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View Full Version : ISP April 14th SCPD and their Gestapo tactics.



NIKV69
04-20-2005, 10:53 PM
I have been asked by Phil to post my encounter with SCPD on the afternoon of 4/14. I was shooting in the Washington Mutual Bank parking lot from approx 4pm to 5:30pm or so when a cruiser pulled up. I am going to post my original thread from airliners.net. It is pretty much self-explanatory. There may be a little confusion as to the sentence about my car being searched. SCPD never entered my car. I meant that they got back in one of their cruisers after one of them inspected my car from the outside. One of the things that you really have to pay notice to is how these police behaved. Not very professional at all. I loved the threats at the end of my tint. A typical Gestapo tactic. I should have told her to write me the ticket but I didn't stoop to her level.

Here it is.

Yet again!

I got off early today and noticed the sky was absolutely beautiful and clear and decided to head to ISP for a quick spotting session. I decided on the Washington Mutual Bank parking lot on the corner of Lakeland and Vet's Highway. Got there about 3:30 and spent two hours spotting and getting pics. Then not surprisingly a SCPD cruiser comes right up to me. A male and female Officer come up to me and start giving me the ol' "After 9/11 what you are doing is illegal" Where I reply that they are mistaken. She gets real mad and they start right in with the Gestapo tactics. Who are you, why do you do this blah blah blah! I then decide it's time to drop my cousins name who is a Captain with the SCPD. The male Officer who was obviously the senior training Officer tells me he knows him and all of a sudden their tones change. The girl is still pissed that I called her bull**** and asks for my ID. I give it to her and then I start talking to the other Officer again who turns out to be a pilot with 60 hours on fixed wing he also says he has heard of this site. Then another cruiser pulls up with another guy who has a really bad attitude and asks me for all this info including my SS#, which I tell him he is not getting. He looks at me but I stand my ground and tell him I don't give that out because their is no need to since I am not a criminal and what I am doing is not illegal, he backs down and then goes over to my car which he inspects and then gets in the car with the girl who is doing God knows what. I then get asked for my occupation and work address and #, which I give. Then the cool guy says I am right that what I am doing is not illegal but that the TSA "Frowns upon such things" Well hell a lot of people "Frown upon" a lot of things. Doesn't make them wrong or illegal. Then he gets in the car and the girl comes out and gives me my ID and asks me why my car doesn't have a front license plate. I make up this story that a car nosed into a parking spot and broke the bracket and I am waiting for the part from the dealer. She buys it and then tells me the other Officer noticed my tint is too dark (Like I care) More Gestapo tactics. (Threats) Since the sun was getting low and I had snapped about 125 pics and saw a good amount of planes for a last minute spotting trip I decided not to press the issue and got in my car and left.

I just hope my fellow spotters and photographers continue to stand up to this. I am getting tired of this treatment but I love to take pictures and I love planes so I am not going to stop going there or any other airport.

Keep up the fight!

If you would like to view the whole thread here is the link.

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/av ... in/176333/ (http://www.airliners.net/discussions/aviation_photography/read.main/176333/)

Vodkagirlkris
04-21-2005, 06:23 AM
They'll just look for any reason to mess with you. It's screwed up. Generally, I like cops but it's things like that that piss me off.

NIKV69
04-21-2005, 07:34 AM
It's intimidation. Plain and simple. If they want to bully you even with laws that don't exist they will try and test you. I do not like that. Treat me like a law abiding citizen until you know otherwise for a fact.

Vodkagirl,

I like that picture! WOW :D

Futterman
04-21-2005, 09:16 AM
Vodkagirl,

I like that picture! WOW :D

Agreed. Those should solve just about any problem we have with cops. 8)


Nick, you're definitely right when you say, "I love to take pictures and I love planes so I am not going to stop going there or any other airport." That's a great attitude to have, and your reaction was fine seeing as you were 100% within the law.

