PDA

View Full Version : Canon 20D.......help!



FlyingColors
08-14-2005, 07:42 PM
OK, so now I have no camera at all, my Nikon croaked in a critical moment in action, so..............

Looking to make a change.

What kind of faults you folks know about this camera.
Any complaints about the 100-400 IS (not talking about $ or weight)
Sigma? Good, bad?

Mike

jakbar
08-14-2005, 07:46 PM
You're switching to Canon and abandoning all of your Nikon lenses? What exactly happened to make you decide you want to deal with the hassle of buying all new equipment???

PhilDernerJr
08-14-2005, 07:49 PM
Mike,

Wait a few months! Canon is coming out with something new in September supposedly! The 20D might have a successor soon.

I, as well as some of the other guys you know, are all interested in waiting one month after the new camera comes out to read reviews and learn about it....and then get several bodies as a group to save money.

You should join us.

FlyingColors
08-14-2005, 09:24 PM
Thanks Phil, let me know if you see something.

Aaa geese Josh, kinda long story, here goes. Wanting to upgrade, and Nikon gives us only one choice.................

Reasoning the D2x:
Use: action aviation photos. Greater speed and frames. Has a high speed mode that gives you a 2.0 magnification factor. Would mainly shoot JPEG that delivers 6.8MP. Standard mode is 12.4 MP. Always needing more speed without loosing a stop in aperture, thus the 2.0 in camera is very valuable to me.

So in July I got the D2x. Very disappointing! Lots of bad shots. Quick reasons. The 80-400 is a mid-quality lens. Its not a good match with such a wicked camera as the D2x. The top of the line camera needs the top of the line lens for it to perform all out. PS, that's why "another" Nikon D2x guy is almost only doing 10.5mm fish eye shots with his! Surprise, surprise... I've pioneered the use of this camera for its purpose as I see fit. One can find tons of reviews of its use taking on the 1Ds, portraits, landscapes only. Not action.

Had to return the D2x. Store in NJ only gives credit, not $, ouch...

Math time:
D2x, $5,000.00 (camera now gone and so is my $, store credit)
The "right lens", the 200-400 VR, 4.0 (Super-telephoto) $5,500.00

Ok, I was able to pull off the big 5 for the body.....but can't do the 5.5 more for a lens too!!!! And that muther is long and heavy!!!!!!!!!! Will not fit in a camera bag and joe-q-public will freak if its seen near an airport!

So for my 5,000 I can:
Try another D2x, and did, and returned that one too.
Or get:
20D
100-400mm
20-135mm
10-22mm
580ex speedlight
bp-511a extra battery
two 1GB extreme III cards
BG-E2 battery/ver grip
and UV filters.......................and still have some credit!

Even considered the 1D, but it has only a 1.3 magnification factor, no good for us that don't live on the ramp!

To me what it all comes down to:
Nikon plus: easy of controls, redundant info, unparalleled ergonomics.
Canon plus: best low light and performance, color and the least noise.

ps-my D100 mirror came undone and the shutter/curtain is jammed. So do I send in a $450.00 to $550.00 street value camera for a few hundred (or more ) for repair??????? And its just out of its extended 3 year warranty...............son ofa bitc$!!!!

Mike

PhilDernerJr
08-14-2005, 09:41 PM
Mike, I won't even paly the Canon/Nikon rivalry, but it does seem like Canon might be the best choice for you.

Again, if you're willing to hold off, I think it would be worth waiting to see if something new comes out from Canon.

FlyingColors
08-15-2005, 12:20 PM
Phil,

Please share more.

I only see dp-review showing a rumor of the 20D replacement possibly sporting a full frame sensor or a 1.3xs and 12MP . Also says no sooner than next February.

If any of those are so I'll go for the 20D, less magnification and huge MP is worthless for what we do.

Mike

PhilDernerJr
08-15-2005, 12:49 PM
I don't understand what you mean by magnifation. Are you talking about crop factor? If the megapixel is higher....can't we crop more?

The 20D has been out for a while, and it came out only a few months after I got my 10D, just as my 550EX flash became "obsolete" a month after I bought that too. I don't want to get scooped again like that.

I heard the rumor that it was September, and what you explained is similar to whatI heard about the camera, so maybe Feb is more likely.

lijk604
08-15-2005, 12:49 PM
...newbie throwing in his 2 cents.
Wife begged me to get new camera. (no joke).
We decided on the Canon Digital Rebel XT, haven't had a chance to download the few pictures I took yet. I'll post one or two for criticism.
Fair warning, they will not have been photoshoped so I'm open to suggestions.

Thanks!
John
Patchogue, NY

FlyingColors
08-15-2005, 01:36 PM
Yes Phil,

Magnification is from crop factor.

As always, whats important to you, or shall I say whats needed.

