Kennedy Airport Terror Plot Thwarted

[Midnight Mike]

NEW YORK -- According to NewsChannel4's Jonathan Dienst, sources said federal investigators have made arrests in an alleged terror plot on Kennedy Airport.

Four people have been charged. One is in custody in New York.

Sources said the plot involved a plan to blow up a jet-fuel pipeline at JFK setting off a potential massive explosion.

Law enforcement officials said the plot may involved a former airport worker.

A press conference is scheduled for 1 p.m. this afternoon.

Stay with WNBC.com for the latest on this developing story.

[mirrodie]

Wow, can I just tell you how much this sucks?

Not even an hour ago, I was looking at an overview photo of JFK. And I though, wow, wouldn't it be great to somehow get that old rooftop parking lot open again for parking and spotting? Just increase security and do it.

And then something like this brings to reality that thing will never return to what they were.

[nwafan20]

But everyone has to admit, good work on the officials to discover this plot. It goes to show the Patriot act is working.

[PHL Approach]

But everyone has to admit, good work on the officials to discover this plot. It goes to show the Patriot act is working.

Doesn't mean they used it. They are just finally doing their jobs! That's all that needed to be done. They didnt need an act.

[Matt Molnar]

News conference at 1pm.

This will certainly lead to stepped up police awareness at area airports.

[SengaB]

Yummy
Our Hobby hits a all new low now....Here we go again...

Senga

[PhilDernerJr]

Senga, how is our hobby hitting an all new low? I don't see the connection. Maybe security might be stepped up a bit, but nothing beyond that.

The thing that angers me is what CNN reporters keep saying about how bad security must be, since one of the suspects was a former airport worker. I challenge them to find a background check that can figure out if a person is angry or not. If a person has no record, there is littel that cna be done....unless the government were to gather info about their internet activity and such, which the very same people say we shouldn't do.

These reporters continue to blame governemtn agencies, as though this happened becuase someone wasn't doing their jobs. Ont he contrary, we did another great job of thwarting an attack, and having prevented this country from being onthe receiving end of any domestic terrorism since the wake up call of 9/11.

Yet, they put zero blame on the actual Islamic extremists. They think that airport security is the problem, meanwhile there are still many peopel out there who will still want to do us harm in our own nation, regardless of how much security we implement.

Not to mention that this attack had little to do with anything that is beyond TSA security at the airport.

[Midnight Mike]

The thing that angers me is what CNN reporters keep saying about how bad security must be, since one of the suspects was a former airport worker. I challenge them to find a background check that can figure out if a person is angry or not. If a person has no record, there is littel that can be done....unless the government were to gather info about their internet activity and such, which the very same people say we shouldn't do.

These reporters continue to blame government agencies, as though this happened because someone wasn't doing their jobs.

The media will always blame the government, got to blame somebody & the government is always on the front line.

People do not accept that these things can happen, if something bad happens people want to know who is at fault, who to blame, & to who hate.

Lastly, much of these media take every opportunity to blame the government & then watch how its gets spun to blame the President....

[AirtrafficController]

they should do more background checks for airport workers

[Mellyrose]

they should do more background checks for airport workers

First of all:
...I challenge them to find a background check that can figure out if a person is angry or not. If a person has no record, there is littel that can be done....unless the government were to gather info about their internet activity and such, which the very same people say we shouldn't do.......Not to mention that this attack had little to do with anything that is beyond TSA security at the airport.

Also, I assure you, airport workers are put through extensive background checks. NOTHING is foolproof.

[T-Bird76]

This has nothing to do with our hobby at all and in-fact these clowns were under investigation since Jan, we've been spotting since then. I'm sure if they wanted to crack down they would have already.

The good news here is they stopped these jackwags, I wonder what stage this plan was in though and if these guys really had the means to carry it out. It seems some of our past hype led to figures who couldn't rob a purse from a 90 year old wheelchair bound blind woman. In any event good to get these wackos off the street.

[hiss srq]

Cheers to law enforcement number one. Number two though, backroundchecks NWA. Do you realize it take two months alone worth of screening just to receive my security clearnces I have currently? It takes roughly three total from when an airline actually confirms you have the job untill you actually have full credentials to do all the thing what ever you job might require you to do. As a part 135 pilot as well we also have backround checks involved. We are not flying big commercial jets most of the time but we still require backround checks. They go through your life top to bottom.

