Which School is Better???

[madcatimages]

UND
http://www.avit.und.edu/f1_Home/index.php

or ER?
http://www.erau.edu/index.html

[hiss srq]

UND is best. Do not piss your cash away at Riddle. Riddle is a rip off.

[INTENSS]

UND is best. Do not piss your cash away at Riddle. Riddle is a rip off.

And you know this because.....??


-Rich

[cancidas]

riddle is a rip off. i went there while i was in AZ and i can atest that you'll get the same education anywhere. thier flight training is thorough, very throrough but if you want to spend $400 on an hour-long flight in a 172 be my guest.


now i know accomplished pilots that went to riddle and today have a great career. also, i know many pilots who went to a community college, got an associates degree in something, a bachelors in something else and spent the rest of thier money on flight training. bottom line is this, aviation today is not what it was 20 years ago. all people care about is money these days, so if you want to spend boat loads of cash and have a nice diploma hanging on your wall they by all mean, go to ERAU. personally, i would stay away from aviation schools. get a degree in whatever but get a degree. worry about flying separately from school.


after high school, i had a choice of 4 or 5 schools. i visited each one and wasn't really impressed by any. i ended up letting the army pay for most of it and ended up at ERAU in AZ. to be honest, i should have stayed in tacoma and went to a community college.

[Futterman]

Boiler Up! :)

http://www.purdue.edu

[engine46]

UND is best. Do not piss your cash away at Riddle. Riddle is a rip off.

Please do tell of your experiences.

By the way, we're currently flying some of UND's birds.


if you want to spend $400 on an hour-long flight in a 172 be my guest.

I don't know where you get this number from. A C172, conventional OR NavIII w/ G1000 cockpits [which they will all be after this summer] are $92 an hour, plus around $49 for instruction. $150 is not $400.

I was accepted to a few major aviation programs and chose ERAU. A lot of money? Absolutely. I guess it's just me, but I view an education as en investment, not just an expense. And when I get to fly better aircraft that are better maintained and held to higher standards, I certainly don't see it as a "ripoff". Would I have gotten the same ratings anywhere else? Yes. However, having nearly every regional lower its minimums to ERAU grads, offer CRJ courses and pretty good networking is something I wanted to have available to me.


People choose to go there for their own reasons. If you hated it and have your reasons, that's fine- but don't give a biased opinion to someone trying to decide.

[USAF Pilot 07]

Here's a little bit of what I've personally seen from several ERAU grads, now flight instructors. I wrote this in the Jacksonville University thread a while back (located here http://nycaviation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5682&highlight=erau)...

I'm really no expert in the field, but all of the powered flying in our flying training program here (Air Force Academy) is contracted out to Embry Riddle.
*Update, the Air Force is dropping ERAU's contract in September of 2007 completely. Don't know specifically why, though.*

A lot of the instructor pilots are ERAU graduates... and very cynical ERAU graduates might I add. While they are really nice people and all, and enjoyed their time at ERAU, many of them bitch at how expensive it was to go there, how they can barely survive because of the loans they have to pay off, and how graduating there has gotten them no further than "joe schmo" who went and did it the cheap way. In fact, a lot of them said if they had to do it all over again, they wouldn't go to ERAU, and they may not even have chosen to fly.

Now, I'm sure that not everyone from ERAU feels like that, and that many are really happy at their jobs, this is just what I've personally seen.

Also, if you're looking to fly for any of the airlines, it seems that all they care about are hours. All everyone talked about here was "I need to get X more hours to be competitive for a regional carrier". Therefore, going the cheapest possible way seems to be the way to go, so that you aren't paying off loans 10 years down the road.

[hiss srq]

I know this because I did a few programs and I have flown with many many people who went to Riddle as I was looking at the school. Why do you need to blow 60 grand on your first two years to NOT FLY really too much at all. Than there is the ever important fact that you can spend the first 2 years getting the same classes and credits at a community college for less than half the cost. Than there is the fact that you have to in most cases pay for your air time as well on top of the degree you going for. I will not argue the engineering classes there are second to none bot otherwise I would say go elsewhere for your time. More bang for your buck and on a side note the girls look like DOGS at the Florida campus.
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j157/jetjocksrq/peewee1winsagain.jpg

[madcatimages]

I forgot to mention that my tution would be paid, through MET. (something like that)

with that said, which is better?

I was leaning toward ER (whatever u want to intial it) b/c they offer engineering courses in the aviation field. I want to be an airline pilot though, but I figured I could always fall back on electrical engineering.

I was kind of thinking of doing to FL instead of AZ, if that makes a diff.
Thanks!

