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Midnight Mike
02-09-2008, 12:18 PM
Keep an eye on the votes Louisiana, Nebraska, Washington, & the Virgin Islands
are in play on 09-February.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23068044/


A total of 158 delegates was at stake in the Louisiana primary and caucuses in Nebraska and Washington. Caucuses in the Virgin Islands offered three more.

Clinton began the day with a slender delegate lead in The Associated Press count. She had 1,045 delegates to 960 for Obama. A total of 2,025 is required to win the nomination at the party convention in Denver.
__________________

Idlewild
02-09-2008, 08:41 PM
Do our Outlying Islands actually have delagate clout in the primaries? Who is counting their vote, the GOP or DNC or both?

PhilDernerJr
02-09-2008, 11:11 PM
Obama is projected to have won all three!

NIKV69
02-10-2008, 12:11 AM
The Dem convention is going to be ugly. Losing the delegates in Fla is looming large here. Interesting to see how Texas and Ohio plays out along with the super delegates. Wouldn't want to be Howard Dean for the next 6 months.

Idlewild
02-10-2008, 12:57 AM
The Dem convention is going to be ugly. Losing the delegates in Fla is looming large here. Interesting to see how Texas and Ohio plays out along with the super delegates. Wouldn't want to be Howard Dean for the next 6 months.


I'm still confused on why Florida is being penalized. I'm even more confused that all the nominees agreed not to campaign in Florida.

NIKV69
02-10-2008, 02:00 AM
I'm still confused on why Florida is being penalized

Florida and Michigan were stripped of their delegates by the DNC. The moving up of the dates violated the parties rules. Only way for them to count is to petition to have them reinstated which takes you to the convention or just have the states start over and do the vote again. This could be fun!

Idlewild
02-10-2008, 03:01 AM
I'm still confused on why Florida is being penalized

Florida and Michigan were stripped of their delegates by the DNC. The moving up of the dates violated the parties rules. Only way for them to count is to petition to have them reinstate them which takes you to the convention or just have the states start over and do the vote again. This could be fun!

As much the GOP is insane the DNC seems to consistently shoot themselves in the foot.

Midnight Mike
02-10-2008, 05:20 AM
Obama sweeps 3 states,
Huckabee takes 2 (Louisiana, Nebraska)
McCain is in front of Huckabee in Washington, race is too close to call.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/

Midnight Mike
02-10-2008, 09:40 AM
McCain edges Huckabee

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/p ... in10m.html (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politics/2004174796_caucusmain10m.html)


Maine holds their election today, 10-Feb.......

PhilDernerJr
02-10-2008, 10:02 AM
Can someone explain how and why they were stripped of their delgates, and under what authority that can be done?

It sounds as though doing so makes people's votes not count.

Midnight Mike
02-10-2008, 10:24 AM
Can someone explain how and why they were stripped of their delgates, and under what authority that can be done?

It sounds as though doing so makes people's votes not count.

The DNC stripped the States of their delegate counts when they moved up the votes, which went against the schedule provided by the DNC.

The people still voted, it was the delegates that were removed.

The state election boards wanted to feel special & were moving up the voting dates to earlier dates, in defiance of the DNC. States were warned about this, but, the state election boards did it anyway.

Think of it as a baseball, imagine for a moment baseball teams scheduled baseball games that went against the schedule provided by the MLBA,.

PhilDernerJr
02-10-2008, 11:49 AM
But how does this affect the voting or the results?

T-Bird76
02-10-2008, 11:57 AM
But how does this affect the voting or the results?

It doesn't unless the race is so close one of the candidates wants to make a legal issue of it and take it to court saying those delegates should count. Its still a bit to early with how close the race is now to say who'll get it but there are some big states coming up that can sway it.

Midnight Mike
02-10-2008, 12:04 PM
But how does this affect the voting or the results?

Like Tommy said, right now there is no impact.