If your taking pics for the net or making prints on average under 25 inches then you don't need to really go above 6 MP (from a DSLR, compact units don't apply, different size, smaller pixels)

I'm not in need or want to make giant file sizes, its not needed many times.

My mission statement-Use the right tool for the job.
Example, I can drive to the airport to go spotting in a tractor trailer. Big, bulky, slow and costs more in time to do so. Or just use my little Jeep, very efficient and accomplishes the goal just as good, and better.

Do what works for you.
If a person loves to spend as much time as possible in front of a monitor and processes pics, burn huge dvds full, pack 15 4GB cards for spotting, then go for it.

For me, these days , now I'm in the know, 98% of the time I'll shoot JPEG and have no reason to tangle with huge files. Just shoot it right in the camera is best.

jakbar
08-15-2005, 01:45 PM
What about just buying another D100, or perhaps even the D70? The price is certainly right on those, and then you wouldn't be losing your investments in all of your Nikon equipment. As for the store credit you'd have left over, you could put it towards some better lenses if you think the 80-400 isn't working out for you.

As a side note, I'm perfectly happy with my D100 and the 80-400. Never had a problem with either, and the picture quality coming out of my camera is perfectly fine. It does, however, piss me off that Nikon is lagging so far behind in terms of a competitor for the 20D. If I want to eventually upgrade my camera, I might end up in the same boat you are in terms of what direction to go.

Josh

FlyingColors
08-15-2005, 02:32 PM
Josh,

I general I like my set up too, its just I'm ready for a change. I want more.

The 80-400 on the D100 is good, just wont do well on the D2x.

And since I went for the D2x my $ is gone, so I have to spend the 5K on something or loose it!

Going to send in my D100 for an estimate tomorrow, for starters.

As for the gear, one can sell it and recoup some. Its the body that's real low on value.

Mike

lijk604
08-16-2005, 06:28 AM
Sorry to have to ask this, but I have a picture on my C drive which I would like to post in the forum. How do I do this? I see the Insert Image line above this box, but what do I show for an image_url?
Again, I apologize if this has been covered somewhere before, but I've never posted a photo in a forum, nor do I have a website. Thanks for putting up with me.

FlyingColors
08-16-2005, 11:48 AM
OK

This thread is going nowhere fast.

As for Canon guys, thank you Phil for your input.

I was hoping all you other Canon guys would step up and tell me more..................I know your reading this........

Mike :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Futterman
08-16-2005, 12:43 PM
Well, I don't know what to say, really.

Phil makes a great point about this alleged new Canon body...it's always bittersweet when you buy a 1 year old DSLR.

But, there's a but. And keep in mind that I'm biased, so just substitute "20D" for whatever camera you love and have been using the most, and maybe you'll understand what I'm trying to say.

The 20D is a beautiful camera and quite a beast in terms of performance. AF locks on quickly and the 9 AF-points help a lot with that, the 5 frames/second are crazy. ISO 100 should make you giggle like a little girl after being with Nikon for so long, but be 'warned' that ISO is not displayed in the viewfinder.

The body is light but the 100-400 makes it considerably meatier than the D100 and 80-400 (I've held Josh's).

It's turning out to be one helluva performer. I have no qualms with it whatsoever as an aviation camera. I personally feel that Canon is going to pop out a bridge between the 20D and 1-series in these coming months which would probably mean bigger sensors and overkill when shooting at an airport. However, the last few years make me think otherwise (about one year is all there was from D30 to D60 to 10D to 20D, so who knows?).

Hey, exactly one year ago I was bent on the 10D. I waited a few weeks (primarily because I still live with my parents!) and ended up with something absolutely kickass.

Maybe hang around a few more weeks until some of these big photo shows pass (Photokina?). Canon may announce something then.

Whatever you decide, though, the 20D will surely impress you. We'll have to meet up and get my camera around your neck so you can see for yourself! :)

Brian

Tom_Turner
08-16-2005, 01:31 PM
Agree with you 100% Mike.

A 20D in your hands - can only imagine you'll get awesome results.

Whats to wait for? As you indicated, probably not much for our purposes.

The 100-400 IS ? - No issues really. I know that if I aim it near near vertical I've had the image "jump" - can't explain it really. So I generally refrain from that.

Also - you'll want to get this ASAP.. some good stuff coming up. :)

- Tom

PhilDernerJr
08-16-2005, 02:33 PM
After a little more thinking and ordering some photos from someone, I disagree, guys.

I look at photos from champions like Ryan C. Umphrey on Anet and the difference between shots from a 10D or 20D and Ryan's 1D Mark II from his locations is tremendous. I've never seen anything like it before in my life and especially with Airliners.net standards being the way that they are, every little bit helps.

I think there is a big difference, even though it's is only for a 1024-wide web resolution photo. Obviously I'd do a lot more with my camera at that point than just upload to Anet and JP though.