[mirrodie]

Yummy
Our Hobby hits a all new low now....Here we go again...

Senga


I think what Senga is saying is that as a result of this, spotting may have just gotten harder. (Senga, please chime in and correct me if I am wrong) I assume he means we will now be watched more closely as a result of these events.


But...if I am right in interpreting what he's saying, I hope you are wrong Senga, since this has nothing to do with spotters.

But it does affect us anyway, hence why the parking garage won't be open atop JFK anytime soon.

[T-Bird76]

Yummy
Our Hobby hits a all new low now....Here we go again...

Senga


I think what Senga is saying is that as a result of this, spotting may have just gotten harder. (Senga, please chime in and correct me if I am wrong) I assume he means we will now be watched more closely as a result of these events.


But...if I am right in interpreting what he's saying, I hope you are wrong Senga, since this has nothing to do with spotters.

But it does affect us anyway, hence why the parking garage won't be open atop JFK anytime soon.

Well if some of use aren't racing around JFK jumping out of our car taking a picture and racing away, we wouldn't have to worry about being watched. There's nothing wrong with spotting in the areas Phil has on this site, they are public and out in the open.

[Tom_Turner]

Here's a little bit more of the story.. I love how at the end it is concluded to be "the latest HOMEGROWN terrorist attack to be foiled" when the creep is from Guyana. How all these people that HATE The United States are allowed to become citizens is amazing. Just ask them a few quetions and I am sure many will share their views openly.

But anyway, to Senga's pont...
_____________________________________________
The suspects allegedly had taken surveillance video and photos of the targets, as well as researched the targets on the internet.
______________________________________________

Some percentage of any "added"/"new" security and Capt Americas will eat this up....

I am glad if airport jobs are getting harder to get, but last I knew many hundreds of workers are illegal aliens...many rounded up in raids of major airports across the country.

What about all those cabbies at JFK? They are not "airport workers", but they're there all the time doing whatever they need to do.

_________________________________________________

Brooklyn Man Among Four Charged In Plot To Blow Up JFK

June 02, 2007

Three people have been arrested and one other is being sought in a plot to blow up John F. Kennedy International Airport.

Law enforcement officials said Saturday at a press conference in Lower Manhattan that the plot, which never got passed the planning stage, involved a plan to set off explosives in a jet fuel pipeline that feeds through the airport and runs through residential neighborhoods.

According to a law enforcement source, the 40-mile pipeline brings aviation fuel from a facility in Linden, New Jersey, through Staten Island, Brooklyn, and Queens to the airport.

"[The line] is indeed the feeding tube that nourishes national and international commerce at JKF and LaGuardia," said Police Commissioner Ray Kelly.

Former airport cargo worker Russell Defreitas, a U.S. citizen from Guyana, was arrested last night in Brooklyn, New York. He was arraigned this afternoon at Brooklyn Federal Court.

It was revealed during the arraignment that the plot also included plans to put an explosive on an airplane and to put one in or near a terminal.

In a raid of his apartment yesterday, authorities did not recover any explosives.

During a recorded conversation following one of the surveillance missions, Defreitas, known as the plan's mastermind, allegedly predicted that the attack would result in the destruction of the “whole of Kennedy.”

"Anytime you hit Kennedy, it is the most hurtful thing to the United States,” allegedly said Defreitas in a recorded conversation. “To hit John F Kennedy, wow, they love John F Kennedy. Like, he's the man. If you hit that, this whole country will be in mourning. It’s like you can kill the man twice."

According to a release put out by the Department of Justice Saturday, in May 2007, Defreitas allegedly compared the planned attack to the September 11th terrorist attacks, but there is no proof so far that the suspects are connected to al-Qaeda.

"Even the Twin Towers can't touch it," said Defreitas. "This can destroy the economy of America for some time.”

Sources say Defreitas recruited an FBI informant to help plan the attack. He reportedly met with a radical group in Trinidad, where two other men, Abdul Kadir and Kareem Ibrahim, have reportedly been arrested.

Kadir, an engineer by training, is a citizen of Guyana and served as a Guyana mayor and member of the parliament.