Later on if necessary they can always hold a caucus for the delegates to be awarded, but, before that happens, I would imagine Howard Dean & the DNC would make a phone call asking one of the candidates to step aside & resign.

Don't forget, John Edwards still controls some of his delegate votes & he can act as the tie-breaker if necessary....

NIKV69
02-10-2008, 03:06 PM
Can someone explain how and why they were stripped of their delgates, and under what authority that can be done?

It sounds as though doing so makes people's votes not count.



Not at all Phil, no alterior motives. The DNC rules are clear and were designed to keep states from making their Primaries earlier and earlier. The DNC rules are clear.


It doesn't unless the race is so close one of the candidates wants to make a legal issue of it and take it to court saying those delegates should count.

Actually it is the states who have been making an issue of this since the beginning. Neither seems to want to back down from having these delegates count and rumors are flying that the DNC has been asking them to hold another vote in the spring. Which the states are balking. Also remember that if the states were to do it again it is a spring caucus and not a primary. Hillary has done terrible in caucuses. The race is quite close and unless something changes this will be continue to be a huge issue since the mindset of the back room deal at the convention is already being dangled in front of us by the media.

T-Bird76
02-11-2008, 09:12 AM
Hmmm so where are the people who said Obama would be dead after Super Tuesday??? I wonder why I don't hear them now.....? Clinton's campign just struck a rock...and with the Potomac states coming up which favor Obama he can begin to take a sizeable lead in the race..Still early to tell but the people are rallying to him.

It was a very impressive showing to for Huckabee again this past weekend.

Midnight Mike
02-11-2008, 10:07 AM
Hmmm so where are the people who said Obama would be dead after Super Tuesday??? I wonder why I don't hear them now.....? Clinton's campign just struck a rock...and with the Potomac states coming up which favor Obama he can begin to take a sizeable lead in the race..Still early to tell but the people are rallying to him.

It was a very impressive showing to for Huckabee again this past weekend.

I didn't hear anybody say that, in fact, everybody has said that it is going to be a close race till the end.....

Obama has been stacking up some wins, which he was projected to win, but, it will remain a close race, some big states are coming up & Clinton will chalk up some delegate votes as well.

Howard Dean (president of the DNC) gave a speech & said that if the race continues until March, he may get involved..

T-Bird76
02-11-2008, 10:08 AM
[quote="T-Bird76":e0e4b]Hmmm so where are the people who said Obama would be dead after Super Tuesday??? I wonder why I don't hear them now.....? Clinton's campign just struck a rock...and with the Potomac states coming up which favor Obama he can begin to take a sizeable lead in the race..Still early to tell but the people are rallying to him.

It was a very impressive showing to for Huckabee again this past weekend.

I didn't hear anybody say that, in fact, everybody has said that it is going to be a close race till the end.....

Obama has been stacking up some wins, which he was projected to win, but, it will remain a close race, some big states are coming up & Clinton will chalk up some delegate votes as well.

Howard Dean (president of the DNC) gave a speech & said that if the race continues until March, he may get involved..[/quote:e0e4b]

Ah some people did say that Mike....on this board in fact. Is the GOP getting a bit nervous their boy McCain might get stomped on in Nov? hehe ;)

Midnight Mike
02-11-2008, 10:17 AM
Ah some people did say that Mike....on this board in fact. Is the GOP getting a bit nervous their boy McCain might get stomped on in Nov? hehe ;)

Tommy

Huckabee would have to win over 80% of all the votes to just tie the delegate vote, at this stage, Huckabee is just a distraction :mrgreen:

T-Bird76
02-11-2008, 10:40 AM
[quote="T-Bird76":4e3a0]
Ah some people did say that Mike....on this board in fact. Is the GOP getting a bit nervous their boy McCain might get stomped on in Nov? hehe ;)

Tommy

Huckabee would have to win over 80% of all the votes to just tie the delegate vote, at this stage, Huckabee is just a distraction :mrgreen:[/quote:4e3a0]

