TSA: Birthdate, Gender Required to Buy Plane Ticket

[Matt Molnar]

TSA plan to gather more data protested (http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/2007-11-29-secure-flights_N.htm)

By Thomas Frank, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON — A government proposal to start collecting birth dates and genders of people reserving airline flights is drawing protests from major airlines and travel agencies that say it would be invasive, confusing and "useless."

The Transportation Security Administration (TSA) wants passengers to give the additional personal information — as well as their full names — so it can do more precise background checks that it says will result in fewer travelers being mistaken for terrorists. Travelers currently must provide only a last name and a first initial.

Airlines say passengers will resist providing more details and that the process will be time-consuming. Read more... (http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/2007-11-29-secure-flights_N.htm)

[PhilDernerJr]

This is a good move. By having birthdays and gender, pre-screening names can be done with more certainty, and catch more people who are dangerous.

I also expect this to decrease the number of people that get picked for 2nd screening just because they have a commonname. The different birthday from the true troublemaker rules you out.

I'm repeating what the article says, but this is good news.

[adam613]

This is a tough thing to argue against, considering that both of those pieces of information can be found on the ID you'd need to show to get on the flight...

I have some issues with the no-fly list in the first place, but this certainly doesn't make anything any worse.

[T-Bird76]

Hmmm I have mixed feelings. While on the surface I think it’s a great idea based on the desired outcomes the article mentions. What I don't like is there are clear privacy issues here that can result in identity theft and that the TSA and DHS's track record isn't so stellar. However I'm resigned to the fact that when we fly we are taking certain chances as with other things our Gov't is involved in so w/e happens happens. I do have one question; will the TSA send me a birthday card now? lol

[Matt Molnar]

What I don't like is there are clear privacy issues here that can result in identity theft and that the TSA and DHS's track record isn't so stellar. However I'm resigned to the fact that when we fly we are taking certain chances as with other things our Gov't is involved in so w/e happens happens.
The corporate world has an abysmal record of losing their customers' and employees' sensitive info, yet we still use banks and go to work. :)

[T-Bird76]

What I don't like is there are clear privacy issues here that can result in identity theft and that the TSA and DHS's track record isn't so stellar. However I'm resigned to the fact that when we fly we are taking certain chances as with other things our Gov't is involved in so w/e happens happens.
The corporate world has an abysmal record of losing their customers' and employees' sensitive info, yet we still use banks and go to work. :)

Not true Matt...When Citibank sent me a letter stating that my personal information might have been comprimised I took my biz elsewhere. The point is we have choices, here we don't and with the TSA's spotty track record why put people's id at further risk? You give them an inch and they'll take a yard next time and want our SSN's. Let them pilot this program first and prove it works before rolling it out nationwide.

[cancidas]

i'm for it, having seen situations where people's names comes up on a certain list and because of thier name it's tough to make a decision if we should let them on a plane. it's already been pointed out that both are already on most govt-issued ids, so it's not like you're pulling teeth to get the info. just remember that the more information you have the better a decison you can make regarding if people should be allowed to fly or not.

[adam613]

The corporate world has an abysmal record of losing their customers' and employees' sensitive info, yet we still use banks and go to work. :)

The problem isn't so much that the corporate world loses sensitive info. It's that everyone who is responsible for determining your credit score has a vested interest in that score being low. Nobody except you wins if you have good credit, so why should banks and credit reporting organizations do anything to allow you to have good credit?

[emshighway]

The airlines have your information not the TSA. The check is done during the reservation process. Expanding the information supplied will reduce the amount of "close hits" which need to be counted as hits. While there is a certain percentage of passengers per flight which automatically get designated for secondary screening the overall amount would be considerably decreased which would also reduce wait times.

As far as TSA's spotty track record to my knowledge there were two incidents in five years, one a hard drive with employee info and the other a contractor with two laptops missing. There is a very good chance the items were taken not for the information contained within.

Bird, I'll send you a card :wink:

[T-Bird76]

Bird, I'll send you a card :wink:

AWESOME!

"Happy Birthday from the TSA" "Your friends with the rubber gloves, now please bend over for your gift."

I like this even less now that it will be the airlines managing this....**** most of the airlines can't manage to delivery a bag on time, now they have to manage this, no wonder why they don't want to do it.

"Sir besides losing your bag, we also lost your identity, we believe its located somewhere in Russia now."

[PhilDernerJr]

The current procedures are changing, for the better, as I said earlier. As it exists, the airlines are held to very strict guidelines by the TSA/DHS in providing this data, or else they airlines face HEAVY fines that the TSA/DHS have no problem handing out.

I actually work closely with this process and the upcoming changes. I've spoken with some government officials about this and I was very surprised at the attention to detail adn brainpower of the DHS team I met. It honestly gave me a lot of confidence in the improvements of homeland security since their rushed conception less than a decade ago.

[emshighway]

Bird, I'll send you a card :wink:

AWESOME!