Abdel Nur of Guyana is in fugitive status and is believed to be in Trinidad; he is being sought for extradition.

The suspects allegedly had taken surveillance video and photos of the targets, as well as researched the targets on the internet.

The plot has been in the works since January 2006.

FBI, NYPD, Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, officials said that the suspects presented their plans to terrorist groups across South America. They were described to have a "clear signature of persistence."

"The devastation that would have been caused had this plot succeeded is just unthinkable,” said U.S. Attorney Roslynn Mauskopf. “The charges that were filed today give you a window into how these plots come about.”

“This plot was only in its planning stages and at no point was anyone in imminent danger," reiterated Mayor Michael Bloomberg in a statement. "New Yorkers should be comforted that the layers of safety provided by counterterrorism officials stopped these individuals before they could do any harm to our way of life.”

Sources also say the reason the arrests took place at this time was because the suspects had plans to travel.

According to the report released by the DOJ, JFK handles over 1,000 flights daily, and handles approximately 45 million passengers annually.

The case is being prosecuted by the Assistant U.S. Attorneys Jeffrey Knox and Marshall L. Miller. If convicted, each suspect faces a maximum sentence of life imprisonment.

This is the latest homegrown terrorist attack to be foiled. Last month, six people were arrested and charged with an attempt to blow up Fort Dix in New Jersey.

[emshighway]

The CNN talking heads are spouting all the security is in the front end and none in the back end. As I am sure most of you are already aware there are a lot of measures in the back-end from SIDA badging, ADASP employee screening to perimeter detection. These talking heads and self appointed security experts they have on cheer for tightening of measures even more. If we were to tighten security to the measures they want the airports would come to a screeching halt. They will then complain (as they do now) of delays are how hard it is to fly.

One of the supposed security experts complained that people in the lobby are not screened. Could you imagine how long the lines would be if people were screened at the front door? Then the complaint would be someone could blow themselves up in the line outside the airport.

The airports were designed for an open society. Measure have been taken and will be added to tighten up the holes. With the amount of employees at an airport the potential for bad apples is like anywhere else but with intelligence as used in this case and awareness of the employees to something suspicious hopefully threats like this can continue to be stopped.

As opposed to cringing that spotting will become harder this should be an opportunity to once again offer the services of an organized spotting group to for the use of their eyes and ears to report suspicious activities.

[Tom_Turner]

As opposed to cringing that spotting will become harder this should be an opportunity to once again offer the services of an organized spotting group to for the use of their eyes and ears to report suspicious activities.

Well, I suppose it will be another opportunity for that. It will be an opportunity for the Port Authority to say YES or NO again as well.

Tom

[SengaB]

Phil, Mario,

Thanks Mario, Thats exactly what I was saying.
However since you all brough it up. I feel events like this do affect our hobby indirectly to some degree- usually negativly.
I have already heard of an instance where this has happend today.
Senga

[tipek]

Senga, how is our hobby hitting an all new low? I don't see the connection. Maybe security might be stepped up a bit, but nothing beyond that.

Not to mention that this attack had little to do with anything that is beyond TSA security at the airport.

Well, not even hour ago I was kicked out from "official" spotting location at IAD...

[PHL Approach]

Senga, how is our hobby hitting an all new low? I don't see the connection. Maybe security might be stepped up a bit, but nothing beyond that.

Not to mention that this attack had little to do with anything that is beyond TSA security at the airport.

Well, not even hour ago I was kicked out from "official" spotting location at IAD...

Rafal has proved it only what 2 hours after this had happened. Phil, this will undoubtly give us new hurdles to overcome.

[T-Bird76]

Some of you really are making this bigger then it is to our hobby... If you recall after the London bomb plot was uncovered security was raised and a few of us got a bit of a bothering. Give it a few weeks and it will be back to normal, this will not give our hobby new hurdles to overcome. JFK and LGA have plenty of public parks around them to spot freely where you can enjoy the hobby.

Rafal what spotting area did you get kicked out from? From my trips down to IAD there isn't an "official" spotting location with the exception of the Air and Space museum. Technically all the other spots i.e parking garage are private and they can ask you to leave.

Look at it this way to, the sky is going to suck for pictures anyway with this haze, so take a break and go to the beach.

