States not helping to combat Illegal Aliens

[Midnight Mike]

People have been screaming bloody murder that the Federal Government have not been doing enough to stop Illegal Aliens from entering the United States.

Yet, there are States that not only refuse to assist, but, are actually encouraging the Illegal Aliens from entering the Country in the first place.


Newsom pledges to make SF a sanctuary for illegal immigrants
Sunday, April 22, 2007

Mayor Gavin Newsom vowed Sunday to maintain San Francisco as a sanctuary for immigrants and do everything he can to discourage federal authorities from conducting immigration raids.

The mayor cannot stop federal authorities from making arrests, Newsom told about 300 mostly Latino members of St. Peter's Church and other religious groups supporting immigrants. But no San Francisco employee will help with immigration enforcement.

"I will not allow any of my department heads or anyone associated with this city to cooperate in any way shape or form with these raids," Newsom declared. "We are a sanctuary city, make no mistake about it."

The Board of Supervisors first declared San Francisco a "sanctuary city" in 1989. The designation, which many U.S. cities across the country took on during the 1980s, has no legal meaning.

U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement officials have since May 2006 conducted raids across the country, including arrests in San Rafael, Oakland, Richmond, San Pablo, Santa Clara and other cities across the Bay area. Immigration officials have said they were executing arrest warrants for immigrants who had committed crimes or were in the country illegally and had ignored final deportation orders.

In the course of serving deportation warrants, the officials said, other people whom officers suspected of being illegal immigrants were questioned and then arrested. Of at least 65 Marin County residents arrested in March, for example, just five had been ordered deported.

The raids, many of which conducted at private homes before dawn and some of which caught up legal immigrants and even citizens, have created an uproar in the Bay Area. Politicians and community leaders have demanded they end, saying some immigrants parents are now afraid to send their children to school or leave home.

Immigration agents on Friday arrested 13 foreign nationals who were working illegally at Eagle Bag Corp. in Oakland, a packaging manufacturer whose clients include the U.S. military. The arrests there of immigrants suspected of using counterfeit documents to obtain jobs were not related to the recent raids.

San Rafael Mayor Al Boro in March called on California's U.S. senators, Democrats Barbara Boxer and Dianne Feinstein, to push the immigration agency to change how it is enforcing immigration law because he believed children were the ones being hurt.

Marches and rallies are planned in coming weeks in Redwood City, San Francisco, Oakland, San Jose, Sacramento and other cities.

Porfirio Quintano was one of those who pleaded with Newsom, Senator Carole Migden and Assemblyman Mark Leno during Sunday's meeting to do what they can to make San Francisco safe for immigrants.

The 42-year-old immigrant from Honduras said his Richmond home was raided in 2003 by federal immigration agents based on what turned out to be bad information.

"We are victims," said Quintano, adding that his wife and two daughters, then ages 4 and 10, live in fear of another raid, even though they are in the country legally. "They were looking for somebody unrelated to us, but they lined us up against the wall and held us for an hour. It was terrifying, especially for our daughters."

Newsom, Migden and Leno all vowed to work with other cities and legislators to put a stop to what they said was blatant intimidation of immigrants.

"Our action is to stand strong in opposition to these raids... to make sure that we are not contributing in any way, shape or form," Newsom said. "Even legal immigrants are fearful. This just sends a chill to a lot of people. There are a lot of cities that want these raids. That's where the federal government should be spending their time." http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f ... DGNF18.DTL (http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/04/22/BAGADPDGNF18.DTL)

[PhilDernerJr]

Uh, can't he be arrested for that then? Isn't he breaking the law by taking that stance?

[T-Bird76]

I just don't understand why we give rights to people who are not U.S Citizens. I have no problem at all with letting people into our country, infact we should encourage it, but you need to come here legally.

[NIKV69]

Tommy you know well enough why. Cheap labor. Look at most of the sanctuary cities and you will see most of them are resort areas that need maids in the hotels, other service jobs etc that pay crap. Add to that the areas in the country that need crops picked and houses built and you will find many cities that will not report illegals. Unless you want to start paying a lot more for things like hotel rooms or things that have to be harvested and sent to market.

[moose135]

I have to agree with Nick (scary, I know!) Until we make the penalties to the companies that hire illegals so severe that they don't want to go on living, you will never stop this problem. So what if INS (or whatever alphabet soup name they have now) rounds up a few hundred, or a few thousand, or a few million, illegal immigrants. As long as companies are willing to hire them, there will be more in line waiting for their chance to come to the US. And since it can take years for someone to go through the process to receive permission to enter legally, (well, unless you can throw a 95MPH fastball) many are willing to risk capture and even death to come to the US.

