Who would you fly to France?

[kc2aqg]

Hi All-

So I have been lucky enough to have been selected for a one week trip to France for work in June. And of course, what is the first thing to enter my mind: who will I fly? (Yet even more concrete proof that I am OBSESSED! 8) ) I am not sure whether we will fly to Paris or whether we will be connecting onward to Lyon or another southern-France destination. My plan is probably going to either go direct to CDG or connect through CDG, so let's consider that my ending point for now. Now here are my "restrictions":

1) I will not fly American as of this moment. I have my reasons, and if you want the whole story, I'll post it. But my last experience with them a few weeks ago was a nightmare in almost every respect, so I don't feel like they deserve my company's money at this moment.
2) I have a fair amount of miles on Delta, and a roundtrip to Europe on a Skyteam carrier would give me enough for a free ticket, so I think I would like to fly on any of the Skyteam alliance carriers.

So based on those two criterion, who would you fly? Thanks for your input!

Andy
KC2AQG

[PhilDernerJr]

If I had to go to France I'd fly a plane that doesn't carry enough fuel to get there.

I'm kidding. Kinda.

I would never set foot on an Air France aircraft, though, for political reasons.

[SoPictureThis]

Air France 77W all the way! woohoo!!

j

[hiss srq]

Well if Airbus broke my arm to fly over to France and say give me a type in one of their aircraft (the only way to get me to France as well) I would fly Delta (sorry US)

[mirrodie]

wow, already an Anti-American and an Anti- French post.

Andy, whAAt is your AAnti-AA story?


I just read your clauses, so here it goes....go with a Star Alliance carrier to CDG and take the TGV train from Gare de Lyon(in Paris) to Lyon. It's a 2 hr trip on a doubledecker TGV train doing 200 mph and its lovely scenery. Actually its an incredible ride, landsoaring through fields adn villages. The flight might be shorter but with security, dealing with the airport, etc, the train to Lyon is just as long.

Andy, that is the best way really.

Or, if you have a little fluff time, Fly BA into LHR and rail it from there, though it is longer.

[nwafan20]

If you want to fly SkyTeam, do it! I agree, no Air France though. Plus, you don't want to be on a dirty plane do you? ;)

[USAF Pilot 07]

Air France! Great service...

Never fly an American Carrier, as well as Air India, overseas, unless you absolutely have to.

[nwafan20]

Air France! Great service...

Never fly an American Carrier, as well as Air India, overseas, unless you absolutely have to.

Air France, from France!!! :evil:

[Iberia A340-600]

I'd fly Air France or KLM (via AMS) all the way. I have flown Air France 20 times and would gladly fly them another 20. Try to get on AF10 and AF7 since they are operated by the 777-300ER and 747-400 and if you fly the 747-400 try to get a seat on the upper deck, they have economy up there.

[markg]

Fly L'avion from Newark!

Or CO to Paris then on an AF A318!

[Ari707]

AF I have flown them 2 rt in the last 6 months and it was great, the seats are a bit tight, but the food and service is great!!!!IFE is good nice choice of movies and shows,

If you fly the 777-300 try for row 18 it the first row of coach hugh amount of legroom but no window, or upperdeck of the 747-400

[JetBlueAirwaysFan]

Delta. Since you have FF Mileage with Skyteam, (Skymiles I presume?) I would go with Delta from JFK-CDG. Take a nice train ride to Lyon, that would be a sight I would say!

[JetBlueAirwaysFan]

By the way, I don't like AA either because of their bologna about the Wright Amendment.

[Iberia A340-600]

Delta. Since you have FF Mileage with Skyteam, (Skymiles I presume?) I would go with Delta from JFK-CDG. Take a nice train ride to Lyon, that would be a sight I would say!

I would go with Air France before going with Delta any day. Air France has comfortable seats, great service, great food, and a good IFE system. Maybe when Delta has their updated interiors with all their planes packing PTVs, then maybe I would fly them to Paris.

[hiss srq]

I am against Air France all the way so I will take a Delta 767 but to compromise I would probably fly Swiss to Zurich and than fly to France from there.

[Iberia A340-600]

Sorry if I am missing something that is really obvious but why is everyone against Air France?

[T-Bird76]

I'd try for a 777, both AA and DL's 767s are real **** boxes unless your in F class. Try for CO, you'll get Skyteam miles to. You might even want to try US out of PHL, their A330s are a nice ride.

[Iberia A340-600]

I'd try for a 777, both AA and DL's 767s are real **** boxes unless your in F class. Try for CO, you'll get Skyteam miles to. You might even want to try US out of PHL, their A330s are a nice ride.

I agree with Tommy on Continental, I'd give them a go. They have great service.

However my mom would disagree about the US Airways A330-300 ride. ;)

[Winglets747]

I would also like to know what the big anti-AF deal is all about.

Having actually flown AF, I would recommend them. My trip (both legs on 77W) was excellent with no problems. If you do go with AF, be sure to check what fare bucket you're booking into; some AF flights will only earn 25% mileage.