[tipek]

I was taking pictures with Blendi from the parking garage. (Daily 2 level 5). Washington Airport Authority people have told us few years ago that we won't be bothered while taking pictures from both parking garages and museum's parking lot.

Both cops were reall *******s. I don't want to go into details because I get mad when I think about it. Simply, without any reason they've told us to get the hell out of there.

Rafal

[emshighway]

I was taking pictures with Blendi from the parking garage. (Daily 2 level 5). Washington Airport Authority people have told us few years ago that we won't be bothered while taking pictures from both parking garages and museum's parking lot.

Both cops were reall *******s. I don't want to go into details because I get mad when I think about it. Simply, without any reason they've told us to get the hell out of there.

Rafal

Well since every news agency is running to an airport to get b roll the powers that be will be sensitive to anyone with a camera today. Since it was mentioned the plotters were visiting JFK taking pictures the news cameras may be pointed at you then they will throw a mic in front of the police asking why they didn't check you out.

The cops don't want the hassle.

[nikon50bigma]

This is going to make spotting much more difficult now.

[T-Bird76]

This is going to make spotting much more difficult now.

OMG....I can't believe the thought pattens going on in some peoples mind! The same dam thing happened with the London plots and a few weeks later it was fine! Of course the cops are going to be up ppls ass right now bc its in the spotlight. The only places you probably will get run off is the cargo area and the Firestone parking lot. All the other locations are parks! You can do whatever you want in a park its public land.

[Mellyrose]

Moderator Note: This thread has been locked temporarily.

[NIKV69]

This plot never made it out of the planning stages. From what I hear the feds had an informant that got the info from the employee at the airport and it was basically just talk. I think if truth be known there are prob a hundred of attacks that are currently being planned at JFK from terrorists. Whats funny is that the person involved is in an insider. This is the media just trying to scare the **** out of people. I would not make a big thing out of this and just go about things as normal.

[nwafan20]

This is going to make spotting much more difficult now.

OMG....I can't believe the thought pattens going on in some peoples mind! The same dam thing happened with the London plots and a few weeks later it was fine! Of course the cops are going to be up ppls ass right now bc its in the spotlight. The only places you probably will get run off is the cargo area and the Firestone parking lot. All the other locations are parks! You can do whatever you want in a park its public land.

I have to agree with Tommy, unless an attack actually went through. Our hobby won't be effected one bit. People are overreacting

[cancidas]

The CNN talking heads...



lol!! that's so damn true...

[Matt Molnar]

OMG....I can't believe the thought pattens going on in some peoples mind! The same dam thing happened with the London plots and a few weeks later it was fine!
The big difference between this and London: this happened here.

I don't want to be a doomsdayer, but I'd say the following each have a high likelihood of happening in the coming weeks and months as a result of this:
- More people are going to call the cops on spotters, resulting in more cops giving spotters talkings-to
- There will be more cops patrolling the perimeters of airports, and they will give spotters talkings-to when they see them.
- Using the fact that these guys conducted "surveillance" of JFK as ammo, at least one of our opportunist local lawmakers (Schumer, Wiener, Clinton, et al.) will suggest banning photography around airports. Aside from us, no one will try to stop them.

Remember what they did after the Corey Lidle crash? They proposed all kinds of feel good legislation so planes wouldn't fly in certain areas, yet would be impossible to enforce in a way that would actually protect anyone.

Just yesterday, more of the same. Rep. Anthony Wiener proposed a ban of tourist helicopter flights over Manhattan. Why? He was leveraging a story from FOUR YEARS AGO to get his name in the papers...the story of some terrorist types who speculated that it would be neat to fly one of those choppers into a skyscraper. Of course if a terrorist wanted to commandeer a chopper which was newly relegated to flying strictly over the river, there'd be nothing to stop him from turning it just a bit to the east and hitting something.

Schumer has press conferences on many Sundays, and he loves talking about air issues. I wonder if he'll have anything to say tomorrow.

[Winglets747]

This is going to make spotting much more difficult now.

OMG....I can't believe the thought pattens going on in some peoples mind! The same dam thing happened with the London plots and a few weeks later it was fine! Of course the cops are going to be up ppls ass right now bc its in the spotlight. The only places you probably will get run off is the cargo area and the Firestone parking lot. All the other locations are parks! You can do whatever you want in a park its public land.