Futterman
08-16-2005, 03:00 PM
I look at photos from champions like Ryan C. Umphrey on Anet and the difference between shots from a 10D or 20D and Ryan's 1D Mark II from his locations is tremendous. I've never seen anything like it before in my life and especially with Airliners.net standards being the way that they are, every little bit helps.

Mike's comment still holds water, especially since his budget has BARELY enough room for a 1D MkII body.

While Ryan Umphrey isn't a professional photographer (in terms of a career, as far as I know) his setup is still overkill any way you look at it. Given Mike's store credit, I'm sure he can suffice without 8FPS and a gazillion megapixels. Besides, Phil, you know as well as I do that the MkII wouldnt've performed as we've seen with a 70-300.

Hence Mike's whole ordel (read: D2x + 80-400 = poo).

I've seen photographers accomplish shots just like Ryan's EVA Cargo MD-11 in pitch black (which I assume you have in mind) with a "modest" 20D/70-200 f2.8 IS. Beyond a setup like what we've been discussing in the thread, the 20D and 100-400, the differences are exclusively technical to the extent that A.net would roll over in its grave before they start to accept or reject a photo based on the caliber of camera it was taken with.

:)

Brian

PhilDernerJr
08-16-2005, 03:41 PM
With my 10D, I feel like I have issues with sharpness and jaggies when comparing against 20D shots and other Anet shots. A better camera would certainly help. Overkill? Our current setups are already thousands of dollars each.

FlyingColors
08-16-2005, 06:35 PM
Now were talken, thanks

If you do alot of review reading, like I have (you should see my bloodshot eyes!) you will find some saying the 20D is still better at managing noise compared to the 1D mkII, wow!

Again for me, the huge drawback with the 1D is the 1.3 crop factor, reducing your max focal length. So the 1D is totally out of the question for me. But for the "ramp rats" and thoes who shoot film its great.

I'll have to wait and see just a bit to find out whats new. If Canon does do a new 30D or whatever its called, and its got a 1.3 crop or a full fame....then its a 20D for me for sure.

Like Phil has said, the 20D is making some stunning results, and does have some advantages. Of course I think the 10D and for that matter all the Canons have some advantages over the Nikon, especially metering and exposure quality.

And the 100-400 lens is a must not due to just budget but size. That's a great lens and yet its compact for mobility---as far as I know. That's why I'm asking.

So please share whatever, you guys are the best review,thanks.
Mike

PhilDernerJr
08-16-2005, 07:14 PM
Mike,

I gotta be honest when I say that grain and crop factor are of absolutely ZERO concern for me when buying a camera. Why is that you ask?

Grain and noise are nothing I've ever had an issue with any Canon body, nor do I expect it to ever be. From what I've read and heard from shooters, the 1D doesn't have any issues with it, either. At least not compared to the ISO 200 floor of the D100.

As for crop factor, I don't know about you guys, but I'm pretty hard on myself when it comes to my photos. If I have to crop a photo that much, then I feel like I'm doing something wrong and didn't deserve to get the shot anyway.

I like to shoot either full frame shots or nice backgrounds. If I have to crop that much, then odds are that further out than 400mm, you start getting particles in the air that are going to negatively affect photo quality anyway. At least in the NYC air.

It's just rare that I'm shooting that far to need crop factor.

The things that I look at when going for a camera are (in this order):

- Crispness (usually found with better megapixel)

- Color accuracy

- Auto-Focus speed

- Frames per second

- Buffer speed

- Durability (Weather, elements, dropping, etc.)

mikephotos
08-18-2005, 12:52 PM
Mike,

Lots of rumours of the D200 coming soon.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read. ... e=14671540 (http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=14671540)

Mike

FlyingColors
08-19-2005, 02:25 PM
Mike thanks for the tip.

I have 10 months to make a move on something.....................

Mike

mikephotos
08-19-2005, 03:35 PM
Mike thanks for the tip.

I have 10 months to make a move on something.....................

Mike

With how quickly things change in the DSLR world, they'll be 50 new bodies come and go in that time :)
Good luck with the new camera, when you get it. Even if it's a Canon.

Mike

FlyingColors
08-26-2005, 05:41 PM
Just like to add this tid bit for anyone buying a camera and a extended warranty.............DON'T bother with the extra warranty.

MACK camera has my D100 now for 2 weeks and the tech has not even looked at it yet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What makes me laugh is these guys could very well say..................."hello, we found a spec of sand, your warranty is null and void, thank you for purchasing your extended warranty and have a nice day"

I should have not spent the $ on that, and just sent it to Nikon. They have a one week deal whereas someone will contact you on the cost of the repairs, at no charge minus the shipping.

Will take Mikesphotos advice on my next camera ...."just shoot the crap out of it and you will know within the year if you have a problem"

BTW---was in the camera store today and a guy next to me had a 20D that he dropped into a swimming pool, and it still works! He just had it cleaned!

Mike