I would avoid CO if you're flying Y. I've been hearing more and more bad experiences of int'l CO flights. Then again, if you get the 777 you may get AVOD if that's a priority. For other SkyTeam airlines, you could consider NW's 330 DTW-CDG.

Are you flying in Y? Also, are you paying for your flights or your company?

[kc2aqg]

Wow, I had no idea this would stir such anti-French sentiment. I'm glad I got so many responses though. I've never been on the 772, 773, or 744 before, so I'm thinking any of those with any of the Skyteam carriers would work (DL, AF, KL, AZ). I also like the idea of the train ride from CDG, as it's a great opportunity to photograph and see some great scenery. I'm also kind of hoping to catch an A318 since I haven't flown that bird yet either. Hmm, lots of decisions to make. Thanks for all of your input, I really appreciate it!

EDIT: Sorry, saw some question right after I posted. I'm definitely not paying for the flight, the company is. I'm also not sure whether I can fly economy or business class, but I think company policy for int'l travel is bus. I'll have to do some research on that one.

Now my AA story...

The short version:
American first lost my bag for 12 hours, then it came to me broken. After wasting many hours on the phone and on lines at the airport negotiating a reasonable solution to get the bag fixed, I go to drop it off and there was nobody working at JFK. American's operations at both JFK and MIA were a complete mess with hundreds if not thousands of passengers waiting in lines with no AA employees in sight. When you finally found people to ask where to go and what to do, nobody had an answer. Dealing with the not only the baggage service agents, but simply asking gate agents for help was a nightmare and not a single one demonstrated any kind of competence at their job. Nor did a single AA employee ever give the impression that they were sorry they broke my bag or that they inconvenienced me at all.

The long version, for those who have some time or like pain:
About a month ago I went on a cruise with a few friends out of Miami, so naturally I decided to fly AA from JFK-MIA roundtrip on the 762. We arrived at JFK for our departure about two and a half hour early and there weren't enough kiosks for the thousands of people waiting around. So we waited for about 25 minutes for a kiosk to open up. Got my boarding pass, proceeded to check my luggage where there was another line with hundreds of people and about 7 AA employees working behind the desk calling one person/family at a time by name. We waited another 45 minutes before they called me, not even my friends who waited longer. Basically, this was the most disorganized and understaffed operation I've seen at JFK. Nobody on any of the lines was happy about it and all thought it should have been run much better. We almost missed our flight because of the backlog, but luckily made it by about 10 minutes. When we get to Miami, we wait by the baggage claim. It took some time, but eventually my friends bags come out. We're waiting for mine...and waiting...and finally the carousel stops. So I ask one of the agents who promptly brushes me off and tells me to go to baggage service. I go to baggage service and wait a half hour just to talk to someone. I talk to the agent and he says they have no way of tracking where the bag is, the little bar coded tags they slap on the bags aren't used. So he doesn't know where the bag is or when it will arrive in MIA: perfect when you're getting on a cruise ship for a week the following day! He tells me I should go to my hotel and wait and call their automated system every few hours. How comforting.

Fast forward to that night around 11:30, I'm walking around the hotel lobby and I see the delivery guy bringing the bag to the bell desk. I issue a small cheer before I see that one of the latches (non-lockable latches mind you) that seals the suitcase closed is completely sheared off and the suitcase is hanging slightly open. I didn't mind that the bag was lost so much, but lost and then broken to the point where it won't close properly, I was fuming. I call the baggage service line and the line cuts me off three times over the course of an hour before I hang up. By now I've wasted in excess of 3 hours of my day waiting on American.

So I call back the next day and finally get a human being on the line and she says I should take the suitcase back to the airport before I get on the ship. My interpretation: I should waste more of my vacation time and drag my friends back to the airport to deal with more incompetent people and meanwhile have no place to put any of my clothing and no means of getting it on the cruise ship. That was a quick no. I asked them if I could take the suitcase somewhere to get fixed and then bill American, and they tell me that this is not their policy and won't pay for it. So I convinced them into noting the damage report on my lost bag record so that I could take it to the baggage service office at the airport on my way back to JFK. She agrees that this is a good solution. So I buy a luggage strap to keep the thing closed so that I can travel with the bag.

Fast forward to the next week. We get to MIA and there are lines everywhere and no AA employees in sight. I wait on the baggage service line for another half hour and finally talk to an agent. She tells me that I should leave my bag in MIA and they'll give me a loaner to transport my things to JFK. Not a great solution in my opinion. So I ask why I can't take the bag to JFK and offload my clothes there and give them the bag. She says fine, but her attitude was less than spectacular from the start. She notes her approval that they should fix the bag in my file.