[moose135]

...and on a side note the girls look like DOGS at the Florida campus.

Well, there's a well-thought argument, Ryan.

[hiss srq]

Hey it is something that I looked at and I am sure alot of other guys also look ath wen selecting a college I think personally. So why not toss it out there.

[JetBlueAirwaysFan]

Well, I think that ERAU will have a better Aviation Business program. I think they both have their strengths and weaknesses.

[Mellyrose]

Hey it is something that I looked at and I am sure alot of other guys also look ath wen selecting a college I think personally. So why not toss it out there.

Well, from the looks of your posts on this board, you obviously selected the best college - and how couldn't you have, considering your criteria?! :roll:

[hiss srq]

I never said that females were the critical factor but can I ever add a little bit of color without getting a third degree? I am pretty happy with my choices in life. I think I have accomplished plenty based on what I have learned and done and I feel safe to say that riddle is not worth it for what you can get for the same cost at other schools.

[cancidas]

cancidas wrote:
if you want to spend $400 on an hour-long flight in a 172 be my guest.


I don't know where you get this number from.

while i was there one of my roomates would come back from a flight that cost that much while the other who went to a flight school paid half of that. if today's prices are cheaper then i appologize. i speak only from experience.

[engine46]

Points taken. In response:

-Yes the USAF will no longer be using ERAU. However, as of 2005, ERAU has been training Jetblue's sim instructors; a nice link to the industry.

-Obviously you won't have as many girls at a 5,000 student technical school as you will at a 50,000 'everything' school. But it has gotten better. And if you don't mind 3 months of spring break with a cheer week that brings in cheerleaders from all over the country for an entire week, then Daytona is the place for you.

-The thought of majoring in something other than aeronautical science [flight/professional pilot] is a great one. You can do whatever you want here, even human factors or communications, and still fly and get all your ratings. However, many of the minimum hour requirements at airlines and internship opportunities, etc. will not apply if you are not in the AS program.

-About not flying the first two years, again I don't know where this came from. On average, the first two years are getting you from zero to private/multi instrument. Of course, some do more and some do less but on average that's how it goes. That's decent flying time, I think.

-As for ERAU grads being miserable, well that's not the school's doing, that's each individual. If you want to graduate with tons of loans and bitch and whine, that's your problem. If you want to graduate and work hard and pay those off and get to where you want to be, that's fine too. Some just don't realize how hard they have to work and it's easier to just blame the school for their lack of success.

[stuart schechter]

For me, I want to go into the ATC industry. I have 3 choices that I have seen. ERAU, UND, and Daniel Webster. They all seem really good. For me money isn't really an issue.

[USAF Pilot 07]

In response to your last point engine:

I don't see people from ERAU blaming the school, moreso themselves. They were under the false pretense that going to ERAU would just about automatically land them an airline job, and that ERAU grads came out substantially ahead of non-ERAU grads. Keep in mind, a lot of them went there pre-9/11, so this could be a reason for that kind of mindset. The reality, at least articulated by them, was that this isn't the case, and that hours is all the airlines care about.

I don't think anyone is saying that ERAU isn't a great school. It is probably a great place to learn to fly. But, it's not the only place. If money is absolutely no factor in deciding, then yea ERAU is a great choice. But, what you get at ERAU, in terms of flying, is just about the same that you get at any other flying college. Other colleges are just cheaper. Imagine having to pay 60K, maybe more, back when you are only making between 20 and 30K a year. It certainly makes life tough.

[PhilDernerJr]

... on a side note the girls look like DOGS at the Florida campus.

Funny. I was talking to a girl at ERAU recently who said US Airways ramp guys need to shower more. ;)

But seriously, I think that when it comes to college, you pay more at palces that might not necessarily get your the best education, but where the name of the place you get takes you a little further. I think this is one of those situations. ERAU probably looks better than most other aviation schools.

[INTENSS]

Well, I think that ERAU will have a better Aviation Business program. I think they both have their strengths and weaknesses.

SUNY Farmingdale used to have an Airline Management program a few years ago too. You might want to check them out as well. When I was looking into these programs while in high school it came down to the actual courses. Riddle's curriculum was geared more specifically to aviation business than general business/management. It really comes down to the individual, what you're looking to get out of it. If you're more worried about what the ladies look like, I'd recommend going to a big state party school.....otherwise check out the actual programs and talk to alumni (not necessarily those that dropped out because they wanted to party on the beach instead of focusing on their studies).

-Rich

[hiss srq]

[quote="hiss srq":30c6d]... on a side note the girls look like DOGS at the Florida campus.