Well said. News cameras aren't going to be driving around the Rockaways--they're going to be at JFK interviewing people who know little about the story (:arrow: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime_f ... _plot.html (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime_file/2007/06/03/2007-06-03_residents_rattled_by_scary_jfk_plot.html)).

These people did a bulk of their surveillance via Google Earth. I wonder if that--with the new Street View--will prompt a lot of outcry.

I particularly enjoyed (because they were so awful) the first two paragraphs from an article by the Daily News.


Four extremists hatched a plot to blow up Kennedy Airport and swaths of Queens by attacking fuel tanks and an underground petroleum pipeline - in hopes of igniting a catastrophic explosion that would eclipse 9/11, authorities said yesterday.

One of the Muslim men, Russell Defreitas, a U.S. citizen who had worked for a cargo company at the airport, boasted to an informant that "he had a vision that would make the World Trade Center attack seem small," authorities said.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime_f ... nds-4.html (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime_file/2007/06/03/2007-06-03_they_aimed_to_kill_thousands-4.html)

It says "One of the Muslim men" yet before it does not say anything about who these people are. They are just playing into the Muslim stereotype, helped along by an extreme quote. You get what you pay for. :roll:

[Nycfly75]

I worked many years (and now working again) in the energy industry and its common knowledge that an entire pipeline cannot be ignited by an explosive detonation at either endpoint of the pipeline. If they went for the tank farm, by all means they would have caused incredible damaged, but it would not have taken out the fuel lines going to the gates or the pipeline running from the airport to Linden, NJ. Even if they detonated something at the end point of the pipeline, the damaged would have been severely restricted to the area where the detonation was. Trust me, energy companies know how to protect their assets and property. The pipeline in question lies about a block north of my house, there has never been an incident involving it over the many years its been there. But trust me now, the idiotic local civic leaders will try to make issue of it, even though in reality there was no real danger to Howard Beach unless these wanna-be terrorist jerks actually detonated something in the street up the block.

On another note, if anyone wants to take pictures if the airport starts given people problems, I probably have one of the best private spotting locations near JFK.

[T-Bird76]

The big difference between this and London: this happened here.

I disagree Matt and don't see a big difference. Most of those planes targeted in London were JFK bound so JFK went on the offensive then to. We also have a tendency to become very complacent after some time has past. I don't disagree that if you went to certain places at JFK today or within the next week you're going to get targeted but three weeks from now things will go back to what they were. I don't think Schmucker will go to crazy over this if anything he'll point his ego at Google. From the sounds of it these guys didn't have knowledge based on what Vin posted to pull this off.

[AirtrafficController]

I heard over the JFK ATC between an pilot and air traffic controller discussing about the terror plot twarted and the pilot saying: :the story is you guys thwarting that terror plot"

[hiss srq]

So this morning Newsday (which I do not normally read but everyone el,se does) comes to my house and they have overhead puctures and detailed maps like you woul not beleive in there. What total morons honestly no offense Moose. But talk about giving things away sometimes.

[NcSchu]

So this morning Newsday (which I do not normally read but everyone el,se does) comes to my house and they have overhead puctures and detailed maps like you woul not beleive in there. What total morons honestly no offense Moose. But talk about giving things away sometimes.

Well it's not very difficult to get them anyway, but yeah, it sort of reminds me how news anchors love talking about battle plans in such and describing in detail military movements on TV before they happen. I mean seriously, if Al Qaeda is smart they'd be monitoring American news channels if anything.

[shamrock838]

Greetings ...

Given that in a few weeks most (all?) of this will have blown over ...

I'm wondering if using binoculars inside JFK ... say the Terminal 4 outside overlooks ... will draw unwanted attention at this time?

I hark back to my experience at this same location on Wednesday, May 9th, when I was stopped by a frantic, arm-waving TSA agent and told that using binoculars was not allowed "at this airport."

BTW ... this was just 24-36 hours after the Fort Dix episode hit the fan ... so I guess everyone at JFK was already on high alert. Visiting Terminal 4 on Saturday, May 26 ... everything seemed back to normal.

Sometimes I guess we just have to ride out the storm and wait until things calm down again.