You want to end most illegal immigration? End the demand for low-paid, undocumented workers. Any company found to be employing illegal immigrants should be fined $10K per day per worker, and the company president does a year in jail. I think that would change how they do business.

[T-Bird76]

I understand what your saying Nick and John but listen to what your saying? Its a sad statement about the people of our own country. They're are thousands of Americans who can do these jobs but won't because somehow its beneath them. They'd rather suck off the Gov't then to get out and work for a living.

I fear that's going to get worse and worse to. It seems the generation coming out of HS and college simply expect things to be given to them.

[Midnight Mike]

I have to agree with Nick (scary, I know!) Until we make the penalties to the companies that hire illegals so severe that they don't want to go on living, you will never stop this problem. So what if INS (or whatever alphabet soup name they have now) rounds up a few hundred, or a few thousand, or a few million, illegal immigrants. As long as companies are willing to hire them, there will be more in line waiting for their chance to come to the US. And since it can take years for someone to go through the process to receive permission to enter legally, (well, unless you can throw a 95MPH fastball) many are willing to risk capture and even death to come to the US.

You want to end most illegal immigration? End the demand for low-paid, undocumented workers. Any company found to be employing illegal immigrants should be fined $10K per day per worker, and the company president does a year in jail. I think that would change how they do business.

That would be Phase 1, even if you fine a company $100k per day, per offense, people will still cross the border

Phase 2 would have to be the appeal of the 14th Amendment, this would stop Illegal Aliens from having "anchor babies"


Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.


Phase 3 would have to be the elimination or modification of our Welfare policy. Illegal Aliens are in the school system (High School & College) they are using the Hospitals & Clinics, etc.

[NIKV69]

Look we are never going to get Americans to do these jobs. It's not going to happen. Hotels, factories, farms, and the whole service industry needs people that not only work for less but that can be depended upon. The whole waitstaff and house staff at the club I work at are migrants. We also put them up in housing. It's a fact that if you want people to wait on people, serve them drinks, clean the place and fix things that break and be assured they will be there every day without fail you have to go outside the country. It's just the way it is. Same thing with people that hotels need to clean rooms, wash dishes etc..

[PhilDernerJr]

Let's rewind about 30 years. Who worked the jobs that no one wants to work today? I know we didn't have a majority of Mexicans as maids, custodians, busboys and such. Also keep in mind that this was at a time when the middle class was much stronger.

That same structure is possible int he United States today. The resposne that you'll get back from companies these dyas is that they "can't compete in the global market" if they offered "livable" wages for such jobs.

However, if Americans were willing to take those jobs, then thought immigration might be less of a problem, as well as unemployment, peope would cry out about helathcare costs even more, and poverty woudl rise, as then we are measuring more legal Americans that are making $5 an hour.

How do we solve all of this? SOCIALISM! I'm kidding, but I thin it's clear we need to develop a program that lets us rely on our own citizens for such work while maintaining decent competition on a global scale and not shifting the middle class more than we already have.

Unfrtunatley, we don'thave any potnetial Presidential candidates that are able to do that. Maybe in 2016.

[Matt Molnar]

It's a "what came first" problem. Americans don't object to honest work as long as they're paid fairly for it. They don't think cleaning toilets or picking tomatoes is beneath them as long as they can make a good living by doing it. But when illegals come in and are willing to do the same jobs for half the price, employers hire them instead. And even if a business doesn't want to based on principle, if one business in their industry and geographic area does it, they are all forced to do it to remain competitive.

[PhilDernerJr]

http://maddox.xmission.com/cluetrain3.gif

[USAF Pilot 07]

The problem with all of this is that it comes full circle, and it is very hard, if near impossible to break that circle.

Most people say they are opposed to illegal immigration, yet most people don't want to pay far more for the same things that they are currently paying. Because of this, most people, whether actively or passively, are willing to turn a blind-eye to illegal immigration. Constituents need votes, and need the majority of people to support them to be elected to office. If most people are willing to turn a blind-eye to illegal immigration, and if most people aren't willing to pay more for items in order to help eradicate illegal immigration, you cannot expect constituents to take up the fight against illegal immigration, especially by raiding warehouses, or other known places of employment.

It's kind of a messed up situation, but there's really no quick fix for it. The majority of us need illegals if we want to maintain our current quality of life in this country.

[T-Bird76]

Has anyone even pondered the question, "What did we do before the influx of illegals?" We needed people to pick crops then, we needed clean toilets then, and we had hotels that had guest demanding service then as well. So how did we get along before without them? If we say we need them it almost assumes we couldn't perform the job before the influx. Or were they always here and somehow we've chosen to scapegoat as the cause for our domestic problems?

