Airliners.net Sold to Demand Media! [Archive]

PhilDernerJr

2007-07-28, 04:51 PM

Johan has sold Anet to an American marketing company called Demand Media. Wild stuff.

Here's his post about it:

Hi all,

As you probably know, Airliners.net keeps growing year after year with more photos, more forum posts, more visitors, more users and more photographers. This is fantastic. I could never in my wildest dreams have imagined this success when I started the site ten years ago.

And what comes with success?? Managing it. And I know you have felt some of the growing pains. There are infrastructure issues – like trying to stay on top of the hardware needs of this site but complexities and the site’s growth have caused outages. What started in my dorm room on one computer is now supported by 25 – and that’s not including all the network gear.

And there are administrative issues. Growing the site, supporting the community and keeping things running takes a big toll on me – All Crew groups have long lists of bugs I need to fix and administrative features I need to add.

The last couple of months I've been thinking real hard on finding a long term solution. We want Airliners.net to keep growing both in numbers and in quality of service to its users and be as strong in 10 years as it is today.

So today, I am happy to announce that we have agreed to be acquired by a company called Demand Media. Don't worry, I'll still be around. I will gradually hand over stuff like management of the hardware, the administrative stuff, programming work and so on. Henrik will also stay so you won't actually see any changes at all, at least not at first, and the changes will be for the better.

Demand Media is not a big company but are experts on what they do, running community sites such as Airliners.net. They have the hardware, the server rooms, and the dedicated programmers to help out with all your programming requests and so on. I came into contact with these guys a few months ago and have been very impressed with what I've seen. Me and Henrik actually went over to Los Angeles (where the company is based) and sat down to meet them face to face. I have no doubts they will be able to help operate the site successfully for many years to come.

This is big news and I realize you will have a lot of questions and some concerns. Please post them below and I will do my best to reply to them.

Thank you all,
Johan

What are your thoughts?

Midnight Mike

2007-07-28, 05:06 PM

Expect to see changes. This company probably bought airliners.net for the ad revenue that it brings in & not because the company likes pretty airplanes.....

My guess, expect to see more banner ads & google ads on airliners.net

On another website that I visit, it was sold off to a similar type of company, about 2 weeks after the sale, the website was invaded by banner ads.......

Yeah I know, same old comments, nothing will change :roll:

Must have been quite an offer, Johan charged a pretty penny for those banner ads....

SoPictureThis

2007-07-28, 05:11 PM

Hmm, very surprising to me. I guess the two biggest aviation photography websites in the world are now American based, hah! It will be interesting to see if the whole American vs European-ness of the great "Jetphotos.net vs Airliners.net" controversy/debate/conundrum/pickle/whatever you wanna call it, will continue to be an element of heat amongst the aviation enthusiast global community.

I predict some people are going to feel very strongly about this, and others will be impartial...I'm not exactly sure where I stand, or if I care at all... :roll:

- jMay

hiss srq

2007-07-28, 06:48 PM

I am for it but I am also against it. If things remain similar to now than rock on. Granted a little of the eurotrash fabulous mindset on there needs to go away but I have been on A net since like 1998 surfing the site. I love the site so it is sad to see Johan is selling it.

bonanzabucks

2007-07-29, 03:56 PM

I wonder how much he sold it for. A site that big must cost a lot.

I suspect he was really tired of taking care of it and needed a rest. I don't blame him. He can't keep doing that forever and maybe he can FINALLY finish his Masters!

As for the Euro vs USA thing, some Swiss dude already expressed regret that an American company was taking over. Didn't take long.

PhilDernerJr

2007-07-29, 05:47 PM

I would guess it was sold for about 3-4 million.

bonanzabucks

2007-07-29, 07:01 PM

I would guess it was sold for about 3-4 million.

Not bad. Providing the Swedish tax system doesn't screw him over, he could probably retire.

