TWA 800, 11 Years Ago Today

[RDU-JFK]

Hard to believe it's been 11 years since the July 17, 1996 crash.

What a tragedy. Are the conspiracy theories still going with the missile?

[moose135]

Yes...sorry Fred.

Time does fly, I still remember it like it was yesterday.

[Speedbird1]

I remember it well. A terrible tragedy for all. Many young college students were heading for fun in Paris. I have 3 questions. I forgot what happened to the retrieved airframe. I think it was re-constructed in a hangar. Was it disassembled later? What was the exact cause? Was it an explosion of a fuel tank?

[Delta777LR]

From what I understand, its still unknown what coursed the explosin of TWA800, N93119. I was 14 years old when it went down the Atlantic Ocean and i have just came back from Switzerland on a Swissair flight a week before the crash and i still think of what is as e blew the plane up. Heres a drawing I did last year on the computer about TWA800
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o37/sergair/TWAFlight80010yearsagotoday.jpg

[AirtrafficController]

Hard to believe it's been 11 years since the July 17, 1996 crash.

What a tragedy. Are the conspiracy theories still going with the missile?

yep they are still alive as people still saw a trail of light heading toward the TWA 747 but the FBI says it says after the nose broke off, the rest of the plane made an almost vertical climb and this is what the FBI believes is the trail of light the people saw.


I remember it well. A terrible tragedy for all. Many young college students were heading for fun in Paris. I have 3 questions. I forgot what happened to the retrieved airframe. I think it was re-constructed in a hangar. Was it disassembled later? What was the exact cause? Was it an explosion of a fuel tank?

The exact cause believed is an explosion in the fuel tank. The TWA 747 Flight 800 was delayed and had to sit on the tarmac for about an hour or more. The AC kept the passengers cool on that hot day but heated up the fuel tanks. The fuel tanks had heated up so much that the fuel reached a flash point. After take off and climbing to its crusing altitude, one of the wires arched which provided the spark for the explosion.

A tragedy that could of been avoided.

[Nycfly75]

I remember it very well. In fact I left for Italy the very next day and my mom was so nervous that I was going. Two newlyweds from my town In Italy were returning home on Flight 800, it was a very sad scene once I got to Italy, the whole town was in mourning. In terms of the missile theories, many people on Eastern LI will swear to this day that they saw a missile going up. Although I think the fuel tank theory probably was the cause, I never fully trusted James Kalstrom of the FBI, he looked like a deceptive person and I still think to this day he hasnt been totally honest.

[AirtrafficController]

Here are some videos of TWA 800 if anyone is interested:

chM86Wf65h8&mode=related&search=
PTUY4bmuQ6A&mode=related&search=
RgRPGobuus0&mode=related&search=

[T-Bird76]

Well its certainly interesting that ten's of thousands of 747 flights before that one and never once the same incident...747's just don't blow up and TWA's mx was impeccable on the older birds. I've spoken to TWA tech's who worked on that bird and they swear it is was impossible for something like that to happen and these guys knew those planes in and out.

Regardless of what did take place over 200 ppl were lost for no reason. It serves as a reminder that sometimes technology, mistakes, or even extremism can play a role in everyone's life.

[T-Bird76]

From what I understand, its still unknown what coursed the explosin of TWA800, N93119. I was 14 years old when it went down the Atlantic Ocean and i have just came back from Switzerland on a Swissair flight a week before the crash and i still think of what is as e blew the plane up. Heres a drawing I did last year on the computer about TWA800

Oh Sergio btw it was 31 series 747 as she was orginally delivered to TWA fresh from Boeing, 31 was TWA's customer code from Boeing, 747-131.

[NIKV69]

I agree with Tommy, I think the people that designed the 747 didn't run wires in a place that if they frayed they could ignite vapors in the center fuel tank. I believe a missle took that plane down. Many saw it and it wasn't the trail after the nose broke off.

R.I.P.

[Derf]

I have seen the wreckage, the fuel tank tried to become round, then tore
like an overpressure balloon. There were no burn marks on the outside of the
fuel take like you would see from missile detonation, there were no inward
rips.

With as many people say different stories, my words will go unnoticed. I
stood there in front of people much smarter than me and found answers that
put to rest anyone who tells me their friend saw, or I know for fact.....

Thousands of people working on this aircraft were doing it for the good of all
of us and would love to uncover a so called conspiracy. I feel secure that we
know the truth..... well, that's me at least!