[NIKV69]

You guys on something!? We have always had migrant workers, thing is back then the majority of them weren't illegal but they have been there. We are not going to get Americans to do these jobs. I am against this sanctuary city crap tho. These people need to abide by our laws and get citizenship and if they break laws they go back home and should be documented by our government.

[USAF Pilot 07]

Has anyone even pondered the question, "What did we do before the influx of illegals?" We needed people to pick crops then, we needed clean toilets then, and we had hotels that had guest demanding service then as well. So how did we get along before without them? If we say we need them it almost assumes we couldn't perform the job before the influx. Or were they always here and somehow we've chosen to scapegoat as the cause for our domestic problems?

Slavery? Immigrant workers working for little to nothing?

Labor Laws and Unions weren't as prevolent back then, and workers rights didn't mean much. Then in the 1920s and 1930s the Great Depression came along where people were just happy to have work, even if it meant not making much.

I mean, even today, if you go down to some southern communities, you will find that African-Americans hold a lot of the jobs that illegal Mexicans hold in other areas of the country, and aren't getting paid much better, many not making close to minimum wage. It's an outrage, yet no one complains about that... Is it because those people are legal?

How come it's going to take the MTA like 6 years to build a 2 mile tunnel under 2nd Avenue when it took 2 years less than that to build a tunnel between City Hall and 145th Street on the Westside in the early 1900s??

With the US Economy being the best it's been in a long time, and a mentality shift between workers in the early to mid-1900s and today's workers, it will be very hard to return to pre-Illegal Immigration days...

The fact will always remain, even if you give Illegals citizenship or organize some sort of immigration process: if we want cheap goods, delivered quickly, we will need workers willing to work for less than minimum wage, and who are willing not to demand workers rights etc...

[Tom_Turner]

"We" need people to work for below minimum wage? Someone needs to tell the congress which raises the minimum wage from time to time then.

I believe Americans *will* do this work if you cut off funds to able bodied adults. Work or Perish. For the established (or better) minimum wage.

And, I agree with Moose. The companies that hire these illegals need to face HUGE fines and people need to do jail time.

Of course we WANT low prices for our goods and services. The fact is we better start paying for those goods and services because it is a total falacy that we will NOT "pay" for what we are doing now. We will NOT have our cake and eat it too.

Bush wants a "guest worker" program. And on a small scale, that might work, but its not a solution. Not at all. Unless one day you want to wake up in a place like France with a huge disenfranchised 2nd class torching your cars every other week.

This country does not benefit I don't believe, on balance, economically from all this illegal immigration. Yes, its true there were migrant workers for many decades terribly exploited, but our cities were not being overrun with millions upon millions of illegals from south of the border. There are all kinds of "hidden" costs. Don't kid yourself folks.

Tom

[hiss srq]

Bottom line is we need to get the illegal workers out. Heres a good solution. Get rid of the immigrants and scrutinize the welfare program a little better. There are too many sap sucking Americans on welfare doing nothing driving an escalade while collecting a welfare check and letting the kids starve. Kick welfare out the door and make these people do the unskilled worker jobs immigrants are currently doing. It is a good idea. I am not one for goverment subsidizeing (if that is how you spell it) but something that would make sense in that realm is to create a goverment program to help farms and such to cope with it. Or get the farms involved in a program of sorts. We need to find ways to drive the immigrants back out. At this point even if we block up the boarders it is not going to work. We need to end inscentive for things like this.

I saw a video recently related to this issue that presented a pretty funny yet good idea. That though my firends is probably a story for another time.

[NIKV69]

And, I agree with Moose. The companies that hire these illegals need to face HUGE fines and people need to do jail time.


Be careful what you wish for, cause if the labor cost goes up due to getting rid of migrant workers so does the price of most everything. Big time.

[PhilDernerJr]

Illegal immigration employment is so rampant these days, that it makes me wonder if we even have enough American workers to fill the jobs, low pay or not.

How will the higher cost of production and therefore higher cost of goods affect our international trade?

[Tom_Turner]

Some commentary from Dr. Sowell on illegal immigrantion/immigrants:

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/colu ... 006&page=1 (http://www.townhall.com/columnists/column.aspx?UrlTitle=bordering_on_fraud&ns=ThomasSowell&dt=05/23/2006&page=1)


How many times have we heard that illegal aliens are taking "jobs that Americans won't do"? Just what specifically are those jobs?

Even in occupations where illegals are concentrated, such as agriculture, cleaning, construction, and food preparation, the great majority of the work is still being done by people who are not illegal aliens.

The highest concentration of illegals is in agriculture, where they are 24 percent of the people employed. That means three-quarters of the people are not illegal aliens. But when will the glib phrase-mongers stop telling us that the illegals are simply taking "jobs that Americans won't do"?