The catch is that, even when we get ass-faced cops, unless we're illegally detained to have property searched there's nothing anyone can do about it. You can go through the ranks with complaints, but you'll very quickly find that first boss you speak to says photography is fine and there's no problem (at least that's the case with the PANYNJ). That's where it usually ends.

But good job. I do have one suggestion that I hope you'll take into consideration:

Althoug the bank whose parking lot you spot in may not seem to have a problem with you being there, take the initiative to speak to the manager and let him know you're there and what you'll be doing. Then give the SCPD a call, speak to a higher-up, and make them aware of who you are, what you do, and the fact that the establishment you are on has granted you permission.

You may not like the fact that you should go through all that trouble just to do something you love, but it's better to talk to the cops on good terms than none at all. We're making progress, and this is the way we're doing it. We can't just be anonymous people with cameras at planes babbling on about civil liberties without some real relationship with the skeptics.


Brian

lijk604
04-22-2005, 07:59 AM
Has anyone ever gone to ISP to spot/take phots, and find a cop trolling the airport first to ask them if they have an issue with it? Maybe I'm off base here, but instead of making them (the cops) think we are trying to do something illegal, or behind their backs, maybe if we asked one first, "Hey is ok if I sit here for a while and take some photos? And if it's okay, can I have your card in case another PO gives me a hard time?" Maybe the SCPD wouldn't be so rough on us? Again, just a thought, but if we ask permission first, that still gives them that feeling of power over us civilians. Couldn't hurt right? What's the worst they say, NO? At least then you just go on your way and there are no license checks, car searches etc.

Vodkagirlkris
04-22-2005, 04:22 PM
Yeah, they keep me out of trouble with the cops.

IslipWN
04-22-2005, 09:47 PM
Has anyone ever gone to ISP to spot/take phots, and find a cop trolling the airport first to ask them if they have an issue with it? Maybe I'm off base here, but instead of making them (the cops) think we are trying to do something illegal, or behind their backs, maybe if we asked one first, "Hey is ok if I sit here for a while and take some photos? And if it's okay, can I have your card in case another PO gives me a hard time?" Maybe the SCPD wouldn't be so rough on us? Again, just a thought, but if we ask permission first, that still gives them that feeling of power over us civilians. Couldn't hurt right? What's the worst they say, NO? At least then you just go on your way and there are no license checks, car searches etc.


Thats a very good idea!

UrbanExplorer222
04-22-2005, 10:55 PM
lijk604, that is a good idea. No harm ever came from asking a question........well maybe sometimes ;) but not this time. I wish it was 2nd precinct i know about 1/2 of em :lol:

NIKV69
04-23-2005, 02:39 AM
But good job. I do have one suggestion that I hope you'll take into consideration:

Althoug the bank whose parking lot you spot in may not seem to have a problem with you being there, take the initiative to speak to the manager and let him know you're there and what you'll be doing. Then give the SCPD a call, speak to a higher-up, and make them aware of who you are, what you do, and the fact that the establishment you are on has granted you permission.


Brian

Why don't I call the SCPD, the FBI, the tower while I am at it. Maybe I can call Southwest too, hey while I'm at it call COEX too and let them know I am coming. By the time I am done it will be dark outside!

To hell with that! :roll:

As Matt Celmer said "We are doing nothing wrong" I see no need to start calling people and telling them what I am doing. I am an American and this is a free country. I am not breaking the law so I don't feel the need to start calling everybody but Grandma Moses so I can spot.

IslipWN and lijk604,

I don't like that idea, we don't need to ask permission to do something that is totally legal. AIRLINE PHOTOGRAPHY IS NOT A CRIME!

VodkagirlKris,

I can imagine! They are quite nice, you are herby invited to spot with me whenever you like! :lol:

cancidas
04-23-2005, 08:38 PM
futt... you seem not understand what i keep saying about "flying under the radar." while PAPD likes to know when there are people spotting near the airport, not every agency is as welcoming as they are.

brian, could you please for once listen to the advice other people are giving out?

