JFK Spotting Sites ... “A” vs “E”

[shamrock838]

Greetings,

This past (vacation) week I visited both Site A “Howard Beach” … the small parking lot off Cross Bay Boulevard … and Point E (Frank M Charles Park) to view the departures from JFK Runway 31L. Not the easiest sites to reach without stretching public transportation with considerable walking. But ... where there's a will there's usually a way ...

On Monday, May 21, I visited Site B … the parking lot off Cross Bay Boulevard at the south end of the Congressman Joseph P Addabbo Bridge … around midday. Departures from JFK 31L were relatively infrequent and mostly domestic with the merest scattering of "internationals."

On Saturday, May 26, I visited Site E … the Frank M Charles Memorial Park in Howard Beach … later in the day. Departures from JFK 31L were more frequent with a nice mix of domestic and international. Hot even after 5pm ... and the buggies are starting to appear.

At Site B … most flights veered to the left when lifting off from JFK … is this in accordance with local noise abatement procedures? Some good side shots were to be had but a greater number of “bellies.”

At Site E … many flights “bellied” right overhead while veering seaward. A few of the four-engine international “heavies” started banking later and provided magnificent side views. And … “mein Gott” … a veritable plague of JetBlue AirBus A320s! Others … mostly medium and shorter-range aircraft … passed well to the left while climbing more sharply.

Question #1: - In your collective experience … which is the best overall spotting site for JFK 31L departures … the Site B parking lot off Cross Bay Boulevard … or Site E at Frank M Charles Park?

Question #2: - Does the JFK Control Tower assign different liftoff flight patterns to successive flights ... to avoid wake effects from preceding aircraft? I’m reminded of the tragic fate of AA Flight 587 at Belle Harbor in November 2001 … so it would seem to make sense.

Question #3: - What about flights arriving at JFK on 13L further north. Any suggested spotting sites up here? Thanks.

Mike (shamrock838)

[T-Bird76]

On Monday, May 21, I visited Site B … the parking lot off Cross Bay Boulevard at the south end of the Congressman Joseph P Addabbo Bridge … around midday. Departures from JFK 31L were relatively infrequent and mostly domestic with the merest scattering of "internationals."

Spot B is the mounds for 22 arrivals...why would you go their for 31 departures?

I like both Howard Beach spots A and E equally.

[Tom_Turner]

Hi Mike.

You will probably get different opinions here, but...

#1

The Howard Beach parking lot will get you alot more opportunities to shoot than Frank M Charles Park as you have seen for yourself.

But, like anything else, the Hobie shots can be repetitive, (even the best ones) so if you can get some (non Belly) shots from FMC Park, those can be a nice change up. (I think Eric Dunetz and Josh Akbar if I am remembering correctly, have taken some really nice shots there).

One thing to be aware of, is during the earlier part of day, there are simply less heavies departing so late afternoons in the summer is good for not having so many aircraft "cut off" your position by "turning early".

Its a trade-off though. The afternoon shots will have you balancing the sun angle as the aircraft pass over to back lit in mid turn. The mid morning on the other hand (depending on the time of year, can catch the turns in good light nearly the whole way, or latter turn...)

# 2: I am not qualified to give you much technical information here, but alot does depend on the weight of the aircraft, and type of aircraft. The A340s being the most predictable slow climbers. 757s and 727s probably the most unpredictable. Additionally some airlines (pilots?) simply don't/won't bank as much as others. Good ones to look for - Korean Cargo 747 and Aerolinas Argentinas A340s. Ones that are generally not dramatic - Luftansa A340s.

In terms of what happened with the JAL 747 && AA A300 - well, its all there in the NTSB report I suppose, but certainly many hundreds of times over the years JAL 747s have preceded AA A300s off of 31L.

# 3 As for aircraft arriving 13L, there is (to my knowledge) no one particular sweet spot for them banking in. Its a visual approach, and again, from the photographers POV on the ground, different aircraft *seem* to offer better opportunities at different points in the path. There seems to be a lot of variation amongst the pilots and too, sometimes there is a wide turn to allow the preceding aircraft to clear the runway.

Hope this helps.

Tom

[shamrock838]

On Monday, May 21, I visited Site B … the parking lot off Cross Bay Boulevard at the south end of the Congressman Joseph P Addabbo Bridge … around midday. Departures from JFK 31L were relatively infrequent and mostly domestic with the merest scattering of "internationals."

Spot B is the mounds for 22 arrivals...why would you go their for 31 departures?

I like both Howard Beach spots A and E equally.

ARRRGGHHH ... I meant Spot A ... not Spot B!!

[shamrock838]

Hi Mike.
You will probably get different opinions here, but...
Hope this helps.
Tom

Tom ...

Fantastic reply ... one of the best ever for me. Many thanks.

Mike (shamrock838)

[AirtrafficController]

Answer #1 I think the best spot is spot B as you could always walk down that beach of about a quarter mile and you could always get side shots (maybe not for the light regional aircraft)

Answer #2 Kennedy tower does not assign take off patterns as the just say: ( "Air France 70 heavy, turn left and contact New York Departure") The weight of the aircraft affects how sharp of a turn they can make and the pilot's control. Kennedy does leave a time period or hold after a heavy aircraft departs which leaves weight turbulence.

[lear45]

[quote=weight turbulence.[/quote]

wake turbulence

[727C47]

corner of 124th st. and n.conduit, good place to catch the pivot turn on 13L.