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T-Bird76
2005-11-19, 10:07 PM
Boeing’s Alteon Training Center

First I have to thank Mike (aka Midnight Mike) for the absolutely fantastic tour of this wonderful state of the art facility. For an aviation enthusiast this was a dream come true and an experience I will not soon forget.

http://www.nycaviation.com/hosting/sim1.jpg

Boeing at Long Beach

The facility located at Long Beach Airport home of the famous DC Jet factory at one time was McDonnell Douglas’s training center but now is Boeing’s training center for Pilots, FAs, Mechanics, and other personal involved in the handling of commercial aircraft. The center itself has a number of different simulators both full motion and static. Some of the simulators include the MD-11, 717, 737, and the MD-80.

http://www.nycaviation.com/hosting/sim3.jpg

The training center also includes cabin mockups of the MD-80, 737 classic, NG and a door simulator for the MD-11 and DC-10. Mike even let me open the over wing emergency exit door of the 737. When I asked him he’s like “OMG you’re not bit of a nerd are you?” I said “hell yeah I am!” Yes I had to do it twice just for good measure, lol

http://www.nycaviation.com/hosting/sim5.jpg
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Mike took me to just about every part of this facility and one thing that I fell absolutely in love with was the art work, my god the pictures at this facility of the classic Douglas aircraft from the DC-1 to the MD-95 (717) was in itself worth the visit, the hallways of Alteton truly tell the story of a great aircraft manufacturer and its rich and exciting history. If given the choice to take one of the photos home I really don’t think I could decide, each and every one of them were simply amazing.

http://www.nycaviation.com/hosting/sim30.jpg
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The Simulators

The simulators themselves are something breathtaking all their own. You walk in this warehouse like room and there they are three state of the art full motion commercial aircraft simulators. The 717 simulator, the newest at the center looks almost like a shuttle craft from some sci-fi movie, truly state of the art in its appearance and operation.

http://www.nycaviation.com/hosting/sim44.jpg
http://www.nycaviation.com/hosting/sim11.jpg
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http://www.nycaviation.com/hosting/sim15.jpg

Stepping inside your jaw drops, you would swear you just entered the flight deck of a real airliner. It is an exact replica of the aircraft it represents; you name it every switch, button, light, diode, etc is there, even the seat belt and no smoking switch. Oh and yes when you flip the seat belt switch it makes the seat belt noise; just ask me how many times I did that, lol.

Pre-flight

It was time to buckle up and prepare for take off! I sat down in the left seat and look out the window and I was blown away, right in front of me was LAX terminal 4, the jet ramp and all connected to the plane. The instructor Wes, which was a pilot for Continental for 20 years and then MGM Grand Air went over the preflight checklist with me and instructed me on the operation of the aircraft. Once that was done we pushed back and Wes instructed me to move the throttle forward a bit until the plane began to roll and then to reduce power. Really amazing how the aircraft has enough inertia to move it without having to give it more power. I must say I did a pretty good job steering that bird around the taxiway to
the runway.

http://www.nycaviation.com/hosting/sim24.jpg
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Come Fly with me

To make it a bit more like the real thing then it already was to me, Wes introduced some traffic to the airport which was really exciting. We began our taxi to 24L and all around you; you would swear you were in a real plane. The feeling of movement, visuals, and sound were as real as it gets. As we taxied Wes set our auto throttle speed and turned onto the runway. Once lined up on the center line I moved the throttle forward until the auto throttle engaged and off we went. I don’t know how they do it but I was being pushed back into the seat as you would during a real take off. I could only imagine the expression on my face but this was simply an amazing experience. As we reached V speed Wes instructed me to rotate. I’ve always imagined what it was like from left seat to pilot a large airliner off the ground and this experience helped me to realize that wonderful feeling. Pilots really do have the best job in the world!

http://www.nycaviation.com/hosting/sim17.jpg

As we climbed out everything you feel in the sim is just like the real thing. Once we climbed out Wes took me through some basic moves and went over some basic instruction I should know. To make a long story short I never realized even though I’ve heard it a 100 times before, you really do follow your instruments rather then what’s going on outside.

