VC-380?

[cancidas]

from FlightGlobal:


EXCLUSIVE: US considers Airbus A380 as Air Force One and potentially a C-5 replacement
By Stephen Trimble


The Airbus A380 has attracted interest from the US Air Force (USAF) as a cargo freighter and as a large VIP transport in the Air Force One class, says an industry source.

EADS last summer responded to two separate inquiries by the USAF’s Air Mobility Command (AMC) about the A380, which is a double-decker jet delivered to Singapore Airlines on 15 October after a long delay.

AMC’s first request asked EADS to submit data about the A380F Freighter for potential use as a military airlifter, the source said, adding that the company has submitted a reply and expects an invitation to make a presentation in December to AMC officials.

http://www.flightglobal.com/assets/getAsset.aspx?ItemID=19940
© Gareth Burgess


The request may be linked to the USAF’s ongoing review of a potentially over-budget re-engining and reliability improvement programme for the Lockheed Martin C-5 fleet. Lockheed insists the programme can be accomplished within the current budget, but USAF estimates indicate a 50% to 100% cost growth.

USAF officials were not immediately available to comment.

Separately, AMC also requested data from EADS about three Airbus jets as part of a market survey for “VIP Large Aircraft Recapitalization”, the source said. The survey solicited data about the A380, A340-600 and A330-200.

The USAF may soon need to recapitalize the VC-25 Air Force One and the US Navy also may face similar pressure to replace the E-4 Looking Glass airborne command post. Both aircraft are based on the Boeing 747-200 and entered service in the early 1990s. Many commercial airliners are retiring the 747-200 due to age and fuel inefficiency.

Boeing’s Global Support Systems (GSS) division is aware that the USAF may need to replace the VC-25 with a new model and intends to offer the Boeing 747-8, which features new engines and wings and is scheduled to enter service in 2009.

Retaining the company’s historic monopoly on the Air Force One fleet is the GSS division’s top priority, Boeing officials say.

Recent acquisition contracts show that presidential aircraft fleets are not immune from transatlantic competition. In 2004, the US Navy selected an Italian-British helicopter design – the EH101 -- offered by Lockheed for the next presidential helicopter.

The Lockheed product, which has since faced cost and technical problems, beat a rival bid from incumbent “Marine One” supplier Sikorsky.

AMC’s two separate requests for Airbus jets arrived as EADS prepared a bid for the KC-X tanker contract based on the A330-200 converted freighter. The US Special Operations Command, meanwhile, has previously asked EADS for information about the A400M. Another EADS division, Eurocopter, is supplying the EC145 to the US Army as a light utility helicopter.



thoughts anyone? i don't think it'll ever make it as a VC-25 replacement. washington state would join canada before that would ever happen. as far as a C-5 replacement, doubt that too. can't carry outsized cargo. some people say that carrying pallets will make life easier on the C-5 but once the KC-135 replacement is settled then should that help too? at least that's getting hashed out now.

[flyboy 28]

I must say, the A380 looks even more like a whale in USAF colors. :P

[Matt Molnar]

This is nothing more than a heads-up to Boeing that there are other options when it comes to arge aircraft now.

[Derf]

I did this photoshop of the computer composite of the aircraft before it started construction
http://fromtheflightdeck.com/temp/NYCA/PresA-380.jpg

I like this better!
http://fromtheflightdeck.com/temp/NYCA/AF111.jpg

[PhilDernerJr]

I saw this thread and thought of that A380 photo, Fred. Their rendition is VERY similar to yours. I wonder if they saw it beforehand.

I agree with Matt. This is just a wake up call for Boeing I think. I couldn't imagine AMC going with that.

[T-Bird76]

I don't think there's anything to this at all. The Air Force has to consider other products based on the Gov't rules and regulations when it comes to bidding out for equipment. I have to say though it does look dam good in those colors. I'd imagine the new 747 would take up the roll. Its like the limo's the White House uses, they've been Caddy's for the longest time, the Presidents plane will remain Boeing.

[moose135]

The chances that the USAF buys the A380 are slim and none, and slim just left town. AMC is just doing their due diligence to review all options available.

First of all, the VC-25s aren't going anywhere anytime soon. Remember, the 707s were used for 30 years before they were replaced. The VC-25 doesn't see the kind of cycles a civilian 747 does, and it gets a much higher level of care. Those aircraft will be in the fleet for many years to come, and I expect that when they are replaced, you will see something like the 747-8 (or whatever is next after that). For many reasons, not the least of which are political considerations, you will not see POTUS stepping off an A380-based Air Force 1.

The A380 also doesn't make sense as a cargo aircraft. The reason you have a C-5 sized aircraft is to carry oversized cargo - things like 2 M1-A1 Abrams tanks, 6 Apache helicopters, or the 74 ton mobile bridge. You would not be able to put these types of loads in an A380 through a side cargo door. Smaller cargo can go into the C-17 (it can "only" carry one MBT) or the KC-X (although I don't expect that to be used as a cargo hauler at the expense of its air refueling mission). For troops, the USAF makes generous use of the civilian fleet, so you don't need the personnel carrying capacity of the A380.

I take this as the USAF checking all it's options, and wanting to know the capabilities of the aircraft. There is always the possibility that they contract with a civilian operator to use one, and they need to know what they can do with the aircraft.

[cancidas]

I take this as the USAF checking all it's options, and wanting to know the capabilities of the aircraft. There is always the possibility that they contract with a civilian operator to use one, and they need to know what they can do with the aircraft.

who would they contract? the CRAF carriers in this country aren't ordering the pax version. and FX already said no to the freighter version as well.

[nwafan20]

Was there any ever thought to going to a 2 engine aircraft such as the 777? Think how nice it would be to see a 777-300ER in AF1 colors!

[Tom_Turner]

I guess the question would be, *if*, for arguments' sake, we assume the A380 was the "better" choice on the merits, would it be appropriate to still buy domestic?

Tom

[cancidas]

Was there any ever thought to going to a 2 engine aircraft such as the 777? Think how nice it would be to see a 777-300ER in AF1 colors!


i think the AF cares more about redundancy than looks. how bad would it be to have a VC-777 stuck in some off-the-map airport because it sucked a giraffe into the #1. whats worse, the spare engine would probably be flown in on an AN-124 form the Pratt& Whitney plant.

[USAF Pilot 07]

I don't think there's anything to this at all. The Air Force has to consider other products based on the Gov't rules and regulations when it comes to bidding out for equipment.


Bingo... Got a few friends who are contracting and acquisition officers and kind of explained the whole process of writing contracts and buying stuff... This is nothing more than an attempt to drive down future costs, and let companies know that they can't just walk all over the US Air Force when it comes to cost/time (although they can come very close to it)...

[LGA777]

While there are many reasons for this being an unlikely occurance one to consider even in 10 years there will still probably be a lot of airports in this country and worldwide that although they have never had scheduled 747 service, but they have and can handle the present AF1 with no problem but could not handle an A-380 and the cost of bringing these airports up to A-380 standards would not be justified.

Cheers

LGA777

[PhilDernerJr]

Excellent points!!!