[kc2aqg]

Matt, what are you talking about? There are no fish in Jamaica bay! lol

[Idlewild]

Jamaica Bay is owned by the Feds via National Park. This includes a majority of the Rockaways on the north side. What NYS can do is say that the surrounding neighborhoods, Rosdale, Springfield Gardens, the Ozones, etc. are "blighted" and tht airport expansion would bring in more revenue. I remember at one point, about twenty years ago or so, the PANYNJ was interested in Aqueduct as additional cargo space. And like I said in another post, the PANYNJ can make a case of buying Rikers island, filling in the gap with a dock like structure and use Rikers as additional terminal and runway space.

[Matt Molnar]

Jamaica Bay is owned by the Feds via National Park. This includes a majority of the Rockaways on the north side. What NYS can do is say that the surrounding neighborhoods, Rosdale, Springfield Gardens, the Ozones, etc. are "blighted" and tht airport expansion would bring in more revenue. I remember at one point, about twenty years ago or so, the PANYNJ was interested in Aqueduct as additional cargo space. And like I said in another post, the PANYNJ can make a case of buying Rikers island, filling in the gap with a dock like structure and use Rikers as additional terminal and runway space.
The blighted argument might hold water in Jamaica, where they are looking to expand the AirTrain terminal area with hotels and what not, but I'm pretty sure the residents of the neighborhoods you mention would block any expansion pretty forcefully. Aqueduct would be a nice spot (I don't see the need for two tracks so close to each other), but NIMBYs would complain about the truck traffic. As for Rikers, we would need to find housing for the 30,000 inmates who live there, and jails are probably the only thing more despised by NIMBYs than airports. Environmentalists would not allow any filling in the bay anyway.

[Idlewild]

Jamaica Bay is owned by the Feds via National Park. This includes a majority of the Rockaways on the north side. What NYS can do is say that the surrounding neighborhoods, Rosdale, Springfield Gardens, the Ozones, etc. are "blighted" and tht airport expansion would bring in more revenue. I remember at one point, about twenty years ago or so, the PANYNJ was interested in Aqueduct as additional cargo space. And like I said in another post, the PANYNJ can make a case of buying Rikers island, filling in the gap with a dock like structure and use Rikers as additional terminal and runway space.
The blighted argument might hold water in Jamaica, where they are looking to expand the AirTrain terminal area with hotels and what not, but I'm pretty sure the residents of the neighborhoods you mention would block any expansion pretty forcefully. Aqueduct would be a nice spot (I don't see the need for two tracks so close to each other), but NIMBYs would complain about the truck traffic. As for Rikers, we would need to find housing for the 30,000 inmates who live there, and jails are probably the only thing more despised by NIMBYs than airports. Environmentalists would not allow any filling in the bay anyway.


Most of those arguments, except for the prisoner issue, were quashed or ignored for the Atlantic Yards project. You could always use Governor's Island, the south end of Roosevelt or one ofthe many islands scattered throuh out NYC waters to replace Riker's. Hell ain't nothing happening in the south Bronx.

[Lezam]

The PA can afford it, Delta cannot though.

PA can probably also afford more runways too, which is what we desperately need if we really want to compete in the long-run. SWF just doesn't cut it.
I think they would gladly pave over Jamaica and Flushing Bays if it were up to them. Unfortunately it's not. Fish have more eminent domain rights than people these days.

Well they did, JFK was paved over marsh land just like brookville was.

[Matt Molnar]

Most of those arguments, except for the prisoner issue, were quashed or ignored for the Atlantic Yards project.
An airport has so many variables that affect people for miles and miles around that it can't be compared to any other type of construction project.

You could always use Governor's Island.
Too close to lower Manhattan.

the south end of Roosevelt
There's a bridge in the way, and the river isn't wide enough anyway. Remember Corey Lidle.

Hell ain't nothing happening in the south Bronx.
Too late, hipsters are flocking there.

Well they did, JFK was paved over marsh land just like brookville was.
That was almost 70 years ago, when Queens was mostly farmland, and we were worried about whether we would soon be speaking German and not about whether a family of snapping turtles might have to find a new place to live. :)

[Idlewild]

Yeah but that was back in the late '40's when it was a golf course and EPA didn't exist.

[bonanzabucks]

As for Rikers, we would need to find housing for the 30,000 inmates who live there, and jails are probably the only thing more despised by NIMBYs than airports. Environmentalists would not allow any filling in the bay anyway.

Actually, there are 13,500 inmates in the NYC Department of Corrections penal system. Probably about 11,000 of them are on Rikers. How would I know? I used to compile those statistics when I worked for them! Actually, when I was working for DOC, which was a while ago, the inmate population was about 14K, but I've heard it's gone down to about 13.5K.


You could always use Governor's Island, the south end of Roosevelt or one ofthe many islands scattered throuh out NYC waters to replace Riker's. Hell ain't nothing happening in the south Bronx.

There are already two jail facilities in the South Bronx. One of them is closed and was actually built on an old Staten Island Ferry barge. Yes, it actually does rock with the waves.

Isn't Governor's Island a school now?

[Idlewild]

I was joking about Governor's Island. No one knows what to do with it. I'd sell it to Hugh Hefner or Larry Flynt myself. I guess nobody thinks much of turning the whole of Staten Island into a mega airport?

[Matt Molnar]

I guess nobody thinks much of turning the whole of Staten Island into a mega airport?
SI has some massive hills, natural ones plus the landfill. Might make for some nice Kai Tak-style approaches. :D