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Once we did our take off and climb out Wes set us up for an approach in LAX on 24R, it was wild! There was LAX directly in front of me and a Northwest 747 off to my left making a landing on 24L, wow I can’t believe they fly that close on approach! I was given instruction on my flap setting and even lowered the gear. The one thing I never realized was how much muscle has to be put into so many actions when flying, nothing is really smooth so to speak, every input involves a bit of elbow grease to engage it. Then I thought it must be for safety, if it was that easy to put the gear down or set your flaps and spoilers there’d be more accidental movement of control surfaces.

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My landing was picture perfect! I greased that bird in right on the center line!! We came to a full stop and taxied off the active and held on the taxi way. Wes then said where would you like to go now? I said lets go back home to New York and do JFK, I don’t know how many times I’ve flown in and out of JFK but now it was from a perspective from the flight deck. We decided to do 31R so my fellow virtual sim spotters could take some pictures of me landing, lol. This time however we didn’t do a full stop we did a touch and go and climbed back out.

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After JFK we did PHNL and then decided to do some high performance flying around Hawaii. Flying through valleys and along the beach was really cool as the terrain warring system, pull up and sink rate warning was going off!

NOW THE FUN PART

After the normal stuff Wes was like you want to see what a commercial jetliner is really capable of? So he instructed me how to put a 717 through a roll!! Holy hell if we didn’t have out belts on we would have been thrown to the other side of the sim, but man was that fun. After that we decided to explore some things that happen in flight. Wes told me to climb to 20,000 feet and engage the auto pilot and he programmed in a wind vortex incident about 2 min into cruise. Wow, our left wing just fell out of the sky without warning. In order to recover Wes was yelling out instructions and assisting me with recovery but I managed to pull her out. Then we did a wind sheer landing at LAX on 24L. I was hand flying her and about a couple miles out the wind sheer alert system goes off, man that alarm really gets you’re attention and as you look down on your CRT you see this bright red line coming right towards you. Wes told me just follow your flight director, while he worked the throttle and I should be able to make it through. When we hit the wind sheer the control yoke felt like I was lifting a 100 lb weight, I was shocked by the weight of the stick and the force it took to control the aircraft. We did manage to make it through but landed a bit far down the runway and had to use some finesse to stop her in time, but we did.

A Dream Come True

This was an experience I’ll never forget and more then likely will go back again in the very near future. If you're ever in Southern California take some time and experience this for yourself. This was the best 150 dollars I’ve ever spent but more so this was a dream and long time desire come true. Thanks again Mike and Wes helping me to realize once again how much I truly love the spirit and magic of aviation.

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expressjet145
2005-11-19, 10:24 PM
You lucky bastard. LOL. Thanks for the call's :-P.

IslipWN
2005-11-19, 10:29 PM
Wow, it sounds like you really had a great time, Tommy. I wish I had the time to fly out there and do this. It seems like its a once in a life time experience.


What happens if you crash the plane?

Futterman
2005-11-19, 10:35 PM
Rock on, Tommy, this's awesome!

I've never gotten the opportunity to check out Alteon yet, but did manage to get a few minutes in the Level-D MD90 sim down at Embry-Riddle. Just walking in is surreal - we didn't even get to use it and I still had a blast! The sheepskin seat covers, cockpit lighting, size, everything was just crazy accurate with the added bonus of being a computer program. Here're two photos taken minutes apart:

http://www.nycaviation.com/hosting/6580_EmbryRiddleMD90_Simulator_ERAUcockpit_BF1024. jpg
http://www.nycaviation.com/hosting/6587_EmbryRiddleMD90_Simulator_ERAUcockpit_BF.jpg

...only in a sim...

Again, great job!

Brian

INTENSS
2005-11-19, 11:37 PM
Looks gooa ll around guys.

Brian - You looking at going to Riddle?


-Rich

Futterman
2005-11-19, 11:39 PM
Yes I am, Rich, as are a few other guys on the forum...check your private messages.