I wasn't talking about Suckabee! I was talking about Obama plowing over McCain. Who really wants a 71 year old as the leader of this nation? Someone I know made a great comment this weekend about his war record, I was rolling...His entire claim to fame is based off of being a piss poor fighter pilot who failed avoding getting shot down, if he didn't get shot down he would just be another former Air Force pilot.

moose135
02-11-2008, 11:13 AM
if he didn't get shot down he would just be another former Air Force pilot.
Hey, hey, hey, he was a NAVY pilot...the Air Force has some standards, you know :wink:

Midnight Mike
02-11-2008, 11:27 AM
if he didn't get shot down he would just be another former Air Force pilot.
Hey, hey, hey, he was a NAVY pilot...the Air Force has some standards, you know :wink:

Moose

That was a good one & just about made my day, gawd that was funny :D

Midnight Mike
02-11-2008, 11:29 AM
I wasn't talking about Suckabee! I was talking about Obama plowing over McCain. Who really wants a 71 year old as the leader of this nation? Someone I know made a great comment this weekend about his war record, I was rolling...His entire claim to fame is based off of being a piss poor fighter pilot who failed avoding getting shot down, if he didn't get shot down he would just be another former Air Force pilot.

What is Obama's claim to fame? A speech that he gave in 2004?

Actually, I think maybe they should use that Continental commercial when talking about Obama & his "change" slogan :lol:

Ok, cheap shots are over, let's leave that to the politicians.....

T-Bird76
02-11-2008, 11:33 AM
[quote="T-Bird76":736e2]
I wasn't talking about Suckabee! I was talking about Obama plowing over McCain. Who really wants a 71 year old as the leader of this nation? Someone I know made a great comment this weekend about his war record, I was rolling...His entire claim to fame is based off of being a piss poor fighter pilot who failed avoding getting shot down, if he didn't get shot down he would just be another former Air Force pilot.

What is Obama's claim to fame? A speech that he gave in 2004?

Actually, I think maybe they should use that Continental commercial when talking about Obama & his "change" slogan :lol:

Ok, cheap shots are over, let's leave that to the politicians.....[/quote:736e2]

Well he didn't let Charlie shoot him down...LOL ;)

adam613
02-11-2008, 11:59 AM
What is Obama's claim to fame? A speech that he gave in 2004?

Yes. And he's only in the Senate because his opponent was into slightly unusual sex. That sort of thing doesn't go over well with Republicans.

The fact that he was able to go from distant second in a Senate race to leading the race for a major-party presidential nomination against a quality opponent within four years should eliminate any questions about his charisma and leadership abilities...

Midnight Mike
02-11-2008, 12:29 PM
What is Obama's claim to fame? A speech that he gave in 2004?

Yes. And he's only in the Senate because his opponent was into slightly unusual sex. That sort of thing doesn't go over well with Republicans.

The fact that he was able to go from distant second in a Senate race to leading the race for a major-party presidential nomination against a quality opponent within four years should eliminate any questions about his charisma and leadership abilities...

Charisma yes, leadership abilities no....

Matt Molnar
02-11-2008, 12:43 PM
What is Obama's claim to fame? A speech that he gave in 2004?
He's a Grammy winner as of yesterday!

Midnight Mike
02-11-2008, 12:48 PM
What is Obama's claim to fame? A speech that he gave in 2004?
He's a Grammy winner as of yesterday!

Oh yeah!!! I forgot about that, he also has a nice voice... :mrgreen:

NIKV69
02-11-2008, 02:13 PM
I didn't hear anybody say that, in fact, everybody has said that it is going to be a close race till the end.....



I said it and still feel that he will lose to Hillary in the nomination. When you boil him down past the fancy speeches he has nothing but the anti Bush stance. It didn't work in 04' and it won't work now. He continues to say what the left wants to hear but doesn't have any plan on how to do any of it. I loved how he told the college students he is going to give them all educations without the staggering loans but in return they have to volunteer themselves to do some sort of crap for the government in the future, oh yea I can see that working.



