On a B6 A320 for 3+ hours - and it's OK!

[kc2aqg]

So maybe I'm unrealistic, but last night I flew out of JFK on jetBlue flight# 22 from JFK to SYR. We boarded at about 10:30, where we proceeded to sit at the gate because the computer that manages the anti-ice system was acting up on the previous flight and the mechanics wanted to manually force the bleed valves open for the flight. So we sat for a little over an hour at the gate, then waited in line for deicing, then actually got deiced and took off shortly after at about 1:20, where we landed at about 2:10. We were on the aircraft for about 3 and a half hours.

Lately we've seen all of these stories bashing jetBlue about keeping passengers pent up for hours at a time. I can understand the opinions from some of the folks that were stuck for 8-10 hours, but I think the media is pushing the story way too far. Yes we were stuck for a few hours on the ground before getting in the air, no we didn't have the DirecTV activated until we got deiced (not quite sure why), and no we were not served drinks or snacks before we took off. And no, we did not receive any compensation. So what is the big deal? I thought jetBlue handled the situation quite well by not cancelling the flight. Considering that I had an important work event here in SYR today that I really did not want to miss, I was just glad to make it. It would have been much worse if they cancelled in my opinion. So even if we were on the aircraft for a few hours for a 35 minute flight, what is the big deal and why does everyone, most notably the media, keep harping on B6 for getting us to our destination in a safe manner? It should be obvious that timeliness goes out the window when snow and ice fall, especially at JFK. So why is this such a big deal?

Props to B6 for handling the situation quite well last night, geting me to SYR safely and my brother back to ROC in time for his morning classes. Sorry for the rant, but I've had enough of these know-it-all media drama queens who keep bashing the airline for nothing. ::Breathes a sigh of relief::

Andy
KC2AQG

[T-Bird76]

From B6's bill of rights...
Customers who experience a Ground Delay on Departure for 3-4 hours are entitled to a $100 Voucher good for future travel on JetBlue.

If you didn't receive this I'd say they owe you based on their own policy. Your giving them props? Props for what, sitting there staring at the back of another seat? I really don't understand where the stellar customer service is in your story? Sounds like there wasn't any.

[Matt Molnar]

Some of the media treatment is sensationalism, but I think most of it is unavoidable. First off, the airline is based in the media capital of the world, where any public screw up by a major company is automatically magnified and rebroadcast to the rest of the country. If that major company involves airline safety and convenience, multiply the effect by 50. Second, jetBlue is a media darling known for their extraordinary customer service, so when they screwed up it was extremely disappointing, thereby making it big news. Had this been AA stranding customers at JFK for 10 hours and canceling 1100 flights over the course of week, it would have been news, but probably not nearly as big because no one expects much from them or any of the legacies in terms of customer service. Had it happened in Dallas, or Minneapolis, it wouldn't have been more than an AP wire story.

[RDU-JFK]

The media loves seeing JetBlue have problems. It's like when the smart kid fails a test in school, or if the Yankees or my Duke Blue Devils lose a key game. Just look at Duke Lacrosse scandal--if it were the same scenario in most other schools we would not have had much media attention. But since Duke is an elite academic institution also known for its athletics, the media latches onto it.

Same with JetBlue.

[kc2aqg]

Good point GothamSpotter, it makes sense. But it still is very sensationalistic and I think it's way over the top by now. I thought they handled last night very well only in that they still let the flights go. The crew was very apologetic and you could almost feel the "tail between the legs" feeling of we screwed up and we're sorry.

Tommy - I definitely don't think there was stellar customer service, nor did I praise them for that. I do praise them for working to get the flights out, even with a delay. After last week's disaster, it looked more and more like they were going to overreact and cancel everything at the first sign of bad weather. I'm glad they didn't and believe me, both the maintenance techs, the deice guys (at 1:00 AM mind you), and the flight crew all worked to get us to our destinations, albeit a little bit late. The media would have you believe that sitting on the plane for 3+ hours was a nightmare, but it wasn't. They worked late and got us where we needed to go. That's the point I was trying to make. The rest is just sensationalism.

[Midnight Mike]

The media loves seeing JetBlue have problems. It's like when the smart kid fails a test in school, or if the Yankees or my Duke Blue Devils lose a key game. Just look at Duke Lacrosse scandal--if it were the same scenario in most other schools we would not have had much media attention. But since Duke is an elite academic institution also known for its athletics, the media latches onto it.

Same with JetBlue.