Derf
2005-11-19, 11:55 PM
While I got into many sims, You never really loose that jaw drop when
walking into a room and then a cockpit waiting on the numbers! Thanks
for that great story and hope to see some more pictures. It reminds me
of the old nights at the Eastern 727 sim at JFK. Two engines out with a
third screaming bloody muder in a 50knot crosswind with chops that
would make "THE DUKE" hurl chuncks over glarescreen while over the
numbers when your Co-Pilot says "YOU HAVE 10 Cents more for the coke
machine?"


FYI Tom-
Your takeoff feeling of you getting pushed into your seat was done by the
sim pitching up slightly while the air bladders in your seat are deflated.
The 727 did not have bladders! lolol I wish I was there man! Great
Stuff!!!

IslipWN
2005-11-19, 11:56 PM
How much do those things cost?

PhilDernerJr
2005-11-20, 01:03 AM
Tommy, great story. I'm very jealous. Sounds like an awesome time. I dream of the day that I can do Expressway Visual 31 into LGA. I have to get out there soon. :)

Midnight Mike
2005-11-20, 01:49 AM
T-Bird76

Wow, great report, I will share it with Wes.


Mike

Midnight Mike
2005-11-20, 10:59 AM
Tommy, great story. I'm very jealous. Sounds like an awesome time. I dream of the day that I can do Expressway Visual 31 into LGA. I have to get out there soon. :)

Well Phil, I tried to get you over here, but, nooo, you were toooo busy! HA! :lol: :D

mirrodie
2005-11-20, 02:46 PM
Wooo Hoooo!!!! alreight Tommy!!!


I'm so glad ytou got to do the roll! Insane, isnt it?!!!

Great photos! I never saw the sign lit up at night, great shots and great report!


ciao!

Derf
2005-11-20, 07:08 PM
....What happens if you crash the plane?

You need to put in another quater!

Derf
2005-11-20, 07:09 PM
How much do those things cost?

Much more than the actual aircraft! MUCH MORE!

Midnight Mike
2005-11-21, 01:16 PM
How much do those things cost?

The full flight simulators can cost between $15 - $20 Million US Dollars.....

mirrodie
2005-11-21, 07:27 PM
Hey Mike, that MD90 that Futterman saw. Isnth that relatively similar to the MD 90 EFD you once had at your facility?

Midnight Mike
2005-11-21, 08:34 PM
Hey Mike, that MD90 that Futterman saw. Isnth that relatively similar to the MD 90 EFD you once had at your facility?

Mario

That is the exact same one, same simulator that we moved to Daytona.... So, you get to say that you flew that simulator as well.

Futterman
2005-11-21, 10:28 PM
So the ERAU sim used to be over at Alteon? Awesome! :)

I was told that the sim was actually inteded for delivery to Saudi Arabian Airlines, and they had to remove all the AI traffic (other planes) from the program because they were all middle eastern airlines. Is this true?

Brian

Derf
2005-11-21, 11:14 PM
How much do those things cost?

The full flight simulators can cost between $15 - $20 Million US Dollars.....

That sounds about right....It was much more in terms of the cost of an aircraft back in the days...but that was probably because the computers. I remember the 727 sim had to be loaded with like 8- 8inch floppy's. Been a while since I have seen one of them!

Midnight Mike
2005-11-21, 11:45 PM
So the ERAU sim used to be over at Alteon? Awesome! :)

I was told that the sim was actually inteded for delivery to Saudi Arabian Airlines, and they had to remove all the AI traffic (other planes) from the program because they were all middle eastern airlines. Is this true?

Brian

Negative, the sim was never planned to go to Saudi, Saudi Arabian Airlines ordered their own devices.

As far as anything else, sounds like a bunch of tall tales.

mirrodie
2005-11-22, 09:21 PM
hey Brian, was the Saudi Arabian Insignia still on the outsite of the sim that you used?

Futterman
2005-11-23, 12:28 AM
Mike says the whole Saudi deal was just a story, but either way, there weren't any airline markings on it. Just a 'CAPT' prgram designation and what you see in this photo:

http://www.nycaviation.com/hosting/IR49157.jpg

The computers humming, air conditioner running, and the red lights in the hallway were just great...felt like one big huge Disney Land ride! :)

Brian

i_mizrahi
2005-11-23, 07:52 AM
Excuse me for my ignorance and lack of understanding, but I didn't manage to figure out if Alteon's facility is open for the public to visit and have fun (for money), or is it a place for professionals only.