Is the GOP getting a bit nervous their boy McCain might get stomped on in Nov? hehe



No they aren't in fact they are probably quite glad they are running against another candidate with the same "we just need to change the current administration" platform. It is what will sing the DNC yet again.


Charisma yes, leadership abilities no....



Exactly.

T-Bird76
02-11-2008, 02:23 PM
I loved how he told the college students he is going to give them all educations without the staggering loans but in return they have to volunteer themselves to do some sort of crap for the government in the future, oh yea I can see that working.

What's wrong with this idea Nick???? In fact itís a fantastic idea. I wish I had the chance to get my college degree at no cost by offering to volunteer for the gov't. Oh btw...we already have something similar to this in place...its called the Armed Forces...The Army, Navy, AF, etc....give ten's of thousands of dollars to young adults with the promise of military service. Obama's idea simple expands this to students who may not want to serve in the military but would be willing to volunteer serving the nation in other capacities.

Since you think its a crap idea Nick what would you suggest? Or better yet what is your boy McCain suggesting.....? Oh that's right he doesn't have an idea about higher education...much he he doesn't have an idea about health care either or atleast he hasn't shared it yet.

Idlewild
02-11-2008, 04:26 PM
[quote]I didn't hear anybody say that, in fact, everybody has said that it is going to be a close race till the end.....



I said it and still feel that he will lose to Hillary in the nomination. When you boil him down past the fancy speeches he has nothing but the anti Bush stance. It didn't work in 04' and it won't work now. He continues to say what the left wants to hear but doesn't have any plan on how to do any of it. I loved how he told the college students he is going to give them all educations without the staggering loans but in return they have to volunteer themselves to do some sort of crap for the government in the future, oh yea I can see that working.



Is the GOP getting a bit nervous their boy McCain might get stomped on in Nov? hehe



No they aren't in fact they are probably quite glad they are running against another candidate with the same "we just need to change the current administration" platform. It is what will sing the DNC yet again.


Charisma yes, leadership abilities no....



Exactly.[/quote:9377b]

Well, not being a "lefty" (my first eligible vote was for Reagan in '84 and Bush 1 in '88 & '92) I like Obama because at least he's offering ideas, whether you agree with them or not on how to solve this nation's problems. I agree with him on invading Pakistan to eliminate most of Al-Qaeda and I am certainly a proponent of his health care plan that doesn't rely on taxing our income. All the GOP has offered is "no taxes and have faith". And these are people who are experienced.

NIKV69
02-11-2008, 08:47 PM
What's wrong with this idea Nick???? In fact itís a fantastic idea. I wish I had the chance to get my college degree at no cost by offering to volunteer for the gov't. Oh btw...we already have something similar to this in place...its called the Armed Forces...The Army, Navy, AF, etc....give ten's of thousands of dollars to young adults with the promise of military service. Obama's idea simple expands this to students who may not want to serve in the military but would be willing to volunteer serving the nation in other capacities.

Since you think its a crap idea Nick what would you suggest? Or better yet what is your boy McCain suggesting.....? Oh that's right he doesn't have an idea about higher education...much he he doesn't have an idea about health care either or atleast he hasn't shared it yet.


Tommy his idea though good sounding is not practical. What about the people that are not interested in military service? Who is going to keep track of all of this? Much like all of Obama'd ideas they sound great in theory but when you look at them in practice you see most of them have little chance of working. McCain knows damn well that socialized health care is the fantasy carrort the left is dangling in front of the nation. If you seriously think we can have a health care system like Canada without our taxes going up at least 10% your dilusional. Where is the money going to come from? Maybe the doctors that you gave a college degree for free will open a clinic at no charge? The only solution is to ease the tax burden on busines to bring back the companies that left for third world countries and help the ones that have stayed provide health care to it's employees.



I agree with him on invading Pakistan to eliminate most of Al-Qaeda

How can he? He is already catering to the codepinks by saying he will pull all troops from Iraq, how is he going to sell a war in Pakistan if we are not attacked?