Futterman
04-24-2005, 03:53 PM
Why don't I call the SCPD, the FBI, the tower while I am at it. Maybe I can call Southwest too, hey while I'm at it call COEX too and let them know I am coming. By the time I am done it will be dark outside!

To hell with that! :roll:

As Matt Celmer said "We are doing nothing wrong" I see no need to start calling people and telling them what I am doing. I am an American and this is a free country. I am not breaking the law so I don't feel the need to start calling everybody but Grandma Moses so I can spot.

I don't want to start anything here, but I seriously disagree with your mentality. Just because we're doing something that is not in violation of established laws does not mean we don't have have a responsibility--a responsibility you are completely disregarding.

We're the only ones that can secure this hobby (and even have a desire to do so). You're right when you say that airline photography is not a crime, but apparently some cops don't know that. Just waiting until officers come up to you with an attitude is not the way to fix this. You have to take the initiative, you have to take the first step in either being cooperative or not being there at all. We all have to. Especially in a touchy situation like this.

While calling the SCPD beforehand may not yeild the same results as it would with the PAPD, there is still action to be taken with other forms of local government. Correspondance with important figures is one of the best chances we have at a beneficial reaction in any way, shape, or form. You can ask Phil to do that on behalf of NYCAviation, but he'll need your support.

I do respect what you have to say, so please reciprocate. No hard feelings.



futt... you seem not understand what i keep saying about "flying under the radar." while PAPD likes to know when there are people spotting near the airport, not every agency is as welcoming as they are.

brian, could you please for once listen to the advice other people are giving out?

Nothing I've ever heard has sounded more criminal than that. "Flying under the radar"? If an agency is not as welcoming as another, how can being sneaky and private help our cause?

That's EXACTLY what terrorists are doing. By us doing the complete opposite, by us communicating with authorities (SCPD included), we establish ourselves as a peaceful, anti-terrorist group of enthusiasts.


Brian

PhilDernerJr
04-24-2005, 05:07 PM
I think certain strategies work in certain places and not in others.

I think ISP has been a perfect example time and time again of how an airport should NOT act in cases of aviation enthusiasm. I think their ignorance is so bad that we msut now go over their heads to their bosses and county officials.

I think stopping in the office to check-in would result in them sending you home.

T-Bird76
04-24-2005, 08:40 PM
I think certain strategies work in certain places and not in others.

I think ISP has been a perfect example time and time again of how an airport should NOT act in cases of aviation enthusiasm. I think their ignorance is so bad that we msut now go over their heads to their bosses and county officials.

I think stopping in the office to check-in would result in them sending you home.

Phil if you know anything about Islip Town you'll know why Islip is such a pain in the a$$. The Islip Town Supervisor Pete McGowan aka the Furher is a simply a total jacka$$. He's even gone as far as breaking New York state law and dressing the ISP security guards up as Islip Town Police, even their cars say Islip Police. Islip Town has no Police force; these guys and one blonde bitch (sorry had to say it) are impersonating real Police, and he gets away with it.

On an off Topic ISP was conducting emergency drills today, I was so temped to stop and take some pics but I was running late.

PhilDernerJr
04-24-2005, 08:56 PM
Is there any way that we can complain about that to the county or state? I'm pretty sure it is illegal for a security team to claim to be a police force.

I remember the Queensborough President Helen Marshall got in toruble because she put lights on her chauffered car similar to an undercover police car. That's a serious offense.

cancidas
04-24-2005, 10:13 PM
That's EXACTLY what terrorists are doing. By us doing the complete opposite, by us communicating with authorities (SCPD included), we establish ourselves as a peaceful, anti-terrorist group of enthusiasts.


futterman... what guarantee do you have that you doing what you say will definately have the outcome you want it to have?

NIKV69
04-24-2005, 11:01 PM
Futterman,

We do not have any responsibilty here. The only responsibilty lies with the police and government to decipher who is a threat and who is not, and to do so without violating our rights. You continue calling God knows who before you go spot. I will not.