I'm thinking about a trip to California in '06. Is there any chance of visiting Alteon for someone like me?

izhar

Midnight Mike
2005-11-23, 08:52 AM
Mike says the whole Saudi deal was just a story, but either way, there weren't any airline markings on it. Just a 'CAPT' prgram designation and what you see in this photo:

http://www.nycaviation.com/hosting/IR49157.jpg

The computers humming, air conditioner running, and the red lights in the hallway were just great...felt like one big huge Disney Land ride! :)

Brian

Kind of, when we trained the Saudi crews, we normally used California airports, I am not even sure if there were any Middle Eastern airports in the database?

mirrodie
2005-11-23, 05:28 PM
Futt, did you get any pics from the door side?

i'll see if I can dig up what I am talking about.

K9DEP
2005-11-23, 06:16 PM
Yeah but the MD90 sim at ERAu has the Saudia sticker on it?!?

OH and ERAU is totally overated and not to mention expensive ! IN order to use that sim you have to have a PPL and a 4-year bachelors degree, and the program cost over $80,000 that's why so few graduate! THe ones that do have fathers that make $250,000 workin for delta as captains!
There are plenty of other good schools like ATP, who will give you your multiengine, instrument,commercial,CFI, and CFII ratings in only 3 months. And if they hire you after you graduate you can build up your hours and then evntually end up in the right seat on Expressjet because the two have a hiring agreement! and the University of North Dakota is just great because if you want to work for a major airline you can get yourself the aviation science bachelor's degree and every rating you need to become an F/O. But even when your hired you only use the sims right before you fly,after you passed all the system's test an junk like that, but if your gonna be a pilot you need to have that degree booyyyyiiiee!!!!!

Midnight Mike
2005-11-23, 08:39 PM
Mario

I found your old trip report that talks of flying the MD90EFD, but, no pictures

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/tr ... 6/#ID42614 (http://www.airliners.net/discussions/trip_reports/read.main/42614/6/#ID42614)

I will see if I have any old photos in the office...

Futterman
2005-11-23, 09:08 PM
Futt, did you get any pics from the door side?

I think I may have taken some, but it looks like they were in the batch I accidentally overwrote (regretably) when I transfered from the card to the computer. I know we have video of it (the outisde), though!



Yeah but the MD90 sim at ERAu has the Saudia sticker on it?!?

No, there were no indications of any airline whatsoever anywhere on the sim.


OH and ERAU is totally overated and not to mention expensive ! IN order to use that sim you have to have a PPL and a 4-year bachelors degree, and the program cost over $80,000 that's why so few graduate! THe ones that do have fathers that make $250,000 workin for delta as captains!

You have a few things confused, here. The MD90 is not part of the AeroSci BS degree program, or any four-year degree program for that matter. It is exclusively for Riddle's CAPT program, which is for people who already have a BS (in anything, from any schoolbut, no flying time) and want to spend $80,000 to go from zero to airline pilot in one year -- one of our members here actually considered applying. As far as I know, neither the CAPT program nor the $80,000 nor the MD90 sim have any bearing on your graduation as a student. See http://www.erau.edu/capt/index.html


Brian[/url]

K9DEP
2005-11-25, 06:59 PM
yes thank you Futterman, I never said to go to Riddle there you have to pay $80,000 but rather I wrote to'use it ' you would need a BS and $80thou, and BTW the airlines want to see that you have a BS in something other than aviation just so they know if someting happens you have someting to fall back on, ex. Buisness management or air traffic control, united's CEO told our class that in an E-Mail to my Flight Instructor, and also Riddle sent me alot of brochures and a cd-rom about the program and there are at least 5 pics of the sim with an airline sticker on it of Saudi Arabian Airlines or then that means the pics of the sim were just pics of the Middle -East carriers sims.

Tower Air
2005-11-25, 08:59 PM
How much do you have to pay for the sim?