When things were going good with Jetblue, they were the media darling, what Jetblue is finding out how the media works when things go bad.

So far, Jetblue is handling the storm pretty good.....

[PhilDernerJr]

Tommy, what do you think that JetBlue shouldhave done differently? Do you think they are the only airline that has similar issues with average day-to-day delays?

[hiss srq]

Tommy is overly pampered thats all. LOL **** happens and you go on in this business. Unortuneately life is not flawless and things will happen.

[T-Bird76]

Tommy, what do you think that JetBlue shouldhave done differently? Do you think they are the only airline that has similar issues with average day-to-day delays?
Perhaps come through with their bill of rights. If its true about the time then he should have been given a voucher as per their new policy, but that wasn't mentioned. Phil I've sat for hours on the taxiway before with B6 and other airlines, they serve you drinks, snacks, turn the TV's on etc. In this case it sounded like none of that happened. The Deicing has nothing to do with not serving drinks or turning the PTV's on. Deicing doesn't take three hours its take about 15 mins.

kc2aqg made it sound that jetBlue did something out of the ordinary which I failed to see. B6 got him to his destination, that's what they are supposed to do, that's what airlines do get you from point A to point B, sorry but I'm not giving any airline props for doing what they advertise. kc2aqg did you get a voucher for being on a ground delay for three hours?

[hiss srq]

Tommy did you do what I do and just scan? They had a issue with bleed air for deice that needed to be fixed as that is a critical flight item and had to sit in a que for de ice on the ground.

[T-Bird76]

Tommy did you do what I do and just scan? They had a issue with bleed air for deice that needed to be fixed as that is a critical flight item and had to sit in a que for de ice on the ground.

Yes I read that, I still fail to see what that has to do with not turning on the PTVs, one has nothing to do with another, either a crew decision or some operational rule. However if the time is true he still should have got a voucher for the time, right or wrong?

[hiss srq]

According to the bill of rights which I think is bull**** yes this is true but as far as when you are taxing which would be the case as you move through the que for deice the PTV should not be on as that is a distraction as far as safety goes in the event of a ground evac. But according to the bill you would be correct. On another note about that Fox aired a small clip today about how there were a few situations that have taken place over the last few days in which B6 did issue vouchers for pax.

[LGA777]

Deicing doesn't take three hours its take about 15 mins.

Tommy, you are one of the last people on here I would want to disagree with but on a lot of snow nights I have worked over the years 3 hours is closer than the 15 mins for deicing you mentioned due to the often long line of aircraft waiting to be deiced. Sunday night I worked Ramp Control and many of our Express aircraft waited over 2 hours in line for deicing and this is something that happens at least a few time every winter. You have two choices, either cancel most of your flights and most people go know where fast or run most, and due to real estate issues at LGA you endure a long wait to be deiced. Sunday night many people where completing there trips home from a week off and had work or school Monday morning and needed to get where they where going. While most did not enjoy the delays or very late night at least they got (safely) where they needed to be this morning.

Regards

LGA777

[PhilDernerJr]

Perhaps come through with their bill of rights. If its true about the time then he should have been given a voucher as per their new policy, but that wasn't mentioned.

I think it's an assumption of yours that they didn't. I would also assume, that for accounting reasons, that they don't jsut hand them out right there on the plane. I would assume, and actually hope, that it's something that gets mailed to the customer after the fact.


Phil I've sat for hours on the taxiway before with B6 and other airlines, they serve you drinks, snacks, turn the TV's on etc. In this case it sounded like none of that happened.

Another assumption.


The Deicing has nothing to do with not serving drinks or turning the PTV's on. Deicing doesn't take three hours its take about 15 mins.

I reread the original post, and figure it like this:

They boarded at 10:30pm. That doesn't mean they were scheduled to pushback at that time, and I don't think that sitting ont he aircraft before pushback should count towards a "3 hour delay". Pushback time was not mentioned, and I think it would be helpful in figuring out a timeline.

Next, from what I read, it wasn't three hours waiting for deicing, but the first hour was with an anti-ice system, which is a mechnical part of the aircraft. That's a maintenence issue. He said that lasted over an hour, when in fact it could have lasted only 20 minutes past pushback time, which we don't know what it was yet.

That would mean a 2 hour wait for deicing. JetBlue deicing is done near their rmeote hardstand between T5 and T4, and requires tower clearance to get there, and muchof that is out of JetBlue's control. If it's during a busy evening, especially as Ron said, two hour is not that bad. Keep in mind that it seemed as though those two hours included deicing and taxiing to the runway. With a 1:20 takeoff time, the deicing and taxiing to the runway combined took less than two hours still.