Vodkagirlkris
04-25-2005, 10:03 AM
I'll keep that in mind.

cancidas
04-25-2005, 10:06 AM
brian, DO NOT compare me to a terrorist. bottom line, you do what you want to do. i will teach my ways to those that wish to be taught.

jakbar
04-25-2005, 03:14 PM
I find myself mostly in agreement with Nick on this issue. I'll be damned if I have to call someone in advance to "pre-clear" my spotting activities, particularly somewhere like ISP where you know that they are only going to lie to you and tell you that you can't take pictures. This isn't about making relationships...we don't need to make relationships in order to engage in lawful activity. If the cops need to be educated, then let their supervisors educate them after you call in a complaint or, better yet, sue them for false arrest, etc. Trust me, all it will take is one bad incident to make its way into a local newspaper, and you'll see some officers opening their eyes to our existence. Anyways, I've got limited free time on the weekends, and I won't waste it dealing with the police bureaucracy.

The cops are not the problem, in my opinion. We all know that they can't really do anything to you simply for taking pictures. They're mostly counting on you to be too stupid or too afraid to do anything about it when they feed you the "9/11 changed everything" b.s. Stand up for yourself, and their power is gone. The real problem is the owners of the private property (i.e., the bank at ISP, Costco near JFK, etc.) that can very easily put up a sign saying "No trespassing. No parking. For bank customers only. No photography" or some other similar language. I've seen that kind of sign in other parts of the country. The cops won't come up to you to tell you that photography is illegal, but instead will tell you that you're trespassing/loitering. What can we really do about that? Whatever it is, I'm sure that calling the manager of the bank (or whatever place you're at) beforehand is NOT the way to go.

Rather (and this is where I disagree with Nick's unequivocal "we have no responsibility" statement), I think that we need to recognize that we do have a responsibility not to overextend our "privileges," so to speak. For example, do you think that the bank would be very happy if there were 10 spotters standing in their parking lot with cameras all weekend long, who leave garbage on the ground, etc.? I think what Matt said about staying under the radar is not meant to suggest that we act sneaky and covertly like "terrorists," but instead is meant that we should all recognize that our "access" to private property could go away if we abuse our current situation. Certainly, at places like Costco, it's a little easier to get away with having a big crowd of people since the parking lot is enormous and there are always fishermen, etc. hanging around. But at a bank...which I assume has a much smaller parking lot than Costco, I'd be a little more careful. The same goes for places like the cargo area at JFK...if people are constantly running out into the field near the 13L landing lights, it won't be long before there's a "no photography" sign.

All that being said, this is just a hobby. Let's just have fun and stop with the personal attacks and militant attitudes. Most people just want to have a good time and hang out with nice people. I think it's a turn-off for people who are new to this hobby to come to nycaviation, a.net or any other website and see this nonsense. I'm not saying we should shut up about this, but I do think we need to be a little more positive-minded instead of being so anti-police, anti-government, anti-Futterman....

Josh

NIKV69
04-25-2005, 08:16 PM
I'll keep that in mind.

Good! :D Email me anytime. [email protected] We can talk further.

Matt,

Relax, it's not worth getting your blood in a boil.

As for everyone else, let me put it in a way you may understand. There are these devices called "Cameras" You use them to take pictures of things. Some people take pictures of birds, other wildlife, family functions, vacations. Some people even take pictures of trains, cars and naked women! Some people even take pictures of commercial airplanes! No! :shock: You don't say! These actions are a "HOBBY" People actually dervive pleasure in doing these things. There is nothing illegal about this and I really don't care that some people feel that after 9/11 our pratice warrants any different behavior than a person who sits in a field and photographs birds all day. Until GWB signs a piece of paper saying what we do is illegal I will continue to do it, do it responsibly without so much as picking up a phone or feeling I have a responsibility to anythng and won't stop till they pry my camera from my cold dead hand!

