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hiss srq
09-01-2007, 11:09 PM
A few nights ago on the way out the doors late in the evening a pair of USNG troops stopped me on the way out the door to point out a suspicious baggie they had found on the floor in the terminal and we got to talking a little bit about various security issues plaugeing the industry to this date and during the course of the conversation the topic of aviation photography came about.

The lady as there was a male and a female brought up as one councern as we talked that she had a few days ago spotted a "suspicious" fellow down by the glass between the shuttle mainline councourse in the USAir terminal snapping up pics of some of the planes and she felt this was a concern and outside of rules. Right away without controlling myself I began to laugh a bit and she gave me a look like what is wrong with you? Once I releived myself of that chuckle I began to explain to her about it and that it was infact not what I would deem a threat to aviation. I began to explain to her that this is infact a major hobby across the world and in many other places a welcome and endorsed activity by even the airport authority. I did understand where she was coming from though in that she might be a little edgy. I myself when I spot people snapping pics inside the airport tend to approach the individual and try to "feel them out" at work when I happen upon it. Generally I approach in a non threatening manner (duh) and try to ask them their intention in a sort of off the line manner. I usually will aproach them and say something along the lines of "isn't the airbus a beaut?" or maybe toss a refrence to Airliners.net in there. Generally if they seem to get the drift it leads into a good spotting conversation.

Back on track, at first they had a hard time understanding it all but I refrenced NYCAviation and showed them the card I have from the group and began to explain in detail about it and that I agree with them to a certain point. They were very receptive to this and I also aknowladge the fact that they still needed to be vigilant and I endorse it 100% as if they did not ask at least I would be more concerned.

I have even built a reputation with the PAPD and a pretty decent acceptance from most officers about it. Several people in the PAPD are even familiar with anet and our site actually without my introduction. I really walked away from the discussion feeling good and I think they appreciated the fact that I took the time to talk to them about it. I certainly appreciated their receptiveness to everything.

I just wanted to share that experince.

nikon50bigma
09-03-2007, 09:48 PM
Thats good to hear, that they are getting used to us spotters.
Theres a group card for nycaviation?

hiss srq
09-04-2007, 09:07 AM
The post card

PhilDernerJr
09-05-2007, 09:46 AM
We have 4x6 promo cards for the site, that have Josh Akbar's Delta 762 photo from Planeview on the front. I'll give you one bigma the next time I see you.

eric8669
09-05-2007, 11:10 AM
Those postcards are very helpful, I probably hand one out once a week.


Eric

NIKV69
09-06-2007, 01:54 AM
we got to talking a little bit about various security issues plaugeing the industry to this date and during the course of the conversation the topic of aviation photography came about.


How does someone taking pics of planes enter into a conversation about problems with commercial aviation security?


at first they had a hard time understanding it all

As am I the more I read.


I also aknowladge the fact that they still needed to be vigilant and I endorse it 100%

No brainer here. I love the fact that people pick up the phone when they see someone they honestly feel is suspicious. A professional officer of any agency will check our ID and make sure we are not a threat and go about his business. It's an easy equation.

I was talking to Dave Budd about the differences between the NY area airports and LAS. Part of the treat of shooting out west is the fact that you can shoot without the stuff we deal with sometimes in NY. Though I feel it's improving somewhat. I think what most LO wants is not to deal with the phone calls they get. Some feel if they can scare with the "What you are doing is illegal" routine is they can eventually run us all off. Either way for the most part NY is a little more sensitive since we have been attacked and remain one of the prime targets. It's just natural that we would be more scrutinized. The post cards are great but I think they know who we are by now and are just trying to keep people calm. I love the reaction of Tommy's buddy at the mounds as soon as he saw us. It was priceless but serves as a reminder of how some react.

hiss srq
09-06-2007, 10:06 AM
It entered in because they brought it up to me. That is all. We discussed it and I layed out the hobby, refrenced the web sites, whipped the card out and that was that.

moose135
09-06-2007, 10:07 AM
It entered in because they brought it up to me. That is all. We discussed it and I layed out the hobby, refrenced the web sites, whipped the card out and that was that.

Be careful about what you whip out in an airport :wink:

NIKV69
09-06-2007, 12:04 PM
It entered in because they brought it up to me.

