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Thread: KEWR 11/23/14

  1. #61
    Administrator PhilDernerJr's Avatar
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    Nick, you're saying that you think that post should be removed? If no one else is condoning the situation, and others are actually saying it shouldn't be used, what rule would the person be violating to warrant its removal? I don't see the issue.

    Also, instead of having looked at it, been of that view and later complaining "where's the leadership" you are welcome to have reported the post with a suggestion of action or rule for action in such a situation.
    Email me anytime at [email protected].

  2. #62
    Senior Member NIKV69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil D. View Post
    Nick, you're saying that you think that post should be removed? If no one else is condoning the situation, and others are actually saying it shouldn't be used, what rule would the person be violating to warrant its removal? I don't see the issue.

    Also, instead of having looked at it, been of that view and later complaining "where's the leadership" you are welcome to have reported the post with a suggestion of action or rule for action in such a situation.
    I think discussing a very high security, delicate, private property spot at an airfield already tough to shoot at in a public forum irresponsible. I am sure I am not alone in this sentiment. It's not a question of whether the post breaks a rule or doesn't break a rule. I thought we are trying to make EWR a little more spotter friendly.

    This post goes counter to that. Being the owner of a site that local spotters congregate and where out of towners look for info I would think you would want discussion of spots that are not open to the public kept private, which is just common sense.

    Leave the post. It doesn't matter to me. I spot at EWR with no problem when I go. As the de facto site of the area spotters I just expected some better judgement from the person who runs it.
    'My idea of a good picture is one that's in focus and of a famous person doing something unfamous.' Andy Warhol

  3. #63
    Administrator PhilDernerJr's Avatar
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    Well I'm flattered you expect so much of me, but keep in mind that this is a community and I truly NEED everyone's help to make things the way that others desire. I am not all knowing and not all seeing.

    With two people having suggested it, I have removed the address portion of the posts that mentioned it. When I first read it, it didn't seem to be a big deal because I couldn't imagine anyone seeing that on the 4th page of this discussion without reading others saying that wasn't a good idea on ALL the pages, and then doing it anyway.

    But again, I need people's input, preferably something that shows us working together as opposed to taking the easy way out and saying I am doing a ****ty job as if I am falling short of what I'm paid to do or was voted into office for.
    Email me anytime at [email protected].

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil D. View Post
    I agree with an earlier poster that the word "dangerous" is misleading.

    Personally, I have no intention of adding ANOTHER location for EWR, with the experiences mentioned in this thread. I was even considering removing the EWR location and replacing it with text that suggests that people don't do it, or that there aren't any public locations that offer low risk of removal by authorities.
    Ok, that is true. That's actually not too bad of an idea.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonzalu View Post
    As the wise old Yoda once said: "Don't think, Do!"

    Why don't [you] start an airport watch program? If you sit around waiting for someone to do it, you may have to wait all your life. Maybe you can help the community to get it done!

    The program in Florida (MIA) was the result of hard work by the local spotter community there together with a responsive management team at the airport. While we have a very solid and willing community here, the other party has't been so cooperative unfortunately.
    I send emails to PANYNJ about the cops, but I recently mentioned the airport watch program. Let's see what they'll respond with soon...

  6. #66
    Senior Member Gerard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CathayA340 View Post
    I send emails to PANYNJ about the cops, but I recently mentioned the airport watch program. Let's see what they'll respond with soon...
    Yes that should be interesting!!

  7. #67
    Senior Member skyteam18's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NIKV69 View Post
    How in the name of God do I know? I don't work for for Port Authority. It's always been a high security spot and contrary to your assumptions, not caused by spotters behaving a certain way. If you have nothing to do for 2 hours google it and you will see for the last 12 years spotters around the world have had issues there, no matter how they behaved. So before you keep insulting us with your conspiracy theories, research these things before you type your statements.

    And an apology wouldn't be a bad idea since you basically insulted a lot of guys who have been shooting planes for a long time there.
    I apologize for calling a big group of members here "spineless." I have never shot at EWR (except for the occasional cellphone snap from the terminal/inside an aircraft.) I do not have first hand experience plane spotting outside the fence at EWR and therefore do speak from ignorance on the matter.

    I would like to thank a member on this site who graciously filled me in quite extensively about the recent spotting culture found at EWR. What I gathered is EWR offers no PUBLIC areas where spotters can pursue their hobby. All publicly known spotting areas around EWR are publicly-accessible but are on Private Property: IKEA, PANYNJ Property, etc. This presents a Catch-22 for hobbyists who wish to shoot from these public areas.

    The rights of the hobbyists do NOT exist on these publicly accessible private properties. Newark's Airport Manager has stated to the public that it is in the duties of The Port Authority at Newark Liberty to discourage aviation enthusiast activities and reserves the right to stop hobbyist activities from taking place on their property.

    As for IKEA: What language does the IKEA manager(s) use remove Aviation Enthusiasts? Loitering? Tresspassing? or No Plane Spotting?