IslipWN
04-26-2005, 10:38 PM
As for everyone else, let me put it in a way you may understand. There are these devices called "Cameras" You use them to take pictures of things. Some people take pictures of birds, other wildlife, family functions, vacations. Some people even take pictures of trains, cars and naked women! Some people even take pictures of commercial airplanes! No! :shock: You don't say! These actions are a "HOBBY" People actually dervive pleasure in doing these things. There is nothing illegal about this and I really don't care that some people feel that after 9/11 our pratice warrants any different behavior than a person who sits in a field and photographs birds all day. Until GWB signs a piece of paper saying what we do is illegal I will continue to do it, do it responsibly without so much as picking up a phone or feeling I have a responsibility to anythng and won't stop till they pry my camera from my cold dead hand!

if this forum had the weightlifter smiley, id be posting that right now! :D

jakbar
04-26-2005, 10:47 PM
Some people even take pictures of . . . naked women! These actions are a "HOBBY"

I just decided...I'm giving up aviation photography in favor of this hobby.

IslipWN
04-26-2005, 10:54 PM
lol

NIKV69
04-27-2005, 06:44 AM
I know Joe, I love that weighlifter smiley! I wish Phil would get it here!

mikephotos
04-27-2005, 11:42 AM
You guys mean this one?

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/graphics/smilies/weightlifter.gif

or here's another:

http://www.hepcnet.net/bbssmilies/weights.gif

Mike

NIKV69
04-27-2005, 12:03 PM
The first one! That is my official symbol of our fight to spot without harassment! How do we use it?

mikephotos
04-27-2005, 12:13 PM
I don't know if a.net will like it but you would do this:

(img)http://www.airliners.net/discussions/graphics/smilies/weightlifter.gif(/img)

You would replace the above ( and ) with [ and ] to get: http://www.airliners.net/discussions/graphics/smilies/weightlifter.gif

Or, (img)http://www.mikephotos.net/gonik.gif(/img)

Again, replace the ( and ) with [ and ] to get: http://www.mikephotos.net/gonik.gif hahahahaha

Mike

NIKV69
04-27-2005, 12:46 PM
I love it! I may email Johan and ask him or maybe it would be better if Phil emailed him and asked his permission. I think that smiley is classic and should be a symbol of us spotters.

PhilDernerJr
04-27-2005, 01:25 PM
Remind me later. I'll save it and host it here and give you a link.

Johan doesn't own the rights to the emoties, so I can yank it.

NIKV69
04-27-2005, 04:43 PM
That would be great Phil. If you could yank a few of them I can give you a list. Some of them are so good!

Matt Molnar
04-27-2005, 05:57 PM
Is there any way that we can complain about that to the county or state? I'm pretty sure it is illegal for a security team to claim to be a police force.

That is indeed illegal. The NY State Department of State regulates and licenses private security guard firms and the guards themselves. There are strict rules regarding what their uniforms say, what the signs on their cars say, the appearance of the patches on their uniforms, etc. Basically everything HAS to say SECURITY and only SECURITY. Any uniform or vehicle labeled something else, especially POLICE, is 100% illegal.

Complain to the NY State Dept of State
http://www.dos.state.ny.us
Here's the official complaint form:
http://www.dos.state.ny.us/lcns/pdfs/1507.pdf

They've hidden all their real contact info, but here it is...
Hauppauge office: (631) 952-6583, Hauppauge State Office Building, 250 Veterans Memorial Highway, Hauppauge, NY 11788
NY City office: (212) 417-5790, 123 William St, 19th Floor, NY, NY 10038
Albany office: (518) 474-4429, 84 Holland Ave, Albany, NY 12208

Please note that your complaint has a high chance of being tossed. My dad is retired Dept of State investigator, and his contacts there now say as Pataki is fighting for his political life (the Dept is headed by the Secretary of State, which of course is the #3 position in the state hierarchy) every move they make is politicized. Hence, chances are if they wanted to straighten out this Islip situation, it would have been done already. It's to the point that where normally if they received a complaint that was outside of their jurisdiction they would refer the complainant to the AG's office, but since Spitzer will be running for Gov against Pataki, they are now instructed to basically tell the caller to get lost to keep Spitzer from getting any extra positive exposure.