Funny. I was talking to a girl at ERAU recently who said US Airways ramp guys need to shower more. ;)

But seriously, I think that when it comes to college, you pay more at palces that might not necessarily get your the best education, but where the name of the place you get takes you a little further. I think this is one of those situations. ERAU probably looks better than most other aviation schools.[/quote:30c6d]

ha hahahaa Thank god I am not a ramper than lmao.

[engine46]

I agree some blame themselves. That's why I said it's all about the mindset. Sure, you'll be screwed the first few years making 30k as a reserve guy at a regional, but once that's all over and youre at a major, up in seniority, flying the line internationally or as a check airman, it'll all be good, and that's what we need to keep our minds on. Gotta have something to work hard and look forward to. If it were any easier, everyone would be doing it!

[hiss srq]

I agree with you engine. I just think that maybe Riddle is a little over hyped. I do not take away from the name and such but for being a pilot I think there might just be easier ways to go. You get your name in good places faster with Riddle but the business is farther and farther fron that and more and more about who you know as a pilot. It may work for some but for me personally I did not see it as a good deal. If money is no issue to you than go for it but this industry is hard to come up in and be happy with.


There are fewer and fewer "shooting stars" out there lately. Quality of education is important and I rank cost vs. amount of education second and than atmosphere third.

[USAF Pilot 07]

I agree some blame themselves. That's why I said it's all about the mindset. Sure, you'll be screwed the first few years making 30k as a reserve guy at a regional, but once that's all over and youre at a major, up in seniority, flying the line internationally or as a check airman, it'll all be good, and that's what we need to keep our minds on.

I agree, but I think this is why people are unhappy with riddle. Because they think as soon as they finish riddle they will get a job at a regional as a reserve, and in a few years everything will be on the up and up. Some of my IPs this summer (riddle folks) were showing me the applications to various regional airlines, and each one required somewhere around 1,000 hours, with twin engine time prefered. For every regional slot, there are probably somewhere in the ballpark of 15 people fighting for it. No one is going to get the hours needed to be competitive at any college, they are going to be working as a CFI right after graduation.

So the mindset of "it's just a few years making 30K and then I'll be making something more respectable" is not entirely true for most people. It's more like "I'll be working my ass off the next 5 years, making 25K a year, and then maybe be competitive enough for a reserve slot at a regional. Therefore the respectable money comes somewhere like 9-12 years after finishing up college. If you have 60K+ in loans to pay off starting right after graduation, you can see how many people are having hard times making ends meet. Couple that with maybe wanting to start a family and the like, and it is very tough.

ERAU, great school with a great name, but if you're paying your loans off after graduation, expect a lot more of a bare bones lifestyle than if you go to a state school or something. I think most people are looking at the cost benefit analysis of going to ERAU versus another aviation school, and in most cases the cost outweighs the benefits at ERAU, especially if you are paying everything out of pocket.

[engine46]

Maybe times have changed since you spoke to them. Some regionals are going as low as 300TT/25ME. You certainly do NOT need over 1000 hours to go to a regional these days, at least not with an ERAU degree.

[USAF Pilot 07]

Last summer was the last time I've talked to most of them (I have talked to one or two since), and there were definately people there with over 500 hours, who couldn't land a regional job. Most said they would apply again around 800...

[USAF Pilot 07]

So I was somewhat curious as to what the requirements at some of these regionals were, just as a FYI type thing, so I went and looked at some of the regional carriers' and their MINIMUM requirements for consideration...

PIEDMONT AIRLINES:
Total Time: 1500
Multi-Engine Time: 300

AIR WISCONSIN:
1000 hours total flight time
250 hours multi-engine

HORIZON AIR:
Minimum 1,000 hours of total flight time
Minimum 100 hours multi-engine

SKYWEST:
1,000 - hours total time
100 - hours multi engine

AMERICAN EAGLE:
800 Total Fixed Wing Hours
100 Hours Multi-Engine

COMAIR:
600 Total Flight Hours
100 Total Multi-Engine Hours

MESABA:
600 Total Hours (Fixed Wing)
· 50 Total Multi Engine Hours
· 100 Hours Instrument (combination aircraft and/or simulator)

MESA AIR GROUP:
500 hours Total Time
100 hours Multi Engine Time, Fixed Wing

ASA:
500 hours total time
50 hours multi-engine time

These are the requirements for some of the midsize/larger regional carriers, who often feed into major airlines.

The hours listed on these websites are the MINIMUMS required to even be looked at. Most also said that most applicants, and/or HIRED applicants have more than the minimum hours...

So while yes, maybe airlines have been lowering the mins, there is still a large pool of candidates for a select number of slots, and those with the greater number of hours (probably between 750 and 1000) are the ones getting the jobs..