PhilDernerJr

2007-07-29, 11:54 PM

I don't think anyone in their late 20s or early 30s can actually retire on 3-4 million, especially after taxes.

tipek

2007-07-30, 11:31 AM

Matt Molnar

2007-07-30, 11:41 AM

Rafal,

Can you explain why you feel that way? Johan made a lot of dough from user-submitted content before this. Why do you feel differently now that it's a "company?"

bonanzabucks

2007-07-30, 12:21 PM

Rafal,

Can you explain why you feel that way? Johan made a lot of dough from user-submitted content before this. Why do you feel differently now that it's a "company?"

Johan said himself that Airlines.net was a corporation. Maybe it was based in Sweden, but it was already a corporation. His taxes would be a lot higher if it wasn't. So, really, no difference.

Why can't people just accept that he got tired of it all and didn't want to deal with the website anymore? It's hard work.

NIKV69

2007-07-30, 12:40 PM

Can you explain why you feel that way? Johan made a lot of dough from user-submitted content before this. Why do you feel differently now that it's a "company?"

It's such hypocracy. Here's a little reality check Johan made Millions on ya Rafal before DM ever came along. Just because you are into aviation and photograpy doesn't mean you can't be in it for a profit.

My guess, expect to see more banner ads & google ads on airliners.net

I disagree Mike, I am hoping the FC members will still be able to surf the site ad free. They are annoying.

I would guess it was sold for about 3-4 million.

I would say 5ish.

he could probably retire.

Doubt it, Phil's right he would still have to work. Especially if he wants the lifestyle he has been enjoying to continue.

mirrodie

2007-07-30, 01:03 PM

And because of that I'm removing all of my pictures from airliners.net. I started uploading there in 1997 for fun. If they want to generate revenue as a company thats fine, but I wont be supporting them.

Rafal

Rafal, I am curious to hear more about this since they've been making $$$ on you since your first upload. And they also 'create' the opportunity to 'profit share' if you sell your images.

I've held off commenting since I am crew for anet.
Congrats to Johan. He;s working ridiculously hard for 10 years and earned it. And I know I can thank him for taking an enthusiast website and helping it create so many opportunities.

Heck, were it not for Anet, I still wouldnt have met that crazy guy from College Point! :shock: :mrgreen:

USAF Pilot 07

2007-07-30, 06:30 PM

I don't think anyone in their late 20s or early 30s can actually retire on 3-4 million, especially after taxes.

In NYC, maybe not... Anywhere else, that's plenty of money. You can invest it in even a modest return asset, say something like 6%, beat inflation and live off the rest.

bonanzabucks

2007-07-30, 08:10 PM

[quote="Phil D.":63530]I don't think anyone in their late 20s or early 30s can actually retire on 3-4 million, especially after taxes.

In NYC, maybe not... Anywhere else, that's plenty of money. You can invest it in even a modest return asset, say something like 6%, beat inflation and live off the rest.[/quote:63530]

Exactly. And I bet I could retire on that in NYC as well. I know people who have done it (here too) on less. It depends on the lifestyle you live.

tipek

2007-07-30, 10:43 PM

It's such hypocracy. Here's a little reality check Johan made Millions on ya Rafal before DM ever came along. Just because you are into aviation and photograpy doesn't mean you can't be in it for a profit.

I know that Johan made a lot of money before DM, but now I don't feel like being part of some corporation.
You can all talk about making money from aviation photography. I don't care about that. I'm here for the hobby not for profit.
I started visiting airliners.net in 1997 when Johan had 50 pictures of airliners all taken by Mike aka AirNikon (RIP). Since then airliners.net was part of my everyday. When the forum was created I was one of the first 10 users that were writting there everyday (my nick that time was B767200ER). Airliners.net pushed me to take more pictures of airplanes. The atmoshphere on the site was like in the Mom's and Pap's store, right now the atmosphere is like in corporation. I seriously didn't mind helping Johan ( I spent countless hours editing database), but I don't want to support something that has "plastic" feeling.

Thanks to airliners.net I have collection of almost 40 000 different airliners registrations. Each year I add 3000 to 5000 new frames to my collection. For me its priceless.

