Who's responsibility is it to get you to work?

[Alex T]

Hey Folks--

Having a discussion right now with another airline employee. We were talking about commuters and deadheaders. I told him that SWA does NOT gurantee a commuter to their base, and it is the commuter's own responsibility to get to their base on time. He was appauled and said "that is not fair and not right" He stated NWA will oversell a flight for a commuter so he or she can get to their base on time and will deny a revenue passenger to get someone on board. Keep in mind this is only COMMUTING, not Deadheading.

I stated to him that SWA will not cover any expense or responsibility, nor would WN oversell or bump off a revenue passenger to get the commuter to their base. They have the option of riding Flight Attendent jumpseat (like any southwest employee can) but if its full then tough luck, you better hope you get there on time.

The argument is basically I have been saying, the commuter chose not to live at the base they were assigned, and after all it is their responsibility to get there on time, not the airline. I certainly don't expect my boss to have every light green for me, and clear the roads so I can plow through to get to work on time. His side is, the airline needs you at work and will do what they can to get you there if you choose not to live at their base.

Its been back and forth. So I am curious how it is handled at your airline, and what is more fair, based on union or contract agreements?


Comments or suggestions is welcome!

Alex

[T-Bird76]

If you accept a position in a particular location then its your responsibility to be there everyday for work, its that simple.

[nwafan20]

Actually, there is an AIRLINE episode where WN bumps 3 PAX for commuters.

[Alex T]

Actually, there is an AIRLINE episode where WN bumps 3 PAX for commuters.

They were Deadheaders, if they said commuters they shouldn't have.

WN does not accept commuters over revenue at all.

Was this in 2nd season of Airline, I think I know which one your reffering to, can you explain the situation?

Again, if WN did that was VERY stupid of them to do so, unless they were deadheaders and I truly think they were.

Alex

[PHL Approach]

Yea, the PIT guys that travel back and forth from here have a hard time since they are not given a seat. Most of them are thinking of leaving the company since in the near future all PIT crews will be commuting and just make it impossible to get from PHL-PIT-PHL. I think it is BS... but what ya gonna do.

[PhilDernerJr]

I'm a little confused, I have to say. Why would a deadheader have priority over a revenue passenger? May I ask what your definition is of a deadheader?

[nwafan20]

Alex, you might be right. I was just recalling it, I can't quite remember the season and they only made the first on DVD.

[Mateo]

Isn't a "deadhead" per se an assignment to go from one place to another for operational requirements? For example, when NW had the shortlived 320 (or 757, I forget which) base in Tokyo, it was something like a 15-day trip from the MSP base. The MSP-NRT leg to begin was a deadhead, since NW's requirement was for the crew to travel to Tokyo. It's not a trip starting out of DTW, but the pilot chose to live in Minneapolis, in which case, it simply would have been non-revving.

[T-Bird76]

Alex, you might be right. I was just recalling it, I can't quite remember the season and they only made the first on DVD.

Alex prob is right...if it has to do with WN Alex's knows it... Poor boy needs to get out more. Come to NY Alex, Phil and I will take you to a wonderful place called Candlewood :twisted:

[airmale516]

replying to the first post "He stated NWA will oversell a flight for a commuter "

as a nwa employee at lga, i can assure everyone that we will not over sell or make any extra acomidations for commuters online or offline, many times we get challanged at the gate especialy from off line to speak to the pilot etc...and guess where that
usually gets them...u guessed it, no where....

[LGA777]

I have never seen US bump a rev pax for a commuter, however in certain cases for a DH yes. Lets say a Capt doing DCA-TPA calls in sick at the last minute. The DCA crew base has no Capt's left on reserve (they are all flying trips) and crew sched can't find anyone else in DCA to fly the trip. But there is Capt in LGA on reserve sitting at his/her crash pad waiting for the phone to ring. Capt ... in LGA accepts the DCA-TPA trip and hops on the Q33 to LGA. But the 1400 LGA-DCA Shuttle leaving in 10 mins is checked in full and the jumpseats have other deadheaders in them. What makes more sense, take one denied boarding and put them on the 1500 Shuttle to DCA or delay at least an hour or cancel the full A-321 (183 Paxs) from DCA-TPA. I honestly hope that despite all the negative spin on US as of late all of you know what would be done in this case? Hint it's the one that makes sense !

Regards

LGA777

[Alex T]

I'm a little confused, I have to say. Why would a deadheader have priority over a revenue passenger? May I ask what your definition is of a deadheader?

Well the Airline's definition of a DH (DeadHeader) is when the Airline makes you fly to a station to work for them at that said station.

If I was a F/A based in MDW airport, but chose to live in STL. I am considered a commuter when I fly to work/MDW to start my trips. But if as LGA777 said it perfectly, someone calls in sick out of BWI(another WN base) and they cannot get someone to fly but I am willing to do it, they will fly me to BWI, on THEIR time and payroll and I am now being flown to work because they are having me do it. This is considered a deadheader, and they will oversell and bump off a revenue passenger on the STL-BWI flight if needed so as not to cancel the flight out of BWI.