My personal guess is that close to an hour of that was a long line to depart, as happens at that time of night. So that would only mean maybe 30 minutes to fix the mx issue with the anti-ice and 45 minutes to get deiced, which isn't bad at all.


kc2aqg made it sound that jetBlue did something out of the ordinary which I failed to see. B6 got him to his destination, that's what they are supposed to do, that's what airlines do get you from point A to point B, sorry but I'm not giving any airline props for doing what they advertise. kc2aqg did you get a voucher for being on a ground delay for three hours?

As I explained, there wasn't a ground delay of 3 hours by any menas. It sounded liek there was constnat movement and progress (albeit slow perhaps) and totalling under 3 hours still.

I think think you were a little aggressive in attacking JetBlue, when this issue seems like one that any airline would have, and since their storm issue two weeks ago, they've showed more effort to fix the problem than any airline I've ever seen.

Maybe he looked at the conditions out there and was surprised the delay wasn't worse and wanted to tigve them props. It was his experience and if he wants to give them credit, then that's up to him.

[T-Bird76]

Phil I don't think I attacked B6 at all. I'm simply quoted from there own bill of rights and based off of what was said it sound like they should have been given a voucher or informed they would get one. An attack would have been something to the effect that "oh look another snow storm and B6 fails to come through again." My post is an observation based off of information provided or the lack of information provided. An observation is far from an attack so please don't accuse me of attacking.

[PhilDernerJr]

I think I'll attack you for thinking you attacked JetBlue. :-p

I don't think his story would qualify as a 3-hour ground delay. Aside from evidence showing that various aspects were out of JetBlue's control, it didn't even total up to three hours.

Does anyone know their procedure for actually giving people those vouchers?

[kc2aqg]

Wow, I really didn't realize this topic would spark that much controversy. I'll clarify things a bit with timings to the best of my recollections:

10:30 - Boarded the aircraft
10:40 - Scheduled Departure Time
10:50 - Informed of maintenance issue
11:45 - Informed mx issue is fixed, waiting in line to push off the gate onto the ramp
12:10 - Pushed back and taxiied out to the deice pad at Twy Foxtrot
12:40 - Deicing commenced
12:50 - Deicing finished
1:00 - Off the ground
1:35 - On the ground at SYR

If you want the actual timings, you can check flightaware.com for jetBlue flight# 22 on the early morning of 12/26.

So to clarify, we were only on the airplane for about 10 minutes prior to the scheduled departure time, so the ground delay should be attributed from 10:40 on in my opinion. Also, keep in mind since SYR received a bunch of snow, we weren't off the plane until almost 2. The major portion of the delay was definitely due to the maintenance issue. Since the originating issue was a computer function, they cranked and shutdown the APU about 3 times before they decided to manually force the bleeds open. Between that and paperwork, I think that's what took so long. We also had a fair wait just to get pushed off the gate, and then another fair wait onto the deice pad, where we waited on Twy Fox next to the T5 construction just waiting for a pad to open up since they had a bunch of 10:40 & 11:30 flights.

I agree with Tommy in the fact that deicing nor the mx issue have to do with the fact that the TV wasn't activated until afterwards or that drinks/snacks weren't served while on the ground, and you can probably fault the flight crew on it. But it was a late night flight and people were sleeping, so I understand a little bit. I personally didn't care about the TV because I sat with my camera shooting and looking out the window the entire time.

We didn't receive vouchers on the airplane and it was never mentioned by the flight or ground crew. You could fault them on this too, but once again, I'm not in this to make money off of jetBlue, I was just glad to make it. If they offered me the voucher on the plane, in all honesty, (and feel free to call BS on me for this, but I had this thought even before I was taking this trip) I might have told them to keep the voucher, I'll still be a loyal customer.

Which brings me to my last point, which Phil hit the nail on the head: Based on the experience of the Valentine's day disaster, since its only been a week and a half, I wasn't sure of how much improvement they would have over their operation or how they would handle another storm. It was looking pretty grim at one point with between two and three inches of wet snow on the wing. While I'm not impressed with the way things were handled inside the cabin (TV etc), I was impressed with the crew attitudes and the fact that they worked hard enough to get us out. I think they should get props for improving their operation over a short period of time enough to get all of those flights out in fairly bad weather conditions.

I also would like to know about the procedure for giving out vouchers, since I just assumed it wasn't in effect yet (until I heard about that Fox story).