Can you clarify a bit. I mean I still fail to see how someone who has a camera is any problem to any agency protecting airports and aircraft. Did they give you any examples?

PhilDernerJr
09-06-2007, 12:12 PM
Nick, there are hundreds of ways it could have come up. Why are you assuming that there was any implications that the guard mentioned it because hiss was deemed a threat?

The guard could have said "unfortunately, some others in my position find photography to be a problem," which would not be wrong.

Nothing wrong happened here, but you just need to start trouble.

NIKV69
09-06-2007, 12:22 PM
Nothing wrong happened here, but you just need to start trouble.



Why am I asking for trouble? I am asking for some clarity for a somewhat (if not totally) confusing post. I just fail to see how two National guard people would pull aviation photography out of the air when discussing national security. Especially when there is no examples given. I know you have fallen in love with this thread since you have found yet another ave to plug your site but as someone who particpates in discussions here I like to stay on the topic at hand. My question was directed at Ryan not you.

PhilDernerJr
09-06-2007, 12:55 PM
Why am I asking for trouble? I am asking for some clarity for a somewhat (if not totally) confusing post. I just fail to see how two National guard people would pull aviation photography out of the air when discussing national security.

Security being what the guards do, and aviation photography is what hiss does. It's called conversation, and it usually go back and forth talking about each others' interests.


I know you have fallen in love with this thread since you have found yet another ave to plug your site but as someone who particpates in discussions here I like to stay on the topic at hand. My question was directed at Ryan not you.

What other avenue? The promo cards? They are almost 2 years old and have nothing to do with this. Or is this an example of your standard diversionary tactic when your arguments are completely baseless?

I responded because you take any non-issue and try to crate some "our rights are being trampled" sentiment. I wasn't trying to answer, but point out that hiss was posting something positive, which you nitpicked to death.

If you don't want others to respond, then use PMs.

emshighway
09-06-2007, 03:27 PM
Yes, someone photographing areas in the airport can be a cause for alarm since it has been proved numerous times that terrorist scout out their targets. The National Guard has the authority to check a possible suspicious action out. If they talk to the person and all works out then it isn't a suspicious incident.

If I see someone standing in an area for an extended period of time and appears to be observing I may go over and ask if they need assistance and feel out what they are doing. It may be totally harmless or lead to something suspicious, it is how they answer that determines this. If you were to answer me "It is my right and why are you trampling my rights" then I will think you are over reacting to compensate for something.

Just like the FlyerWhiners on another site you don't help yourself by jumping to the wrong conclusion and jumping on your soapbox. This does not lend to other people being receptive to you.

Remember LGA, JFK & EWR are run by an authority and technically by such can be deemed private property. You do not have a right to do what ever you want in these areas.

You may want to play advocate and jump up and down but in these cases the squeaky wheel doesn't get the grease, It get put outside the fence.

I think Hiss did exactly right and used education to better the cause.

NIKV69
09-06-2007, 08:25 PM
The promo cards? They are almost 2 years old and have nothing to do with this

Well you guys are the ones who brought the cards into the discussion. Not me.


Or is this an example of your standard diversionary tactic when your arguments are completely baseless?



Whats baseless is how anyone involved in LO discussing problems plagueing the industry involving security would bring av-photo up. It makes no sense. Apart from an officer having to invest 10 mins of his time checking us out you will have to point out how. Yet nobody has.


If you don't want others to respond, then use PMs.



Phil why would I want to use PMs? The thread has been started and people are discussing it. Just because it's not a love fest doesn't give you the right to attack me or anyone who asks the thread starter questions. If I broke a rule then moderate it. If not let us talk. Ryan is a big boy I am sure he can handle it.



Yes, someone photographing areas in the airport can be a cause for alarm since it has been proved numerous times that terrorist scout out their targets. The National Guard has the authority to check a possible suspicious action out. If they talk to the person and all works out then it isn't a suspicious incident.



100% correct. Like I said it's an easy equation. Someone looks suspicious they get checked out. LO is doing their job, we are enjoying liberties bestowed upon us by this country. Why is it a problem plagueing the industry?



Remember LGA, JFK & EWR are run by an authority and technically by such can be deemed private property. You do not have a right to do what ever you want in these areas.