I am certainly a proponent of his health care plan that doesn't rely on taxing our income

Ok, so if the patient isn't paying, and no taxes are used exactly who is paying the doctor?

moose135
02-11-2008, 09:12 PM
If you seriously think we can have a health care system like Canada without our taxes going up at least 10% your dilusional.
A few facts about health care costs in the US. See the link for full details and sources: http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml

- In 2005, health care spending in the United States reached $2 trillion, and was projected to reach $2.9 trillion in 2009. Health care spending is projected to reach $4 trillion by 2015.
- Health care spending is 4.3 times the amount spent on national defense.
- In 2005, the United States spent 16 percent of its gross domestic product (GDP) on health care. It is projected that the percentage will reach 20 percent in the next decade.
- Although nearly 47 million Americans are uninsured, the United States spends more on health care than other industrialized nations, and those countries provide health insurance to all their citizens.
- Premiums for employer-based health insurance rose by 7.7 percent in 2006. Small employers saw their premiums, on average, increase 8.8 percent. Firms with less than 24 workers, experienced an increase of 10.5 percent.
- The annual premium that a health insurer charges an employer for a health plan covering a family of four averaged $11,500 in 2006. Workers contributed nearly $3,000, or 10 percent more than they did in 2005. The annual premiums for family coverage significantly eclipsed the gross earnings for a full-time, minimum-wage worker ($10,712).
- Since 2000, employment-based health insurance premiums have increased 87 percent, compared to cumulative inflation of 18 percent and cumulative wage growth of 20 percent during the same period


You're right, Nick, taxes will probably have to go up to pay for "socialized" medicine. Of course, I'm willing to bet that what I save in health care premiums (including both what my employer pays as well as my portion) will more than make up for that. Medicare is one of the most efficient insurance programs, with administrative costs of approximately 2%, compared to double-digit costs for private insurance companies. The current system is broken, and needs to be fixed. That won't happen with more of the same pro-HMO Republican rhetoric.

And no, Nick, easing the tax burden won't bring back companies that left for Third World countries. The only way that will happen is if Americans are happy earning 25 cents an hour.

T-Bird76
02-11-2008, 09:54 PM
Nick are you that closed minded to new ideas? That's what it sounds like to me... You just keep coming up with why we can't do this and that vs stating one fact of what we should do? Your personality fits perfectly into a study I did when I got my Master's called "Cable and Beer, what keeps American's happy."

NIKV69
02-12-2008, 01:10 AM
Nick are you that closed minded to new ideas? That's what it sounds like to me

Not at all. Just not ideas that are thrown out to simply win an election and really have no basis or planning behind them. If Obama can explain to me how he is going to give this whole country health care without our taxes going way up I would love to hear it. I don't just jump on the bandwagon (which you are famous for) like everybody else because someone is shoveling crap to me to make me happy.


You just keep coming up with why we can't do this and that vs stating one fact of what we should do?

I did state a fact but you of course failed to read it. Ease the tax burden on the employer and work with them to provide health care to employees. Would go a hell of alot further than what he plans or what he says. I am not going to have my taxes go through the roof so we can pay half ass doctors to give cut rate care to people with no health care. If you want that just move a little north.


Your personality fits perfectly into a study I did when I got my Master's called "Cable and Beer, what keeps American's happy."


LOL, let me guess you told the class that anyone that doesn't agree with your political choice must sit home in their undwear and drink beer and watch Nascar on cable? Did the teacher give you a gold star? Nice try but as usual you are way off http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-12/905683/jerkit.gif Let me remind you that not too long ago you were running around proclaiming Thompson as our new savior. I have to believe that if Captain Kangaroo ran for office with fresh new ideas you would support him too .

Matt Molnar
02-12-2008, 02:41 AM
After the last two posts I would kindly remind everyone to attack ideas, not people, please.


