Dealing with a major equipement change for an airline

[mirrodie]

So just imagine, you have an F or J seat in TN, you are ready fo fly out to Papeete or further to Sydney and you come to this. You are expecting a certain seat and a certain product and yet you get this:

http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=6042295

Now most of us would LOVE it, I know, I know. But isn't that a major switch in the product expected?

I mean, if you fly transcon for business and you choose AA or UA solely for their J product and get stuck with this?

Or it you love jetblue, you are completely sold on leather setas and TVs and you get this?? A world Dc-10?

I am curious if most passengers would even take notice.

[hiss srq]

I guess for the average traveler that would be a bit of a let down. To me when I travel forign I try for the forign carrier unless I am going free of course and it is my beleif that the flight is part of the overall experince.

[Iberia A340-600]

It tends to be quite a frequent occurrence but I believe some airlines offer compensation to most business and first passengers when an event like this happens.

Not that it matters but the flight was actually coming in from CDG. :)

[PhilDernerJr]

It can be rough for pax when they show up to an aircraft expecting on thing, and getting another. I see this first hand every day.

Airlines will hire a charter airline for subservices, and it can affect the experience. I once worked a few flights for JetBlue during the Valentine's Day fiasco, and many pax were disappointed that they would not have TVs on the flight that they were put on because it was not a JetBlue aircraft.

You explain the situation and apologize. You say along the lines of "I'm very sorry, but JetBlue hired us because their priority was to get you where you wanted to go as fast and as adequately as possible. Certain in-flight amenities might be sacrificed, but our goal is to get you home safely. I understand that JetBlue will be offering some credits to passengers for the inconvenience. Let me know if there is anything that I can provide for you to make your flight better, and I'll be sure to do that."

I said that many many times during those 4 flights I did for them. Most people accepted it and were appreciative. Considering the situation, I thought many of these people were lucky to even be getting on a plane at all considering how messed up the B6 operations had gotten. Some didn't want to hear the explanation, as no level of logic or help would have cured their frustrations....and I can't really blame them in certain aspects.

Air Jamaica, for example, has hired multiple airlines this season for subservices. In fact, I would almost go as far as to say that half or more of their JFK ops are operated by 757s from other airlines.

[Nonstop2AUH]

This apparently happens kind of often to airlines that have either small fleets or frequent labor or mx issues. I know there was a flap not long ago about BA bringing in a Euro Atlantic 767 charter to cover for certain flights, the First and Club pax were particularly upset IIRC as they would have been expecting flat beds, IFE, top notch catering etc.

I had an interesting firsthand experience with this about 10 years ago, again with BA. They were having some sort of strike or labor dispute that was grounding certain flights, and I was surprised to show up at EWR to find an American International Airways Tristar waiting for me (in high-density all-economy configuration). The BA ground staff were going out of there way to point out the particular aircraft had formerly flown for them because I think many people were uneasy about it, especially since it carried the same livery as a Kalitta freighter. It was a little tight onboard but it turned out to be last time I ever got to fly an L-1011 so while it was uncomfortable at the time, I'm now kind of glad about it.

[Ari707]

I had it during the Valentine day ice storm on B6 my flt to MCO was cxl'ed and we were all put on a Ryan Air B757 at 1:30am the only words from my sleeping 7 yr old daughter as I put here in the seat, she looked with one eye and said where are the TV's?,....

[adam613]

We were just talking about this during the spotting outing this past weekend...something about hearing a callsign along the lines of "JetBlue 4413 heavy" on liveatc :)

[PhilDernerJr]

North American 757s and Omni DC-10s were the aircraft operated during that incident that used the heavy callsign for JetBlue. I don't think that Ryan's planes get it.

I also heard a lot of chatter on the radios, people asking where this "JetBlue" plane was. The pilots had to keep saying "We're 'x' airline, operating for JetBlue."

[Art at ISP]

Substitutions are annoying. I know when I was still flying US, they would sub 319's for 321's or 320's regularly-they considered those types completely interchangeable, and didn't seem to care about ticking off 4 rows of customers booked in F. My workaround was to always book seats in the first three rows--preferably row 2-so I would not be affected if there was an equipment change. Just my take on the issue.

Oh and Mario, you're supposed to be a spotter professionale dude--it's an MD-11 :)

[Nonstop2AUH]

Question for those here in the business and/or who know the answer; what is the process for lining up a sub from another operator? Obviously, if it's in house it's probably just an aircraft assignment, dispatch sort of thing. But when you have to go outside to Omni, World, Ryan, etc., who makes the call? How much lead time is required? How is it decided what type is needed? How is it paid for? That kind of thing. And lastly, since someone mentioned it, what is the regulation about the callsign? It would seem more sensible, especially for visual reasons, to use that of the operator (i.e. so tower and other pilots aren't looking for the "JetBlue heavy").