Most of you talk about the money. You are here for the money or for your hobby?
You guys are taking great shots of airplanes, but when you go out do you have money on your mind or just a hope that you will catch some rare frame?

During my 10 years with airliners.net I've made around $5000, that's on average $500 a year - which is less what I pay for parking at IAD while taking pictures.

So airliners.net wont close if I remove 1800 pictures...

Rafal

PhilDernerJr

2007-07-31, 01:54 AM

While I can respect that, Rafal, I still don't fully understand. Nothing on Anet has changed yet, so I don't understand where the "plastic" feel is coming from. Also, fi you have no problem supporting Johan, why can't you seem to support this decision of his and continue to move forward? He is apparently happy to be doing this, and if you cared for his efforts, I'd think you'd be disappointing him and contradicting yourself by removing your photos because of it.

To everyone else, I know many disagree with Rafal, but please don't be too aggressive. Rafal's good peeps.

mirrodie

2007-07-31, 02:14 PM

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/av ... in/283636/ (http://www.airliners.net/discussions/aviation_photography/read.main/283636/)

A bit surprised to read it but I respect that it was done without much public swan song from him.

PhilDernerJr

2007-07-31, 04:15 PM

Losing Unmuth is HUGE. It says a lot, and I wonder how far this "Anet ditching" trend will go.

mirrodie

2007-07-31, 05:36 PM

Phil, this need to be said though. He left a few weeks before the sale of Anet.

So his leaving was completely unrelated to the sale.

Rafal, hope you did not take my comments as rude. I was wondering why your departure was warranted. I guess perhaps I feel that your decision to leave is knee jerk when you've (nor I) have no idea what the future holds for the site.

Will you at least upload to jetphotos?

lijk604

2007-07-31, 05:37 PM

For a person of Art Brett's status to have 30 of 35 rejections(!!!) you have to wonder what is going on. Just reading that statement, I have no desire to upload to A.Net right now, as getting pics screened in 2 weeks is tough enough, and to wait that long and get rejected for strange reasons, it's not worth it to me. I may only have 28 photos there, but seeing long-time contributers leaving, as well as respected photographers (Art) making noise, it is not encouraging.

tipek

2007-07-31, 11:36 PM

Rafal, hope you did not take my comments as rude. I was wondering why your departure was warranted. I guess perhaps I feel that your decision to leave is knee jerk when you've (nor I) have no idea what the future holds for the site.

Will you at least upload to jetphotos?

Which comments? I didn't see anything yet that would offend me.
I have some shots at jetphotos, and if I find time I will upload there (to the point when Chris sells jetphotos :D ).

Rafal

PhilDernerJr

2007-08-01, 12:10 AM

Rafal, lets say Chris had created JetPhotos.net with the intention to make money from the start? Would that sway your decision to upload there? I'm just trying to see the difference between Johan owning it and the media company owning it in regards to participation.

tipek

2007-08-01, 12:19 AM

But the difference between DM and jetphotos is that jp still have real people behind the scenes (not corporation).

PhilDernerJr

2007-08-01, 12:21 AM

Personally, I would consider Anet just as much of a corporation. Johan making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year and a support staff of 80 sounds like a corporation to me.

nwafan20

2007-08-01, 12:54 AM

NcSchu

2007-08-01, 09:00 AM

Has anyone noticed those hyperlink ads that have suddenly appeared in some thread posts? I absolutely hate those.

I'm not sure how I feel about the buy-out. I'm not a member of A.net but go there just to look at the trip reports and photos and I doubt they will really change with this new ownership.

PhilDernerJr

2007-08-01, 09:26 AM

I think those ads were there already. I don't think any changes in regards to the new management have taken place.

tipek

2007-08-01, 09:51 AM

NIKV69

2007-08-01, 12:49 PM

I think the main difference is this:

Demand Media has nothing to do with aviation, so why do they want A.net? For money, money is all that matters to them

Johan, on the other hand was in it for the passion, sure he made some good money from it, but the reason why he created it was the passion of aviation, and his running of A.net was based on that, not just money.

