United/Continental merger?

[Nonstop2AUH]

Today there are some speculative news reports about a UA/CO combination, presumably with CO being the surviving management. Anyone have any thoughts on what impact this sort of merger would have in the NYC area?

[T-Bird76]

UAL's Tilton mentioned sometime ago that a merger might be the way to go. Wouldn't surprise me in the least to see something like this happen. It would only strengthen CO's position in the far east and give CO a western hub which it once had at Denver.

[PhilDernerJr]

From what I can think of, it sounds good, and I think CO is in a good position to do it, if anyone is.

United could use a little help, and this sounds like it could work.

So let's get right into it. How would it affect NY operations?

[T-Bird76]

It wouldn't affect NY ops all that much. UAL doesn't serve the same destinations that CO does. You'd just see CO birds eventually flying to ORD, IAD, and DEN. UAL's ops in the NYC area are very small to see any significant impact. Oh CO probably would begin JFK-LAX, JFK-SFO as well. I don't see anything major in our area. However I can see IAD being pulled down or cut back. Two east coasts hubs so close would be redundant, IAD ops can be moved to EWR.

[PhilDernerJr]

UA would lose their Airbus aircraft, I assume, as well.

[T-Bird76]

UA would lose their Airbus aircraft, I assume, as well.

I'd doubt it. The Airbuses are newer and more fuel efficient then the 737s UAL has. Unless CO orders a **** load of 737s to replace them which I doubt as well the A320s and 319s would remain. They make up a huge part of UAL's domestic fleet. Removing them would put a huge capacity gap in UALs route structure.

[Alex T]

Can we assume itd just be the same as US/AWA thing?

Routes, and everything is kept, but under one color/brand/name.

UA flights would still fly their respective UA flights just under CO colors and back and forth.

The network would be larger, for even small stations like STL.

We would have N/S to EWR, ORD, IAH, CLE, IAD, and DEN.

Another Question would this new airline stay in SKYTEAM or STAR?

Alex

[PhilDernerJr]

Good point on the Skyteam or Star Alliance. (I vote for Star)

[hiss srq]

I think the Frogjets would stick around in a scenario such as above, Co is ditching the 737-300's and 500's are going to start going soon. The 319's could be a decent fit for the 500 replacement and give them more room to make money on smaller markets they serve with 1 or 2 flights a day because it would make much more room for air mail or cargo to be transported in bins, the 500 sucks for that as it is right now. I say go for it and good bye IAD. Oh and 747's in CO colors, never imagined that would happen again (fingers crossed)

[Alex T]

Good point on the Skyteam or Star Alliance. (I vote for Star)

I agree Star has a big influence worldwide, but need more US members, in the US Skyteam is the biggest with NW/CO/DL, Star being a 2nd behind with 2 members, and 3rd is OneWorld with AA.

Alex

[NYARTCCFAN]

Speaking in the merger topic, when will we see US Airways changeover to the Cactus callsign ???

[USAF Pilot 07]

As a side note, CO already operates to Denver, and they actually have several daily non-stops between DEN and EWR...

As for a merger, would US anti-trust laws, or more specifically a judge, allow it? Those are two very large, and very dominant carriers. A merger between the two would deal a heavy blow to many of the other US carriers...

[USAF Pilot 07]

Speaking in the merger topic, when will we see US Airways changeover to the Cactus callsign ???

Why would US Airways change over to "Cactus"? America West was somewhat "acquired" by US Airways (or at least US Airways is the dominant partner in the merger). Why would US Airways adopt America West's callsign, especially since everything is being changed over to US Airways?

[mirrodie]

because Cactus sounds cooler.

;)

[FlyingColors]

I hope not.

FWIW, I heard CO has a "fixed deal" with Boeing only fleet. Mechanic friends can ramble on and on recalling the A300 days and how they and management hated them.

But don't know if this would be an exception in this instance.

[T-Bird76]

Speaking in the merger topic, when will we see US Airways changeover to the Cactus callsign ???

