New York passes 'passenger bill of rights'

[Midnight Mike]

New York passes 'passenger bill of rights,' first of its kind in US
Tuesday August 7, 2007

The New York legislature passed and Gov. Eliot Spitzer signed into law last week a "passenger bill of rights" outlining requirements for airlines during extended ground delays, making the state that is home to busy New York JFK and LaGuardia the first in the US to act on passenger complaints of poor customer service.

Largely in response to the much-publicized incident in which JetBlue Airways passengers were forced to stay on parked aircraft at JFK for up to 10 hr. during an ice storm (ATWOnline, Feb. 21), the new law claims to cover flights at New York airports and mandates fines of as much as $1,000 per passenger for carriers that fail to comply, although airlines question whether it is enforceable under federal law.

The law requires carriers to provide food, water, clean restrooms and fresh air to passengers stranded on aircraft for more than 3 hr. It also requires airlines to provide passengers with a phone number to register service complaints and establishes an "office of airline consumer advocate" within the New York state government.

"This law establishes much-needed consumer protections that will help guarantee greater passenger safety and comfort when severe delays impact their travels from New York airports," Spitzer said. New York State Sen. Charles Fuschillo, the bill's primary sponsor, added: "This first-in-the-nation law will ensure that stranded passengers are. . .not held hostage on delayed flights without basic amenities."

An ATA spokesperson said the organization is "disappointed" by the new law and believes it is "preempted" by federal statutes, adding, "We will review our options, including possible legal challenge."

The Coalition for an Airline Passengers' Bill of Rights, which is lobbying the US Congress to include passenger rights provisions in FAA reauthorization legislation, praised "New York's tough new airline passenger rights law" and called on Congress "to finish the job for all travelers nationwide." The group wants Congress to mandate that airlines allow passengers to leave aircraft after a ground delay of more than 3 hr., something the New York bill does not do and that carriers have opposed strenuously.

"Legislating something with fixed time limits is just unpractical in terms of day-to-day operations," Delta Air Lines COO James Whitehurst told reporters last week in Washington.

[HPNPilot1200]

Quite rare, but from a legal standpoint, I would be inclined to agree with the ATA spokesperson that the new law is preempted by federal statutes.

As I interpret it...as evidenced by the recent AOPA law suit (http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2007/070802ny.html) against the state of New York over the law requiring a background check for student pilots in N.Y. (passed by Former Gov. Pitaki), the state has no jurisdiction. As far as I'm aware (though I have not yet received an official legal opinion), when I act as PIC of an aircraft, I am only subject to federal (FARs) and/or international laws (ICAO regs). No where have I seen a state law that prohibited some aspect of flight that hasn't been shot down via legal action.

Now from an airline passenger standpoint, it sure does suck to be stuck on an airplane without certain basic items (food, water, restrooms, fresh air) but nothing will really happen until something is introduced into the FARs so airlines are legally bound by federal law. I would doubt JetBlue would continue making the same mistake again for the sake of bad PR, but you can never be certain.

We'll just have to see where this goes.

[T-Bird76]

Another example of how dumb our Gov't is and how the problems facing today's airlines are being blamed on the airlines and not the real criminal.....the FAA. The airlines are in business to respond to the demands of the customer and the economic growth of the country. The FAA has been for decades delaying improving our ATC system and now it’s catching up. Planes sitting on the ground because of WX and congestion delays aren't the fault of the airlines but are the fault of a 30+ year old system we are using. I don't think any airline wants their planes on the ground burning fuel screwing up their schedules.

Its interesting this comes up now because I just had what would have been a 3 hour imprisonment avoided. A little over a week ago I flew to LAX from ISP via BWI on WN. We got delayed an hour because of WX in BWI. After we boarded and taxied out the Capt said there was a ground hold but they were working with ATC and WN Dispatch to reroute the plane in a manner that they could get to BWI without further delay. The Capt worked out a route that took us west then south at only 6000 feet the entire way. Yes it was a longer then a normal flight to BWI and you knew we were flying slowly because the nose was up the entire flight but the point is we got there. If WN simple took the ATC delay we would have been sitting on the ground for three hours.

IMO our Gov't needs to kick the FAA in the ass and get things moving, perhaps disolve the FAA all together. The fact is air travel is the life blood of our nation's economic growth, the ability to travel and serve customers is not a nice thing to do but an absolute MUST in today's world.

[LGA777]

Tom, the reroute at 6000 feet or a similiar altitude is done more than many might realize at my carrier for short segments in the NE, in particliar the Shuttle from LGA-DCA. It is usally not offered by ATC but sometimes granted at the request of Dispatch personell in our Operations Control Center. You where fortunate that WN had the foresight to request that.

Cheers

LGA777

[Midnight Mike]

Another example of how dumb our Gov't is and how the problems facing today's airlines are being blamed on the airlines and not the real criminal.....the FAA. .

The FAA can only recommend what must be done, it is up to the various branches of Government to get it done.

Now if the airlines are growing faster than the infrastructure can handle, then there are going to be delays.

http://www.faa.gov/about/mission/activities/

The role of the FAA

Summary of Activities
We're responsible for the safety of civil aviation. The Federal Aviation Act of 1958 created the agency under the name Federal Aviation Agency.

We adopted our present name in 1967 when we became a part of the Department of Transportation.

Our major roles include:
Regulating civil aviation to promote safety
Encouraging and developing civil aeronautics, including new aviation technology

Developing and operating a system of air traffic control and navigation for both civil and military aircraft

Researching and developing the National Airspace System and civil aeronautics
Developing and carrying out programs to control aircraft noise and other environmental effects of civil aviation

Regulating U.S. commercial space transportation

[hiss srq]

Just to clarify Tom the reason you got there slower was not because of the pitch or deck angle if you might of the plane but because of the 250 below 10 rule.

[T-Bird76]

Just to clarify Tom the reason you got there slower was not because of the pitch or deck angle if you might of the plane but because of the 250 below 10 rule.

I know that Ryan....and a fully loaded 737 is going to pitch up below 250 knots... Go fly a paper airplane now. lol

[Mateo]

Airplanes sitting in ground delays at DCA headed up to the NYC area request reroutes at low altitudes all the time. The rumour among the crews is that if you file at 17K or below, you're not subject to any flow control or in-trail restrictions that Center imposes. The usual response of Clearance, though, is "shut up, we're working on it, you'll get out."

States do have some limited jurisdiction over aviation operations - a number of states (Illinois and Virginia, and I think Minnesota come to mind immediately) have their own separate aircraft registration system, payable by annual fee and marked by a decal on the exterior. New Jersey also has a law that says all aircraft must have two locks to prevent unauthorized use (a door lock is 1, and then a lockable gust lock would be 2).