[PhilDernerJr]

These decisions are often made by Operations Controllers, who usually receive the original phone call or email from the customer.

They relay the message and coordinate with every other department in the airline to make sure that everything can come together....is there an aircraft available? Do we have pilots available? Flight attendants? Can the airports requested handle our aircraft (runway length, facilities, etc)? Do we need to send a mechanic or ground supervisor along? How will fuel/catering/lav service/water service/cleaning be taken care of and paid for in the other stations?

Decisions about aircraft are made on the demands of the request. How many pax will be flying? How much cargo? How much range is needed? Maybe the demand is for only a few pax, but the only aircraft type available is of a much larger size,s o that one would be sent.

As for lead time, it can be as quick as a couple hours, assuming that there is enough crew on short reserve and an aircraft ready to rock and roll. Certain requests just fall into place. Others can't be filled for various reasons.

The charter airline will usually take on the callsign of the charter company....assuming that the customer is an airline. If it's a travel company, the chartered airline can have their own callsign. Military charters use the callsign "reach" as many of you know, but the charter airline will use their own name internally.

Let me know if you want me to expand or if you have any more questions.

[PhilDernerJr]

Going back to the original question about expecting one service and receiving another...

...keep in mind though every-seat TVs and chairs can be hard to replicate, the catering and other service can often be provided to pax on the chartered aircraft. Sometimes you'll even see flight attendants from the original airline working alongside the charter's.

[mirrodie]

Oh and Mario, you're supposed to be a spotter professionale dude--it's an MD-11 :)

Oh I know, I didn't even care to look at the exact type but was floored by such a drastic equipement change.

Phil, I would think that it takes a bit of time to get such an equip swap done. It doesn't occur without some forethought and planning, right? So in that right, the airline knows it has a major change coming, do you feel pax booked for that flight should be told ahead of time?

I mean, if I were booked for the 14 hr JFK-PPT or 6 hr JFK-CDG, and I had lie down flat F seats or J seats booked on the expected A343 and I got this World MD11, not knowing anything of hte amenities onboard, I'd probably be upset.

And Art, I understand your woes, but at least they are swapping US Air equipement for US Air equipement ;)

[PhilDernerJr]

Good question, Mario.

The thing to remember is that the subservice is happening because the airline has no other options to get their pax to their destination....which is really the main goal. If passengers want to be optomistic about the situations, they can be happy that arrangements were made so that they weren't stranded. Better to sit in a non-lie flat business class seat than not going anywhere, right?

My own personal opinion is that passengers should not be notified, even though there is often not enough time to do so anyway. They are basically paying to get from one place to another and aren't really being inconvenienced in any way. Unless there is some special IFE (like B6) then they should get a partial credit. As for business or first class, they can be accommodated on many charter aircraft as well. Maybe not as nicely, but again, credits can be given and it's better to get to where you want instead of being stuck

Subservices can literally happen in another hour. Just going through what I know in my head, as long as the plane is already at the needed station and doesn't need to reposition, the only thing you'd have to wait for is pilots. The plane can be cleaned and dressed, flights plans worked out, payments plans arranged, arrangements at forward stations, fueling and all of that within two hours.

[mirrodie]

Credits are what I guess I am alluding to then. Though I agree the goal is getting there, I bring up the point since I know some travelers will pay the $$$$ difference in fare for larger seats. if you are buying seats, I guess credit shold be expected.

I consider myself lucky though. Having spent 290K miles for a pair of F class seats to TN, those lie flat seats were key to comfort on the trip. However, if we were changed to this type of aircraft, I'm pretty sure credit, for mileage tickets, would not be given for the trip.

Thanks though. I learned a lot in the thread.

[Nonstop2AUH]

Thanks Phil, great answer. I guess it never takes more than a few hours to position in a replacement aircraft in as much as most of the charter operators I can think of are geographically towards the middle of the country. Since it was mentioned that Air Jamaica has been chartering in alot of service this summer, I wonder if anyone keeps statistics on who the heaviest users of outsourced equipement subs are. As for not getting the amenities the premium pax paid for, I guess this is one of those situations where we are reminded that at the end of the day, your fare pays primarily for transportation and everything else is just sort of a gift.

[PhilDernerJr]

Yes, Air Jamaica has been doing a lot of subservices, mainly using Ryan International and North American for several flights a day for each airline. Obviously, they get a big increase of vacation traffic in the summer months and are in transition with their fleet and needed some help.

I understand it's actually working out very well.