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View Full Version : Obama: Laws alone can't stop violence



Midnight Mike
04-26-2008, 08:20 AM
Obama's long term ideas such as parents spending more time with their children & after-school programs is nice, but, that does not help Chicago right now.

You have gangs & even illegal aliens stealing guns, so, stricter firearm laws are not going to be very effective & the people using these guns on the streets are not purchasing their weapons from guns shows.

Concealed firearm permits have been known to bring down crime, but, if there are any doubts, all one has to do is look at Washington DC which has one of the strictest laws in the nations & yet one of the highest gun fatalities. In Texas, which has a concealed firearm law, crime in the state has declined by 20 percent

Sometimes it is much easier to enforce the rules on the books rather than passing more legislation.

What is wrong with saying that some people need to be arrested & put in jail?


Obama said ... passing more gun-control legislation, such as better background checks for gun purchasers.

Is there such a thing as a better background check? The present background checks are conducted by the FBI.


Obama:...Here's an example of something common-sense: The ATF [federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms] should be able to share info with local communities about where guns are coming from, tracing guns that are used in criminal activity. It's been blocked consistently in Congress. As president, I'm gong to make sure we know if guns are being sold by unscrupulous gun dealers not abiding by existing laws. We should know about that.

Police conducting LEGITIMATE police investigations have always had access to the ATF data. What Obama is talking about is the Tiahart Amendment, which would open up these records to everybody, including lawyers looking for a quick lawsuit. If Police have access tot he ATF data, then what is the problem.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/o ... 25.article (http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/914970,CST-NWS-obama25.article)


In a sit-down interview with the Sun-Times, White House hopeful Barack Obama said Thursday he has been following with great concern the gun violence that has plagued the city in recent weeks.

Obama said elected officials can help by restoring federal funding to put more police on the street and passing more gun-control legislation, such as better background checks for gun purchasers. But laws alone can't change things -- some parents have to get more involved in their children's lives, he said.

"Children have to be taught right and wrong, and violence isn't a way to resolve problems," Obama said. "Kids have to be kept off the streets at night. A lot of these kids, unfortunately, they might not have parents at home who are helping to give them guidance."

Obama, who had trouble with gun owners in Pennsylvania and other states, said he has never supported a blanket ban on handguns but favors letting local officials enact gun regulation appropriate for their areas. Banning guns has not always proven effective, he said.

moose135
04-26-2008, 08:37 AM
Is there such a thing as a better background check? The present background checks are conducted by the FBI.
The problem isn't so much the quality of the background check (although there are issues there) it's more about who has to undergo a check. Only federally licensed gun dealers, such as sporting-goods stores or gun shops, are required to conduct background checks. A private seller can sell all the guns he wants to whoever he wants without background checks. There is nothing in the current legislation that defines a "private seller" other than they are "not engaged in the business" of selling firearms, or only make occasional sales. You or I could legally go to a gun show with a crate full of handguns, claim they are my private collection, and start selling them without restriction.

Midnight Mike
04-26-2008, 09:01 AM
The problem isn't so much the quality of the background check (although there are issues there) it's more about who has to undergo a check. Only federally licensed gun dealers, such as sporting-goods stores or gun shops, are required to conduct background checks. A private seller can sell all the guns he wants to whoever he wants without background checks. There is nothing in the current legislation that defines a "private seller" other than they are "not engaged in the business" of selling firearms, or only make occasional sales. You or I could legally go to a gun show with a crate full of handguns, claim they are my private collection, and start selling them without restriction.

Department of Justice survey of 3,959 inmates found that only 2% stated that they had bought a gun used in a crime from a gun show.

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?P ... 0415c.html (http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=/Nation/archive/200804/NAT20080415c.html)


In fact, federally licensed firearms dealers who sell at gun shows must abide by all local, state and federal laws governing gun sales. That includes conducting the required background checks.

The so-called "loophole" involves private sales among individuals. People wishing to sell their own property can make private gun sales -- at gun shows or at any other location -- as long as they don't have any "reasonable cause" to believe the buyer is prohibited from possessing firearms under federal law.

Critics describe these private sales -- which can take place anywhere -- as the "gun show loophole" because gun shows draw willing buyers and willing sellers together and private sales are part of such events.

PhilDernerJr
04-26-2008, 09:05 AM
Moose, I can agree with that, but I feel that's a small percentage of the overall problem.

MidnightMike is right about most gun laws doing nothing to actually deter or prevent gun crime, as street guns will not be affected, and therefore street crime will not, either.

One thing we need to do it to set it up for that law-abiding citizens can protect themselves. However, that kind of gun legislation will not help deter gun crime that is rampant in poor ghettos....where people are not able, for financial or legal reasons, to obtain guns legally, or to secure them properly so they aren't stolen right away.

Only police tactics will change that. Crime in DC will not go down because of any gun laws, but only a good police force and community action. That's it. People act as though guns are the culprit, as if criminals are all going to get their college degrees and become civic leaders if guns weren't around or something.

moose135
04-26-2008, 09:28 AM
Department of Justice survey of 3,959 inmates found that only 2% stated that they had bought a gun used in a crime from a gun show.
You're right - but how many of those guns started out as a legal sale, then found their way to a criminal? Remember the Columbine shootings? http://www.usmayors.org/uscm/us_mayor_n ... rticle.htm (http://www.usmayors.org/uscm/us_mayor_newspaper/documents/02_21_00/friend_article.htm)

New York has some of the restrictive gun laws in the nation, yet guns are readily available. Why? How many of the guns on the streets of NY were purchased legally in another state (Virginia is a favorite spot) and brought to NY? How many were purchased legally, then stolen or lost? Sorry, more guns isn't the answer.

PhilDernerJr
04-26-2008, 09:33 AM
If you follow the path of these guns from legal to illegal hands, you'll find that private sale is not the culprit. You'll find that many never even were in legal hands to begin with. They are smuggled or stolen. I've been a big advocate for the proper locking and storage of weapons, which many do not seem to follow.

And Columbine is way too unique of a situation and does not compare to the disease of street crime.

Midnight Mike
04-26-2008, 09:57 AM
Department of Justice survey of 3,959 inmates found that only 2% stated that they had bought a gun used in a crime from a gun show.
You're right - but how many of those guns started out as a legal sale, then found their way to a criminal? Remember the Columbine shootings? http://www.usmayors.org/uscm/us_mayor_n ... rticle.htm (http://www.usmayors.org/uscm/us_mayor_newspaper/documents/02_21_00/friend_article.htm)

New York has some of the restrictive gun laws in the nation, yet guns are readily available. Why? How many of the guns on the streets of NY were purchased legally in another state (Virginia is a favorite spot) and brought to NY? How many were purchased legally, then stolen or lost? Sorry, more guns isn't the answer.

Moose

Instead of our elected leaders passing more legislation, just enforce the rules on the books. As for concealed weapons permits, it deters crime, not that everybody carry a gun, is that people don't know who is carrying a gun. That fear makes people think twice.

In the UK, breaking & entering is much higher than here in the states, because criminals know that every house in the UK, people do not have a firearm.