Again you are stating something we have discussed a million times before and we know. I am not asking about that. I am merely trying to understand why a USNG individual would bring up av-photo as an example as a problem.

PhilDernerJr
09-06-2007, 09:01 PM
Well you guys are the ones who brought the cards into the discussion. Not me.

Do you read? I didn't bring anything up. The promo cards were a part of the original post. All I did was explain what it was when someone asked. I didn't show any pleasure towards its use in the way it was used, and that is a HUGE assumption on your part.


Whats baseless is how anyone involved in LO discussing problems plagueing the industry involving security would bring av-photo up. It makes no sense. Apart from an officer having to invest 10 mins of his time checking us out you will have to point out how. Yet nobody has.

You're making the assumption that the guard was complaining about av photography. It wasn't even the point of the post....are you grasping that? Are you even able to grasp that? That's what baseless is. Those details weren't mentioned because there was no problem there. Things come up in conversation millions of ways, but you need to overanalyze and find problems to bring up out of nowhere.


Phil why would I want to use PMs? The thread has been started and people are discussing it. Just because it's not a love fest doesn't give you the right to attack me or anyone who asks the thread starter questions. If I broke a rule then moderate it. If not let us talk. Ryan is a big boy I am sure he can handle it.

Why use PMs? Seriously, do you read what YOU say that I am responding to? I was answering your question. You said that you were asking Ryan a question and not me, so I explained why I replied, and that if you had a question solely for hiss for no one else to reply to, to use PM. All you did here was act as though I explained that for no reason. An excellent example of the circles you try to create in conversation. It's shocking and sad.

As for the love fest, you brought up a sensitive topic of Law Enforcement with aviation photography in a negative light when there wasn't any reason for it, and I responded with similar passion. You act as though my comments were out of left field, when yours were what came from nowhere....since there was not a problem in what hiss posted to begin with.....since it was a POSITIVE experience.

Attacking you? Are you going to act as though you weren't being aggressive in your post towards me? Why are you trying to play the victim, contradicting yourself from your previous posts?

Nick, when I hang out with you, I have a great time. Your humor is off-the-wall, and therefore up my alley, but your politics and discussion on actual topics is downright frightening. You can't seem to stay on a topic, discuss it through, and you just like to attempt to make progress by creating confusing and going against what everyone else says just for the sake doing so.

Aviation enthusiasm is a hobby that has so many different ways of enjoying and practicing it. However, as expansive as it is, you still seem to be so bored as to nitpick posts and find unnecessary debate where there shouldn't be any. It is most unfortunate that you've become the cat lady of the boards, hopelessly trying to create drama wherever you can for no apparent reason.


I am merely trying to understand why a USNG individual would bring up av-photo as an example as a problem.

*sigh* Hopeless.

NIKV69
09-06-2007, 09:18 PM
You're making the assumption that the guard was complaining about av photography

Jesus Phil I am not. I am merely asking Ryan to clarify something in his post. If you are going to post something. Especially something as confusing as that well people are going to ask questions.


Those details weren't mentioned because there was no problem there. Things come up in conversation millions of ways, but yo need ot overanalyze and find problems to bring up out of nowhere.



Well if two people are talking about a certain topic and something comes up wouldn't someone infer it has something to do with it?


you brought up a sensitive topic of Law Enforcement with aviation photography in a negative light when there wasn't any reason for it,

Phil give me a break, all I did was point out that av-photo in no way causes any problems in aviation security. Something that (If you read Ryan's post) you could take the USNG for saying. All I asked Ryan for is any examples that were given. Which still I have heard none. All I got out of his post is that he spent some period of time explaining to someone what we do which IMO is not needed. They know damn well what is going on and don't need Ryan, or you or your post cards to educate them about it.


Aviation enthusiasm is a hobby that has so many different ways of enjoying and practicing it. However, as expansive as it is, you still seem to be so bored as to nitpick posts and find unnecessary debate where there shouldn't be any. It is most unfortunate that you've become the cat lady of the boards, hopelessly trying to create drama wherever you can for no apparent reason.


Not exactly but any drama would be better than the low quality posts that have become prevelant here. I actually agree with you at this point. I am sorry I read this post because not only do I not believe it happened but even if it did it served no purpose.