[hiss srq]

Having seen it from a distance on that night though I was 9 or 10 years old at the time, I never recalled a vapor streak which would be consistant with getting shot down. I beleive that it was infact the pack generated heat along with a spark from potentally frayed wires. I am not intimately familliar with the layout of the bundles for the various systems on the 747-100 series airplane but it is most feaseable and logical to me. The MOA was hot that night and a little known fact is there was a spooky bird in the area at the time along with a pair of Vipers running around the area from what I do understand. This goes along with the fact that the gaurd blackhawk was in the area and thios crew became mysteriously silent in the days after 800 took place. It it entirely possible that maybe the spooky bird or the viper fired a stray round and it did hit the plane from a few people know are familliar with the incident. Maybe the Vipers but again I do not think that anyone of us are qualified to truely say anything except for stick with the NTSP findings. I do recall being in the hottub at my biological dads house in Amityville which was on the bay with a very clear and unobstructed view though. All JFK eastbounders were climbing over his house that night.

[kc2aqg]

I also find it hard to believe it's been 11 years. I was 12 when it happened and I remember watching the news, my mom in tears, the images of the Atlantic ocean on fire and the almost instant conspiracy theories with witnesses seeing streaks of light. It's amazing how vivid the memories are from so long ago.

I have to agree with Tommy in the regard that 747 classics have been flying since 1969 and this has not been a wide-spread problem. If this was truly a design flaw with the wiring of the fuel tank in all of the 747-100 series, a bunch of which are still operating with cargo operators etc, then wouldn't it seem that there would be more incidents of this kind with these aircraft? I'm not a conspiracy theorist nor am I totally convinced by the evidence either way (missile vs. fuel tank explosion), but I do know for a fact that there aren't a huge number of 747's exploding in mid-air...

A very sad incident indeed, whatever the cause...

[hiss srq]

Flight 800's direct sister ship which was as a note also orig. for TWA crashed under similar circumstances if I am not mistaken though with the Iranian Air Force.

[kc2aqg]

I thought that I had read that too, but was never able to get anyone credible to confirm if the circumstances of the incident were the same...

[stuart schechter]

As a philosopher put it, "**** happens." This was a bad day but the outcome will never change. And to brighten some of your day, this will make you laugh. http://www.theonion.com/content/node/29630

[moose135]

Flight 800's direct sister ship which was as a note also orig. for TWA crashed under similar circumstances if I am not mistaken though with the Iranian Air Force.

It was actually a former TWA bird, sold to the IIAF - in fact, N93119, the Flt 800 aircraft - was leased to the IIAF for a year (at the same time as the other IIAF 747 crashed near Madrid). It is believed that a lightning strike on the port wing ignited fuel/vapors in that wing. NTSB investigations (they assisted in the Madrid crash) point to the possibility of fuel leaking into a "dry bay" near the outboard engine, which may have been the ignition site.

[PhilDernerJr]

Pardon my ignorance, but what would a sister ship be? What was it that associated those two particular aircraft?

[hiss srq]

Pardon my ignorance, but what would a sister ship be? What was it that associated those two particular aircraft?

Manufactured in the same batch for the same order.

[nwafan20]

http://tc.engr.wisc.edu/UER/uer00/author2/index.html - That sums it up well

Also, here is a post I made on the subject just 15 days ago:


if you look at the science of the investigation, it was dead on. Fuel fumes can ignite if coupled with O. You must remove all oxygen from a fuel tank or you have the risk of ignition.

The National Geographic Channel did a whole special on it, I wish I could find it on Youtube....

EDIT x2, found full version, here's the version I was talking about, addressed all the theories, etc. There is some pretty damning evidence, especially in Pt. 3.

Pt 1: http://youtube.com/watch?v=chM86Wf65h8& ... ed&search=
Pt 2: http://youtube.com/watch?v=PTUY4bmuQ6A
Pt 3: http://youtube.com/watch?v=RgRPGobuus0& ... ed&search=


Fuel tanks exploding has happened before, its nothing new. This FAA report details what is being done to change that: http://www.fire.tc.faa.gov/pdf/FuelTank%20.pdf

Just from a REALLY quick Google search, you dig up this incident, but luckily, it was a wing tank and it was on the ground.: http://www.airdisaster.com/forums/showt ... hp?t=79395 (http://www.airdisaster.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79395)

Also, if there wasn't an issue with exploding fuel tanks, why are all new Boeing airplanes (as of 2008 I believe) being outfitted with devices to remove all oxygen from the tanks?

And a quote from the article shows it has happened with other planes as well:


In 2001, a Thai Airways 737-400 exploded at the gate at the Bangkok airport. A similar explosion had destroyed a Philippine Airlines 737 on the ground in 1999.

The FAA issued a proposed rule last year that would require operators and manufacturers of transport-category aircraft to take steps to reduce the likelihood of fuel-tank vapors exploding. This would be accomplished by using a fuel inerting system. An inert gas would be pumped into fuel tanks as they empty. Boeing is designing its 787 Dreamliner for such a system should it be required.