And that's today's insight on how our wonderful state government is working to protect YOUR interests. :)

T-Bird76
04-27-2005, 09:30 PM
I wouldn't waste my time or energy trying to report Islip Town for breaking NYS law regarding the "Islip Police". First off if I did it McGowan would send his goon squad to harass the hell out of me. I'm sure a code enforcement officer would make his way to my house. He's known to pull tactics like that.

emshighway
09-08-2006, 08:40 PM
The Chief of the Airport Police is Greg DiCanio and the Sergeant of SCPD Airport Operations is Rob Geisert. They are both nice guys and would appreciate knowing you are around. This way when they get a call of a suspicious person/vehicle their officers are aware you are around and you probably get a better meeting. Think of a notification as professional courtesy.

As far as TSA frowning on photos lets say they are concerned. Not for the photo/aviation enthusiast but those who may be using a camera for a nefarious reason. There has been proof of surveillance being used during the planning of terrorist acts.

emshighway
09-08-2006, 08:48 PM
I I
[quote="Phil D.":91074]I think certain strategies work in certain places and not in others.

I think ISP has been a perfect example time and time again of how an airport should NOT act in cases of aviation enthusiasm. I think their ignorance is so bad that we msut now go over their heads to their bosses and county officials.

I think stopping in the office to check-in would result in them sending you home.

Phil if you know anything about Islip Town you'll know why Islip is such a pain in the a$$. The Islip Town Supervisor Pete McGowan aka the Furher is a simply a total jacka$$. He's even gone as far as breaking New York state law and dressing the ISP security guards up as Islip Town Police, even their cars say Islip Police. Islip Town has no Police force; these guys and one blonde bitch (sorry had to say it) are impersonating real Police, and he gets away with it.

On an off Topic ISP was conducting emergency drills today, I was so temped to stop and take some pics but I was running late.[/quote:91074]

Well you don't have to worry about McGowan. The LIMA PD have been upgraded to Peace Offiers and if you looked lately at the patches and cars it says law enforcement instead of police now.

Mellyrose
09-08-2006, 08:50 PM
Point taken, but there was also proof that flight school was used during the planning of the terrorist attacks and that isn't illegal...people aren't questioned or detained if they want to learn to fly.

We make ourselves VERY visible, literally and figuratively....we shouldn't been viewed as a threat.

NIKV69
09-08-2006, 09:10 PM
Wow talk about a thread from the past!

I loved Josh's response to photographing naked women. Def a change from planes! If I had to choose a nice set of hooters over a 747 I would take the hooters!

Mel raises a good point. It was funny how a guy can walk into a flight school and ask to learn to fly, and then tell the FI that he doesn't need to learn how to land, how that doesn't that arouse suspicion.

I was actually at ISP couple of weeks ago to grab a few shots, same exact spot in the bank lot. A gentleman was there with his van and his two young daughters right next to me. No camera, no pilot radio. Just himself and his two young girls watching the 737s go by. It was actually awesome to see that. Needless to say I was there a good 90 mins and no cops came, nobody asked what I was doing With a camera and nobody asked the guy next to me why he and his girls were having a good time watching the traffic. It was so nice. If only it was always like that.

emshighway
09-08-2006, 09:11 PM
Point taken, but there was also proof that flight school was used during the planning of the terrorist attacks and that isn't illegal...people aren't questioned or detained if they want to learn to fly.

We make ourselves VERY visible, literally and figuratively....we shouldn't been viewed as a threat.

Don't be so sure about flight schools. The persons taking lessons need to meet TSA and FAA regulations. TSA Inspectors are going out to flight schools and looking at their books.