Tom_Turner
09-06-2007, 09:36 PM
<< Yes, someone photographing areas in the airport can be a cause for alarm since it has been proved numerous times that terrorist scout out their targets. >>

I don't believe it has ever been established that terrorists have spent any significant time taking images of airliners per se.

They've certainly bombed trains all over the world, but it is not illegal to take pictures in the subway. They've certainly used the internet and we can all still use that. Many of them have certainly been Middle Eastern yet there is no profiling per se, many attend Mosques and we still have those.. ...on and on and on... Timmothy McViegh was not only in a Militia he was also in the US Army. People still join the Army don't they?

<< If I see someone standing in an area for an extended period of time and appears to be observing I may go over and ask if they need assistance and feel out what they are doing. It may be totally harmless or lead to something suspicious, it is how they answer that determines this. If you were to answer me "It is my right and why are you trampling my rights" then I will think you are over reacting to compensate for something.>>

I basically agree with this, but you know, there is a line to be drawn. The line of questioning can only reasonably go but so far. What you doing? Taking pictures. Of what? Of this Arch in in Washington Square Park. Why would you do that? I am making a documentary. Who are you going to show this to? etc etc etc..

I realize many folks on this board will not agree with me, but after a certain point is not any of Mr. Officers f*&king business.

<< Remember LGA, JFK & EWR are run by an authority and technically by such can be deemed private property. You do not have a right to do what ever you want in these areas. >>

I often over the years read that I should be reminded to "remember" this... Well, I happen to remember Hari Krishnas at airports, I happen to remember Homeless people taking over Terminal A in EWR for years. I happen to remember its a given that bureaucrats in govt assert their capricious decisions when given a little bit of power over the public they are employed to serve. It's like throwing steak into a dog pound.

Its really too bad resources are wasted on us so often, even by TSA on occasion. Its proof positive there is a lot of work to be done to prevent the next terrorist attack.

Tom

nikon50bigma
09-06-2007, 09:51 PM
Those postcards are very helpful, I probably hand one out once a week.


Eric

To police that stop by, or regular people?


We have 4x6 promo cards for the site, that have Josh Akbar's Delta 762 photo from Planeview on the front. I'll give you one bigma the next time I see you.

Thanks Phil!

PhilDernerJr
09-07-2007, 06:59 AM
It's not been abused, as people like Eric and Ryan know what they're doing, but as a rule of thumb, the promo cards should be used to promote the site, not as a "get out of jail free" card when police situations get hairy. I just want the new guys who might see and get them the for the first time to know its use.

emshighway
09-07-2007, 07:51 AM
Remember one thing, National Guard are not professional law enforcement (no offense). They can be from various walks of life who have chosen to serve their country this way (and I applaud them). The Guard Officer happen to mention that a few days before the baggie incident they saw someone taking pictures and were relating that to an airline person (Hiss) for some clarification. Since it happen a few days earlier then I would have to speculate thats why they brought it up. The only person who would know for sure is the Guard officer themselves. They are there all the time, I suggest you go over and ask for yourself.

NIKV69
09-07-2007, 08:03 AM
I realize many folks on this board will not agree with me, but after a certain point is not any of Mr. Officers f*&king business.


Good point Tom, thankfully it's the exception and not the rule. I still remember the civilian that gave Tommy **** and kept asking questions even after we all ignored him. That will happen I guess.



To police that stop by, or regular people?


I think Eric meant as educating people as to why people shoot and who some of the people shooting around airports are.

SP-LPB
09-07-2007, 08:32 PM
It's not been abused, as people like Eric and Ryan know what they're doing, but as a rule of thumb, the promo cards should be used to promote the site, not as a "get out of jail free" card when police situations get hairy. I just want the new guys who might see and get them the for the first time to know its use.

Phil, I think that those cards, from what I've seen, are used more to identify the hobby and not to promote your site. I've seen many situations like that, recently at the mounds for example. I think they're a good use for those who cannot comprehend confrontations and stand their ground, or at least get out of it wisely and on a good note.

PhilDernerJr
09-07-2007, 11:09 PM
Phil, I think that those cards, from what I've seen, are used more to identify the hobby and not to promote your site. I've seen many situations like that, recently at the mounds for example. I think they're a good use for those who cannot comprehend confrontations and stand their ground, or at least get out of it wisely and on a good note.