"Happy Birthday from the TSA" "Your friends with the rubber gloves, now please bend over for your gift."

I like this even less now that it will be the airlines managing this....**** most of the airlines can't manage to delivery a bag on time, now they have to manage this, no wonder why they don't want to do it.

"Sir besides losing your bag, we also lost your identity, we believe its located somewhere in Russia now."

Bird, the airlines manage it now and have been doing it for a long time. All that is changing is more information to lessen the amount of false hits.

[T-Bird76]

Bird, I'll send you a card :wink:

AWESOME!

"Happy Birthday from the TSA" "Your friends with the rubber gloves, now please bend over for your gift."

I like this even less now that it will be the airlines managing this....**** most of the airlines can't manage to delivery a bag on time, now they have to manage this, no wonder why they don't want to do it.

"Sir besides losing your bag, we also lost your identity, we believe its located somewhere in Russia now."

Bird, the airlines manage it now and have been doing it for a long time. All that is changing is more information to lessen the amount of false hits.

EMS my point is with the amount of ID theft we see today another ave that may allow it needs to be very tightly controlled. I'm not against this but this can raise a number of questions in terms of privacy and liability. Lets say I'm traveling on biz, my company books my trip, provides the airline my personal info which btw right now my Corp travel Dept doesn't have right now and somehow my ID is stolen and its traced back to this trip. Who's responsible, perhaps the airline if they lost it but a case could also be made that my company should help repair the damage since they sent me on the trip. This isn't as clear as it looks. Why not simply require ID when traveling, run the ID like we do with passports at the time of check in and see if it gets flagged?

[Futterman]

I actually work closely with this process and the upcoming changes. I've spoken with some government officials about this and I was very surprised at the attention to detail adn brainpower of the DHS team I met. It honestly gave me a lot of confidence in the improvements of homeland security since their rushed conception less than a decade ago.

That's good to hear, Phil. Hopefully we'll see some effective changes in due time.

In a similar vein, I'm reading a book right now by Philadelphia radio show host Michael Smerconish called "Flying Blind: How Political Correctness Continues to Compromise Airline Safety Post 9/11". He makes an excellent argument for profiling...but I digress...

Brian

[PhilDernerJr]

Why not simply require ID when traveling, run the ID like we do with passports at the time of check in and see if it gets flagged?

That is, effectively, what they are doing (or going to do). They just require more information to do it effectively, as IDs are so different (50 states, and international) that the technology doesn't allow such convenience. It's not much different than how it usually is done.

[T-Bird76]

[quote="T-Bird76":57a36] Why not simply require ID when traveling, run the ID like we do with passports at the time of check in and see if it gets flagged?

That is, effectively, what they are doing (or going to do). They just require more information to do it effectively, as IDs are so different (50 states, and international) that the technology doesn't allow such convenience. It's not much different than how it usually is done.[/quote:57a36]

Phil you just made the case for a Federal ID card system. State issued DL's need to go away, one id card linked to a Federal database which shows the state you live and whether or not your licensed to drive is IMO the correct answer. However some State's rights group will complain.

[PhilDernerJr]

A Passport can act as that card, though. Just force people to have passports to travel domestically then.

The information can be gathered any which way, as long as it's accurate at the time that it's transmitted to the DHS.

[T-Bird76]

A Passport can act as that card, though. Just force people to have passports to travel domestically then.

The information can be gathered any which way, as long as it's accurate at the time that it's transmitted to the DHS.

What I'm saying is making a Federally issued id card to replace current state issued ones will not only help solve this problem but create a uniformed id system for the entire country. Passports are to bulky to carry for domestic travel. This system can resolve issues of fake DL's, states not being able to pull information from another state's DL. I think there are so many benefits to a Federal ID program vs. what we have now.

[PhilDernerJr]

Understood, but a driver's license will still be necessary for each state, as that's their own jurisdiction.

Also keep in mind that there are program and technical issues with this stuff.

there's no PROBLEM with the current plan to NEED a federal ID though. It would help for things, but there's no NEED for it when it comes to the plan being put into affect.

[emshighway]

EMS my point is with the amount of ID theft we see today another ave that may allow it needs to be very tightly controlled. I'm not against this but this can raise a number of questions in terms of privacy and liability. Lets say I'm traveling on biz, my company books my trip, provides the airline my personal info which btw right now my Corp travel Dept doesn't have right now and somehow my ID is stolen and its traced back to this trip. Who's responsible, perhaps the airline if they lost it but a case could also be made that my company should help repair the damage since they sent me on the trip. This isn't as clear as it looks. Why not simply require ID when traveling, run the ID like we do with passports at the time of check in and see if it gets flagged?

Because the check of the no-fly and selectee list for the most part is done by the reservation system not at the airport. If they needed to run the check at the airport the ticket counter line may be longer than it is now and there wouldn't be able to do on-line check in to avoid the ticket counter.

I understand identity theft, it happen to me over 10 years ago before it was well known and much easier to get out of. While there may be a risk I believe the risks aren't as great as you think.