I couldn't say it better myself.

That's interesting but may I ask how you came to this conclusion? You have detailed knowledge of DM?

Rafal just because people don't practice the same things you do as with respect to av-photo doesn't mean their passion is any different in fact I take offense to you suggesting that here. If you feel the way you do fine pull your pics. Just let the others enjoy selling a pic or two and making a few bucks once in a while doing something they are passionate about without jumping on the sell out bandwagon you have already tagged Johan and DM to be.

nwafan20

2007-08-01, 02:02 PM

A little common sense shows that they aren't into aviation...

They have several websites, quite a few are just full of ads, nothing else, they are a company whos goal is to make money... I don't see how you think otherwise....

Either way, I don't really care one way or the other, it doesn't effect me all that much, i'm just pointing out the facts.

NIKV69

2007-08-01, 02:13 PM

They have several websites, quite a few are just full of ads, nothing else, they are a company whos goal is to make money...

Ads are a way to generate money. Johan did it on his site long before DM came along. If you read what Johan wrote he and henks and the existing infrastructure will stay in place. DM will manage the hardware and other stuff like programming etc. They are a company that provides a service and for that service they get paid. I doubt they are going to take over the site and fill it with pop ups so they can collect millions but if that is how you feel don't upload there and don't patronize the site.

i'm just pointing out the facts.

Actually your pointing out assumptions based on what you feel. Also rooted in some sort of bitterness it sounds like.

nwafan20

2007-08-01, 02:23 PM

Also rooted in some sort of bitterness it sounds like.

Haha, no bitterness at all! I enjoy A.net, don't upload much just due to the fact that I hate waiting 2 weeks for photos to be screened. and like I said I am indifferent to what happens with DM and A.net, I understand how business works and quite frankly, if I was in Johan's position I would probably cash out as well.

I respect his decision, but you would be nuts to say that Demand Media is into aviation the way Johan was. Obviously they aren't in it to look at pretty pictures of airplanes. They will try to make as much money off of it as possible without driving people away (Less people = less hits = less money) There is no other reason they would buy it up. Just think about it...

But again, no bitterness, I don't see why you would say that.

mirrodie

2007-08-01, 02:31 PM

Listen, I've watched you all bicker enough to tell you, none of you know what you are talking about.

I don't claim to know all the details. But I can say this. While Demand Media, the company, does not bill itself to be "into" aviation as you think, rest assured that a few of the members of DM that I have talked to are into aviation.

Seriously into aviation.

If they chose to go into further detail to refute the ridiculous speculations here, that is their right.

BUt its sad to see such an amount of speculation when you have nothing to go by.

NIKV69

2007-08-01, 02:35 PM

I hate waiting 2 weeks for photos to be screened We are all sociopaths to an extent and always want instant gratification but 2 weeks is not a long period of time to wait. In fact the wait time lately has been 7-9 days.

I would probably cash out as well.

You missed the point again. He didn't cash out he just brought someone in to do the grunt work with the servers and programming crap something he didn't want to do.

but you would be nuts to say that Demand Media is into aviation the way Johan was

Never said that, in fact how do you know how much Johan or anyone else is into aviation. Is there a special police unit like the fashion police that investigate how passionate someone is about aviation? Your probably right that they are not as into it as Johan but if you read Johan's thread he met with them and was happy with them. So they must like aviation a little bit.

They will try to make as much money off of it as possible without driving people away

How would they drive anyone away?

BUt its sad to see such an amount of speculation when you have nothing to go by.

Exactly..

nwafan20

2007-08-01, 02:41 PM

We are all sociopaths to an extent and always want instant gratification but 2 weeks is not a long period of time to wait. In fact the wait time lately has been 7-9 days.

I understand, but the way I work is I can never get it off my mind until it is done with screening, that is why I upload to JP.net more, because it's only 2-3 days.

You missed the point again. He didn't cash out he just brought someone in to do the grunt work with the servers and programming crap something he didn't want to do.

