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NIKV69
09-26-2006, 10:25 AM
These encounters are getting kind of mundane the more they happen but this one was comical to say the least. I planned on hitting the booze hard at dinner Sunday but I kept it to a minimum and got up very early yesterday. So I jumped in the car for a morning shoot. Got to JFK quite early and enjoyed great sun. 31R was in use so I tried a few spots but as you would expect ended up with the fishermen at Costco. I noticed a grey Impala drive by in which both guys were looking my way. They wound up pulling up next to me about an hour later. I am guessing they were NCPD. The car was unmarked and this guy flashed his badge very quickly and I couldn't make anything out. After which I got the routine interrogation.

What are you doing?

Why are you all the way out here from BayShore? (this was funny because he asked me why I don't photograph at FRG or ISP) I explained you don't see many 747s at those airports. (Which was also funny because he seemed to know the answers to the questions he was asking me.)

Whats with the scanner? I explained it is a pilot radio etc etc.

He then did something I wasn't too happy about. I had my door ajar since I was exiting and entering my car between shots. I had my left leg in the door jam and he said in a nasty tone "It's better if we close this" and pushed my door shut. The door made my contact with my leg, not in a way to make much difference but I didn't view it as very professional. Well at this point I made it clear I displeased and while he was in his car running my info I went about my business and got out of the car twice to shoot. Well after 10 mins he returns hand me my license and says "take it easy boss" and zooms away without saying anything else. I found it interesting. Than an hour later a marked NCPD car drove by and didn't even look my way and then spun around and left the lot. Not sure if it had anything to do with me but just your normal day at Costco. Got some nice shots but by 11:30 the sun was directly over me so I split.

FlyingColors
09-26-2006, 02:15 PM
"What are you doing? "
Sure its routine, but its also strange. After observing you this chap has to ask this?! I'd dismiss it as a tactic of hoping for self entrapment. What more can it be? Perhaps they are hoping you will say something like the "b" word in a condescending phrase. Now you can be dragged in for all sorts of charges. An easy catch that looks good on there collar.

"Why are you all the way out here from BayShore" I love when I get that one and I'm from NJ. Guess your already skating on thin ice since your not a taxpayer in NC, go figure.

PhilDernerJr
09-26-2006, 02:54 PM
Entrapment? I call it a good police question to make sure that someone is up to no good. It's standard procedure, there is nothing wrong with it.

You seem to have a problem with Nick's encounter, but it looks like everything went just as it should (although I didn't understand the car door thing).

T-Bird76
09-26-2006, 03:06 PM
Seems pretty standard, typical COP attitude when one or two people are present, they seem to be a bit nicer when a there's a large group. The car door thing is understandable but he could have said "excuse me do you mind if I close your car door?"

NIKV69
09-26-2006, 03:14 PM
"What are you doing? "


I think it's not so much the words but the way it is asked. Yes Phil is right but I feel (In fact I know) that this question is asked to us in a way that means we should not be doing what we are doing. Legal or not. For the simple reason of the times we live in and people view it as suspicious.

My last few encounters even though the police danced on the edge of the envelop still left me thinking that they don't want us doing what we do for the simple reason of the path of least resistance. Which is fine but I still expect to be treated like a law abiding citizen till they find otherwise. It seems they love the approach of coming on very strong in the initial encounter and then back way off at the end of the encounter which we saw at the Cargo area with Moose and Eric and Pete. That was so bizarre but drove this point home.


(although I didn't understand the car door thing).

Now that I look back I think the officer thought I was going to try to get out of the car when I went to get my wallet out of my back pocket. Still he didn't need to touch my car or close my door. They were acting very jumpy until they ran my info then as soon as it was time to return my paperwork he was all laid back.

moose135
09-26-2006, 03:25 PM
But Nick, can you blame them? Your reputation proceeds you :)

PhilDernerJr
09-26-2006, 05:04 PM
I disagree, Nick. The question is not to imply that we are doing something wrong, but a play onwords to learn if you are doing something wrong. I'm sure the cops know what you were up to, and they jsut followed procedure.

That question is practicalyl asked to EVERYONE in EVERY sitaution. We are not being singled out. If someone calls the cops on us, that is exactly what they should be doing. No need for us to take it personally.

FlyingColors
09-26-2006, 05:33 PM
Entrapment? I call it a good police question to make sure that someone is up to no good. It's standard procedure, there is nothing wrong with it.

I disagree, Nick. The question is not to imply that we are doing something wrong, but a play onwords to learn if you are doing something wrong. I'm sure the cops know what you were up to, and they jsut followed procedure.

See this is what I'm talking about.

Nick's actions were painfully obvious.
They observed and passed him twice, fully well aware of his actions.

Get at the core value here Phil "play on words" is a very dangerous game.
We all must be vigilant to this type of tactic.

I would welcome with open arms a straight away question such as "ID please"
That's all that has to be said. Nick was observed, they knew damn well what he was doing.
IF the car came hauling tail around the corner and stopped short and could not watch him at all I would give them the benefit of the doubt otherwise.

I'm tempted to test such a ludicrous question.
"What am I doing"?
I'm doing about 1/320 to 1/250 shutter speed at F/5.6 in this light, since its early in the morning. Do you think I should put up my ISO?