[Smartass Flyboy]

WOW, 11 years. I wonder, is this flight going to stay with me my whole career? Last year it really hit me as I was flying out of ISP on the 10'th aniversary and happened to glance at the paper just as looked out across the bay over Fire Island and realized I was looking right at that scene. I can still remember every detail of every minute over a decade later. When the first call went out for a 27 in E Moriches I remember looking at my girlfriend and telling her Spadaro's just had their anual Cessna down. Even as the signal 1 was declared for the 5'th division I still didn't put 2 and 2 together. It was a warm summer eve, we were at Lands End and I have to say I never saw a thing in the sky, not a streak and certainly not the explosion or crash so I never bought into the missile theory. Finally my friend Randall calls my cell and tells me that a 747 is down and E Moriches is asking for multiple 24's and county is calling out all flight medics. We go inside and there is a TV by the inside bar and sure enough News 12 is reporting the same thing. The scene out east was one of disparity. At Montauk and Atlantic Ave. only 1 cop directing traffic, at E Moriches Main the usual organized chaos of a staging area (much more organized than Avianca 6 years earlier), and then I donw at Windswept where it utter chaos. Coast Guard, PD, Air Guard all running from differant playbooks. Circling the scene it never really made sense. It never loked like a crash scene, or at least the only other one I had ever been to. It seemed more like a bon fire with debris surrounding it. Several times it seemed we'd find survivors, but the surface vessels quickly ended that hope. You know I never did figure out how I ended up on a Zodiac after we landed. Just went where someone yelled for a medic and off I went, LOL they probably never did know I was civilian and not Coast Guard when we launched. I still think thats what hurts the most. There were several times when we thought we had a survivor and only upon pulling them in was it obvious that we didn't. I'm sorry I wasn't trained for this, not to deal with this, I was trained for EMS, I was trained in flight physiology, I was never trained in mortuary science. It as after 2 the next morning and I was back at E Moriches main when it came over on F1, "KEG977 Suffolk County Department of Emergency and Rescue Services cancelling the signal 1 in the 5'th division. Rescue operations have been ceased, salvage operations to continue." That was it, a 747 goes down less than 70 miles from the field with no survivors? There is no way. Of course I didn't know about the explosion yet, but even now 11 years later and with the knowledge we all have of the facts I still don't believe it. So now 2 yearslater to the day I start my first day at NW. My new hire class had quite a few TW folks who had just recently been laid off at JFK. Who do I meet that first day? The agent who closed the door that night. What are the odds? Two years to the day and the one who closed it up and one of the ones who figuratively could be said to have opened it, or at least met the aircraft where it ended up. So flash forward to last year and as fate would have it I'm on climb out over that same spot of ocean. Now a year later and I find my self working with several folks who were on the ramp that night. I'm told including a few who worked that aircraft that night, though I didn't seek them out. As 8 was fast approaching I'm looking out across the field and my mind could see that evening again. The power of suggestion strikes again as I could see Terminal 5 (before B6 wrecked it) and in my minds eye I can picture it being dispatched and watch it climb out. I can only wonder how many more times I'm going to cross paths with the memory of TW800. Rest in peace those who perished. May those that lost love ones find peace and may those that dispached that flight ad have had to live with their memories also find peace.

[kc2aqg]

Flyboy - I must say, an extremely interesting perspective to read about. It is very sad that the hope of survivors was so quickly extinguished, but few, if any of us, have heard details like that of the scene first hand. Thanks for posting.

[N790SW]

TWA flight 800 was a very sad day for a lot of people. I myself remember seeing the plane depart from 31L that night on my uncles boat, and that was before I was even interested in planes, this tragedy and after reading all of the news stories made me interested in planes, and call it weird but somehow it happened. I remember saying this to my mom ( with my 7 year old mentality " mommy I want to fly a TWA 747 so that no one dies.) My mom would later point out to a rainbow in the crash direction telling me that it was a sign that everyone was ok.

As Far as the theory goes, I know someone who was flown that bird several times, and as Tommy or someone else said " 747's don't just fall out of the sky" and I even heard TWA had great MX on theses birds. Maybe a missile of the Navy or some other party brought it down? who knows? except the lives of those 230 people.

As far as my personal experience again, I had a dream the other night that I was in the TWA terminal and the plane and the people came back!, and the pilots said " somethings wrong with our plane!" and the people were wet and looked like they went through a crash.

RIP TWA Flight 800 July 17,1996

[kc2aqg]

I hate to be a nitpicker and I really don't want to bring the thread off topic, but TWA 800 departed from runway 22R at JFK that night. I've read the CVR transcripts a bunch of times. Just for factual correctness.