Demand Media purchased A.net, they weren't just "hired" to do the grunt work.... Technically (it won't happen) but if they wanted to they could shut down the site, they own it now, Johan has no control over that.

Never said that, in fact how do you know how much Johan or anyone else is into aviation. Is there a special police unit like the fashion police that investigate how passionate someone is about aviation? Your probably right that they are not as into it as Johan but if you read Johan's thread he met with them and was happy with them. So they must like aviation a little bit.

Are you telling me Johan isn't into aviation? If he wasn't into it, why did he create a website from the ground up devoted to it? It sure wasn't for the money....

How would they drive anyone away?

Too many ads.

BUt its sad to see such an amount of speculation when you have nothing to go by.

There is speculation on both sides, you are speculating as well, that is really all we can do, but the future will show us who was correct.

PhilDernerJr

2007-08-01, 02:48 PM

Johan said he'd only stick around for the TRANSITION. Once complete, it seems like he's leaving for good.

bonanzabucks

2007-08-01, 03:13 PM

but you would be nuts to say that Demand Media is into aviation the way Johan was

I was one of the original members of A.net. Actually, I had a discussion about this with a few members of this forum. I don't recall Johan ever being deeply involved with the aviation forums, not even when the site was really small. I'm sure he liked aviation and aviation photography, but I don't think he was such a fanatic about it like we are.

mirrodie

2007-08-01, 03:18 PM

you are speculating as well,

No. Actually, what I said was fact. Not speculation.

I don't feel I have to divulge further details but I'd rather stop the train in its tracks than let the rumors continue.

Now again, for the record, I do not know nor claim to know if "Demand Media" is 'into' aviation as as company but having gotten to know at least 2 of the heads of the group, I can tell you they are seriously into aviation.

If and when they feel like divulging that info, they will.

-M

Mateo

2007-08-01, 06:12 PM

The difference is that a.net was created by an enthusiast for enthusiasts. If he made money on it, great, we all wish we could have done the same. Selling it, fine, a business decision. But now, the beneficiary of the generosity of the users is no longer an enthusiast and a member of our community, but a company that holds a.net as a part of its portfolio. Any submission now is simply giving Demand Media, a company with no demonstrated connection to the enthusiast community, equity without any compensation in return.

PhilDernerJr

2007-08-01, 06:25 PM

I can agree and understand that, but what if they improve on the site, and in return for your patronage, give you an amazing service? Does that mean nothing to you?

What if they improve Anet to the point where they make major contributions to the hobby. Is it really all negated just because they're a corporation?

mirrodie

2007-08-01, 08:29 PM

*sighs* :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

see http://www.airliners.net/discussions/si ... 62921/1/#1 (http://www.airliners.net/discussions/site_related/read.main/62921/1/#1)

Reply 92 and 121

I can't understand why some here cannot actually fathom that you can A) be a corporate entity and b) also be an enthusiast :roll: :roll: :roll:

njgtr82

2007-08-01, 08:37 PM

I can't understand why some here cannot actually fathom that you can A) be a corporate entity and b) also be an enthusiast :roll: :roll: :roll:

I agree Mario, and on that I hope it works out well for all involved.

NIKV69

2007-08-01, 09:00 PM

I can't understand why some here cannot actually fathom that you can A) be a corporate entity and b) also be an enthusiast

Because you have people that believe that you have to behave a certain way to be an enthusiast and be a "proper" spotter. It's all a smoke screen.

Mateo

2007-08-01, 10:20 PM

Saying that there's someone with a PPL who likes airplanes at Demand Media is no more equivalent than saying there's someone with a PPL who likes airplanes at any medium-sized company. The database of 1.X million photos is now an asset for Demand Media, an asset that was built solely through the generosity of the uploaders, who neither sought nor were offered compensation. Now that a.net and its prime asset is a line item on a balance sheet, there's little reason to essentially drop money in Demand Media's bucket without getting anything real back (goodwill and intangibles are not a return).