Why were the fisherman not asked "what are you doing"
Preposterous!

mirrodie
09-26-2006, 05:41 PM
I'm tempted to test such a ludicrous question.
"What am I doing"?
I'm doing about 1/320 to 1/250 shutter speed at F/5.6 in this light, since its early in the morning. Do you think I should put up my ISO?


ANd that is what I intend to do next time. Perhaps if I ask them for advice and seem oblivious to what they are doing, the encounter would go much smoother.


And if I were with you Nick, I would have alerted the cop to your Elmo/pedophilic tendency! I'd give them somthing serious to worry about ;)

NIKV69
09-26-2006, 06:18 PM
The car door thing is understandable but he could have said "excuse me do you mind if I close your car door?"


I was thinking the same thing. I know he has hs job to do but there is a right way and a wrong way. He was boderline rude. Which in fine.



But Nick, can you blame them? Your reputation proceeds you


Yea he probably saw me on the roof of the Radisson.




The question is not to imply that we are doing something wrong, but a play onwords to learn if you are doing something wrong

Yes but police walk a fine line with that. I got pulled over once and a cop flat out asked me in a very leading manner if I had pot in the car. I got real pissed since I never touch the stuff. Some police are very jaded out there and you can't blame them but still this guy could have been a bit more professional.



Nick's actions were painfully obvious.
They observed and passed him twice, fully well aware of his actions.


Exactly, these cops now what we are doing. I mean hell what do you think the people that call them say in the first place? Someone in taking pics of airlplanes. I mean the encounter that myself, Haack and Eric H got from the PA at the cargo last year was a great example. He pulled up and said "you are those plane buffs, we got a call from the taxi stand etc etc" Even our swat style encounter with moose and eric and pete at the cargo area they got right in our face and said "the days of taking pics of airplanes is over" I mean they were just as out of line but at least they were straightforward about it. It is a game to some of these guys, coupled with intimidation.


And if I were with you Nick, I would have alerted the cop to your Elmo/pedophilic tendency! I'd give them somthing serious to worry about

Hmm I seem to remember when you and Phil were stopped at ISP you were questioned about making monkey love to each other.

PhilDernerJr
09-26-2006, 06:33 PM
Why didn't the fishermen get the questions? Probably because no one called the cops on the fishermen for being suspicious.

When people call the police, they HAVE TO respond, and they HAVE TO look into it. Asking "What's goin on?" upon arrival is the best way to figure out just that, instead of just making assumptions.

Is it a violation of your rights or something? How is it a dangerous game? You canít be serious.

Do you really expect the police to roll up, ASSUME that Nick is an enthusiast and just ask for ID without any kind of inquiring whatsoever? By asking what's going on, it initiates a dialogue and lets the police see if there is a threat or not. Think it's obvious that there is no threat? Well someone called the cops, and the police have to go through a process to figure that out, regardless of how obvious it might be. Thatís their job.

Cop pulls someone over for speeding. They donít just take their ID, run it, write the ticket and send them on their way. The police will ask questions, and maybe something will come up that tips the cop of that something else is going on. Maybe the driver is drunk, selling drugs, acting strange because heís got weapons in the trunk. This is a part of policing. This is the JOB of the police. This is how crimes are solved and prevented.

Ever hear of killers who are on the run and get caught during traffic stops and simple things? Itís because police talked to the person and felt it out. They look at their face alittle longer to see if they recognize them, check for inconsistency in their story, etc.

Police can't take chances. If Nick acting suspiciously and ultimately was doing something wrong, I wonder who would be the first one to blame the police for not figuring out about it ahead of time.

I can't believe that you have such a problem with such a simple and basic question. There's no big hidden agenda. Thereís no ďOh, man, we are going to catch him now and back him up against a wall with this doozy of a question!Ē Itís the most basic question, one that most people first ask when walking up to their friends.

Like I said earlier, this isn't something that only planespotters get. It's the standard question for when police arrive on any scene.

The police giving attitude is one thing. But thereís absolutely nothing wrong with them asking ďWhatís going on?Ē It sounds like you just have it out for cops.

mirrodie
09-26-2006, 07:45 PM
"What am I doing"?


I'm doing about 1/320 to 1/250 shutter speed at F/5.6 in this light, since its early in the morning. Do you think I should put up my ISO


Realize that I am being painfully serious in saying this. What I an doing can be answered in many ways and that is a very....technical way to show the officer what you are doing.

FlyingColors
09-27-2006, 10:02 AM
"The police will ask questions"
And that's fine and I even welcome it, fully obliging.

Phil your the one that mentioned they "play on words"

Officers are trained to be highly observant. Again in this case, they were well aware of Nick's actions.

When I'm questioned I don't wish to be belittled, lied to or have a play on words and lets mention insult to basic intelligence.

This would not have been any issue like what Nick said about the past questions giving some sort of connection to reality, addressing him/us as a "plane guy, spotter, camera boy, jet buff, shutter bug," I can even buy "stop that, you can't do that anymore, thats dumb, why not take pics of flowers"

"what are you doing" is loaded question in this situation.
Yet another completely honest reply could be to shrug ones shoulders and eyebrow's upward since its obvious what I'm doing, and this guy can't be retarded.

Sorry, but were just as conspicuous as the fishermen there.
Guaranteed you ask them that question and they will tell you "I'm losing bate or I'm wasting my time"

Sorry again, but in this day and age where the law has an almost unlimited use of power, one needs to keep on your toes.