Why would US Airways change over to "Cactus"? America West was somewhat "acquired" by US Airways (or at least US Airways is the dominant partner in the merger). Why would US Airways adopt America West's callsign, especially since everything is being changed over to US Airways?

Clark actually America West was not acquired at all by US. America West totally acquired U.S Airways, hence why AWA wants to keep some of its past alive. AWA formed the U.S Airways group with funds raised with loans so they could afford to take over U.S. The U.S Airways group is a holding company that owns AWA and U.S since they are still two different airlines, but it was AWA that orchestrated the takeover not U.S. U.S would be gone by now if this didn't take place.

[cancidas]

that would be really cool, ship 744 and clearing him into the gate as "cactus."

[USAF Pilot 07]

Clark actually America West was not acquired at all by US. America West totally acquired U.S Airways, hence why AWA wants to keep some of its past alive. AWA formed the U.S Airways group with funds raised with loans so they could afford to take over U.S. The U.S Airways group is a holding company that owns AWA and U.S since they are still two different airlines, but it was AWA that orchestrated the takeover not U.S. U.S would be gone by now if this didn't take place.


Interesting... I thought all along U.S. Airways had acquired AWA. Thanks for pointing out the opposite!

So are they repainting AWA planes into U.S. Airways livery, or are they keeping the two airlines completely separate, only operating in conjuction with each other?
From the business standpoint of things, I can see why it would make sense to keep everything US Airways, or at least lean more towards that name than keeping the AWA name....

[Alex T]

They are changing everything to US Airways, all AWA and US planes will be repainted into the new US Airways colors.

Once merged(certificate wise), all US planes will have the call sign of cactus, and they will keep the 4 heritage planes as well.

[hiss srq]

Sure would be nice to see a 767-200 and maybe a 737-400 in Peidmont colors.

[NYARTCCFAN]

ok question is when will the callsign changeover take place

[USAF Pilot 07]

ok question is when will the callsign changeover take place



Once merged(certificate wise), all US planes will have the call sign of cactus, and they will keep the 4 heritage planes as well.

[NYARTCCFAN]

OTAY !!! Was wondering if anyone had insider info on the exact date of the occurence

[Alex T]

OTAY !!! Was wondering if anyone had insider info on the exact date of the occurence

I'd assume its gonna be another year or two before everything is complete, however once the certificate has been merged for the two airlines, both airlines are now considered one full certificate operating airline-US AIRWAYS. but it wont mean the colors of the planes will ber done and all, but it means all AWA flights will show up on ATC and Screens as US instead of AWA, and ATC and the rest will be reported to as Cactus, which is the same for AWA certified planes, but US Airways will be the one to change over to Cactus, will take some getting used to by US Airways pilots.

Alex

[Art at ISP]

Not to be revisionist, but the combination of America West and US Airways was a MERGER, not an acquisition. While America West management remains, and were instrumental in the deal, much of the financing was arranged by Bruce Lakefield, former CEO of US Airways. He may not have known how to run an airline, but he is an expert with money.

While US probably would have liquidated if this merger had not happened, HP would likely have had to file CH 11 as well--according to Doug Parker.

That said, the airline may have the US Airways name, but it is lowering its product to America West standards, and as much as I love my friends at US Airways, that may be a deal breaker for me.

As some of you know, I am one of the original members and currently the policy board chair of FFOCUS (Frequent Flyers Organized and Committed to US Airways Success), which is a 300 member passenger (and employee) advocacy group. We advocate for both the customers AND employees of US Airways, and have gotten the airline management (both new and old) to reconsider some changes, and in some cases got them rescinded. We care very much about the new US, but most of their most frequent customers do NOT like the way they are trending.

By the way, 2 books I just read give a chilling reminder about failed airlines, and both share a common theme--you cannot have happy customers without happy employees!!!

The books were A Splash Of Colors about Braniff's collapse in 1982 (it was like deja vu all over again), and DELTA-An Airline Without a Pilot, which came out early this year. Recommended reading for anyone who is involved with or cares about the airline business--interesting how history seems to repeat itself.

My best to you all--especially my US Airways friend Ron and his colleagues at LGA...

Art