I completely see your point, but ultimately, it's a promo (promotional) card. It's main and original goal is/was to promote the website. None of its text on the back explain the hobby, and it's just got a very nice photo on the front. The site itself, and us as its members, can educate those who are not aware of the hobby to develop an understanding of what it is and what we do, and ultimately convey that we are not a threat.

Not that you necessarily said you would or that you have, but if someone decides to use the card by giving it to people who are giving you a hard time, then it is being used wrong. The promo card is not a badge to show your affiliation with the site or as a supplement for describing the hobby. It is to get people who show a positive interest in what we do to visit the site.

If someone think that what you are doing is a threat and they aren't open minded enough to grasp that through normal conversation, then the card isn't going to accomplish that either, and it will only add the site to the spotter's name or description if a report is made to the police. Then I, too, will get a visit from whomever in law enforcement might be sent out to investigate...no matter how silly or unwarranted such an "investigation" can be. And that is not far-fetched.

My goal with NYCA is for it to be a community for everyone. Though I have an ad here and there, I don't consider this a business for me, and I certainly am not feeding myself from it right now. My goal is to serve enthusiasts both in an out of New York, and to educate people about the hobby.

However, when it comes down to it, it's my name on the ownership of the domain and I'm in control of its content. There is a liability for no one here but me should a spotter do something illegal and he/she associates himself/herself with the site. Should something happen and through the promo card, or saying he's in "x" spot because he saw a map, read a post on the boards, etc., even if it's something someone else posted, it is my responsibility. The same goes for lawsuits. I've already come close to trouble in the past and it comes more easily than some of you might think.

Perhaps one day in the future NYCA will have an office and I'll have cards made for everyone to give out to those who aren't getting it and tell them to come visit me at the office anytime to learn. But we don't have that yet. I ask that all of you respect that for me, and use the cards with discretion.

All of you have respected that and I trust that you will continue to do so, which is why I hand out the promo cards in bunches like I do.

If some of you feel that there needs to be something that can be given out to the general, curious public in those situations in order to educate those who don't get it, then let me know. If you happen to want NYCA to represent you as a spotter in that respect, then we can work together to have something made that helps bridge that educational gap with society.

Also keep in mind that the schedule in my life has recently changed for the better, and we will now be able to move forward with new features, new sites, and programs, both that we've thought up and that you've asked for to help educate people and to continue to make the hobby more comfortable and fun for everyone to practice.

Delta777LR
09-07-2007, 11:55 PM
the post card is helpful to have when approached by law Enforcement? I have the DL767-200 postcard i got from last year at the Marriot model display show i might start carrying it around for now on.

PhilDernerJr
09-08-2007, 12:00 AM
Sergio, please read my post. It's the other way around, and I ask that people DON'T do that.

NIKV69
09-08-2007, 08:43 AM
the post card is helpful to have when approached by law Enforcement?


Guys, when a law enforcement officer approaches you just tell them what you are doing and show them your ID. If your at a place that is private, for example Costco and they want yout to leave then leave quietly. If it is not then you will be able to continue. Not a hard concept. If the questioning gets to the point where they ask you what you do with the pics then you can tell them it's a hobby and then show them the postcard if you want. Simple. You don't need anything helpful to show them, just your ID. You are doing nothing wrong. Have a nice attitude and a smile and you will be fine. If you do get a officer that lies and tells you that you are doing something illegal and is nasty get his badge # and name and leave quietly. You can pursue it at a later time.

MarkLawrence
09-08-2007, 09:46 AM
Well put Nick! that is simple, yet, exactly what is needed - this has been my experience when I've been in NY and the airports I spot at in Florida.

emshighway
09-08-2007, 10:38 AM
the post card is helpful to have when approached by law Enforcement?


Guys, when a law enforcement officer approaches you just tell them what you are doing and show them your ID. If your at a place that is private, for example Costco and they want yout to leave then leave quietly. If it is not then you will be able to continue. Not a hard concept. If the questioning gets to the point where they ask you what you do with the pics then you can tell them it's a hobby and then show them the postcard if you want. Simple. You don't need anything helpful to show them, just your ID. You are doing nothing wrong. Have a nice attitude and a smile and you will be fine. If you do get a officer that lies and tells you that you are doing something illegal and is nasty get his badge # and name and leave quietly. You can pursue it at a later time.