Airmale-- Thanks. I thought that was the case. He works for Skywest but his father is a Captain for NWA and he claims as a commuter or a deadhead NWA would bump off a revenue passenger to get them to work do to their contract and union agreements. I had quite honestly NEVER heard of that in any airline.

Deadheader ONLY refers to Crewmembers but as a Must Ride/Positive Space these go for non crewmembers commuting for work purposes on said airline and will bump revenue passengers also for this as well.

A good example is WN I think forced some people to transfer to LAS from another base to help open the base. WN will commute them to the base, they will not be paid for the commute, but they are still considered deadheaders/must ride and flights will oversell for them also. Same thing that AA did in STL for some Dallas people. They transffered some Dallas folks to STL and they have to commute, not deadheaders but AA will oversell the flight if they cannot get the F/A to STL in time.

I wanted to make sure this was or not followed at other airlines, cause I was appauled NWA would do that to their own passengers for a commuter if it was true.

Alex

[PhilDernerJr]

How many jumpseats are on WN's 737s? What's their minimum and average F/A crew?

[Alex T]

How many jumpseats are on WN's 737s? What's their minimum and average F/A crew?

WN has 6 jumpseats, 2 in the cockpit, and 4 in the plane.

Every WN Aircraft has 3 flight attendents, and any WN employee may ride the 4th one, which is known as "riding 4th"

It is LIFESAVER when a flight oversells, and no seat in the cabin is open, anyone (WN active employee) can sign up for 4th jumpseat one hour before departure at the gate.

Alex

[Smartass Flyboy]

replying to the first post "He stated NWA will oversell a flight for a commuter "

as a nwa employee at lga, i can assure everyone that we will not over sell or make any extra acomidations for commuters online or offline,

Sorry, but as a former NW Crew Scheduler I can tell it is and has been done. The policy is the unable to commute policy and it exists as a side letter to the f/a contract. Basically the f/a has to have a second back up flight that would have them in base by sign in. If they are bumped off their first one or it goes irr op then they call crew skeds and will be booked Y1 for the second flight. There have been times when the flight hd to be OB'd to make it work. Usually done when taking them off unable to comute would cause a cancellation due lack of reserves in base. I have been ordered to OB flights into DTW by my duty manager to avoid cancelling 32 a few times back in the day. As I recall each f/a get's 2 unbales per year. Personally I think it's a crock, especially when I was commuting from LGA to MSP while I was a scheduler.

[Alex T]

replying to the first post "He stated NWA will oversell a flight for a commuter "

as a nwa employee at lga, i can assure everyone that we will not over sell or make any extra acomidations for commuters online or offline,

Sorry, but as a former NW Crew Scheduler I can tell it is and has been done. The policy is the unable to commute policy and it exists as a side letter to the f/a contract. Basically the f/a has to have a second back up flight that would have them in base by sign in. If they are bumped off their first one or it goes irr op then they call crew skeds and will be booked Y1 for the second flight. There have been times when the flight hd to be OB'd to make it work. Usually done when taking them off unable to comute would cause a cancellation due lack of reserves in base. I have been ordered to OB flights into DTW by my duty manager to avoid cancelling 32 a few times back in the day. As I recall each f/a get's 2 unbales per year. Personally I think it's a crock, especially when I was commuting from LGA to MSP while I was a scheduler.

Indeed, I am very surprised at that decision to do so. The argument against it is rather that F/A should have ultimate responsibility in getting to work on time regardless of anything else.

At WN most bases set up a crashpad for commuters who do not live in that city, they fly up the night before generally, and then spend the night, and do their trip.

So were you against the OB'ing for commuters or was it simply considered just a business thing to follow through with?

Alex

[Art at ISP]

There is an interesting side to this debate, as US flight attendants in PIT may be losing their right to commute on SW for free due to some recent incidents where senior FA's griped about junior FA's getting seats while they were denied.

It's amazing that US FA's have to rely on SW to get to work in the first place, but bad behavior has its consequences.

Would anyone know about the outcome of last Wednesday's meeting on the subject?

I also find it shortsighted that US realizes its workforce has to commute and still limits the number of seats between PHL and PIT--I guess there will be even further reductions into the new year.

Then again we're dealing with US......nuff said.

[Smartass Flyboy]

So were you against the OB'ing for commuters or was it simply considered just a business thing to follow through with?

Alex

I was against the OB'ing. I understood why the decision was made and agree tat it was still better than cancelling a full LGW flight, but it still didn't sit wwell with me. I am of the school that commuting is a choice and therefore a commuter has the ultimate responsibility to be there for sign in no matter what. If it means flying in days ahead, too bad. I have done the commute thing, it sucks, but I never missed a sign in. I even had to buy a few walk up tickets in my time to get to work on time.

[Smartass Flyboy]

I also find it shortsighted that US realizes its workforce has to commute

Art, no one HAS to commute. The base was downsized and is soon to be closed, if not already. The choice to commute rather than move to PHL is just that a CHOICE. Every person who has been bumped has the right to move to their new base city, it is not the companies problem they chose to stay in PIT.