Now for my $0.02, we are yet again faced with a "lesser of evils" election. I don't particularly like Hillary, Obama, or McCain, but

McCain > Hillary
Obama > Hillary
Obama > McCain

I fear Obama might be too liberal for my liking, but here are a few ideas to consider:
a.) right now he's running for the Democratic nomination, which means everyone has to say things a few clicks to the left of what they might normally say.
b.) if he's elected, as the first Black president I'm not sure he'll want to rock the boat all that much.
c.) if he does, the electorate will flip and install a hyper-conservative congress when the midterm elections come around.

T-Bird76
02-12-2008, 09:42 AM
Well I guess I did get a gold star so to speak...because in order to graduate with my MBA the paper had to be affirmed by three PhD's and published in a sociological journal.

Nick why I supported Thompson was because he was big State's right guy and I still like his ideas. So no need to remind me that I supported him but why would I continue to support someone for President if he's no longer running? I always liked Obama as a person and now as a Presidential candidate. I like his ideas on the following which is why I'm supporting him.

Create the American Opportunity Tax Credit

Support English Language Learners

Make Math and Science Education a National Priority

Invest $150 Billion over 10 Years in Clean Energy

Convert our Manufacturing Centers into Clean Technology Leaders

Convert our Manufacturing Centers into Clean Technology Leaders

Gay rights

Pulling out of Iraq

So Nick can you tell me why youíre supporting McCain? Youíre a Conservative and McCain doesnít hold any of the stereotypical traits of the Conservatives. You say if I flip flop my support but werenít you on the Rudy bandwagon? Dude if youíre going to try to push people up against the wall you should look at your own record as well.

NIKV69
02-12-2008, 11:33 AM
right now he's running for the Democratic nomination, which means everyone has to say things a few clicks to the left of what they might normally say.

Matt if you look at Obama's record way before he considered this run for President he has been "few clicks the the left" which is generous BTW.


Support English Language Learners



Nice considering he couldn't vote for English to be our official language.


Make Math and Science Education a National Priority

Invest $150 Billion over 10 Years in Clean Energy

Convert our Manufacturing Centers into Clean Technology Leaders

Convert our Manufacturing Centers into Clean Technology Leaders

Gay rights


These are all noble, just remember that gay rights will always be a issue handled at the state level.


Pulling out of Iraq

He won't pull out of Iraq, he is just saying that to get elected.


So Nick can you tell me why youíre supporting McCain? Youíre a Conservative and McCain doesnít hold any of the stereotypical traits of the Conservatives

Tommy I am a republican, and if you knew me half as good as you would like to think you do you would realize I am not the beer drinking redneck you are trying to make me out to be. I am not a far right conservative. I support McCain mostly because I feel Obama and Hillary are horrible candidates who are basically catering to the extreme left and codepinks. I am confident that if they get in office they will weaken this country by merely given Al Qaida the impression we are not going to fight anymore. I also feel they will try to turn this country into some socialist society and jack up our taxes to try to keep these empty promises they are throwing out there. I support McCain because I feel he is our best chance to keep not only Al Qaida but the rest of the middle east in check.


werenít you on the Rudy bandwagon? Dude if youíre going to try to push people up against the wall you should look at your own record as well.


Again Tommy I am not the sterotypical conservative, I supported Rudy because I felt he had the most leadership under his belt. If you also know anything about Rudy he was for Gay rights and for Abortion. Hmm Pretty conservative huh? :roll: I am not trying to push anyone anywhere, just merely replying to the baseless personal attacks you resort too whenever someone doesn't agree with what you say.

adam613
02-12-2008, 12:23 PM
I am confident that if they get in office they will weaken this country by merely given Al Qaida the impression we are not going to fight anymore.

Neatly ignoring the fact that the entire source of Al Qeida's strength is the knowledge that we're going to continue fighting...

Matt Molnar
02-12-2008, 12:51 PM
Neatly ignoring the fact that the entire source of Al Qeida's strength is the knowledge that we're going to continue fighting...
In the past they've been emboldened by our retreats, most notably in Somalia.