On a personal note, we were supposed to arrive at 4:30 and I had tickets to see The Who with my family for that night at 7:30. You would think 3 hours would be enough time for regular operations and a fairly clear day. Well...we get up in the air and we're around Washington DC when the captain comes on and says that an aircraft disabled a runway at JFK and we won't have enough fuel to keep circling in the line that has been created. We need to go to Newark. We circle for about 20 minutes more and the captain informs us we won't have enough fuel to make Newark, we need to go to IAD. So we divert to IAD, refuel, and I miss my concert by a long shot (which I was pissed about, especially since I bought the tickets for the family). We get in around 8:30 and I collect my bag (which I'm amazed to see actually come off the carousel), go to the baggage service office at JFK and there isn't a single soul in sight. At that point it was late and we were travelling the whole day, I left the airport and came back the following week after spotting the A380 on 3/19 and dropped the bag off then, but not before waiting an hour again on line with other disgruntled passengers. When the guy took my bag, I asked how they would contact me when it was done. He said they would contact me at my hotel...in New York...once again AA employees demonstrate their competence. So I wrote out every phone number I could think of and gave it to him and as I'm walking away, I watch him curtly throw the piece of paper in my open suitcase and push it aside.



So the moral of the story is that I have no confidence in American's operation at JFK or MIA, no confidence that any of their employees have any desire to help their customers, nor that their agents (who should be the front line to their customers, mind you) have any competence at their jobs whatsoever. The flight crews were fine, and I have no beefs with them at all. I would only fly AA again if I could print my boarding pass at home, walk on with only carry-on's, and not have to talk to any AA employees/agents at all.

Whew, that was a lot of writing. So it's skyteam for me from here on in, and I've made a small promise to myself to avoid giving AA money for a while, until I hear through the grapevine that there have been some changes.

[SoPictureThis]

ya...wtf anti-frenchness??? you haters are offending my french half!! :evil:

jMay

[VikHathi]

AF omelettes are rubbery. Course this was about 10 years ago when I last traveled on AF. They may have fixed the problem by now.

-Vik

[tipek]

If I had to go to France I would take Air France. I took AF B777 from CDG to IAD about 8 years ago. Great flight and good food.
But now you would have to put a gun to my head to make me even think about going to France.
CDG terminal is even worst then JetBlue's terminal at JFK :)

Rafal

[VikHathi]

So how was the cruise?


American first lost my bag for 12 hours, then it came to me broken. After wasting many hours on the phone and on lines at the airport negotiating a reasonable solution

I always slide a $1 tip under my baggage strap if I want it to get to its destination. Kinda like tipping a stripper. Until RFIDs tags come about, this is the best way to deal with human involvement.

-Vik

[kc2aqg]

The cruise was great, pretty much a week of straight drinking for all of us. What could be better than carribean sun, ocean, and lots of girls running around a cruise ship? Everything about the trip except for the AA experience was great!

[mirrodie]

I also like the idea of the train ride from CDG, as it's a great opportunity to photograph and see some great scenery. I'm also kind of hoping to catch an A318 since I haven't flown that bird yet either.

Well, I'm the worst person to ask regarding where teh 318 flies, but I say if the A318 is in use in the USA at all, skip in in France an TGV it.

You will not hit 357mph as they did in that new record, but you avg 200 MPH on the Paris-Lyon route. feel free to PM me, I took a few short videos of the ride as we whoosed past these quaint french villages.


I had no idea this would stir such anti-French sentiment

The most recent anti-french rant dates back to the uber-mature Freedom fires movement that took began in Congressional cafeterias.

Personally, I just won't go out of my way to fly the airline that realistically put an end to supersonic service.

As for the AA luggage experience, I know. I've been through 3 luggage 'losses' where the luggage came back to me within 48 hours. All since 1999. I finally wrote AA about it and got 10K miles.

The luggage policy they have in place is common. I know BA does the same thing. But the lack of personnel and apathy is the problem.

Andy, this is to cheer you up ;) Fly AA because AF omelettes are rubbery. ;)
<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/pNfPUec3lHE" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed>

[VikHathi]

Interesting video. Probably used in AA internal relations for new hires. Its funny to see how the baggage handlers in and around the aircraft take such pristine care in handling bags, when in reality I always see them catapulting them onto the conveyor belt.
-Vik

[Clipper]

I traveled to France about 6 times a year for the last 6-7 years and I used to fly AF out of LAX and JFK. Their service sucks and their Rockwell Collins IFE system never worked 100%, not even in the C and F class cabins. I couldn't tell you how many times I watched the first 30 minuets of the same movie, over and over again while they reset the system.

AF lost may bag on one of my trip to TLS last year, my bag went to Tunisia and was not returned to me until three days after I go back to the US, someone took my suit and toiletry bag while it was sightseeing down in Africa :x. They gave me 200 euros 36 hours after I report the lost bag and never said the word "Sorry", making two claims on the same luggage tag number was almost impossible, my company paid over $12 K for the F class ticket. I was in TLS meeting with AF senior management and wore the same khaki and sneakers I was on the flight with, they told me to never fly AF if I have a choice, how is that for a lost bag story?

I now stick with AA and CO if all possible, the connection to smaller cities at CDG and LHR sucks but better than AF's service any day. :(