By the way I am on your side.

lijk604
09-08-2006, 09:36 PM
Just a follow up...our company has 30 pilots. Right now, 2 of them do not hold US passports, one is from Finland, the other from Denmark. Those two go through HELL now everytime their recurrent training comes up. They have been employed with us for 3, consecutive, non-broken up years, and yet, because they are not a US Citizen, the TSA runs a background check on them EVERY 6 months (for their recurrent training.) Twice now they have missed a day of class thanks to the TSA dragging their feet.

emshighway
09-08-2006, 09:45 PM
Just a follow up...our company has 30 pilots. Right now, 2 of them do not hold US passports, one is from Finland, the other from Denmark. Those two go through HELL now everytime their recurrent training comes up. They have been employed with us for 3, consecutive, non-broken up years, and yet, because they are not a US Citizen, the TSA runs a background check on them EVERY 6 months (for their recurrent training.) Twice now they have missed a day of class thanks to the TSA dragging their feet.

It's the government, what do you expect :roll:

DHS outsources the backgrounds so there are many hands it goes through. Background checks are backlogged often.

emshighway
09-12-2006, 09:26 PM
Spoke with the Sergeant of the SCPD Airport Operations today. He is aware of the story and this site. He advised me they have adjusted the way they approach these situations. He agreed that spotting isn't illegal as long as the spotters aren't trespassing.

They may still check you out and take your name but you should have a better experience.

N790SW
01-05-2007, 06:29 PM
I myself have spotted at ISP - that was on 8-09-04 - and the cop was a real d**k. " CANT YOU READ THE SIGN NO TRESSPASSING- GOODBYE!!". I guess we should all go to dunking doughnuts before visiting ISP ehh =P

PhilDernerJr
01-05-2007, 06:31 PM
I myself have spotted at ISP - that was on 8-09-04 - and the cop was a real d**k. " CANT YOU READ THE SIGN NO TRESSPASSING- GOODBYE!!". I guess we should all go to dunking doughnuts before visiting ISP ehh =P

Your comments and attitude towards police and tresspassing laws are a wonderful contribution to the aviaiton enthusiast community. We all thank you.

NIKV69
01-05-2007, 11:22 PM
Where were you Bobby? If you were on public property why would he say that too you?

USAF Pilot 07
01-06-2007, 03:15 AM
I myself have spotted at ISP - that was on 8-09-04 - and the cop was a real d**k. " CANT YOU READ THE SIGN NO TRESSPASSING- GOODBYE!!". I guess we should all go to dunking doughnuts before visiting ISP ehh =P

Your comments and attitude towards police and tresspassing laws are a wonderful contribution to the aviaiton enthusiast community. We all thank you.

Phil, I think he's just frustrated in the way law enforcement treats people who are doing nothing wrong. But you do bring up a good point...

While I understand your (N790SW) frustration, we need to all remember that our actions reflect on our hobby and on fellow spotters. Comments made that insult or attack a law enforcement official, who probably does have good intentions at heart, won't be received well, and will just lead to futher disputes and complications for all spotters, will which ultimately widen the rift between spotters and law enforcement officials.

Granted, I don't spot a lot, and I've never really been harrassed by the police, so I don't have the "experience" notched in my belt. But, I do think that it is important that we maintain our composure when dealing with law enforcement and try to rationalize with them and be positive examples of how harmless our hobby is. While we may not win each individual battle, if spotters kept displaying a positive attitude towards law enforcement, even if it means packing up for the day, I think word would get around soon enough that we're harmless and just looking to enjoy our hobby. Personally, I believe that it's when we are aggressive and vengeful towards law enforcement that we receive a bad name, which encourages the police to crack down on us and harrass us as much as they legally can...

PhilDernerJr
01-06-2007, 04:43 AM
Well, I don't know exactly where he was, but if he really was tresspassing, then he was doing something wrong.