Mike (shamrock838)

[Winglets747]

I think it's time for a member here to respond and squash this thread: http://www.airliners.net/discussions/ge ... n/3439457/ (http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/3439457/)

[Mateo]

Nwafan, what provision of the PATRIOT Act was used in arresting these men?

You know what I learned from this whole incident? There's a 40-mile pipeline delivering jet fuel (which is not very flammable at all) straight from Linden to JFK. Hmmph.

[nwafan20]

Nwafan, what provision of the PATRIOT Act was used in arresting these men?

You know what I learned from this whole incident? There's a 40-mile pipeline delivering jet fuel (which is not very flammable at all) straight from Linden to JFK. Hmmph.

None of us know what for sure, but I can pretty much guarantee you that some measure of the PATRIOT act was used.

PATRIOT ACT: Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act of 2001


the Act dramatically expanded the authority of U.S. law enforcement agencies for the stated purpose of fighting terrorism in the United States and abroad. Among its many provisions, the act increased the ability of law enforcement agencies to search telephone and email communications and medical, financial, and other records; eased restrictions on foreign intelligence gathering within the United States; expanded the Secretary of the Treasury’s authority to regulate financial transactions, particularly those involving foreign individuals and entities; and enhanced the discretion of law enforcement and immigration authorities in detaining and deporting immigrants suspected of terrorism. The act also expanded the definition of terrorism to include “domestic terrorism,” thus enlarging the number of activities to which the Patriot Act’s expanded law enforcement powers can be applied.

[NcSchu]

It might not have played as important a role. From what I've read and heard it seems like law enforcement attempts to get closer to and more friendly with the Muslim communities around NYC helped the most.

[Nycfly75]

It might not have played as important a role. From what I've read and heard it seems like law enforcement attempts to get closer to and more friendly with the Muslim communities around NYC helped the most.

Being friendlier with the respective communities and entities where potential suspects may exist is probably one of the more useful tools in intelligence gathering these days.... ;)

[FlyingColors]

I was going to comment, but instead I'll just quote Ron White...

"Next time you have a thought-- just let it go"

[USAF Pilot 07]

I'm not so sure the Patriot Act had much of a role in all of this...

Sounds like they used some drug-dealer informant to collar these guys...

[Matt Molnar]

From the sounds of it these guys didn't have knowledge based on what Vin posted to pull this off.
You're absolutely right, but pols exploit whatever is being hyped up in the media regardless of the actual threat. What these guys sought to do was impossible, and they didn't have the resources to even attempt it anyway. We should be far more worried about car bombs in Midtown and suicide bombers on subways, but instead they will put airport security under the microscope again.

On the bright side, you're probably right about Google. Looky here:
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1129/529939139_ce8808918a_o.jpg
And the indictment here: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/ye ... ogle2.html (http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0604071google2.html)

[Matt Molnar]

Bloomberg RE: the JFK plot...
"There are lots of threats to you in the world. There's the threat of a heart attack for genetic reasons. You can't sit there and worry about everything. Get a life," he said. "You have a much greater danger of being hit by lightning than being struck by a terrorist," he added.

[Matt Molnar]

Fourth Suspect in JFK plot surrenders in Trinidad (http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN0528525920070605?feedType=RSS&rpc=22)
Tue Jun 5, 2007 1:34PM EDT
By Linda Hutchinson-Jafar

PORT OF SPAIN (Reuters) - A fourth suspect in what U.S. authorities said was a plot to blow up New York's JFK International Airport surrendered to police on Tuesday in Trinidad and Tobago, officials in the Caribbean island state said.

A senior police official said Abdel Nur of Guyana, the only one of four suspects who was still at large, turned himself in shortly after midday (1600 GMT) at a police station in Diego Martin in western Trinidad.

U.S. authorities have said Nur belonged to Jamaat al Muslimeen, a Muslim group behind a 1990 coup attempt in Trinidad.

[T-Bird76]

Not to beat dead horse but this past Saturday, Eric, Bill, Nick, and I were out spotting at Bayswater and had no problems what so ever. Three NYCPD officers were even around and didn't say boo to us, camera in hand to. As I thought and stated if you spot in the areas highlighted on the maps in a responsible manner you have nothing to worry about.