    The local police outside and around EWR is a whole other topic I won't touch today.

    While many of us will simply turn a blind eye to the state of affairs in Newark (mainly because Newark is so second rate to JFK, not to mention it's all the way over there in Jersey), we can't forget that Newark stands in stark contrast to the type of airportenvironment we frequently enjoy. If the bottom issue at EWR is the PANYNJ's dislike for aviation enthusiaststs, the spotting community should be offering up a resistance to this mentality. Otherwise we leave a SHINING EXAMPLE of an airport that HATES SPOTTERS. The threat is then very real this mentality against hobbyists can spread out to other airports (BDL) around the country following EWR's example.

    It'll be a sad day when the airport manager at EWR becomes best buds with the "New Airport Manager" at JFK (or INSERT YOUR HOMETOWN AIRPORT HERE), should that day come.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerard View Post
    Yes that should be interesting!!
    Do you think it would be any good to start a petition online for creating some program?
    PANY needs proof...

  9. #69
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    Let me know what you think and what should be edited. http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/nyc-airport-watch

  10. #70
    Senior Member NIKV69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CathayA340 View Post
    Do you think it would be any good to start a petition online for creating some program?
    PANY needs proof...
    No, PANYNJ doesn't feel civilians should help them do their job. Using a confrontational tactic won't help.
    'My idea of a good picture is one that's in focus and of a famous person doing something unfamous.' Andy Warhol

  11. #71
    Senior Member skyteam18's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CathayA340 View Post
    Let me know what you think and what should be edited. http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/nyc-airport-watch
    I'm not trying to rain on your parade but I think you're asking a bit too much. The outcome we're wanting is to be left alone so we can enjoy our hobby without bothersome interruptions. Suggesting a Watch Program only masquerades the real reason we want to be at the airport. -- Yes, providing an extra set of eyes that will be watching for suspicious activity/unsafe operations is a benefit to having an active spotting community. But it's not the reason we go to shoot.

    This is a battle of changing the mentality of the authorities. The benefits of an active spotting community (IMO) far outweigh the disadvantages. -- The only disadvantages that come to mind (assuming we are within our legal rights > not trespassing, etc) are "causing concern in the public eye" which is total bullsh*t because that is a problem of perception and the public should be the ones educated on the matter, not the spotters.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyteam18 View Post
    I'm not trying to rain on your parade but I think you're asking a bit too much. The outcome we're wanting is to be left alone so we can enjoy our hobby without bothersome interruptions. Suggesting a Watch Program only masquerades the real reason we want to be at the airport. -- Yes, providing an extra set of eyes that will be watching for suspicious activity/unsafe operations is a benefit to having an active spotting community. But it's not the reason we go to shoot.

    This is a battle of changing the mentality of the authorities. The benefits of an active spotting community (IMO) far outweigh the disadvantages. -- The only disadvantages that come to mind (assuming we are within our legal rights > not trespassing, etc) are "causing concern in the public eye" which is total bullsh*t because that is a problem of perception and the public should be the ones educated on the matter, not the spotters.
    Ok, thanks. I'll take it down.

  13. #73
    Senior Member megatop412's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyteam18 View Post
    Newark is so second rate to JFK, not to mention it's all the way over there in Jersey
    Dude, EWR rules. When was the last time JFK saw a Tu-204???

    Again a thread about EWR inflames tensions. We are a community of plane spotters here. Yes EWR needs to be handled with care but I disagree it should be avoided. Just use common sense out there and don't be an ass when the police do show up. Be professional and courteous, and represent our hobby with grace and pride. All EWR area cops get free 8x10's from me to have tangible 'evidence' they can investigate. I have yet to give any away, however, because I use my head out there.

  14. #74
    Senior Member Delta777LR's Avatar
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    Wow just seeing this is stunning. I was talking to a few guys about this incident recently and when I heard about this, I go back to the time some of us had their SD cards confiscated in 2010 at EWR. Normally I don't waste my time at EWR unless something rare would show but yes I have been kicked out at Ikea as well back in 2003 but I had found a nice spot in Newark that is off airport and I was able to shoot there without any problems and lasted at least 2 hours there. It's about playing smart. EWR has always been an issue for along time. And not to mention that we cannot tell anyone not to spot at EWR or where ever. The same kind of incident can happen else where like LGA even. It all depends who u deal with. I remembered back in 2009 that I actually got detained at Planeview park by PAPD and they have gave me a hard time. CathayA340 thinking of giving up your hobby is not the answer but it's your choice but you have been told about this many times about how EWR is. Many of us have spotted at EWR for years and know what how it goes. That's why you should take our advices more. Don't take it the wrong way, I'm not offending anyone but sometimes it's a way of learning.
    Sergio has been a huge Delta Air Lines fan since 1992!!

    Sergio Cardona

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  15. #75
    Senior Member Zee71's Avatar
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    Well stated Sergio!
    Mark
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