Is this the same Nick :?

Nick is right on the mark. While I can understand the postcard adds some legitimacy to your discussion it should not be flashed as your permit to be all areas.

hiss srq
09-11-2007, 06:18 PM
Look Nik, the card was used to point out the fact that hobby groups like this do exist and not everyone is out to do evil. Not every last thing needs to become a debate and to be honest I am sorry I brought it up because it seems your view is THE ONLY VIEW sometimes and that quite frankly becomes a bit of a frustration.The troops brought up national security because they sit around for the purpose of presence and cannot do anything in terms of law enforcement action to right the wrongs they see in their day to day at the airports around NY. Aviation photography became a part of the topic because one of the members felt it could be an issue in airports and I clarifyed that it is indeed a very large hobby citeing NYCA Anet and JP in the conversation as well as useing the post card as a sort of proof that these groups exist. I would never use it as a scape goat if something were to come up and expect that no one else would either. I thought the post card was a good way to present an example of the largeness of the hobby and that was that.

To the other point issued here about questioning photography. As a person who partakes in it myself I see no issues. I do when I see people shooting in the airport approach them though and generally in a positive manner just to kind of see whats going on and generally these people share the same passion as we do and I strike up a conversation about it with them. I see that as totally fine to do. I did not intend to make this a massive debate where people rip on each other and debate every last word of every last sentence. Last I checked this is a site for shareing of the hobby and making new freinds who share the same passions.

With my $.02 I have just put up I will now return to vacation and talk to everyone again soon.

NYCMedic
09-11-2007, 08:50 PM
Remember one thing, National Guard are not professional law enforcement (no offense). They can be from various walks of life who have chosen to serve their country this way (and I applaud them). The Guard Officer happen to mention that a few days before the baggie incident they saw someone taking pictures and were relating that to an airline person (Hiss) for some clarification. Since it happen a few days earlier then I would have to speculate thats why they brought it up. The only person who would know for sure is the Guard officer themselves. They are there all the time, I suggest you go over and ask for yourself.

I know a bunch of Police Officers that are guardsmen, in fact a few are PAPD officers. So many of them are professional LEOs.

NIKV69
09-11-2007, 10:26 PM
Not every last thing needs to become a debate and to be honest I am sorry I brought it up because it seems your view is THE ONLY VIEW sometimes and that quite frankly becomes a bit of a frustration.

No not really Ryan, the frustration lies in trying to read your posts. Your lack of punctuation and grasp of the English language makes reading your posts extremely difficult. Many here have asked you nicely to try to improve this and it has fallen on deaf ears. I simply asked you to clarify something that would have cleared up something I had a hard time understanding. Not to mention I feel this post to be low quality. I thought this forum was to post police encounters when they approached us. Not when we approached them and told them the brutally obvious. I guess the logical thing from here on out is to just avoid your posts.

hiss srq
09-11-2007, 10:44 PM
So be it, I figured the topic would best tie in here personally. If you feel that it was an issue than fine thats one opinion. Either way it is here and has not been moved, moderated or deleted which would generally mean that those who are in charge of that feel that this is the place for it to be.

PhilDernerJr
09-12-2007, 11:09 AM
Nick, hiss' spelling and grammar had nothing to do with the topic here, nor did it create any issue in understanding his story. In fact, it was written pretty well, and hiss has made a good amount of effort in improving his post quality.

It's a great shame that you form a rebuttal going after the person in such a way that has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

SP-LPB
09-13-2007, 09:55 PM
Nick, hiss' spelling and grammar had nothing to do with the topic here, nor did it create any issue in understanding his story. In fact, it was written pretty well, and hiss has made a good amount of effort in improving his post quality.

It's a great shame that you form a rebuttal going after the person in such a way that has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

You allowed Brian to do it in a thread a while back...

T-Bird76
09-13-2007, 10:54 PM
[quote="Phil D.":f2e24]Nick, hiss' spelling and grammar had nothing to do with the topic here, nor did it create any issue in understanding his story. In fact, it was written pretty well, and hiss has made a good amount of effort in improving his post quality.