Tom_Turner
01-06-2007, 09:51 AM
I myself have spotted at ISP - that was on 8-09-04 - and the cop was a real d**k. " CANT YOU READ THE SIGN NO TRESSPASSING- GOODBYE!!". I guess we should all go to dunking doughnuts before visiting ISP ehh =P

Hi N790SW... Yes, for the sake of the hobby at least, and probably just in general.. the police are the ones we'll be calling (probably) in certain emergencies, so its not only best to give them some respect here for practical reasons, but they also deserve better than blanket insults here, just on principle alone.

Lets remember its not (usually) a glamorous job, and in some localities it pays poorly for the work etc..

I agree with you though, that if it was at all possible you or someone else *might* have "missed" the sign, or you had not been told previously etc, its a ****ty way to approach you. The NYPD have that slogan now.. Courtesy, Professionalism, Respect. Its there for a reason and all law enforcement should follow that (whenever reasonably possible).

Tom

emshighway
01-06-2007, 10:22 AM
You guy do understand the incident he refers to happen 2 1/2 years ago? The SCPD Airport Operations CO is now aware of spotting and has advised his officers.

T-Bird76
01-06-2007, 10:26 AM
I myself have spotted at ISP - that was on 8-09-04 - and the cop was a real d**k. " CANT YOU READ THE SIGN NO TRESSPASSING- GOODBYE!!". I guess we should all go to dunking doughnuts before visiting ISP ehh =P

Hi N790SW... Yes, for the sake of the hobby at least, and probably just in general.. the police are the ones we'll be calling (probably) in certain emergencies, so its not only best to give them some respect here for practical reasons, but they also deserve better than blanket insults here, just on principle alone.

Lets remember its not (usually) a glamorous job, and in some localities it pays poorly for the work etc..

I agree with you though, that if it was at all possible you or someone else *might* have "missed" the sign, or you had not been told previously etc, its a ****ty way to approach you. The NYPD have that slogan now.. Courtesy, Professionalism, Respect. Its there for a reason and all law enforcement should follow that (whenever reasonably possible).

Tom

Tom in many cases your right but SCPD are the highest paid in the nation and have a very cushy job. IMO these folks should take a pay cut, there is no reason an SCPD officer needs to be making over 100 grand a year. The job isn't nearly as risky as NYC and they don't even have to have a four year degree (which is problem IMO).

The sign Bobby is talking about is more then likely the general no trespassing sign hung on the perimeter fence around the airport. Unlike LGA and JFK which are owned by Port, ISP is owned directly by the town and is totally public property outside the fence. This sounds like a classic example of cop seeing a teenager and acting out of line because he thinks he can talk to Bobby that way.

Tom_Turner
01-06-2007, 01:20 PM
You guy do understand the incident he refers to happen 2 1/2 years ago? The SCPD Airport Operations CO is now aware of spotting and has advised his officers.

I understand EMS..and thank you for your efforts on our behalf.. much appreciated. I only posted in response to Bobby because he had posted only a day or so ago. :)

Tom

Tom_Turner
01-06-2007, 01:27 PM
.. SCPD are the highest paid in the nation and have a very cushy job. IMO these folks should take a pay cut, there is no reason an SCPD officer needs to be making over 100 grand a year.

NO JUSTICE, NO PEACE... :)


just kidding.. Point taken Tommy.

Hopefully, like EMS says, things are better for everyone now. :)

hiss srq
01-06-2007, 05:39 PM
I agree with you Tommy... There is no reason they need to make that kind of loot..... I told buddies of mine who were officers down in Florida about SCPD and they said that was sickening..... No rreason but hey they enjoy it. If they can sucker the county into that kind of pay than more power to them I guess .

FlyingColors
03-12-2007, 01:17 PM
I agree with you Tommy... There is no reason they need to make that kind of loot..... I told buddies of mine who were officers down in Florida about SCPD and they said that was sickening..... No rreason but hey they enjoy it. If they can sucker the county into that kind of pay than more power to them I guess .

You guys have it all wrong.
Getting clunked over the head with a DSLR is very dangerous. Its a serious life and death situation that comes with the job. Furthermore camera gear is often manufactured with toxic chemicals, increasing the chance of a shortened life.