It's a great shame that you form a rebuttal going after the person in such a way that has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

You allowed Brian to do it in a thread a while back...[/quote:f2e24]


Jakub what is you're point, besides not having one. Nick isn't stating any facts about Ryan's first post. The post in fact is far more readable then many of his first posts which even I poked fun at. I'm sorry but Nick's statement was out of line and so is your's. You seem to think very high and mighty of yourself in many of the posts you place here with little regard to others.

PhilDernerJr
09-14-2007, 04:48 AM
Jakub, please link to my allowing that. I'd like to see the reference.

NIKV69
09-14-2007, 10:56 AM
You allowed Brian to do it in a thread a while back...

Yep, Your right. So much in fact the day the A380 came in Ryan was looking for Brian to dicuss it with him.


Jakub, please link to my allowing that. I'd like to see the reference.





Why, it's a known fact that it happened. You know it. Ryan can attest to it. I don't see the point. As I said I will just ignore further posts by Ryan. Jakub was making a point of a double standard that does exist.

PhilDernerJr
09-14-2007, 11:04 AM
First, I don't file web arguments in my head. Don't tell me what I know and don't know Nick. You don't know what I read and don't read.

Also, if someone does or says something that's offensive to someone, email [email protected], and we'll address it. I can't delete things that I don't see or don't know if it bothers other people.

Nick, if you have a problem with the site, you don't have to come here. Press the "logout" button at ANY time.

NIKV69
09-14-2007, 11:17 AM
First, I don't file web arguments in my head. Don't tell me what I know and don't know Nick. You don't know what I read and don't read.



Never said you did. All I was saying is that Jakub raised a valid question. The thread and subsequent reply from Brian did exist. If you want to tell us you didn't see it fine. It's just funny how when I raise a question about someones post I am vilified yet when someone else does it doesn't raise an eyebrow. Hmmmm.

PhilDernerJr
09-14-2007, 11:31 AM
[quote="NIKV69"]Never said you did.[quote]

You said "You know it."

It raised an eyebrow from me because I was here, paying attention to the thread, and your comments were uncalled for and I call tehm as I SEE them. So don't give me **** as though I've not done my job here properly.

NIKV69
09-14-2007, 11:40 AM
So don't give me **** as though I've not done my job here properly.


Ok, so the official story is you had no idea the thread or the reply existed. Ok. Is it too much to ask for YOU to search and find the thread? I would appreciate it if you would and comment on it. As for the job you do here it has always been top notch Phil.

PhilDernerJr
09-14-2007, 11:52 AM
If someone here has an issue, they are more than willing to link me to it, instead of being vague and expecting me to search through thousands of posts to jsut come to the conclusion that what you said HERE was still inappropriate.

If the best defense is deflecting it elsewhere, then we all know what's up.

NIKV69
09-14-2007, 12:33 PM
instead of being vague and expecting me to search through thousands of posts to jsut come to the conclusion that what you said HERE was still inappropriate.

If the best defense is deflecting it elsewhere, then we all know what's up.


OIC, so it never happened. Typical. Well Mr Admin it did happen and everyone here knows about. At least Ryan, myself, Jakub and the others that discussed how mad Ryan got after he read it. It's moot because we do know whats up. You can't explain why I get attacked and Brian didn't after saying the same exact thing. The only deflecting is by you. See, the post was made and that is a FACT. I dont need to find it. In fact you could have found it by investigating probably 5 mins of your time. Yet you didn't. Probably because if you found it you would have to give an explanation. Jakub raised a solid point. In fact I tell you what, I will leave it on the table if you want to find the post. (Thought I bet it has been deleted) You can look into it and get back to me. Either here or via PM.

T-Bird76
09-14-2007, 12:42 PM
Nick the entire point of what was being said is that you changed the entire subject of this thread into something about Ryan's grammar. The fact is his original post was well written out and you came out of left field saying it was gibberish and Phil was right to point it out. I remember the post that Brian poked fun at HISS over and that post was written on a first grade reading level, it was horrible. Ok perhaps Brian shouldn't have said what he said but its how many months old now? Ryan's posts have improved a great deal. Honestly at this point the entire matter should be dropped and all parties should just move on. I wonder what visitors to the site and to this forum and thread are thinking right about now?

PhilDernerJr
09-14-2007, 12:53 PM
Edited out, as per Tommy's appropriate comments. Sent via PM.

Topic locked. Please use PMs if people have questions or comments.